Carol, You know, your opinions don't seem crusty... but they are a bit biased in one direction. Let me toss out a few salient, and almost too-obvious points for consideration on the other side... point by point to yours... 0 - Buying used isn't always to 'save a little money'. Sometimes one buys used to get more features and a better quality for the SAME money as one would spend new. That is, to follow your analogy, one might spend $15k on a new Ford Probe base vehicle, vs spending the same $15k on a used Lincoln or Caddy. In your analogy, one concludes your recommendation to buy the Probe.... I'd disagree. 1 - See before you buy..... Absolutely! I know when we went and purchased our Steinway, we spent hours playing, feeling the action, hearing the sounds.... making sure the highs were as bright as what we wanted without loosing the lows..... Cleary, to me at least, buying an instrument without playing it, hearing it, seeing it first is un-fathomable... When you buy used - you can arrange to see/hear etc. Yet when you buy new... I keep coming across those who 'ordered' their new grand... and '..it will be coming in x months....' Absolutely not! A fine used Strad, Steinway - or Yamaha that I can hear, touch, feel and play wins out well over a new 'ordered' instrument. 2 - Great idea - and we agree. ALWAYS have your purchase checked out by a knowledgeable and experienced set of eyes and hands. I would maintain this to be required be it OLD or NEW... used or factory order. We agree - no impact on new vs used choice. 3 - Features? Absolutely! Again, note my comment at the top regarding why used.... One could find a used Grand vs a new upright.... Not only should you know what you are getting - but know what you need / want. Again, I'd posit not an impact on the new vs used choice. 4 - Gray market and US targeted instrument: Absolutely! Once again, like buying a car in Mexico and bringing it back to the US... not quite!! What ever is bought should be purpose built... we agree, but again, not a new vs used.... It is just as 'easy' to find a gray market 'new' piano that bypassed the system. Check those serial and references; new or used!! 5 - Low price isn't always best! -Wow, again we agree! Your example of the piano in a its original packing crate is perfect! Oh, that's a reason not to buy new, un played, un heard, un seen.... Sorry! One for the used side! 6 - 1987 Intel 8088... Well, actually, the 8088 was back earlier than 1987. Today, a new DD floppy can be found for under $100. Yes, the DSR1 upgrade has a list price of $1295... but who pays list (I bought my DSR1 for $250... (oh yes, it was used... and I still have it running a few years later!). Again, I'd urge see #3 above... know thy features! Are you looking for an electronic piano that happens to have an acoustic capability??? or an Acoustic that has some electronic???? 7 - See the top....Your analogy is great.... Buying the Mercedes with 150,000 miles for an S type Diesel for the same price as a new C190?? Me, I'd opt for the S500 Diesel, after I'd seen it. BUT - I think we agree on this; in either case, new or used, the dealer honesty, the dealer service capability and the availability of a good top notch technician BEFORE and AFTER the sale makes or breaks a happy long term marriage. Just my thoughts - on the other side! Ed The Old Mercedes Guy..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...> To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:42 PM Subject: [disklavier] Buying a Used Disklaver | I know my opinions may seem a little crusty at times when it comes to buying | used Disklaviers and/or used pianos in general, but after 23 years of | dealing with the tears and unmet expectations of purchasers trying to save a | little money, I would like to say a few things. | | 1. If possible, go in person to play and hear the piano before you buy it. | Not all pianos play and sound alike. Basically, what you hear and see is | what you get. If you don't like the tuning or voicing, and these things | cannot be adjusted on the spot as you watch to your liking, chances are the | situation won't be much better in your living room. If you decide to buy | the instrument, get the serial number on the purchase agreement. | | 2. If you are buying the piano from a distant vendor, and cannot evaluate it | yourself, hire a Registered Piano Technician to check it out first. Not all | piano technicians are familiar with Disklaviers, so talk about this first. | You can get a list of Registered Piano Technicians from www.ptg.org or call | Yamaha at 1-800-854-1569 to recommend someone in your area. Have the | technician supply you with the serial number. | | 3. Make sure you know exactly what features you are getting. You can always | post to this website and get an answer as to what the various models | include. Basically it comes down to how much you want to mess around trying | to do what you want to do. The oldest and most basic Disklaviers will play | the piano from floppy disks you buy from Yamaha and will play standard MIDI | files from an attached computer. Everything else is optional or is included | in a succesion of upgraded models. Extra features include whether or not | the DKV will play standard MIDI files from the floppy disk drive, what kinds | of floppy disks are useable, incremental pedaling, upgradeable flash rom, a | tone generator for Ensemble sounds, speakers, headphones, Silent System, | Smart Key and Piano Smart, a stereo audio system, and a CD player. | | 4. Make sure you are buying a piano constructed for the part of the world | you will be using it in; i.e. avoid purchasing a Gray Market piano. If you | live in North America, you don't want a piano designed soley for an Asian | climate. Most homes in North America have a forced air heating system so | the relative humidity can get as low as 10%rh in the winter. If the piano | was contructed from wood with 12% moisture content, instead of a 5% moisture | content there is a risk of the piano changing radical dimensions during | seasonal changes. This can result in the finish cracking and falling off | the cabinet, the soundboard flattening during the dry season, the pinblock | not holding the tuning pins tight enough to hold a tuning, and the piano | action being plagued by intermittent sticking keys. The electronics may | also not be UL approved, so no vendor in their right mind will risk a | product liability lawsuit to sell you replacement parts. | | 5. Remember that the lowest price is not always the best value. Buying an | instrument from a local vendor not only puts your sales taxes to work in | your own community, but gives someone else in your locality a vested | interest in your satisfaction. It is certainly easier for a vendor to sell | a piano (sometimes still in its original packing crate) far, far away if it | fell off the fork lift than to be responsible for its performance locally! | Moving companies, or their agents, are also a source of "good deals". Many | times a long-distance moving company will claim to have expertise moving | pianos only to send out an inexperienced crew. Pianos are dropped on steps | all the time and a good polyester touch-up man can hide such damage well. | | 6. How many of you are still using your IBM 8088 computers - you know, the | ones with 64k ram? Before CD players were invented? 1987 does not sound | like a very long time in the past, but in the world of electronics it is | ancient history. Neither pianos, nor the disk drives on Disklaviers, will | last forever. You should factor in the cost or repairs when buying an older | model. A new floppy drive will cost at least $300, and the retail price of | the DSR1 upgrade (tone generator, plays all standard MIDI files on both HD | and DD disks, memory) is $1295. The cost of the CD player is $1295 and it | still does not do PianoSmart. And those are just for starters. | | 7. Perhaps it is helpful to think of buying a piano/Disklavier in the same | terms as buying a car. They cost about the same amount of money. Cars all | have 4 tires, brakes and steering, and an engine, and they don't last | forever. But there is an incredible range of options available. Buying a | used Disklavier can be like buying a Mercedes with 150,000 miles on it. | Buyer Beware. | | | Carol Beigel | crbrpt@... | | | | | _________________________________________________________________ | Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online | http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 | | | | To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@... | | To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to: | disklavier-owner@... | | To reach our group's web site go to: | http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier | | Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03. It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is: | http://MuncyFamily.com | | THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? | If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. 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Message
Re: [disklavier] Buying a Used Disklaver
2003-03-17 by woof