Datacolor User to User Support Group.

I've owned the Printfix Pro Suite (currently updated to Spyder3print v3.5) for several years and created a number of profiles with it for my Epson 2200 and 2400 and all of the profiles have showed strange uneven areas when you view a soft proof of the Granger Rainbow. Epson profiles on the other hand look very smooth.
I just bought an Epson 3800 and decided to give it a go and profile an Innova paper smooth cotton natural white. The profile I got looked like every other profile I've done on the Granger Rainbow:

http://www.ullinish.com/images/GrangerRainbow.jpg

with the strange inconsistences in the cyan area. In practice the profile works very well with out of camera images but if you push the saturation of blue skies it creates weird posterization effects.

Does anyone know why I am getting these artifacts? I have measured most carefully over many many attempts although I have never attempted to average measurement sets.

Oh, one other suggestion would be to try the 729 patch target, to  
increase your sampling frequency.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...



Datacolor
www.datacolor.com/Spyder3

On Oct 13, 2009, at 9:22 AM, C D Tobie wrote:

>
> On Oct 13, 2009, at 6:59 AM, xrdbear wrote:
>
>> I've owned the Printfix Pro Suite (currently updated to  
>> Spyder3print v3.5) for several years and created a number of  
>> profiles with it for my Epson 2200 and 2400 and all of the profiles  
>> have showed strange uneven areas when you view a soft proof of the  
>> Granger Rainbow. Epson profiles on the other hand look very smooth.
>> I just bought an Epson 3800 and decided to give it a go and profile  
>> an Innova paper smooth cotton natural white. The profile I got  
>> looked like every other profile I've done on the Granger Rainbow:
>
>
> Yes, our profiles are opitimized for photographic color, not for  
> synthetic color. How they react with out of gamut synthetic colors  
> might matter to people who create vector art, but not typically to  
> photographers.
>>
>> http://www.ullinish.com/images/GrangerRainbow.jpg
>>
>> with the strange inconsistences in the cyan area. In practice the  
>> profile works very well with out of camera images but if you push  
>> the saturation of blue skies it creates weird posterization effects.
>
> If your skies are pushed to the point that you hit the out of gamut  
> cyan range, you may want to reconsider your saturation increases.  
> The other option is to change your rendering intent. I suspect you  
> are using Perceptual or Relative Colorimetric, and will find the  
> situation is improved (and also that your skies require far less  
> saturation increase) using Saturation intent.
>>
>> Does anyone know why I am getting these artifacts? I have measured  
>> most carefully over many many attempts although I have never  
>> attempted to average measurement sets.
>
> Its not anything you are doing in building the profile, its likely  
> to be a combination of your expectations, your techniques, and your  
> rendering intent.
>
> C. David Tobie
> Global Product Technology Manager
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> CDTobie@...
>
> <image003.gif>
>
> Datacolor
> www.datacolor.com/Spyder3
>
>
>
> =

Thanks for the reply David. In actual fact I don't normally push my skies to that extent. I tried the experiment to see if these oddities could be made visible.
I tried an experiment and took samples of colour from what I considered to be the most saturated sky I would accept and placed dots of these colours on layers above the Granger image I posted. I then moved them around until they disappeared against the rainbow to see where those colours resided. In all cases they were well outside the problem areas. I therefore agree with you that as far as photography is concerned the anomalies are meaningless.
Certainly the Spyderprint profile is a huge improvement on the Innova supplied profile with open, unblocked, neutral shadows. The Innova profile had a greenish cast going into the shadow areas.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>
> Oh, one other suggestion would be to try the 729 patch target, to  
> increase your sampling frequency.

I used the 225 + greyscale charts so I may give the 729 a try but it looks as though it may not be worth the effort.
Incidentally I chose to use the Ultrasmooth Fine Art media setting in driver as recommended by Northlight Images. When I initially tried the Velvet Fine Art setting recommended by Innova it was obvious it was laying too much ink on the paper and produced a dark muddy print.

Thanks again.
Brian

I have been working with Spyder3Print SR, using then new strip reading  
mode, and the new EZ targets. I find that I can read a letter/A4  
target page in less than a minute, with full accuracy. That makes  
building standard profiles an absolute breeze. We are adding EZ  
versions of the 729 patch, and 729 plus Grays targets, so that there  
will be a full set of the EZ targets. Its interesting to see that this  
is really quite convenient for building high patch profiles. 729  
patches takes 7 sheets, 729 plus Grays takes 9 sheets, so printing on  
an inkjet can be slow. But I can read the full nine sheets in ten or  
eleven minutes, without getting frazzled the way that long sessions of  
patch reading with a patch-at-a-time reader makes me. So thats very  
encouraging.

We will be demonstrating Spyder3Print SR next week at PhotoPlus Expo  
in New York, and should have the latest software with these functions  
in it there to use. So anyone interested in this should stop by the  
booth for a peek.

We'll also have the new Spyder3Express there. I opened a final release  
version of  S3Express yesterday, and I have to admit its a very nice  
looking product. Hanging next to a Spyder3Elite on the corner of my  
monitors, it does not look like the $89 poor cousin, it really looks  
nice (its shiny black, with a matte black back and front insert, as  
opposed to Elite's dark chrome finish). And the software has an easy  
clean interface, and profiles displays nicely. If I didn't need to  
tune paired displays to match each other, profile projectors, and keep  
an eye on ambient light, I'd see no reason not to use Express for my  
display calibration.

Hope to see a few of you next week at the show. It will be interesting  
to see the response to the new products.

Oh, one last thing; Diane Berkenfeld sent me a link to a SpyderCube  
review that she has just completed, if any of you are interested, its  
at:

http://picturesoup.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/product-review-datacolor-spydercube/

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On Oct 16, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Jim Miller wrote:

> will there be any upgrades to the strip reading version from current  
> generations?

Yes, the update will add the EZ 729 and EZ 729&Grays targets for all  
users. Whether those with older patch readers will chose to use the EZ  
targets, or cheap out and save paper by using the classic targets is  
up to the individual. ;-)
>
> i've got the s3elite (i think) which had the monitor and printer  
> profiling hw in a nice aluminum case.

S3Elite plus S3Print in the metal case was called Spyder3Studio, as a  
package. The replacement is called Spyder3Studio SR, and now includes  
the StripReading spectro, and a SpyderCube, all for the same list  
price as the previous version.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On Oct 16, 2009, at 12:16 PM, C D Tobie wrote:

>> will there be any upgrades to the strip reading version from current
>> generations?

Misread that question; sorry. There isn't really such as thing as an  
"upgrade" from one hardware device to another, any more than you can  
upgrade from your last inkjet printer to the latest model. But  
Datacolor does tend to offer a few programs that might fit this bill,  
typically once initial demand has been caught up with for newly  
released products. In Europe they have usually required trading in a  
former device, or competing device. In the US they have been   
"customer loyalty specials" available to US customers via the company  
website. One or another of these types of program may well occur once  
the surge in demand has been met. No way to predict that yet...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On Oct 16, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> so will the existing s3studio do the quick strip act with a software  
> update?

No, we developed a new piece of hardware (doesn't actually even look  
like the previous device) thats capable of patch reading. The older  
spectros can benefit from some improvements in speed, but they still  
only read one patch at a time...

> if so will the sw update be free?

Yes, the software update is free; the initial release version is  
already available from our website and is recommended to all owners of  
earlier versions. But if you have a patch reading specto, it will  
still only read patches.


> or will it require new hw?

For automated stripreading, yes, the new Strip Reader is required...

> will there be a discount for hw upgrades?

See previous post. (No for now, maybe, sort of, later.)

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

On Oct 16, 2009, at 2:30 PM, Jim Miller wrote:

> actually leaning toward spending future sums on a z3200 with its  
> builtin spectro and larger printout capability.

I am finding more and more people who own an HP with the built in  
spectro purchasing our system anyways. Reasons vary. One is to be able  
to profile their other printers so that prints match what the HP  
produces. Another is that they want to tune the HP profiles, and can't  
with the internal ones.

Haven't run into this with Epson's with builtin spectros yet, for two  
reasons: the Epson spectro is optional (and virtually no one pays the  
big bucks for it, unless they also pay even more big bucks for a RIP  
that works with it), and the Epson spectro does not make profiles...  
just linearizes for Epson media. Haven't seen a single Epson "in the  
wild" with a spectro in it yet...

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

Hi David,

Any word when said update will be released? I'd like to get some  
profiles made in the near future, and looks like the EZ 729 targets  
would be an improvement (at the expense of paper, that is) over the  
previous ones, for me at least; I occasionally had alignment issues  
with the previous targets, even with the guide (which are user error  
to be sure, but still).

Thanks and best regards,
Jeff

On Oct 16, 2009, at 12:16 PM, C D Tobie wrote:
>
> Yes, the update will add the EZ 729 and EZ 729&Grays targets for all
> users. Whether those with older patch readers will chose to use the EZ
> targets, or cheap out and save paper by using the classic targets is
> up to the individual. ;-)
>

>>Any word when said update will be released?

Shortly, I expect.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:42 PM, "J. Steel" <jsteel@...> wrote:

> Any word when said update will be released?

Great, I'll be watching for it. Thanks!

Best,
Jeff

On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Cdtobie wrote:

>
> >>Any word when said update will be released?
>
> Shortly, I expect.
>
> C. D. Tobie
> Global Product Technology Mngr.
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor.com
> CDTobie@...
>
> On Nov 1, 2009, at 1:42 PM, "J. Steel" <jsteel@...> wrote:
>
>> Any word when said update will be released?
> =
>
>