Datacolor User to User Support Group.

Hi folks. It's been a while since I last successfully profiled, in 1.05X and using CS3. Now I have 10.6.4 and CS5.

So I did new profiles today and sure enough following old instructions, the targets (2 page EZ) looked good and not "dark and broody".

So I need to double triple check - in 10.6.X I have to , for printing the targets within Spyder 3 Print - 

1. Under the print dialog option - Color Matching - pick Epson Color Controls and NOT Colorsync

2. Under the Print Settings dialog and specifically the Color Settings pulldown I select Off (No Color Adjustment) and NOT Color Controls (with its options of Epson Vivid, Epson Standard and AdobeRGB)

The first time I printed the settings were:

1. Epson Color Controls
2. Epson Standard

Result being a quite nice looking target that was a range of colors and hues.

So I am changing to :

1. Epson Color Controls
2. Off (No Color Adjustment)

Which rendered a target that was quite dark in Page 1 rows 2-3-4 and ABCD 7-12 (the largest observed differences) and Page 2 all 4 quadrants especially A-E rows 7-12.

The profile from attempt #1 rendered prints very dark, very red. I am now trying to measure and create a new profile with these two setting set as mentioned.

Am I on the right track?

On Aug 21, 2010, at 3:24 PM, grandpollo wrote:

> Hi folks. It's been a while since I last successfully profiled, in 1.05X and using CS3. Now I have 10.6.4 and CS5.
> 
> So I did new profiles today and sure enough following old instructions, the targets (2 page EZ) looked good and not "dark and broody".

That therefore sounds wrong, because you want the target to look "dark and broody", not "good"...:-)

> 
> So I need to double triple check - in 10.6.X I have to , for printing the targets within Spyder 3 Print - 
> 
> 1. Under the print dialog option - Color Matching - pick Epson Color Controls and NOT Colorsync

Right.

> 
> 2. Under the Print Settings dialog and specifically the Color Settings pulldown I select Off (No Color Adjustment) and NOT Color Controls (with its options of Epson Vivid, Epson Standard and AdobeRGB)
> 

Right.

> The first time I printed the settings were:
> 
> 1. Epson Color Controls
> 2. Epson Standard
> 
> Result being a quite nice looking target that was a range of colors and hues.
> 
> So I am changing to :
> 
> 1. Epson Color Controls
> 2. Off (No Color Adjustment)
> 

That's the right way to print the target.

> Which rendered a target that was quite dark in Page 1 rows 2-3-4 and ABCD 7-12 (the largest observed differences) and Page 2 all 4 quadrants especially A-E rows 7-12.
> 

Perfect.

> The profile from attempt #1 rendered prints very dark, very red. I am now trying to measure and create a new profile with these two setting set as mentioned.
> 
> Am I on the right track? 

Yes. You should be fine with a profile built from measuring attempt #2. Your first target
print was color managed; it built a "do nothing" profile; so when you tried to use it for
printing, the profile did very little and the result was a dark, too-warm, print.

With the new target print, the profile will be correct, and it will give you the proper results.

David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
Datacolor

Well I still have issues with an overall red cast to prints using this profile.

The test prints within Spyder3 Print are fine, especially the quadrant with faces and skintones. This must indicate that the profile is working, yet output from CS5 and Lightroom 3 have a distinct red cast and are darker than the profiled monitor.

Printing using CS5 and the profile but, with the Epson driver handling the printing,  results in good prints and better than the Epson stock profiles. Ditto for Lightroom. 

I am printing with an Epson R1800 which uses Epson's drivers which are indicated for Snow Leopard but which are not in Apple's supported/incuded Snow Leopard drivers for Epson.I am wondering if these unsupported printers won't manage the workflow as well as ones that are so-called supported.

Maybe it is time for a 3880 which I understand is well supported in Snow Leopard. 



--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> wrote:

>
> 
> On Aug 21, 2010, at 3:24 PM, grandpollo wrote:
> 
> > Hi folks. It's been a while since I last successfully profiled, in 1.05X and using CS3. Now I have 10.6.4 and CS5.
> > 
> > So I did new profiles today and sure enough following old instructions, the targets (2 page EZ) looked good and not "dark and broody".
> 
> That therefore sounds wrong, because you want the target to look "dark and broody", not "good"...:-)
> 
> > 
> > So I need to double triple check - in 10.6.X I have to , for printing the targets within Spyder 3 Print - 
> > 
> > 1. Under the print dialog option - Color Matching - pick Epson Color Controls and NOT Colorsync
> 
> Right.
> 
> > 
> > 2. Under the Print Settings dialog and specifically the Color Settings pulldown I select Off (No Color Adjustment) and NOT Color Controls (with its options of Epson Vivid, Epson Standard and AdobeRGB)
> > 
> 
> Right.
> 
> > The first time I printed the settings were:
> > 
> > 1. Epson Color Controls
> > 2. Epson Standard
> > 
> > Result being a quite nice looking target that was a range of colors and hues.
> > 
> > So I am changing to :
> > 
> > 1. Epson Color Controls
> > 2. Off (No Color Adjustment)
> > 
> 
> That's the right way to print the target.
> 
> > Which rendered a target that was quite dark in Page 1 rows 2-3-4 and ABCD 7-12 (the largest observed differences) and Page 2 all 4 quadrants especially A-E rows 7-12.
> > 
> 
> Perfect.
> 
> > The profile from attempt #1 rendered prints very dark, very red. I am now trying to measure and create a new profile with these two setting set as mentioned.
> > 
> > Am I on the right track? 
> 
> Yes. You should be fine with a profile built from measuring attempt #2. Your first target
> print was color managed; it built a "do nothing" profile; so when you tried to use it for
> printing, the profile did very little and the result was a dark, too-warm, print.
> 
> With the new target print, the profile will be correct, and it will give you the proper results.
> 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> Datacolor
>

>>The test prints within Spyder3 Print are fine, especially the quadrant with faces and skintones. This must indicate that the profile is working, yet output from CS5 and Lightroom 3 have a distinct red cast and are darker than the profiled monitor.

>>Printing using CS5 and the profile but, with the Epson driver handling the printing,  results in good prints and better than the Epson stock profiles. Ditto for Lightroom.

Touring state whether the PS and LR results are less accurate than those from S3P, but given your title I'm assuming they are at least somewhat different. If so, you can try this test:

Convert the Spyder3Print "Matrix Large" test image from the test image folder to your custom output profile in Photoshop.  Then assign sRGB to the image if using Snow Leopard  (this would be genericRGB in Leopard). Note that the first operation is a conversion, the second assigns, instead of converts. Now print this image, and choose sRGB as the profile in the ColorSync section of the driver, if that's possible with your driver. See if the resulting print now matches your test image printed directly from Spyser3Print. If so, you have found your culprit: a printing workflow which cannot correctly convert to a custom profile. 

C. D. Tobie
Global Product Technology Mngr.
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
Datacolor.com
CDTobie@Datacolor.com

On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:52 AM, "grandpollo" <grandpollo@...> wrote:

> The test prints within Spyder3 Print are fine, especially the quadrant with faces and skintones. This must indicate that the profile is working, yet output from CS5 and Lightroom 3 have a distinct red cast and are darker than the profiled monitor.
> 
> Printing using CS5 and the profile but, with the Epson driver handling the printing,  results in good prints and better than the Epson stock profiles. Ditto for Lightroom.

The original posting and CDTobie's response seem to imply that Snow Leopard is now treating Epson print drivers properly.

This has *not* been my experience with OS X 10.6.x (currently 10.6.4) and CS5, CS4, and LightRoom 3 when used with the latest Epson-supplied driver for my 4880.

If I try to print with software managing the color --- e.g. "Photoshop manages color" --- the Epson printer driver greys out the choices in the "Color Matching" panel. That is a problem because "ColorSyn" has been automatically selected.  Once "ColorSyn" has been force-selected in the "Color Matching" panel, setting "Color Mode" in the "Printer Setting" panel to "Off" does not do what must be done.   It turns off *Epson* color control (since it is an Epson driver, after all), but does not turn off "ColorSyn" (which is an OS X control).

With current versions of OS X and the Epson 4880 driver, to print properly with Photoshop/Aperture/Lightroom managing printer color, the Epson driver must have the following combination of settings:

COLOR MATCHING:  Epson Color Controls  selected
PRINTER SETTINGS > COLOR MODE:  Off (No Color Management)

In the Printer Settings panel, if you click on Advanced Color Settings once you have set Color Mode to Off, you will get the following message: 
Epson Driver Color Management is Off

It seems that it means exactly what it says and no more.  *Epson* Driver Color Management is off, but ColorSync is something the Mac OS X does to control color. It has *not* been turned off.  And with the Color Management choices greyed out, there is no obvious way to turn it off.

Why am I so sure that this is happening with my system?  Simple. If I print with LightZone 3 or Photoshop CS (the original CS), the Color Matching choices are not greyed out, I can choose "Epson Color Controls" (if it isn't already selected) for Color Matching, set Color Mode to Off in the Printer Settings, and get prints that look as they should, given the printer and the profile I used.

I get exactly the same results with two different computers and the Epson 4880.

Myron

On Aug 24, 2010, at 9:16 PM, Myron Gochnauer wrote:

> The original posting and CDTobie's response seem to imply that Snow Leopard is now treating Epson print drivers properly.

I've never intended to imply that the color management issues are all fixed, as all fixed is far to broad a statement. There are printers for which new drivers will never be produced, and which will conflict with newer OS and application functions in definately, and there are some driver/OS/App combos that are still problematic while others now work, if properly configured... if one can even figure out what that proper configuration might be. This is less of an issue for those using driver color management, more of an issue for those printing with custom profiles, and more of an issue still for those attempting to print color targets from Photoshop or other such apps. With Spyder3Print SR, its not necessary to print the targets through Photoshop, so at the most complex, and pervasive, or those configurations is sidestepped.

At that point, your remaining issue, as you rightly point out, is getting driver color management turned off, AND getting your printing application/OS/Driver chain to avoid doing an incorrect profile conversion without your permission.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@datacolor.com

I am not sure how these settings allow CS5 or LR3 or any program that manages color for that matter to use a profile.

In CS5, to even be able to use other than Colorsync in the Epson printer driver, you have to select Printer Manages Colors. There goes the ICC profile.

In the Epson driver you can now select Epson color controls and in the Print Settings you have options to choose Standard or Vivid or Off.

Off makes the worst prints on Earth as they are not being controlled by anything other than the paper type which is really more about ink flow control than color.

So how is the paper profle being applied in this scenario?

I am using an R1800. It is clear lacking a true !0.6.X driver that profiles just do not work. They are too dark, maybe -1 stop and too red. That is using PS manages color and Epson Colorsync (no choice as you say) and No Color Managment.

What I have to do is turn off PS manages color, and either Colorsync with the profile chosen there and Epson Standard or Epson Color Controls and Epson Standard, then change the gamma to 2.2 and do test prints and manually adjust mainly magenta, cyan, and saturation.

I would be interest to know the entire end to end printing workflow you are using, e.g. the CS5 or LR3 settings and everything in the printer driver to understand where the ICC paper profile is entering the process. 



--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, Myron Gochnauer <goch@...> wrote:

>
> The original posting and CDTobie's response seem to imply that Snow Leopard is now treating Epson print drivers properly.
> 
> This has *not* been my experience with OS X 10.6.x (currently 10.6.4) and CS5, CS4, and LightRoom 3 when used with the latest Epson-supplied driver for my 4880.
> 
> If I try to print with software managing the color --- e.g. "Photoshop manages color" --- the Epson printer driver greys out the choices in the "Color Matching" panel. That is a problem because "ColorSyn" has been automatically selected.  Once "ColorSyn" has been force-selected in the "Color Matching" panel, setting "Color Mode" in the "Printer Setting" panel to "Off" does not do what must be done.   It turns off *Epson* color control (since it is an Epson driver, after all), but does not turn off "ColorSyn" (which is an OS X control).
> 
> With current versions of OS X and the Epson 4880 driver, to print properly with Photoshop/Aperture/Lightroom managing printer color, the Epson driver must have the following combination of settings:
> 
> COLOR MATCHING:  Epson Color Controls  selected
> PRINTER SETTINGS > COLOR MODE:  Off (No Color Management)
> 
> In the Printer Settings panel, if you click on Advanced Color Settings once you have set Color Mode to Off, you will get the following message: 
> Epson Driver Color Management is Off
> 
> It seems that it means exactly what it says and no more.  *Epson* Driver Color Management is off, but ColorSync is something the Mac OS X does to control color. It has *not* been turned off.  And with the Color Management choices greyed out, there is no obvious way to turn it off.
> 
> Why am I so sure that this is happening with my system?  Simple. If I print with LightZone 3 or Photoshop CS (the original CS), the Color Matching choices are not greyed out, I can choose "Epson Color Controls" (if it isn't already selected) for Color Matching, set Color Mode to Off in the Printer Settings, and get prints that look as they should, given the printer and the profile I used.
> 
> I get exactly the same results with two different computers and the Epson 4880.
> 
> Myron
>

Well I found a solution to the R1800. Buy a 3880 which are not only on sale here but have a $300 rebate.

With Epson profiles or Moab profiles (great paper for less than Epson by the way) they print matched to the display in one step.

Epson/Apple are nota going to provide a solution so for  the modest cost and huge ink tanks a better printer is the better way.

I will profile my usual paper and see how that goes thug the Epson and Moab profiles are exemplary.

Even the Epson driver with printer control is within a hair of the Photoshop handling the print job.

Retire your non compliant printers and save a few pulled hairs.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "grandpollo" <grandpollo@...> wrote:

>
> I am not sure how these settings allow CS5 or LR3 or any program that manages color for that matter to use a profile.
> 
> In CS5, to even be able to use other than Colorsync in the Epson printer driver, you have to select Printer Manages Colors. There goes the ICC profile.
> 
> In the Epson driver you can now select Epson color controls and in the Print Settings you have options to choose Standard or Vivid or Off.
> 
> Off makes the worst prints on Earth as they are not being controlled by anything other than the paper type which is really more about ink flow control than color.
> 
> So how is the paper profle being applied in this scenario?
> 
> I am using an R1800. It is clear lacking a true !0.6.X driver that profiles just do not work. They are too dark, maybe -1 stop and too red. That is using PS manages color and Epson Colorsync (no choice as you say) and No Color Managment.
> 
> What I have to do is turn off PS manages color, and either Colorsync with the profile chosen there and Epson Standard or Epson Color Controls and Epson Standard, then change the gamma to 2.2 and do test prints and manually adjust mainly magenta, cyan, and saturation.
> 
> I would be interest to know the entire end to end printing workflow you are using, e.g. the CS5 or LR3 settings and everything in the printer driver to understand where the ICC paper profile is entering the process. 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, Myron Gochnauer <goch@> wrote:
> >
> > The original posting and CDTobie's response seem to imply that Snow Leopard is now treating Epson print drivers properly.
> > 
> > This has *not* been my experience with OS X 10.6.x (currently 10.6.4) and CS5, CS4, and LightRoom 3 when used with the latest Epson-supplied driver for my 4880.
> > 
> > If I try to print with software managing the color --- e.g. "Photoshop manages color" --- the Epson printer driver greys out the choices in the "Color Matching" panel. That is a problem because "ColorSyn" has been automatically selected.  Once "ColorSyn" has been force-selected in the "Color Matching" panel, setting "Color Mode" in the "Printer Setting" panel to "Off" does not do what must be done.   It turns off *Epson* color control (since it is an Epson driver, after all), but does not turn off "ColorSyn" (which is an OS X control).
> > 
> > With current versions of OS X and the Epson 4880 driver, to print properly with Photoshop/Aperture/Lightroom managing printer color, the Epson driver must have the following combination of settings:
> > 
> > COLOR MATCHING:  Epson Color Controls  selected
> > PRINTER SETTINGS > COLOR MODE:  Off (No Color Management)
> > 
> > In the Printer Settings panel, if you click on Advanced Color Settings once you have set Color Mode to Off, you will get the following message: 
> > Epson Driver Color Management is Off
> > 
> > It seems that it means exactly what it says and no more.  *Epson* Driver Color Management is off, but ColorSync is something the Mac OS X does to control color. It has *not* been turned off.  And with the Color Management choices greyed out, there is no obvious way to turn it off.
> > 
> > Why am I so sure that this is happening with my system?  Simple. If I print with LightZone 3 or Photoshop CS (the original CS), the Color Matching choices are not greyed out, I can choose "Epson Color Controls" (if it isn't already selected) for Color Matching, set Color Mode to Off in the Printer Settings, and get prints that look as they should, given the printer and the profile I used.
> > 
> > I get exactly the same results with two different computers and the Epson 4880.
> > 
> > Myron
> >
>

On Aug 28, 2010, at 11:34 AM, Vampire D wrote:

> If for example I load an image in Windows Picture Viewer it looks really red on my HP, if I drag the window to the left onto the Samsung it looks fine.  I know Windows Picture Viewer on Windows 7 is color managed.  I reset the monitor to factor defaults and then switched it to custom color rgb 255/255/255 (default 6500K).  
> 
> I am calibrating for 2.2 - Native on both monitors.  I've even tried setting the profile to sRGB for the HP.
> 
> If I load the image in LR/PS it looks good if I drag it to the other monitor, it still looks good (not as good but I think that is the difference in monitors, the colors look very similar).

Typically, when an image looks good in a color managed app, and bad in an noncolor managed app, that means that the calibration (which effects both) is okay, but the profile (used only by the CM app) is important to getting the color right. You are claiming that Windows Picture Viewer is color managed... I'd have to wonder, since the results are different, if thats true. Or if its totally true. Perhaps it works with the main profile, so is right on that screen, but wrong on the second screen? Or some other such issue.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager
Digital Imaging & Home Theater
CDTobie@...

"grandpollo" <grandpollo@...> wrote: . . .
> I am using an R1800. It is clear lacking a true !0.6.X driver that profiles just do not work.

What driver(s) have you used under 10.6x?  Looks like the Printer Driver v6.12 is the latest.  I have friend who has asked for my help with a similar hardware / software set-up.
Thanks,
Mark Godfrey
Ojai, CA
- - -
Epson R1800 Drivers & Downloads
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?oid=14121&prodoid=53540919&infoType=Downloads&platform=Macintosh

I am or was using 6.12 as well. There is a UK driver 6.57 but it is no better and you lose all or many US sized paper options like 11 X 14 and it won't let you make a new paper template that is not roll fed.

It's time to cut bait frankly. The 1800 is not sold any more, though I am not sure the 1900 would be any better. The 3880 is  a dream vs. A nightmare to use. One possibility is to use a VM and run Windows and print using the Windows driver for the 1800. A VM is cheaper if you can find an editor that uses profiles that is less expensive than buying Photoshop for Windows.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <grfx@...> wrote:

>
> "grandpollo" <grandpollo@> wrote: . . .
> > I am using an R1800. It is clear lacking a true !0.6.X driver that profiles just do not work.
> 
> What driver(s) have you used under 10.6x?  Looks like the Printer Driver v6.12 is the latest.  I have friend who has asked for my help with a similar hardware / software set-up.
> Thanks,
> Mark Godfrey
> Ojai, CA
> - - -
> Epson R1800 Drivers & Downloads
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?oid=14121&prodoid=53540919&infoType=Downloads&platform=Macintosh
>

So a common problem under Mac OS10.6+ and PScs4+ is printing an untagged image with no conversion, as needed for a target to be profiled.

The work around being a "null transformation" to overcome the OS converting untagged images to sRGB when asked to print using "no color management". This is done by assigning an RGB profile and then printing using that same profile -- per C.D. Tobie's post & Eric Chang at http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml

Another issue are (Epson) print drivers that lack an Off (No Color Adjustment) button, and invoke ColorSync when using printer profiles.

Do I understand the problems & challenges with this OS, application & print driver?

Mark Godfrey
Ojai, CA
- - -

No.

The problem is not making profiles at all. Spyderprint does that fine and in any case the Epson icc profiles are quite good. Very good, actually.

The problem is when you print with Photoshop handles colors and use that or an Epson profile it looks like crap.

Since the Epson driver and the R1800 are essentially obsolete in Snow Leopard. Which is why my R1800 is on Craigslist and the R3880 is in use as it works perfectly with Epson and Moab profiles in CS with PS handling colors.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <grfx@...> wrote:

>
> 
> So a common problem under Mac OS10.6+ and PScs4+ is printing an untagged image with no conversion, as needed for a target to be profiled.
> 
> The work around being a "null transformation" to overcome the OS converting untagged images to sRGB when asked to print using "no color management". This is done by assigning an RGB profile and then printing using that same profile -- per C.D. Tobie's post & Eric Chang at http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/solving.shtml
> 
> Another issue are (Epson) print drivers that lack an Off (No Color Adjustment) button, and invoke ColorSync when using printer profiles.
> 
> Do I understand the problems & challenges with this OS, application & print driver?
> 
> Mark Godfrey
> Ojai, CA
> - - -
>

"grandpollo" wrote . . . > Since the Epson driver and the R1800 are essentially obsolete in Snow Leopard. Which is why my R1800 is on Craigslist and the R3880 is in use as it works perfectly with Epson and Moab profiles in CS with PS handling colors. . . . 

So using OS10.6.x / PScs5 the Epson driver for your 3880 has a Color Management >Â  Off (No color Adjustment) radio button, and the R1800 for the same OS & application does not (v6.12 driver plus the update 1.02) ?

That is great that the Spyder3 can print untagged targets under this OS with no color change. My previous comment was focused on printing from PhotoShop, which cannot. From what I read, many applications are having trouble implementing a "no color management" printing. Below is a quote from Adobe found at http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/834/cpsid_83497.html

"The No Color Management option had to be taken out because it's no longer possible within the printing code provided by Mac OS X 10.6. Adobe isn't the only company affected by this. As noted in the article, Adobe is working on a different way to restore the ability of printing untagged targets without color management."

Thanks for your comment Jack. Anyone running Windows with PScs5 will also want to use the work-around if they need to print untagged / unchanged images as the "The No Color Management option" has been taken out of the Windows application also. Below I paraphrase from the same Adobe Tech Note.

The option was removed because of the long-term challenge of keeping the No Color Management path in PhotoShop working consistently as color printing code gets updated in both operating systems. This is why Adobe has decided to move the function outside of PhotoShop and into a separate target printing application that's easier to adapt quickly as things change.

Mark
- - -

I know there is a lot of hue and cry over printing targets in Photoshop etc. Since I use Spyderprint and this group is about using Datacolor programs it has always amused me as to this specific issue. Since the program works fine. 

But to the R1800 assuming you actually have one as this thread is about that printer - it doesn't matter much if you can print profiles or not since once you do they are as useful as a three-legged cat in your workflow.

Unless you have old, slow mice where you print that is.

Absent a usable 10.6.X driver you may as well use test strips and Epson's own control and manually adjust to get your results.

--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <grfx@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> "grandpollo" wrote . . . > Since the Epson driver and the R1800 are essentially obsolete in Snow Leopard. Which is why my R1800 is on Craigslist and the R3880 is in use as it works perfectly with Epson and Moab profiles in CS with PS handling colors. . . . 
> 
> So using OS10.6.x / PScs5 the Epson driver for your 3880 has a Color Management >Â  Off (No color Adjustment) radio button, and the R1800 for the same OS & application does not (v6.12 driver plus the update 1.02) ?
> 
> That is great that the Spyder3 can print untagged targets under this OS with no color change. My previous comment was focused on printing from PhotoShop, which cannot. From what I read, many applications are having trouble implementing a "no color management" printing. Below is a quote from Adobe found at http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/834/cpsid_83497.html
> 
> "The No Color Management option had to be taken out because it's no longer possible within the printing code provided by Mac OS X 10.6. Adobe isn't the only company affected by this. As noted in the article, Adobe is working on a different way to restore the ability of printing untagged targets without color management."
> 
> Thanks for your comment Jack. Anyone running Windows with PScs5 will also want to use the work-around if they need to print untagged / unchanged images as the "The No Color Management option" has been taken out of the Windows application also. Below I paraphrase from the same Adobe Tech Note.
> 
> The option was removed because of the long-term challenge of keeping the No Color Management path in PhotoShop working consistently as color printing code gets updated in both operating systems. This is why Adobe has decided to move the function outside of PhotoShop and into a separate target printing application that's easier to adapt quickly as things change.
> 
> Mark
> - - -
>

Sorry for the delayed update, but perhaps I can add some useful information to this thread: To print allowing PhotoShop to manage color under Mac OS10.6.x look into resetting the colorsync-utility default color profile -- details below.* (First make sure you are not using a Gutenprint driver.) 

After setting up my friend's Mac OS10.6.2, we get accurate color managed prints from PS using a custom profile for his R1800 via USB, and the Epson Driver v6.12. 

grandpollo, I have two R1800s at work. I'm not sure how to interpret "old, slow mice where you print"-- personally I'm not using 10.6 -- in case that's colloquial slang referring to an older OS.  Indeed there is a wide gamut of "hue and cry" over color printing in general, and targets in particular. 

At the bottom I repeat some of Myron's post outlining the limited driver option settings in printing from OS 10.6.x.  

Mark 
- - -

* Under OS 10.6.x Colorsync chooses a default manufacturer's profile for your printer, if you select another it turns it off. This seems to allow the application to fully manage color.  Launch the colorsync-utility, click the Device icon, go into Printers and choose your printer (click on the grey triangle) you'll see a list of icc-profiles for the printer (SPR1800 standard.icc was marked out as standard profile with a blue dot for the R1800)

Highlight this icc-profile and change by choosing «Another» in the dropdown list so the icc-profile is no longer be marked as standard profile.

- - -

--- "grandpollo" <grandpollo@...> wrote:
> I know there is a lot of hue and cry over printing targets in Photoshop etc. Since I use Spyderprint and this group is about using Datacolor programs it has always amused me as to this specific issue. Since the program works fine. 
> 
> But to the R1800 assuming you actually have one as this thread is about that printer - it doesn't matter much if you can print profiles or not since once you do they are as useful as a three-legged cat in your workflow.
> 
> Unless you have old, slow mice where you print that is.
> 
> Absent a usable 10.6.X driver you may as well use test strips and Epson's own control and manually adjust to get your results.

--- Myron Gochnauer <goch@...> wrote in part
. . . . with OS X 10.6.x (currently 10.6.4) and CS5, CS4, and LightRoom 3 when used with the latest Epson-supplied driver for my 4880.
> 
> If I try to print with software managing the color --- e.g. "Photoshop manages color" --- the Epson printer driver greys out the choices in the "Color Matching" panel. That is a problem because "ColorSync" has been automatically selected.  Once "ColorSync" has been force-selected in the "Color Matching" panel, setting "Color Mode" in the "Printer Setting" panel to "Off" does not do what must be done.   It turns off *Epson* color control (since it is an Epson driver, after all), but does not turn off "ColorSync" (which is an OS X control).
> 
> With current versions of OS X and the Epson 4880 driver, to print properly with Photoshop/Aperture/Lightroom managing printer color, the Epson driver must have the following combination of settings:
> 
> COLOR MATCHING:  Epson Color Controls  selected
> PRINTER SETTINGS > COLOR MODE:  Off (No Color Management)
> 
> In the Printer Settings panel, if you click on Advanced Color Settings once you have set Color Mode to Off, you will get the following message: 
> Epson Driver Color Management is Off
> 
> It seems that it means exactly what it says and no more.  *Epson* Driver Color Management is off, but ColorSync is something the Mac OS X does to control color. It has *not* been turned off.  And with the Color Management choices greyed out, there is no obvious way to turn it off.

- - -

How come then that Adobe left the No Colour Management option in PSE9 on the MAC??



--- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "grandpollo" <grandpollo@...> wrote:

>
> I know there is a lot of hue and cry over printing targets in Photoshop etc. Since I use Spyderprint and this group is about using Datacolor programs it has always amused me as to this specific issue. Since the program works fine. 
> 
> But to the R1800 assuming you actually have one as this thread is about that printer - it doesn't matter much if you can print profiles or not since once you do they are as useful as a three-legged cat in your workflow.
> 
> Unless you have old, slow mice where you print that is.
> 
> Absent a usable 10.6.X driver you may as well use test strips and Epson's own control and manually adjust to get your results.
> 
> --- In datacolor_group@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <grfx@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > "grandpollo" wrote . . . > Since the Epson driver and the R1800 are essentially obsolete in Snow Leopard. Which is why my R1800 is on Craigslist and the R3880 is in use as it works perfectly with Epson and Moab profiles in CS with PS handling colors. . . . 
> > 
> > So using OS10.6.x / PScs5 the Epson driver for your 3880 has a Color Management >Â  Off (No color Adjustment) radio button, and the R1800 for the same OS & application does not (v6.12 driver plus the update 1.02) ?
> > 
> > That is great that the Spyder3 can print untagged targets under this OS with no color change. My previous comment was focused on printing from PhotoShop, which cannot. From what I read, many applications are having trouble implementing a "no color management" printing. Below is a quote from Adobe found at http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/834/cpsid_83497.html
> > 
> > "The No Color Management option had to be taken out because it's no longer possible within the printing code provided by Mac OS X 10.6. Adobe isn't the only company affected by this. As noted in the article, Adobe is working on a different way to restore the ability of printing untagged targets without color management."
> > 
> > Thanks for your comment Jack. Anyone running Windows with PScs5 will also want to use the work-around if they need to print untagged / unchanged images as the "The No Color Management option" has been taken out of the Windows application also. Below I paraphrase from the same Adobe Tech Note.
> > 
> > The option was removed because of the long-term challenge of keeping the No Color Management path in PhotoShop working consistently as color printing code gets updated in both operating systems. This is why Adobe has decided to move the function outside of PhotoShop and into a separate target printing application that's easier to adapt quickly as things change.
> > 
> > Mark
> > - - -
> >
>