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Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

2006-05-22 by CDTobie@aol.com

Here's an FAQ I just wrote up for ColorVision Support purposes. It might be of interest to a few list members, especially in England, where Fotonic Dye inks continue to have loyal users.

Q: I am attempting to use a third party ink from Lyson called Fotonic Dye ink in my Epson printer. It does not measure and profile as I would expect it to with PrintFIX PRO. Is there some underlying reason for this, or is it just me?

A: The Fotonic inks were quite popular years ago when Epson dye ink printers were common. Now there are only a couple of Epson dye ink models available, and they are not part of the photo printer line, so we see a lot less of the Fotonics. Fotonic inks are more difficult to profile with colorimetric measurement devices than most other dye inks. If you need to use Fotonic Dye inks in your printer, then it is not recommended that you choose PrintFIX PRO for your profiling needs. If you wish to use PrintFIX PRO for your profiling, then changing to a pigment-based Lyson ink, or some other third party inkset, or using the manufacturer's inks for your printer, would be recommended.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

RE: [colorvision_group] Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

2006-05-22 by Kris

David, could you expand on this?  I've used the Photonics in the past,
remember that the colors are very different, (magenta is very red, yellow is
almost orange, etc.), but I'm not sure I understand why PrintFix Pro would
be any less successful at building a profile than anothe rprofiling package?
 
Just curious, 
-kris


  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CDTobie@...
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:06 PM
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [colorvision_group] Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ


Here's an FAQ I just wrote up for ColorVision Support purposes. It might be
of interest to a few list members, especially in England, where Fotonic Dye
inks continue to have loyal users.

Q: I am attempting to use a third party ink from Lyson called Fotonic Dye
ink in my Epson printer. It does not measure and profile as I would expect
it to with PrintFIX PRO. Is there some underlying reason for this, or is it
just me?

A: The Fotonic inks were quite popular years ago when Epson dye ink printers
were common. Now there are only a couple of Epson dye ink models available,
and they are not part of the photo printer line, so we see a lot less of the
Fotonics. Fotonic inks are more difficult to profile with colorimetric
measurement devices than most other dye inks. If you need to use Fotonic Dye
inks in your printer, then it is not recommended that you choose PrintFIX
PRO for your profiling needs. If you wish to use PrintFIX PRO for your
profiling, then changing to a pigment-based Lyson ink, or some other third
party inkset, or using the manufacturer's inks for your printer, would be
recommended.

Re: Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

2006-05-22 by sinar001

Kris:
Are you sure you are not thinking of the Lyson dye inks? (these came out prior to the 
Fotonics and caused many an Epson to have teminal head problems unless thoroughly 
flushed first) They were quite fade resistant, but had a major problem with red gamut!

John Nollendorfs
--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Kris" <km-yahoo@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> David, could you expand on this?  I've used the Photonics in the past,
> remember that the colors are very different, (magenta is very red, yellow is
> almost orange, etc.), but I'm not sure I understand why PrintFix Pro would
> be any less successful at building a profile than anothe rprofiling package?
>  
> Just curious, 
> -kris
> 
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CDTobie@...
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:06 PM
> To: colorvision_group@...m
> Subject: [colorvision_group] Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ
> 
> 
> Here's an FAQ I just wrote up for ColorVision Support purposes. It might be
> of interest to a few list members, especially in England, where Fotonic Dye
> inks continue to have loyal users.
> 
> Q: I am attempting to use a third party ink from Lyson called Fotonic Dye
> ink in my Epson printer. It does not measure and profile as I would expect
> it to with PrintFIX PRO. Is there some underlying reason for this, or is it
> just me?
> 
> A: The Fotonic inks were quite popular years ago when Epson dye ink printers
> were common. Now there are only a couple of Epson dye ink models available,
> and they are not part of the photo printer line, so we see a lot less of the
> Fotonics. Fotonic inks are more difficult to profile with colorimetric
> measurement devices than most other dye inks. If you need to use Fotonic Dye
> inks in your printer, then it is not recommended that you choose PrintFIX
> PRO for your profiling needs. If you wish to use PrintFIX PRO for your
> profiling, then changing to a pigment-based Lyson ink, or some other third
> party inkset, or using the manufacturer's inks for your printer, would be
> recommended.
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

2006-05-22 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 5/22/06 12:22:10 PM, km-yahoo@... writes:


David, could you expand on this? I've used the Photonics in the past, remember that the colors are very different, (magenta is very red, yellow is almost orange, etc.), but I'm not sure I understand why PrintFix Pro would be any less successful at building a profile than anothe rprofiling package?


The differences with the Fotonic inks don't end with the ink hues. There is a good deal of metamerism with these inks, most likely caused by ink fluorescence. This is most problematic when you get into split channel inks; if the light to dark components don't balance properly (to the measurement device) then things tend to get ugly when the profile tries to compensate for things it can't control. That would explain why I had reasonable luck with Fotonics years ago with the four ink Epson 3000, but they are more problematic with today's R200 and R220 models (about the only dye printers Epson still makes). As for other packages, I expect that all devices will be effected by this, to one degree or another, but its possible that PrintFIX PRO, as a spectrocolorimeter instead of a spectrophotometer, might be more effected than other devices.

Thats not really the focus of this FAQ, however. The goal here is to warn "dyed in the wool" (if you'll pardon the pun) Fotonic users to not expect PrintFIX PRO to offer the same type of results for Fotonic Dye inks as it will offer for OEM dye inks. We don't want unsatisfied users, and we certainly don't bad reviews from reviewers that happen to have use this combination; something that certainly could happen in England, home of many devoted users of older printer models, and Fotonic inks.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

RE: [colorvision_group] Re: Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

2006-05-23 by Kris

John, I installed and tried both fotonic and lysonic dye inks.  I do
remember the 
clog problem, pH difference in the ink, if I remember.  

It was long ago, and I've since moved to piggies, like almost everyone else.

-kris
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sinar001
> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:27 PM
> To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [colorvision_group] Re: Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ
> 
> Kris:
> Are you sure you are not thinking of the Lyson dye inks? 
> (these came out prior to the Fotonics and caused many an 
> Epson to have teminal head problems unless thoroughly flushed 
> first) They were quite fade resistant, but had a major 
> problem with red gamut!
> 
> John Nollendorfs
> --- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Kris" <km-yahoo@...> wrote:
> >
> > David, could you expand on this?  I've used the Photonics 
> in the past, 
> > remember that the colors are very different, (magenta is very red, 
> > yellow is almost orange, etc.), but I'm not sure I understand why 
> > PrintFix Pro would be any less successful at building a 
> profile than anothe rprofiling package?
> >  
> > Just curious,
> > -kris
> > 
> > 
> >   _____
> > 
> > From: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com 
> > [mailto:colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of CDTobie@...
> > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 12:06 PM
> > To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [colorvision_group] Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ
> > 
> > 
> > Here's an FAQ I just wrote up for ColorVision Support purposes. It 
> > might be of interest to a few list members, especially in England, 
> > where Fotonic Dye inks continue to have loyal users.
> > 
> > Q: I am attempting to use a third party ink from Lyson 
> called Fotonic 
> > Dye ink in my Epson printer. It does not measure and profile as I 
> > would expect it to with PrintFIX PRO. Is there some 
> underlying reason 
> > for this, or is it just me?
> > 
> > A: The Fotonic inks were quite popular years ago when Epson dye ink 
> > printers were common. Now there are only a couple of Epson dye ink 
> > models available, and they are not part of the photo 
> printer line, so 
> > we see a lot less of the Fotonics. Fotonic inks are more 
> difficult to 
> > profile with colorimetric measurement devices than most other dye 
> > inks. If you need to use Fotonic Dye inks in your printer, 
> then it is 
> > not recommended that you choose PrintFIX PRO for your 
> profiling needs. 
> > If you wish to use PrintFIX PRO for your profiling, then 
> changing to a 
> > pigment-based Lyson ink, or some other third party inkset, or using 
> > the manufacturer's inks for your printer, would be recommended.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

2006-05-23 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 5/23/06 12:52:18 PM, km-yahoo@... writes:


I installed and tried both fotonic and lysonic dye inks. ...

It was long ago, and I've since moved to piggies, like almost everyone else.

Thus I posted this FAQ mostly as a footnote; except perhaps in England, I don't expect it will be much of an issue.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision.com
www.colorvision.com

Re: Lyson Fotonic Dye Ink Metamerism FAQ

2006-05-23 by sinar001

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 5/23/06 12:52:18 PM, km-yahoo@... writes:
> 
> 
> > I installed and tried both fotonic and lysonic dye inks.  ...
> > 
> > It was long ago, and I've since moved to piggies, like almost everyone else.
> > 
> Thus I posted this FAQ mostly as a footnote; except perhaps in England, I 
> don't expect it will be much of an issue.

By the way David,
Lincoln Ink & Paper's  Wide Specrum Dyes seemed to profile quite nicely with PrintFix Pro. 
Initially I had a problem with an ancient 4-color epson 900, but since I replaced that with a 
new out of the box 980 (five years sitting in the box) the profile looks great. Also, on my 
now ancient 9000 running the same dyes (6 color version).

John Nollendorfs

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