Datacolor User to User Support Group.

I am running Spyder3Print on a Mac Mini under OS-X 10.6.2, Snow Leopard, but am now having problems using my S3P profiles as the system is profiling twice. I think that the problem arose after the last update of Snow Leopard. I need to make my own profiles as I am using neither Epson papers nor Epson inks in my Epson R2880.

If in Lightroom I go into Print Settings and open the Color Matching tab, the system has selected Colorsync, and the options are greyed out so that I cannot change them. I assume that in this situation two profiles are being applied, an Epson and mine, and the results are truly awful.

To reverse the situation, I have to delete the printer preferences file, and then I find that I can select Epson Color Controls, and save the settings. This together with No Color Adjustment means that my profiles work as desired. But it gets worse: within 5 minutes I find that the system has again selected Colorsync and the fields are greyed out again, so that I cannot change the selection.

Surely this is not a problem unique to my machine. Is there anyone else who has seen and cured the problem?

Any suggestions received with thanks.

Tim Mimpriss
--

This set of complex OS/application/driver issues is causing lots of  
problems for lots of people. Unless you can update to a newer driver  
(and there aren't corrected drivers for many models) then it is often  
necessary to print from Photoshop, where the profile can be converted  
to, and then sRGB assigned as the profile (a lie that keeps the system  
from converting again). Apple claims to be working on this for the  
next version of Snow Leopard, but at the moment it is a huge mess,  
with lots of finger pointing, and loss of advanced functionality for  
many advanced users.

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@...

On Feb 6, 2010, at 6:28 AM, "tmimpriss" <zen153549@...> wrote:

> Surely this is not a problem unique to my machine. Is there anyone  
> else who has seen and cured the problem?

Thank you for the information: not encouraging, but at least I know 
where I stand.

Tim Mimpriss
--

Cdtobie wrote:

> This set of complex OS/application/driver issues is causing lots of  
> problems for lots of people. Unless you can update to a newer driver  
> (and there aren't corrected drivers for many models) then it is often  
> necessary to print from Photoshop, where the profile can be converted  
> to, and then sRGB assigned as the profile (a lie that keeps the system  
> from converting again). Apple claims to be working on this for the  
> next version of Snow Leopard, but at the moment it is a huge mess,  
> with lots of finger pointing, and loss of advanced functionality for  
> many advanced users.
> 
> C. D. Tobie
> Global Product Technology Mngr.
> Digital Imaging & Home Theater
> Datacolor.com

On Feb 6, 2010, at 6:28 AM, tmimpriss wrote:

> I am running Spyder3Print on a Mac Mini under OS-X 10.6.2, Snow  
> Leopard, but am now having problems using my S3P profiles as the  
> system is profiling twice. I think that the problem arose after the  
> last update of Snow Leopard. I need to make my own profiles as I am  
> using neither Epson papers nor Epson inks in my Epson R2880.
>
> If in Lightroom I go into Print Settings and open the Color Matching  
> tab, the system has selected Colorsync, and the options are greyed  
> out so that I cannot change them. I assume that in this situation  
> two profiles are being applied, an Epson and mine, and the results  
> are truly awful.
>
> To reverse the situation, I have to delete the printer preferences  
> file, and then I find that I can select Epson Color Controls, and  
> save the settings. This together with No Color Adjustment means that  
> my profiles work as desired. But it gets worse: within 5 minutes I  
> find that the system has again selected Colorsync and the fields are  
> greyed out again, so that I cannot change the selection.
>
> Surely this is not a problem unique to my machine. Is there anyone  
> else who has seen and cured the problem?
>
>


Yes. Your problem isn't in how you're printing from Lightroom. That's  
the right (and only)
way to print - select the profile, ColorSync (in the Color Matching  
pane of the print dialog)
comes up dimmed and autoselected. Photoshop behaves the same way.  
Don't worry about that,
the "right" thing is happening underneath.

Your problem is that you've probably printed any NEW profiling target  
prints, using
Snow Leopard, incorrectly. If you've switched to Snow Leopard: printed  
targets (incorrectly)
and built profiles from the measurements taken from these incorrectly  
printed targets,
you'll end up with do-nothing profiles; and when you use these in  
Lightroom or Photoshop,
they'll "do nothing" and you'll end up with a dark, dull print that's  
essentially uncalibrated.

There's any easy solution to your problem. You need to start over,  
reprint your targets under
Snow Leopard, correctly this time, then measure and build new profiles.

This is the key: when printing the targets from Spyder3Print: you need  
to go into the Color
Matching pane of the Snow Leopard print dialog and choose "Epson Color  
Controls" there (not
ColorSync!) when you print the targets. In Spyder3Print, these radio  
buttons in the Color Matching
pane of the print dialog are selectable; they're not dimmed; and you  
HAVE to choose "Epson
Color Controls" there for the target to print correctly. AND, in  
addition, you also have
to use the "Off" setting in the 2880-specific section of the print  
dialog.

Do that: reprint a target; visually compare it to a target print  
you've previously made
under Snow Leopard; your new target print should be visibly darker. If  
so, your problem
is solved. Just remeasure the new target print, build a new profile,  
use that in Lightroom,
and you should get perfect prints.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Thank you very much for replying to my query. However, your reply 
puzzles me: my ignorance perhaps.

The method you describe for printing test sheets is the one I am 
accustomed to use. I have reprinted the sheets but see no difference 
between the latest and those I printed earlier. I shall measure them 
when cured.

I have always understood, that, apart from selecting the profile in the 
photo software, you print with the same settings as those used to print 
the target, so with the older dialogue you select "Off (No Color 
Adjustment)" rather than "Color Controls" or "Colorsync". With the newer 
dialogues, to achieve the same result, I select "Epson Color Controls" 
in the Color Matching tab, and "Off (No Color Adjustment)" in the Print 
Settings tab (just as you describe for printing the target sheets). This 
gave me the desired results with OS-X 10.5.x; but with 10.6.x, the OS 
seems to override my choice in the Color Matching tab, in a somewhat 
erratic fashion. When I CAN select "Epson Color Controls" in the Color 
Matching tab (and, of course, "Off (No Color Adjustment)" under Print 
settings, the prints come out fine.

I have always understood that the Colorsync setting allows the driver to 
select the profile linked to the media choice when you allow the printer 
to control color management; but I am open to correction.

Tim Mimpriss
--

David Miller wrote:

> On Feb 6, 2010, at 6:28 AM, tmimpriss wrote:
> 
>> I am running Spyder3Print on a Mac Mini under OS-X 10.6.2, Snow  
>> Leopard, but am now having problems using my S3P profiles as the  
>> system is profiling twice. I think that the problem arose after the  
>> last update of Snow Leopard. I need to make my own profiles as I am  
>> using neither Epson papers nor Epson inks in my Epson R2880.
>>
>> If in Lightroom I go into Print Settings and open the Color Matching  
>> tab, the system has selected Colorsync, and the options are greyed  
>> out so that I cannot change them. I assume that in this situation  
>> two profiles are being applied, an Epson and mine, and the results  
>> are truly awful.
>>
>> To reverse the situation, I have to delete the printer preferences  
>> file, and then I find that I can select Epson Color Controls, and  
>> save the settings. This together with No Color Adjustment means that  
>> my profiles work as desired. But it gets worse: within 5 minutes I  
>> find that the system has again selected Colorsync and the fields are  
>> greyed out again, so that I cannot change the selection.
>>
>> Surely this is not a problem unique to my machine. Is there anyone  
>> else who has seen and cured the problem?
>>
>>
> 
> 
> Yes. Your problem isn't in how you're printing from Lightroom. That's  
> the right (and only)
> way to print - select the profile, ColorSync (in the Color Matching  
> pane of the print dialog)
> comes up dimmed and autoselected. Photoshop behaves the same way.  
> Don't worry about that,
> the "right" thing is happening underneath.
> 
> Your problem is that you've probably printed any NEW profiling target  
> prints, using
> Snow Leopard, incorrectly. If you've switched to Snow Leopard: printed  
> targets (incorrectly)
> and built profiles from the measurements taken from these incorrectly  
> printed targets,
> you'll end up with do-nothing profiles; and when you use these in  
> Lightroom or Photoshop,
> they'll "do nothing" and you'll end up with a dark, dull print that's  
> essentially uncalibrated.
> 
> There's any easy solution to your problem. You need to start over,  
> reprint your targets under
> Snow Leopard, correctly this time, then measure and build new profiles.
> 
> This is the key: when printing the targets from Spyder3Print: you need  
> to go into the Color
> Matching pane of the Snow Leopard print dialog and choose "Epson Color  
> Controls" there (not
> ColorSync!) when you print the targets. In Spyder3Print, these radio  
> buttons in the Color Matching
> pane of the print dialog are selectable; they're not dimmed; and you  
> HAVE to choose "Epson
> Color Controls" there for the target to print correctly. AND, in  
> addition, you also have
> to use the "Off" setting in the 2880-specific section of the print  
> dialog.
> 
> Do that: reprint a target; visually compare it to a target print  
> you've previously made
> under Snow Leopard; your new target print should be visibly darker. If  
> so, your problem
> is solved. Just remeasure the new target print, build a new profile,  
> use that in Lightroom,
> and you should get perfect prints.
> 
> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

On Feb 8, 2010, at 6:54 AM, Tim Mimpriss wrote:

>  With the newer
> dialogues, to achieve the same result, I select "Epson Color Controls"
> in the Color Matching tab, and "Off (No Color Adjustment)" in the  
> Print
> Settings tab (just as you describe for printing the target sheets).  
> This
> gave me the desired results with OS-X 10.5.x; but with 10.6.x, the OS
> seems to override my choice in the Color Matching tab, in a somewhat
> erratic fashion. When I CAN select "Epson Color Controls" in the Color
> Matching tab (and, of course, "Off (No Color Adjustment)" under Print
> settings, the prints come out fine.
>
>

That won't happen if you're printing that target sheets directly from
within Spyder3Print. Both of those radio buttons are enabled and you
can choose between them; nothing overrides and forces your choice to
ColorSync.

If you're printing from Adobe applications (Photoshop and Lightroom):
yes, what you say is true, but you shouldn't be printing target sheets
from Lightroom (if you are: that's going to be the problem); and
the normal method for printing targets isn't from Photoshop, either;
I wouldn't recommend it at this point under Snow Leopard.
> I have always understood that the Colorsync setting allows the  
> driver to
> select the profile linked to the media choice when you allow the  
> printer
> to control color management; but I am open to correction.
>
>

If you're seeing what you're describing when printing targets, then
you're not printing them directly from Spyder3Print; if so, that's
the solution: print them as described, directly from Spyder3Print.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Thanks again. I always print my targets through Spyder3Print. I was 
referring to making prints once the profile has been produced. The 
Colorsync setting is what spoils the prints.

Tim Mimpriss
--

David Miller wrote:

> On Feb 8, 2010, at 6:54 AM, Tim Mimpriss wrote:
> 
>>  With the newer
>> dialogues, to achieve the same result, I select "Epson Color Controls"
>> in the Color Matching tab, and "Off (No Color Adjustment)" in the  
>> Print
>> Settings tab (just as you describe for printing the target sheets).  
>> This
>> gave me the desired results with OS-X 10.5.x; but with 10.6.x, the OS
>> seems to override my choice in the Color Matching tab, in a somewhat
>> erratic fashion. When I CAN select "Epson Color Controls" in the Color
>> Matching tab (and, of course, "Off (No Color Adjustment)" under Print
>> settings, the prints come out fine.
>>
>>
> 
> That won't happen if you're printing that target sheets directly from
> within Spyder3Print. Both of those radio buttons are enabled and you
> can choose between them; nothing overrides and forces your choice to
> ColorSync.
> 
> If you're printing from Adobe applications (Photoshop and Lightroom):
> yes, what you say is true, but you shouldn't be printing target sheets
> from Lightroom (if you are: that's going to be the problem); and
> the normal method for printing targets isn't from Photoshop, either;
> I wouldn't recommend it at this point under Snow Leopard.
>> I have always understood that the Colorsync setting allows the  
>> driver to
>> select the profile linked to the media choice when you allow the  
>> printer
>> to control color management; but I am open to correction.
>>
>>
> 
> If you're seeing what you're describing when printing targets, then
> you're not printing them directly from Spyder3Print; if so, that's
> the solution: print them as described, directly from Spyder3Print.
> 
> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>

On Feb 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Tim Mimpriss wrote:

> Thanks again. I always print my targets through Spyder3Print. I was
> referring to making prints once the profile has been produced. The
> Colorsync setting is what spoils the prints.
>
> Tim Mimpriss
> --
>
>


I know: how that "looks" is confusing.

When you're printing through profiles, in Photoshop or Lightroom:
that setting shouldn't be spoiling anything. It looks wrong, but
what happens underneath the hood should be fine. You should be
able to make good prints, with any printer profiles you're going
to use (Spyder3Print, manufacturer's profiles, etc) as long
as:

(a) You've printed the targets correctly to begin with, which
brings me back to what I was originally trying to get to the
bottom of. IF you printed targets from Spyder3Print, under
Snow Leopard, without specifically going into the Color Matching
pane in the print dialog and selecting "Epson Color Controls"
instead of ColorSync: your target prints will be wrong; the
profiles built from them will be wrong; and when you try to use
to make prints, you're going to get dark/dull/uncalibrated prints.

(b) You have Photoshop printing set up correctly.


(a) is the most likely thing to be wrong. The Color Matching
pane defaults to ColorSync (wrong!) when both choices are
enabled, so you -have- to manually go in and change it to
"Epson Color Controls" when printing targets from Spyder3Print
under Snow Leopard. Not doing this is the most common cause
of incorrect printer profiles under Snow Leopard.


David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Thank you. I think that we are actually in agreement. My only problem is 
a wee gremlin that seems to have slipped in with Snow Leopard, and that 
changes settings in the driver. At least I have now found a workaround, 
and am printing happily.

Tim Mimpriss
--

David Miller wrote:

> On Feb 8, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Tim Mimpriss wrote:
> 
>> Thanks again. I always print my targets through Spyder3Print. I was
>> referring to making prints once the profile has been produced. The
>> Colorsync setting is what spoils the prints.
>>
>> Tim Mimpriss
>> --
>>
>>
> 
> 
> I know: how that "looks" is confusing.
> 
> When you're printing through profiles, in Photoshop or Lightroom:
> that setting shouldn't be spoiling anything. It looks wrong, but
> what happens underneath the hood should be fine. You should be
> able to make good prints, with any printer profiles you're going
> to use (Spyder3Print, manufacturer's profiles, etc) as long
> as:
> 
> (a) You've printed the targets correctly to begin with, which
> brings me back to what I was originally trying to get to the
> bottom of. IF you printed targets from Spyder3Print, under
> Snow Leopard, without specifically going into the Color Matching
> pane in the print dialog and selecting "Epson Color Controls"
> instead of ColorSync: your target prints will be wrong; the
> profiles built from them will be wrong; and when you try to use
> to make prints, you're going to get dark/dull/uncalibrated prints.
> 
> (b) You have Photoshop printing set up correctly.
> 
> 
> (a) is the most likely thing to be wrong. The Color Matching
> pane defaults to ColorSync (wrong!) when both choices are
> enabled, so you -have- to manually go in and change it to
> "Epson Color Controls" when printing targets from Spyder3Print
> under Snow Leopard. Not doing this is the most common cause
> of incorrect printer profiles under Snow Leopard.
> 
> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>