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New User

New User

2006-02-26 by jmm09184

Hi all,

I'm new user on this group.

I have my PFP for a little more than a week and I've spend a great 
part of my night "playing" with it.

Comming from Profile Prism (Scanner based profiling software) I'm 
impressed by the results.

My main printers are:
Canon Pixma5000 (Canon Ink)
Canon I900D (Mediastreet Dye Ink)
Epson R320 (Mediastreet CIS Pigmented Ink)

Paper I use:
Ilford Smooth Gloss (Sam's Club version)
Ilford Smooth Pearl (Sam's Club version)
Legion Photo Silk (To be profiled)
Kodak Professional Luster (under profiling)
Kodak Professional Gloss

I ordered from Cathy profile a custom profile for my combo 
I900D/Ink/Ilford smooth gloss.

Like I said, so far the results are as expected. But I still have 
some question.
On Canon printer, I don't have much trouble.
Epson R320 is more questionable.

What is the best and recommended setup for the paper to print the 
target?

Epson are known to print dark when color correction is off.
Also, does the paper selection in the printer driver making a big 
difference for the workflow.
I use to select Premium glossy for glossy paper and premium luster 
for luster paper.
Yesterday I've try the "paper Photo" selection and I think the 
result are better. Could be just an illusion.
To be honest, when I close my eyes, I see small colored square.....

Could you detail you workflow to process the target print?

thanks,

Jean-Marc

Re: [colorvision_group] New User

2006-02-26 by David Miller

>
>
>What is the best and recommended setup for the paper to print the
>target?

225 patch target. And (a general observation): If you're using Windows,
set the paper margins (in Page Setup) for your printer so that you have
less white space than the default settings, for the printer driver, around
the outside. This will give you larger patches in your target print and
it will make reading faster and easier (you won't have to spend as much time
worrying about whether you're too close to the edge of the patch or not).

In general: use Page Setup and the printer margins to get as LARGE a print
of the target on a sheet of paper as possible.

>Epson are known to print dark when color correction is off.

That's the case for all printers; and that's what the profile is going to
adjust for. How dark this ends up being will depend on the paper selection
in the printer driver (which leads to your next question).

>Also, does the paper selection in the printer driver making a big
>difference for the workflow.

It will potentially let you build a better profile, depending on your choices
here. The Help file for the Media Setting Check screen contains a great deal
of useful information about why some media settings in the driver may be better
for you than others.

>I use to select Premium glossy for glossy paper and premium luster
>for luster paper.

Those are most straightforward choices, since those are the Epson-recommended
settings for EPSON Premium Glossy Photo Paper, and EPSON Premium Luster;
they may not be the best settings for the non-Epson papers that you're
profiling.

My suggestion would be: for a given paper, use the Media Setting Check
feature in PrintFIX PRO to print the Media Setting Check image on up to
4 quarter quadrants (corners) of the same sheet of paper. Print each with a
different driver media setting and type the setting description into the UI
screen so that it prints out automatically underneath for later reference.
Then let the print dry and evaluate according to the suggestions in the Help
screen. Make your choices based on that.

(You could print this on 4 different sheets of paper; I just like to conserve
paper)

>Yesterday I've try the "paper Photo" selection and I think the
>result are better. Could be just an illusion.

This is the main reason why we included the Media Setting Check feature;
so that there would be a reasonably straightforward way to see how much
ink the media settings in the driver put down with color management turned off,
and how this affects the total distribution of printable colors in RGB space.

>To be honest, when I close my eyes, I see small colored square.....
>
>Could you detail you workflow to process the target print?

Pick a paper you want to profile; say, Ilford Smooth Pearl.

Go to Media Setting check and print onto 4 corners of it (putting the paper
back through; just make sure it's dry and won't smear between prints);
picking Epson media settings in the driver such as: Premium Glossy; Premium
Luster; there should be a "Film" setting in there, I forget the exact name;
and maybe one other.

Look at these prints on the sheet, after it's finished and dried, and evaluate:
how dark is black; how much does it block up in the shadows; how saturated
are the pure colors; how do the gradients look?

(My experience profiling the 1280: I discovered through the Media Setting Check
feature that the "film" setting in the driver produced the best results (and
the deepest black); and a custom profile I made for Premium Luster through that
setting produced the richest and most vivid prints on the 1280 that I've
ever seen.)

Once you've decided on the media setting you're going to use, print the
225 patch target through it. Let it dry and then measure it; then build a
profile. After you've done some printing through it; if you want; you could
repeat the process with a different media setting and then compare profiled
prints made through each profile/media setting combination.

After you've decided what you like the best (at 225 patches), you could
print the 729 patch target through those settings, measure and build a profile;
and then see if your results are improved.

Best regards,

-- 
David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
ColorVision

Re: New User

2006-02-26 by jmm09184

David,

Thanks for this long and detailled reply as usual.
I will try these options and than post my results.

Last Friday I've downloaded the Beta version (PrintFIX PRO 1.1 beta1)
It's the one I'm using. You gave me the link in a personal email.
(My name is Jean-Marc Mifsud, DPREVIEW user)
So far no real problem, from time to time, when I start the 
application, I got a crash (Windows fatal error). 100% of the time 
on the next start it's ok.
I will try to be more precise next time on the exact condition, so 
it will be possible for you to investigate.
"A problem reproductable is a problem fixable"

Thanks for your support.

Jean-Marc


--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, David Miller <dm2363@...> 
wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >What is the best and recommended setup for the paper to print the
> >target?
> 
> 225 patch target. And (a general observation): If you're using 
Windows,
> set the paper margins (in Page Setup) for your printer so that you 
have
> less white space than the default settings, for the printer 
driver, around
> the outside. This will give you larger patches in your target 
print and
> it will make reading faster and easier (you won't have to spend as 
much time
> worrying about whether you're too close to the edge of the patch 
or not).
> 
> In general: use Page Setup and the printer margins to get as LARGE 
a print
> of the target on a sheet of paper as possible.
> 
> >Epson are known to print dark when color correction is off.
> 
> That's the case for all printers; and that's what the profile is 
going to
> adjust for. How dark this ends up being will depend on the paper 
selection
> in the printer driver (which leads to your next question).
> 
> >Also, does the paper selection in the printer driver making a big
> >difference for the workflow.
> 
> It will potentially let you build a better profile, depending on 
your choices
> here. The Help file for the Media Setting Check screen contains a 
great deal
> of useful information about why some media settings in the driver 
may be better
> for you than others.
> 
> >I use to select Premium glossy for glossy paper and premium luster
> >for luster paper.
> 
> Those are most straightforward choices, since those are the Epson-
recommended
> settings for EPSON Premium Glossy Photo Paper, and EPSON Premium 
Luster;
> they may not be the best settings for the non-Epson papers that 
you're
> profiling.
> 
> My suggestion would be: for a given paper, use the Media Setting 
Check
> feature in PrintFIX PRO to print the Media Setting Check image on 
up to
> 4 quarter quadrants (corners) of the same sheet of paper. Print 
each with a
> different driver media setting and type the setting description 
into the UI
> screen so that it prints out automatically underneath for later 
reference.
> Then let the print dry and evaluate according to the suggestions 
in the Help
> screen. Make your choices based on that.
> 
> (You could print this on 4 different sheets of paper; I just like 
to conserve
> paper)
> 
> >Yesterday I've try the "paper Photo" selection and I think the
> >result are better. Could be just an illusion.
> 
> This is the main reason why we included the Media Setting Check 
feature;
> so that there would be a reasonably straightforward way to see how 
much
> ink the media settings in the driver put down with color 
management turned off,
> and how this affects the total distribution of printable colors in 
RGB space.
> 
> >To be honest, when I close my eyes, I see small colored 
square.....
> >
> >Could you detail you workflow to process the target print?
> 
> Pick a paper you want to profile; say, Ilford Smooth Pearl.
> 
> Go to Media Setting check and print onto 4 corners of it (putting 
the paper
> back through; just make sure it's dry and won't smear between 
prints);
> picking Epson media settings in the driver such as: Premium 
Glossy; Premium
> Luster; there should be a "Film" setting in there, I forget the 
exact name;
> and maybe one other.
> 
> Look at these prints on the sheet, after it's finished and dried, 
and evaluate:
> how dark is black; how much does it block up in the shadows; how 
saturated
> are the pure colors; how do the gradients look?
> 
> (My experience profiling the 1280: I discovered through the Media 
Setting Check
> feature that the "film" setting in the driver produced the best 
results (and
> the deepest black); and a custom profile I made for Premium Luster 
through that
> setting produced the richest and most vivid prints on the 1280 
that I've
> ever seen.)
> 
> Once you've decided on the media setting you're going to use, 
print the
> 225 patch target through it. Let it dry and then measure it; then 
build a
> profile. After you've done some printing through it; if you want; 
you could
> repeat the process with a different media setting and then compare 
profiled
> prints made through each profile/media setting combination.
> 
> After you've decided what you like the best (at 225 patches), you 
could
> print the 729 patch target through those settings, measure and 
build a profile;
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> and then see if your results are improved.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> -- 
> David Miller
> Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
> ColorVision
>

[colorvision_group] Re: New User

2006-02-26 by David Miller

>David,
>
>Thanks for this long and detailled reply as usual.
>I will try these options and than post my results.

Great!

>Last Friday I've downloaded the Beta version (PrintFIX PRO 1.1 beta1)
>It's the one I'm using. You gave me the link in a personal email.
>(My name is Jean-Marc Mifsud, DPREVIEW user)

(Yes, that's correct...:-) I remember...)

>So far no real problem, from time to time, when I start the
>application, I got a crash (Windows fatal error). 100% of the time
>on the next start it's ok.

Interesting; this is something that you -hadn't- seen when running 1.0?
(Just curious as to whether this could be something "new"; or something
old that you just might not have noticed before).

>I will try to be more precise next time on the exact condition, so
>it will be possible for you to investigate.
>"A problem reproductable is a problem fixable"

You're right about that; it's the problems that aren't reproducible
that are more difficult to fix. If you find that you can get it to happen
semi-regularly, contact me again off-list and I can email you a debug
version so that we can take a stab at pinning it down.

>Thanks for your support.
>

You're welcome!


Best regards,

-- 
David Miller
Senior Software Developer, Digital Color Solutions
ColorVision

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: New User

2006-02-27 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 2/26/06 6:22:09 PM, jmm09184@... writes:


I will try to be more precise next time on the exact condition, so
it will be possible for you to investigate.
"A problem reproductable is a problem fixable"

The word order would indicate this quote is translated from the French; but its true in any language... everybody hates an unreproducable issue. Nail down your causes if possible (disconnecting all extraneous external devices: Wacom pads, etc... and any network printers, would be a good idea, for troubleshooting purposes). If your crashes continue, we can send you a special error logging version of the application that will help us trace the source of the issue.

We have seen a repeated crash on startup in at least one case, when the default Windows printer was a networked laser, and the application choked as it tried to configure to that default printer. Simply choosing a direct connected inkjet as the default printer stopped the crash, after which is was possible to print to the laser, it just wouldn't start up that way. We'll find out more about such possible issues as more users run the application in a wider range of situations. So far, I've been very pleased with the stability of the application, given that its a new, from scratch app, on two platforms, with device drivers, and printer direct communication.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...

www.colorvision.com

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