Disklavier

I don't disagree with anything you said!  I will admit though, that I never 
met anyone who bought used to get "more" features! I think every instrument, 
new or used, should be evaluated for its value for the use it is purchased.  
I admit that my remarks are slanted to those who consider price formost; 
think that a piano delivered in the original shipping crate is better than 
one that has been "opened"; or think something that has been used well is 
"just as good as new".  I am also aware that there are many good deals out 
there, both new and used!

My comments are meant to help people think about their expectations before 
they buy. I don't think people deserve to be ripped-off even if their 
thought processes invite it. American consumer culture often feels that 
"used" is as good as new, or they are getting a better deal if they buy 
something out of a truck parked in an armory parking lot; a college or 
university 'sale' where the pianos have supposedly been maintained, rather 
than just walking into a showroom and driving a hard bargain with the 
salesperson.  Americans don't really like to haggle prices face-to-face, so 
they believe the ads and sale tickets.

Buying a used Disklavier is also like buying a used car!  I think our 
Commodore 64 still works but it's nothing like the new Evo!


Carol Beigel
crbrpt@...





>From: "woof" <woof@...>
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [disklavier] Buying a Used Disklaver
>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:41:56 -0500
>
>Carol,
>
>You know, your opinions don't seem crusty... but they are a bit
>biased in one direction.  Let me toss out a few salient, and almost
>too-obvious points for consideration on the other side... point by
>point to yours...
>
>0 - Buying used isn't always to 'save a little money'.  Sometimes one
>buys used to get more features and a better quality for the SAME
>money as one would spend new.  That is, to follow your analogy,
>one might spend $15k on a new Ford Probe base vehicle, vs spending
>the same $15k on a used Lincoln or Caddy.  In your analogy, one
>concludes your recommendation to buy the Probe.... I'd disagree.
>
>1 - See before you buy..... Absolutely!  I know when we went and
>purchased our Steinway, we spent hours playing, feeling the action,
>hearing the sounds.... making sure the highs were as bright as what
>we wanted without loosing the lows.....   Cleary, to me at least,
>buying an instrument without playing it, hearing it, seeing it first
>is un-fathomable...  When you buy used - you can arrange to see/hear
>etc.  Yet when you buy new... I keep coming across those who
>'ordered' their new grand... and '..it will be coming in x months....'
>Absolutely not!  A fine used Strad, Steinway - or Yamaha that I can
>hear, touch, feel and play wins out well over a new 'ordered' instrument.
>
>2 - Great idea - and we agree.  ALWAYS have your purchase checked
>out by a knowledgeable and experienced set of eyes and hands.  I would
>maintain this to be required be it OLD or NEW... used or factory order.
>We agree - no impact on new vs used choice.
>
>3 - Features?  Absolutely!  Again, note my comment at the top regarding
>why used....   One could find a used Grand vs a new upright....   Not only
>should you know what you are getting - but know what you need / want.
>Again, I'd posit not an impact on the new vs used choice.
>
>4 - Gray market and US targeted instrument:  Absolutely!  Once again,
>like buying a car in Mexico and bringing it back to the US... not quite!!
>What ever is bought should be purpose built...  we agree, but again, not
>a new vs used....  It is just as 'easy' to find a gray market 'new' piano 
>that
>bypassed the system.  Check those serial and references; new or used!!
>
>5 - Low price isn't always best!  -Wow, again we agree!  Your example
>of the piano in a its original packing crate is perfect!  Oh, that's a 
>reason
>not to buy new, un played, un heard, un seen....  Sorry!  One for the used 
>side!
>
>6 - 1987 Intel 8088... Well, actually, the 8088 was back earlier than
>1987.  Today, a new DD floppy can be found for under $100.  Yes, the
>DSR1 upgrade has a list price of $1295... but who pays list (I bought
>my DSR1 for $250... (oh yes, it was used... and I still have it running
>a few years later!).  Again, I'd urge see #3 above... know thy features!
>Are you looking for an electronic piano that happens to have an
>acoustic capability??? or an Acoustic that has some electronic????
>
>7 - See the top....Your analogy is great.... Buying the Mercedes with
>150,000 miles for an S type Diesel for the same price as a new
>C190??  Me, I'd opt for the S500 Diesel, after I'd seen it.
>
>BUT - I think we agree on this;  in either case, new or used, the
>dealer honesty, the dealer service capability and the availability of a 
>good top notch technician BEFORE and AFTER the sale makes or
>breaks
>a happy long term marriage.
>
>Just my thoughts - on the other side!
>
>Ed
>The Old Mercedes Guy.....
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@...>
>To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:42 PM
>Subject: [disklavier] Buying a Used Disklaver
>
>
>| I know my opinions may seem a little crusty at times when it comes to 
>buying
>| used Disklaviers and/or used pianos in general, but after 23 years of
>| dealing with the tears and unmet expectations of purchasers trying to 
>save a
>| little money, I would like to say a few things.
>|
>| 1. If possible, go in person to play and hear the piano before you buy 
>it.
>| Not all pianos play and sound alike.  Basically, what you hear and see is
>| what you get.  If you don't like the tuning or voicing, and these things
>| cannot be adjusted on the spot as you watch to your liking, chances are 
>the
>| situation won't be much better in your living room.  If you decide to buy
>| the instrument, get the serial number on the purchase agreement.
>|
>| 2. If you are buying the piano from a distant vendor, and cannot evaluate 
>it
>| yourself, hire a Registered Piano Technician to check it out first.  Not 
>all
>| piano technicians are familiar with Disklaviers, so talk about this 
>first.
>| You can get a list of Registered Piano Technicians from www.ptg.org or 
>call
>| Yamaha at 1-800-854-1569 to recommend someone in your area.  Have the
>| technician supply you with the serial number.
>|
>| 3. Make sure you know exactly what features you are getting.  You can 
>always
>| post to this website and get an answer as to what the various models
>| include.  Basically it comes down to how much you want to mess around 
>trying
>| to do what you want to do.  The oldest and most basic Disklaviers will 
>play
>| the piano from floppy disks you buy from Yamaha and will play standard 
>MIDI
>| files from an attached computer.  Everything else is optional or is 
>included
>| in a succesion of upgraded models.  Extra features include whether or not
>| the DKV will play standard MIDI files from the floppy disk drive, what 
>kinds
>| of floppy disks are useable, incremental pedaling, upgradeable flash rom, 
>a
>| tone generator for Ensemble sounds, speakers, headphones, Silent System,
>| Smart Key and Piano Smart, a stereo audio system, and a CD player.
>|
>| 4. Make sure you are buying a piano constructed for the part of the world
>| you will be using it in; i.e. avoid purchasing a Gray Market piano.  If 
>you
>| live in North America, you don't want a piano designed soley for an Asian
>| climate.  Most homes in North America have a forced air heating system so
>| the relative humidity can get as low as 10%rh in the winter. If the piano
>| was contructed from wood with 12% moisture content, instead of a 5% 
>moisture
>| content there is a risk of the piano changing radical dimensions during
>| seasonal changes.  This can result in the finish cracking and falling off
>| the cabinet, the soundboard flattening during the dry season, the 
>pinblock
>| not holding the tuning pins tight enough to hold a tuning, and the piano
>| action being plagued by intermittent sticking keys.  The electronics may
>| also not be UL approved, so no vendor in their right mind will risk a
>| product liability lawsuit to sell you replacement parts.
>|
>| 5. Remember that the lowest price is not always the best value.  Buying 
>an
>| instrument from a local vendor not only puts your sales taxes to work in
>| your own community, but gives someone else in your locality a vested
>| interest in your satisfaction.  It is certainly easier for a vendor to 
>sell
>| a piano (sometimes still in its original packing crate) far, far away if 
>it
>| fell off the fork lift than to be responsible for its performance 
>locally!
>| Moving companies, or their agents, are also a source of "good deals".  
>Many
>| times a long-distance moving company will claim to have expertise moving
>| pianos only to send out an inexperienced crew.  Pianos are dropped on 
>steps
>| all the time and a good polyester touch-up man can hide such damage well.
>|
>| 6. How many of you are still using your IBM 8088 computers - you know, 
>the
>| ones with 64k ram?  Before CD players were invented?  1987 does not sound
>| like a very long time in the past, but in the world of electronics it is
>| ancient history.  Neither pianos, nor the disk drives on Disklaviers, 
>will
>| last forever.  You should factor in the cost or repairs when buying an 
>older
>| model.  A new floppy drive will cost at least $300, and the retail price 
>of
>| the DSR1 upgrade (tone generator, plays all standard MIDI files on both 
>HD
>| and DD disks, memory) is $1295.  The cost of the CD player is $1295 and 
>it
>| still does not do PianoSmart.  And those are just for starters.
>|
>| 7. Perhaps it is helpful to think of buying a piano/Disklavier in the 
>same
>| terms as buying a car.  They cost about the same amount of money.  Cars 
>all
>| have 4 tires, brakes and steering, and an engine, and they don't last
>| forever. But there is an incredible range of  options available.  Buying 
>a
>| used Disklavier can be like buying a Mercedes with  150,000 miles on it.
>| Buyer Beware.
>|
>|
>| Carol Beigel
>| crbrpt@...
>|
>|
>|
>|
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>|
>|
>| To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>|
>| To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
>moderator, send it to:
>| disklavier-owner@...
>|
>| To reach our group's web site go to:
>| http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>|
>| Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It contains some 
>fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among
>many other things, The url is:
>| http://MuncyFamily.com
>|
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>


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