Thanks for your note, Spencer. I haven't tried your program. Please jog my memory and tell me where I can get it so I can give it a spin. When people in the group started debating, "Should I scale or should I shift velocities?", I thought it was time to say something, since to do a decent job, one may have to do more and have some understanding of what's happening. IMO, fussing with velocities is a desperate effort to make a piece listenable. I do it myself--the Oguri files, for example. I like his Satie pieces and I just don't know of any PianoSoft-quality files of Satie. Worked-over, they are far better than nothing at all, but are still short of what I'd like. When I do resort to adjusting velocities, I like to see what I'm doing. Veloset has been very useful to me in displaying an instant histogram. (Before I used Veloset, I made histograms using a klutzy method involving Cakewalk and Excel.) I do not adjust velocities so often that efficiency of the process is a big concern to me. I would still do the files one at a time. The Oguri files were all sufficiently different that the scaling percentages and offsets that I chose were somewhat different. As for the thumping problems, much of that may be due to lack of DKV pedal adjustment and calibration. It's a fussy procedure. It's my impression that most tuner/techs are comfortable working on a piano, but tend to shy away from messing with the Disklavier portion. I've have a publication from Yamaha which exhorts techs to perform, on every visit, the "Irreducible Minimum Disklavier Service", yet my tech will not. My point is: Just as you don't tune an engine with dirty spark plugs, you don't try to eliminate thumping with software when the pedal is out of adjustment. Limiting the pedal to the range of 20 to 95 has worked for me, both on continuous and on/off files. The noise elimination is not total, especially for on/off, but I believe it's tolerable. Bob Spencer Chase wrote: > Greetings Robert, > > It is interesting to hear of al the complicated ways to make velocity > adjustments to MIDI files. My program does all those various steps in > one operation and it will do it on a single file or any number of > them. No making of tables for cal scripts to reference. This is > exactly what my program does. You make the in/ out mapping chart (I > call it a preset)by adjusting 32 slide controls. These can be saved > copied or edited. Each slider covers a range of 4 velocity points and > smoothing is done between the ranges. You can set a minimum by mapping > all velocities below a certain value to that value and can do the same > with setting an upper limit. Scaling is done by mapping any range to a > higher or lower proportional value. It is just like using graphic > equalizer on an audio amp. You can do fixed offsetting in ranges or > dynamic compression or expansion or both at the same time. Scaling can > be linear or non linear so you can compensate for things like a > compressed low end while treating the middle and high end differently > or not at all. > > Veloset does some of this but you can not make fixed offsets, nor can > you make the scaling anything other than the one way (linear?)it does > it. In addition, you can only do one file at a time. > > Cakewalk requires opening each file. Working on separate ranges of > velocities involves multiple selections etc etc. > > > > > Sunday, January 4, 2004, 6:32:30 PM, you wrote: > > RW> Re adjusting velocities: > > RW> Suppose you wish to prepare one of Katsuhiro Oguri's typical files for > RW> the DKV. Take a look at the file's velocity distribution using Veloset. > RW> Suppose, for example, you find the range runs from 7 to 127 and that > RW> the occurrence of velocities between 7 and 30 is comparatively sparse. > RW> Suppose your (arbitrary) aim is to group the velocities into a range of > RW> 25 to 90. > > RW> Here is how you could proceed with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9: > > RW> 1. First, take those few notes from 7 to 30, and make them all 30. > RW> (You are not going to waste 24 steps of dynamic range on a few percent > RW> of the notes.) Using Cakewalk's filter, select the notes of velocity > RW> from 1 and 30. Now use Edit/Velocity to set them all to 30. Save and > RW> view again with Veloset. > > RW> 2. Now, the range is 30 to 127 . . . a width of 97. You want to scrunch > RW> that range of 97 to a range of 90 minus 25 . . . a width of 65. So, the > RW> percentage to scale is (90 - 25)/(127 - 30) which is 67%. Now, select > RW> all notes and use Edit/Velocity to scale by 67%. Save and check your > RW> work with Veloset. (Or, you could have just scaled using Veloset.) > RW> Note that the range is now 20 to 85. > > RW> 3. To put the range where you want it, you need to move it up 5 steps. > RW> Select all notes and use Edit/Midi Effects/Cakewalk FX/Velocity and > RW> "Change Velocities by" to add 5 to each note's velocity. Save and check > RW> with Veloset. They should be right where you wanted them. > > RW> In summary, to make linear changes, you need to use a tool that is able > RW> to both scale by a percentage and to make fixed offsets. > > RW> If you wish to get fancy, it is possible to make non-linear changes by > RW> writing a table of the desired "before" and "after" velocity values and > RW> incorporating those values in a CAL routine within Cakewalk. > > > > > RW> Walter Sharpe wrote: > >>>Spencer, >>> >>>Thanks. I was hoping your program could help with pedal thump too but I >>>guess the problem lies somewhere in the MX500 Disklavier II design, >>>construction and/or adjustment. >>> >>>I'll check out your program. The idea of reducing velocities by >>>percentages in order to retain dynamic range as suggested by PianoBench >>>seems like an improvement over my method. I am anxious to see the >>>results of his look at your program. It has to be interesting if it gets >>>a Mac person to take a look. :-) -Walt >>> >>>Spencer Chase <spencer@...> wrote: >>> >>> Greetings Walter, >>> >>> Thanks for the report on what you do to improve midi files for use on >>> the DKV. It sounds like nothing is really going to improve a thumping >>> pedal. That was my suspicion. I was just hoping to include a function >>> in my program if something could be described that would fix a problem >>> with the files. Sounds like this is not the case. >>> >>> With all the adjusting that you do to velocities you might find my >>> velocity adjusting program to be useful. You can define presets to >>> adjust minimum and maximum levels as well as adding a general increase >>> or decrease. You don't have to keep opening and closing files. Just >>> direct the program to the folder containing files and all will be >>> processed automatically. Once you figure out the presets that you >>> need, you can save them and use them over and over. >>> >>> I will be updating and improving the program as I find things that >>> need improving. You can find the latest version at: >>> >>> http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip >>> >>> Be sure to click on the help button for description as to how the >>> program works. >>> >>> Saturday, January 3, 2004, 11:04:33 PM, you wrote: >>> >>> WS> Thank you Fred, Spencer and Piano Bench, >>> >>> WS> I will respond to your various comments (copied below) >>> WS> all at once rather than separately to make it easier for you all >>> WS> to follow. Maybe some others out there will benefit from some of >>> WS> the information here. >>> >>> WS> Since my response is rather lengthy, I have included it >>> WS> in an attached zip file along with some midi files that >>> WS> demonstrate some of my points. They sound very nice too so maybe >>> WS> those who are not that interested in the discussion will at least >>> WS> enjoy the music! >>> >>> WS> -Walt >>> WS> ------------------------ >>> WS> To: "Walter Sharpe" >>> WS> From: "Spencer Chase" Add to Address Book >>> WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:09:40 -0800 >>> WS> Subject: [disklavier] pedal thumping etc. >>> WS> >>> WS> Greetings Walter and Group, >>> >>> WS> I am writing utility programs to modify MIDI files. Is there >>> WS> some agreement regarding what needs to be done to eliminate >>> WS> duplicate track data etc for problems like pedal thumping? Is this >>> WS> an issolated problem or do certain MIDI file conventions (I really >>> WS> don't understand the need for duplicate pedal information to be in >>> WS> files to begin with.) produce files that cause problems and is >>> WS> there a need for utilities to remove or shift these events? >>> >>> WS> Most of the functions in my utilities are for electronic >>> WS> piano rolls but I am hoping to add functions for use by DKV >>> WS> owners. What sorts of functions are needed. I can easily add >>> WS> functions like merging tracks. I already can do this and can fix >>> WS> resulting overlaps but have not attempted to remove redundant >>> WS> events. This is probably not difficult to do but is it necessary? >>> WS> Does the DKV care if events are duplicated? >>> WS> -------------------------- >>> WS> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com >>> WS> From: PianoBench@... Add to Address Book >>> WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:43:46 EST >>> WS> Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier >>> WS> problems (Pedal Thump Revisited) >>> >>> WS> Good morning, everyone. >>> >>> WS> Walt, I think it is time to call Yamaha Piano Service >>> WS> directly. You should not have to wait so long for your technician >>> WS> to take care of this matter. >>> >>> WS> All pianos will have some level of noise due to their >>> WS> mechanical nature. Your narrative seems to show that your >>> WS> instrument is outside of normal parameters. >>> >>> WS> Yamaha Piano Service: (800) 854-1569 between 8:30-5:00 PST. >>> WS> Push 2 at the first menu choice and 2 at the second menu choice. >>> >>> WS> I hasten to add, though, that I think the best test of your >>> WS> instrument would be to see how it plays song files that were >>> WS> recorded in realtime by a pianist on a Disklavier. The song files >>> WS> from >>> WS> www.parlorsongs.com were not recorded by a pianist on a >>> WS> Disklavier. Although they may be enjoyable, they represent a >>> WS> totally artificial creation. >>> >>> WS> Regards, >>> WS> PianoBench >>> WS> ---------------------- >>> WS> o: disklavier@yahoogroups.com >>> WS> From: "fkagel" Add to Address Book >>> WS> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:09:07 -0000 >>> WS> Subject: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier problems >>> (Pedal Thump Revisited) >>> >>> WS> Walt, >>> >>> WS> Starting with the source, the 12th St Rag Midi file is >>> WS> strictly on/off (up/down) for the sustain pedal, no ands, ifs, or >>> WS> buts. Therefore, continuous (HP/Half Pedal) is a mute issue with >>> WS> this particular file.In Cakewalk, View | Events and observe >>> WS> Controller 64 (the sustain pedal) as 127 or 0 --- right down thump >>> WS> alley. In Cakewalk or other sequencing program, you can lower the >>> WS> upper values. You did not delete all of the pedal info as you have >>> WS> indicated below. I still saw Controller 64 data. >>> >>> WS> I am not familiar with your model DKV (we have a Mark III), >>> WS> and not sure of your controller's capabilities with regard to HP >>> WS> data. What happens if you record something and observe the >>> WS> Controller values in Cakewalk? Are they not in a variable range? >>> WS> How does the thumping sound? >>> >>> WS> AFAIK, you can redirect only one MIDI channel to the DSK >>> WS> itself through the Mark III controller functions, so what you are >>> WS> doing with the midi file is just fine. I was referring to a file >>> WS> that already had Piano on Channel 1 and 2 and pedal on 3. >>> >>> WS> Fred >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WS> Do you Yahoo!? >>> WS> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 >>> >>> WS> To Post a message to the group, send it to: >>> disklavier@... >>> >>> WS> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and >>> moderator, send it to: >>> WS> disklavier-owner@... >>> >>> WS> To reach our group's web site go to: >>> WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier >>> >>> WS> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It >>> WS> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among >>> WS> many other things, The url is: >>> WS> http://MuncyFamily.com >>> >>> WS> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? >>> WS> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting >>> WS> too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery >>> WS> option instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your >>> WS> access to the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send >>> WS> a blank email to: >>> WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> WS> Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to: >>> WS> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link: >>> WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WS> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> WS> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>> WS> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/ >>> WS> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> WS> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >>> Service. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Spencer Chase mailto:spencer@... >>> 67550 Bell Springs Rd. >>> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. >>> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. >>> Spencer@... >>> http://www.spencerserolls.com >>> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm >>> (707) 984-8356 >>> >>> >>> To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@... >>> >>> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and >>> moderator, send it to: >>> disklavier-owner@... >>> >>> To reach our group's web site go to: >>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier >>> >>> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains >>> some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other >>> things, The url is: >>> http://MuncyFamily.com >>> >>> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? >>> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much >>> mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option >>> instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to >>> the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to: >>> disklavier-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to: >>> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link: >>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join >>> >>> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> To visit your group on the web, go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/ >>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>Do you Yahoo!? >>>Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 >>><http://search.yahoo.com/top2003> >>> >>>To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@... >>> >>>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and >>>moderator, send it to: >>>disklavier-owner@... >>> >>>To reach our group's web site go to: >>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier >>> >>>Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains >>>some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other >>>things, The url is: >>>http://MuncyFamily.com >>> >>>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? >>>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much >>>mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option >>>instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to >>>the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to: >>>disklavier-unsubscribe@... >>> >>>Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to: >>>disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link: >>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>Yahoo! Groups Links >>> >>> * To visit your group on the web, go to: >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/ >>> >>> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >>> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >>> >>><mailto:disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> >>> >>> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >>>Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. >>> >>> >> > > > > > -- Robert Welcyng Anchorage, Alaska
Message
Re: [disklavier] A reply to your message.
2004-01-05 by Robert Welcyng