Disklavier

I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR 
(Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which can be 
turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the 
Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my 
Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the notes/events of 
other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work, especially 
with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ

Your Advanced Operation Manual has the answer in the section "Using the 
Disklavier Piano in a MIDI Setup".  Basically, feed the DKV with 
sequencing computer.  Feed the "other MIDI devices" from the DKV's MIDI 
OUT port.

sjhart110110 wrote:
> I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR 
> (Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which can be 
> turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the 
> Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my 
> Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the notes/events of 
> other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work, especially 
> with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

> sjhart110110 wrote:

> > I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR
> > (Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which
can be
> > turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the
> > Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my
> > Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the
notes/events of
> > other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work,
especially
> > with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ

From: "Robert Welcyng" <rwelcyng@...>

> Your Advanced Operation Manual has the answer in the section
"Using the
> Disklavier Piano in a MIDI Setup".  Basically, feed the DKV
with
> sequencing computer.  Feed the "other MIDI devices" from the
DKV's MIDI
> OUT port.

Hi,

Of course this doesn't help us others who have *multi-port MIDI
interfaces to contend with...

(*MIDI interfaces with more than one MIDI port to which we have
several other MIDI items connected to)


Danny

There are other options.  In your sequencing file, you can slide all 
tracks but the DKV's by a half-second.

Danny wrote:
>>sjhart110110 wrote:
> 
> 
>>>I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR
>>>(Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which
>>
> can be
> 
>>>turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the
>>>Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my
>>>Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the
>>
> notes/events of
> 
>>>other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work,
>>
> especially
> 
>>>with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ
>>
> 
> From: "Robert Welcyng" <rwelcyng@...>
> 
>>Your Advanced Operation Manual has the answer in the section
> 
> "Using the
> 
>>Disklavier Piano in a MIDI Setup".  Basically, feed the DKV
> 
> with
> 
>>sequencing computer.  Feed the "other MIDI devices" from the
> 
> DKV's MIDI
> 
>>OUT port.
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Of course this doesn't help us others who have *multi-port MIDI
> interfaces to contend with...
> 
> (*MIDI interfaces with more than one MIDI port to which we have
> several other MIDI items connected to)
> 
> 
> Danny
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

How do you slide tracks by .5 second?  Doesn't this depend on tempo, 
etc.?

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Robert Welcyng <rwelcyng@a...> 
wrote:
> There are other options.  In your sequencing file, you can slide 
all 
> tracks but the DKV's by a half-second.
> 
> Danny wrote:
> >>sjhart110110 wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>>I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR
> >>>(Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which
> >>
> > can be
> > 
> >>>turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the
> >>>Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my
> >>>Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the
> >>
> > notes/events of
> > 
> >>>other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work,
> >>
> > especially
> > 
> >>>with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ
> >>
> > 
> > From: "Robert Welcyng" <rwelcyng@a...>
> > 
> >>Your Advanced Operation Manual has the answer in the section
> > 
> > "Using the
> > 
> >>Disklavier Piano in a MIDI Setup".  Basically, feed the DKV
> > 
> > with
> > 
> >>sequencing computer.  Feed the "other MIDI devices" from the
> > 
> > DKV's MIDI
> > 
> >>OUT port.
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Of course this doesn't help us others who have *multi-port MIDI
> > interfaces to contend with...
> > 
> > (*MIDI interfaces with more than one MIDI port to which we have
> > several other MIDI items connected to)
> > 
> > 
> > Danny
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@Y...
> > 
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@Y...
> > 
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > 
> > Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It 
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among 
many other things, The url is:
> > http://MuncyFamily.com 
> > 
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access 
to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank 
email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@y... 
> > 
> > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@e... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Robert Welcyng
> Anchorage, Alaska

I happen to use Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, but other sequencer/editors should 
be capable of this operation.  Yes, you will first need to settle on a 
single tempo and keep it fixed throughout the piece.  In Cakewalk, to 
slide a track, you simply select the track, cut it, and paste it a 
half-second later.

You may have to do a little figuring to know where to paste the track 
for a half-second delay.  Say the song is 4/4 time at 80 quarter notes 
per minute. That's 1-1/3 beats per sec. To slide 1/2 second, you'll need 
to delay the track by 2/3 of a beat.  Say you have the resolution set 
for 96 ticks per beat, you will offset by 64 ticks.

There is no free lunch, is there? It might be easier, afterall, to find 
a way to reconfigure your MIDI setup to feed the other devices from the 
DKV's MIDI out port.

sjhart110110 wrote:
> How do you slide tracks by .5 second?  Doesn't this depend on tempo, 
> etc.?
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Robert Welcyng <rwelcyng@a...> 
> wrote:
> 
>>There are other options.  In your sequencing file, you can slide 
> 
> all 
> 
>>tracks but the DKV's by a half-second.
>>
>>Danny wrote:
>>
>>>>sjhart110110 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR
>>>>>(Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which
>>>>
>>>can be
>>>
>>>
>>>>>turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the
>>>>>Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my
>>>>>Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the
>>>>
>>>notes/events of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work,
>>>>
>>>especially
>>>
>>>
>>>>>with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ
>>>>
>>>From: "Robert Welcyng" <rwelcyng@a...>
>>>
>>>>Your Advanced Operation Manual has the answer in the section
>>>
>>>"Using the
>>>
>>>
>>>>Disklavier Piano in a MIDI Setup".  Basically, feed the DKV
>>>
>>>with
>>>
>>>
>>>>sequencing computer.  Feed the "other MIDI devices" from the
>>>
>>>DKV's MIDI
>>>
>>>
>>>>OUT port.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>Of course this doesn't help us others who have *multi-port MIDI
>>>interfaces to contend with...
>>>
>>>(*MIDI interfaces with more than one MIDI port to which we have
>>>several other MIDI items connected to)
>>>
>>>
>>>Danny
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@Y...
>>>
>>>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
>>
> moderator, send it to:
> 
>>>disklavier-owner@Y...
>>>
>>>To reach our group's web site go to:
>>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>>
>>>Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It 
>>
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among 
> many other things, The url is:
> 
>>>http://MuncyFamily.com 
>>>
>>>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
>>
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access 
> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank 
> email to:
> 
>>>disklavier-unsubscribe@y... 
>>>
>>>Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>>>disklavier-subscribe@e... or give them this link:
>>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>>> 
>>>
>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>>>
>>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Robert Welcyng
>>Anchorage, Alaska
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Greetings Robert and group,

I have a utility that I wrote that will shift notes of any selected
range by any amount desired. Will do controllers too. The program will
also kill (or when I write that routine) or set it to whatever you
want or the first one in the file. Unfortunately, the utility requires
a particular setup to run (perl runtime environment) so it is not
trivial to share with others. The plus it that it will do batches of
files while you do other things. I just processed 2468 files and it
took 38 minutes.

If anyone wants to have a bunch of files converted in this or just
about any other way that can be programmed, I am still having fun
doing this sort of programming (it is pretty new to me) and am willing
to give almost anything a try until it proves to be too much work.

Tuesday, October 14, 2003, 2:12:19 PM, you wrote:

RW> I happen to use Cakewalk Pro Audio 9, but other sequencer/editors should
RW> be capable of this operation.\ufffd Yes, you will first need to settle on a
RW> single tempo and keep it fixed throughout the piece.\ufffd In Cakewalk, to
RW> slide a track, you simply select the track, cut it, and paste it a
RW> half-second later.

RW> You may have to do a little figuring to know where to paste the track
RW> for a half-second delay.\ufffd Say the song is 4/4 time at 80 quarter notes
RW> per minute. That's 1-1/3 beats per sec. To slide 1/2 second, you'll need
RW> to delay the track by 2/3 of a beat.\ufffd Say you have the resolution set
RW> for 96 ticks per beat, you will offset by 64 ticks.

RW> There is no free lunch, is there? It might be easier, afterall, to find
RW> a way to reconfigure your MIDI setup to feed the other devices from the
RW> DKV's MIDI out port.

RW> sjhart110110 wrote:
>> How do you slide tracks by .5 second?\ufffd Doesn't this depend on tempo,
>> etc.?
>> 
>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Robert Welcyng <rwelcyng@a...> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>There are other options.\ufffd In your sequencing file, you can slide 
>> 
>> all 
>> 
>>>tracks but the DKV's by a half-second.
>>>
>>>Danny wrote:
>>>
>>>>>sjhart110110 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR
>>>>>>(Cakewalk).\ufffd I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which
>>>>>
>>>>can be
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>turned on/off).\ufffd However, turning it off seems to make the
>>>>>>Disklavier miss notes, etc.\ufffd What is the best way to sync my
>>>>>>Disklavier with other midi devices?\ufffd I can move the
>>>>>
>>>>notes/events of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work,
>>>>>
>>>>especially
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>with tempo changes.\ufffd Help!\ufffd SJ
>>>>>
>>>>From: "Robert Welcyng" <rwelcyng@a...>
>>>>
>>>>>Your Advanced Operation Manual has the answer in the section
>>>>
>>>>"Using the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Disklavier Piano in a MIDI Setup".\ufffd Basically, feed the DKV
>>>>
>>>>with
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>sequencing computer.\ufffd Feed the "other MIDI devices" from the
>>>>
>>>>DKV's MIDI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>OUT port.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>Of course this doesn't help us others who have *multi-port MIDI
>>>>interfaces to contend with...
>>>>
>>>>(*MIDI interfaces with more than one MIDI port to which we have
>>>>several other MIDI items connected to)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Danny
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>To Post a message to the group, send it to:\ufffd\ufffd disklavier@Y...
>>>>
>>>>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
>>>
>> moderator, send it to:
>> 
>>>>disklavier-owner@Y...
>>>>
>>>>To reach our group's web site go to:
>>>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>>>
>>>>Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.\ufffd It 
>>>
>> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among 
>> many other things, The url is:
>> 
>>>>http://MuncyFamily.com
>>>>
>>>>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>>>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
>>>
>> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
>> instead.\ufffd That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access 
>> to the group.\ufffd If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank 
>> email to:
>> 
>>>>disklavier-unsubscribe@y... 
>>>>
>>>>Know someone who wants to join?\ufffd Have them send a blank email to:
>>>>disklavier-subscribe@e... or give them this link:
>>>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
>>>
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>Robert Welcyng
>>>Anchorage, Alaska
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To Post a message to the group, send it to:\ufffd\ufffd disklavier@...
>> 
>> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
>> disklavier-owner@...
>> 
>> To reach our group's web site go to:
>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>> 
>> Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.\ufffd It
>> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among
>> many other things, The url is:
>> http://MuncyFamily.com
>> 
>> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
>> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery
>> option instead.\ufffd That will fix the problem, while maintaining your
>> access to the group.\ufffd If you insist on leaving us completely send a
>> blank email to:
>> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
>> 
>> Know someone who wants to join?\ufffd Have them send a blank email to:
>> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>\ufffd 
>> 
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> 
>> 
>> 





-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Thanks for the info!  I wish this device wasn't SO expensive...

By the way, you really are doing everyone a great service by 
answering so many questions, etc.  Just wanted to say THANK YOU.  SJ

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, PianoBench@a... wrote:
> Good afternoon, everyone.
> 
> 
> > I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR
> > (Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which can 
be
> > turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the
> > Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my
> > Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the notes/events 
of
> > other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work, 
especially
> > with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ
> > 
> 
> I don't think I mentioned this: MIDI Solutions has a programmable 
delay box. 

> You can find it at:
> 
> http://www.midisolutions.com/products.htm
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench

While I'm thanking... Thank you Carol also!  You also are a really 
big help in this group forum.  SJ

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "sjhart110110" <sjhart110@h...> 
wrote:
> Thanks for the info!  I wish this device wasn't SO expensive...
> 
> By the way, you really are doing everyone a great service by 
> answering so many questions, etc.  Just wanted to say THANK YOU.  
SJ
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, PianoBench@a... wrote:
> > Good afternoon, everyone.
> > 
> > 
> > > I am driving my DC3A as well as other midi devices from SONAR
> > > (Cakewalk).  I understand that there is a 500ms delay (which 
can 
> be
> > > turned on/off).  However, turning it off seems to make the
> > > Disklavier miss notes, etc.  What is the best way to sync my
> > > Disklavier with other midi devices?  I can move the 
notes/events 
> of
> > > other midi devices, but this doesn't always seem to work, 
> especially
> > > with tempo changes.  Help!  SJ
> > > 
> > 
> > I don't think I mentioned this: MIDI Solutions has a 
programmable 

> delay box. 
> > You can find it at:
> > 
> > http://www.midisolutions.com/products.htm
> > 
> > Regards,
> > PianoBench

Greetings PianoBench,

My velocity modifying program is written in perl so it should be
possible to make a mac version of it. If someone is good with macs and
wants to try getting this to work, let me know. The easy way is to
install perl on the mac and run the script. It would make sense to try
this first with someone who can install the necessary software and
give it a try. It this works I might be able to make an exe that works
on all macs.

Sunday, January 4, 2004, 11:13:33 AM, you wrote:

Pac> Good afternoon, everyone.

Pac> Thanks for this info and the availability of your program,
Pac> Spencer. As a Mac guy, I am usually rather slow to get around to
Pac> looking at Windows software, but your description is intriguing
Pac> and I intend to give it a try.

Pac> Regards, PianoBench
-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Re adjusting velocities:

Suppose you wish to prepare one of Katsuhiro Oguri's typical files for 
the DKV.  Take a look at the file's velocity distribution using Veloset. 
  Suppose, for example, you find the range runs from 7 to 127 and that 
the occurrence of velocities between 7 and 30 is comparatively sparse. 
Suppose your (arbitrary) aim is to group the velocities into a range of 
25 to 90.

Here is how you could proceed with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9:

1.  First, take those few notes from 7 to 30, and make them all 30. 
(You are not going to waste 24 steps of dynamic range on a few percent 
of the notes.)  Using Cakewalk's filter, select the notes of velocity 
from 1 and 30.  Now use Edit/Velocity to set them all to 30.  Save and 
view again with Veloset.

2. Now, the range is 30 to 127 . . . a width of 97.  You want to scrunch 
that range of 97 to a range of 90 minus 25 . . . a width of 65.  So, the 
percentage to scale is (90 - 25)/(127 - 30) which is 67%.  Now, select 
all notes and use Edit/Velocity to scale by 67%.  Save and check your 
work with Veloset.  (Or, you could have just scaled using Veloset.) 
Note that the range is now 20 to 85.

3. To put the range where you want it, you need to move it up 5 steps. 
Select all notes and use Edit/Midi Effects/Cakewalk FX/Velocity and 
"Change Velocities by" to add 5 to each note's velocity.  Save and check 
with Veloset.  They should be right where you wanted them.

In summary, to make linear changes, you need to use a tool that is able 
to both scale by a percentage and to make fixed offsets.

If you wish to get fancy, it is possible to make non-linear changes by 
writing a table of the desired "before" and "after" velocity values and 
incorporating those values in a CAL routine within Cakewalk.




Walter Sharpe wrote:
> Spencer,
>  
> Thanks. I was hoping your program could help with pedal thump too but I 
> guess the problem lies somewhere in the MX500 Disklavier II design, 
> construction and/or adjustment.
>  
> I'll check out your program. The idea of reducing velocities by 
> percentages in order to retain dynamic range as suggested by PianoBench 
> seems like an improvement over my method. I am anxious to see the 
> results of his look at your program. It has to be interesting if it gets 
> a Mac person to take a look. :-)  -Walt
> 
> Spencer Chase <spencer@...> wrote:
> 
>     Greetings Walter,
> 
>     Thanks for the report on what you do to improve midi files for use on
>     the DKV. It sounds like nothing is really going to improve a thumping
>     pedal. That was my suspicion. I was just hoping to include a function
>     in my program if something could be described that would fix a problem
>     with the files. Sounds like this is not the case.
> 
>     With all the adjusting that you do to velocities you might find my
>     velocity adjusting program to be useful. You can define presets to
>     adjust minimum and maximum levels as well as adding a general increase
>     or decrease. You don't have to keep opening and closing files. Just
>     direct the program to the folder containing files and all will be
>     processed automatically. Once you figure out the presets that you
>     need, you can save them and use them over and over.
> 
>     I will be updating and improving the program as I find things that
>     need improving. You can find the latest version at:
> 
>     http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip
> 
>     Be sure to click on the help button for description as to how the
>     program works.
> 
>     Saturday, January 3, 2004, 11:04:33 PM, you wrote:
> 
>     WS> Thank you Fred, Spencer and Piano Bench,
> 
>     WS>      I will respond to your various comments (copied below)
>     WS> all at once rather than separately to make it easier for you all
>     WS> to follow. Maybe some others out there will benefit from some of
>     WS> the information here.
> 
>     WS>      Since my response is rather lengthy, I have included it
>     WS> in an attached zip file along with some midi files that
>     WS> demonstrate some of my points. They sound very nice too so maybe
>     WS> those who are not that interested in the discussion will at least
>     WS> enjoy the music!
> 
>     WS> -Walt
>     WS> ------------------------
>     WS> To: "Walter Sharpe"
>     WS> From: "Spencer Chase"   Add to Address Book
>     WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:09:40 -0800 
>     WS> Subject: [disklavier] pedal thumping etc.     
>     WS>  
>     WS> Greetings Walter and Group,
> 
>     WS> I am writing utility programs to modify MIDI files. Is there
>     WS> some agreement regarding what needs to be done to eliminate
>     WS> duplicate track data etc for problems like pedal thumping? Is this
>     WS> an issolated problem or do certain MIDI file conventions (I really
>     WS> don't understand the need for duplicate pedal information to be in
>     WS> files to begin with.) produce files that cause problems and is
>     WS> there a need for utilities to remove or shift these events?
> 
>     WS> Most of the functions in my utilities are for electronic
>     WS> piano rolls but I am hoping to add functions for use by DKV
>     WS> owners. What sorts of functions are needed. I can easily add
>     WS> functions like merging tracks. I already can do this and can fix
>     WS> resulting overlaps but have not attempted to remove redundant
>     WS> events. This is probably not difficult to do but is it necessary?
>     WS> Does the DKV care if events are duplicated?
>     WS> --------------------------
>     WS> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>     WS> From: PianoBench@...  Add to Address Book
>     WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:43:46 EST
>     WS> Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier
>     WS> problems (Pedal Thump Revisited)
> 
>     WS> Good morning, everyone.
> 
>     WS> Walt, I think it is time to call Yamaha Piano Service
>     WS> directly. You should not have to wait so long for your technician
>     WS> to take care of this matter.
> 
>     WS> All pianos will have some level of noise due to their
>     WS> mechanical nature. Your narrative seems to show that your
>     WS> instrument is outside of normal parameters.
> 
>     WS> Yamaha Piano Service: (800) 854-1569 between 8:30-5:00 PST.
>     WS> Push 2 at the first menu choice and 2 at the second menu choice.
> 
>     WS> I hasten to add, though, that I think the best test of your
>     WS> instrument would be to see how it plays song files that were
>     WS> recorded in realtime by a pianist on a Disklavier. The song files
>     WS> from
>     WS> www.parlorsongs.com were not recorded by a pianist on a
>     WS> Disklavier. Although they may be enjoyable, they represent a
>     WS> totally artificial creation.
> 
>     WS> Regards,
>     WS> PianoBench
>     WS> ----------------------
>     WS> o: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>     WS> From: "fkagel"   Add to Address Book
>     WS> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:09:07 -0000
>     WS> Subject: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier problems
>     (Pedal Thump Revisited)
> 
>     WS> Walt,
> 
>     WS> Starting with the source, the 12th St Rag Midi file is
>     WS> strictly on/off (up/down) for the sustain pedal, no ands, ifs, or
>     WS> buts. Therefore, continuous (HP/Half Pedal) is a mute issue with
>     WS> this particular file.In Cakewalk, View | Events and observe
>     WS> Controller 64 (the sustain pedal) as 127 or 0 --- right down thump
>     WS> alley. In Cakewalk or other sequencing program, you can lower the
>     WS> upper values. You did not delete all of the pedal info as you have
>     WS> indicated below. I still saw Controller 64 data.
> 
>     WS> I am not familiar with your model DKV (we have a Mark III),
>     WS> and not sure of your controller's capabilities with regard to HP
>     WS> data. What happens if you record something and observe the
>     WS> Controller values in Cakewalk? Are they not in a variable range?
>     WS> How does the thumping sound?
> 
>     WS> AFAIK, you can redirect only one MIDI channel to the DSK
>     WS> itself through the Mark III controller functions, so what you are
>     WS> doing with the midi file is just fine. I was referring to a file
>     WS> that already had Piano on Channel 1 and 2 and pedal on 3.
> 
>     WS> Fred
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     WS> Do you Yahoo!?
>     WS> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
> 
>     WS> To Post a message to the group, send it to:  
>     disklavier@...
> 
>     WS> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>     moderator, send it to:
>     WS> disklavier-owner@...
> 
>     WS> To reach our group's web site go to:
>     WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
>     WS> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
>     WS> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among
>     WS> many other things, The url is:
>     WS> http://MuncyFamily.com
> 
>     WS> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>     WS> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting
>     WS> too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery
>     WS> option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your
>     WS> access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send
>     WS> a blank email to:
>     WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> 
>     WS> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>     WS> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>     WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     WS> Yahoo! Groups Links
>     WS> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     WS> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>     WS>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>     WS>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>     Service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     -- 
>     Best regards,
>     Spencer Chase mailto:spencer@...
>     67550 Bell Springs Rd.
>     Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>     Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>     Spencer@...
>     http://www.spencerserolls.com
>     http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
>     (707) 984-8356
> 
> 
>     To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
> 
>     To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>     moderator, send it to:
>     disklavier-owner@...
> 
>     To reach our group's web site go to:
>     http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
>     Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains
>     some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
>     things, The url is:
>     http://MuncyFamily.com
> 
>     THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>     If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
>     mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
>     instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to
>     the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
>     disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> 
>     Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
>     disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>     http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> 
> 
>     Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
> 
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> 
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 
> <http://search.yahoo.com/top2003>
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains 
> some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other 
> things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much 
> mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to 
> the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>        
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>        
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
> 
> 


-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Greetings Robert,

It is interesting to hear of al the complicated ways to make velocity
adjustments to MIDI files. My program does all those various steps in
one operation and it will do it on a single file or any number of
them. No making of tables for cal scripts to reference. This is
exactly what my program does. You make the in/ out mapping chart (I
call it a preset)by adjusting 32 slide controls. These can be saved
copied or edited. Each slider covers a range of 4 velocity points and
smoothing is done between the ranges. You can set a minimum by mapping
all velocities below a certain value to that value and can do the same
with setting an upper limit. Scaling is done by mapping any range to a
higher or lower proportional value. It is just like using graphic
equalizer on an audio amp.  You can do fixed offsetting in ranges or
dynamic compression or expansion or both at the same time. Scaling can
be linear or non linear so you can compensate for things like a
compressed low end while treating the middle and high end differently
or not at all.

Veloset does some of this but you can not make fixed offsets, nor can
you make the scaling anything other than the one way (linear?)it does
it. In addition, you can only do one file at a time.

Cakewalk requires opening each file.  Working on separate ranges of
velocities involves multiple selections etc etc.




Sunday, January 4, 2004, 6:32:30 PM, you wrote:

RW> Re adjusting velocities:

RW> Suppose you wish to prepare one of Katsuhiro Oguri's typical files for
RW> the DKV.\ufffd Take a look at the file's velocity distribution using Veloset.
RW> \ufffd Suppose, for example, you find the range runs from 7 to 127 and that
RW> the occurrence of velocities between 7 and 30 is comparatively sparse.
RW> Suppose your (arbitrary) aim is to group the velocities into a range of
RW> 25 to 90.

RW> Here is how you could proceed with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9:

RW> 1.\ufffd First, take those few notes from 7 to 30, and make them all 30.
RW> (You are not going to waste 24 steps of dynamic range on a few percent
RW> of the notes.)\ufffd Using Cakewalk's filter, select the notes of velocity
RW> from 1 and 30.\ufffd Now use Edit/Velocity to set them all to 30.\ufffd Save and
RW> view again with Veloset.

RW> 2. Now, the range is 30 to 127 . . . a width of 97.\ufffd You want to scrunch
RW> that range of 97 to a range of 90 minus 25 . . . a width of 65.\ufffd So, the
RW> percentage to scale is (90 - 25)/(127 - 30) which is 67%.\ufffd Now, select
RW> all notes and use Edit/Velocity to scale by 67%.\ufffd Save and check your
RW> work with Veloset.\ufffd (Or, you could have just scaled using Veloset.)
RW> Note that the range is now 20 to 85.

RW> 3. To put the range where you want it, you need to move it up 5 steps.
RW> Select all notes and use Edit/Midi Effects/Cakewalk FX/Velocity and
RW> "Change Velocities by" to add 5 to each note's velocity.\ufffd Save and check
RW> with Veloset.\ufffd They should be right where you wanted them.

RW> In summary, to make linear changes, you need to use a tool that is able
RW> to both scale by a percentage and to make fixed offsets.

RW> If you wish to get fancy, it is possible to make non-linear changes by
RW> writing a table of the desired "before" and "after" velocity values and
RW> incorporating those values in a CAL routine within Cakewalk.




RW> Walter Sharpe wrote:
>> Spencer,
>>\ufffd 
>> Thanks. I was hoping your program could help with pedal thump too but I
>> guess the problem lies somewhere in the MX500 Disklavier II design,
>> construction and/or adjustment.
>>\ufffd 
>> I'll check out your program. The idea of reducing velocities by 
>> percentages in order to retain dynamic range as suggested by PianoBench
>> seems like an improvement over my method. I am anxious to see the 
>> results of his look at your program. It has to be interesting if it gets
>> a Mac person to take a look. :-)\ufffd -Walt
>> 
>> Spencer Chase <spencer@...> wrote:
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Greetings Walter,
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Thanks for the report on what you do to improve midi files for use on
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd the DKV. It sounds like nothing is really going to improve a thumping
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd pedal. That was my suspicion. I was just hoping to include a function
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd in my program if something could be described that would fix a problem
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd with the files. Sounds like this is not the case.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd With all the adjusting that you do to velocities you might find my
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd velocity adjusting program to be useful. You can define presets to
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd adjust minimum and maximum levels as well as adding a general increase
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd or decrease. You don't have to keep opening and closing files. Just
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd direct the program to the folder containing files and all will be
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd processed automatically. Once you figure out the presets that you
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd need, you can save them and use them over and over.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd I will be updating and improving the program as I find things that
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd need improving. You can find the latest version at:
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Be sure to click on the help button for description as to how the
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd program works.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Saturday, January 3, 2004, 11:04:33 PM, you wrote:
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Thank you Fred, Spencer and Piano Bench,
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd I will respond to your various comments (copied below)
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> all at once rather than separately to make it easier for you all
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> to follow. Maybe some others out there will benefit from some of
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> the information here.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Since my response is rather lengthy, I have included it
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> in an attached zip file along with some midi files that
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> demonstrate some of my points. They sound very nice too so maybe
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> those who are not that interested in the discussion will at least
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> enjoy the music!
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> -Walt
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> ------------------------
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> To: "Walter Sharpe"
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> From: "Spencer Chase"\ufffd\ufffd Add to Address Book
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:09:40 -0800 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Subject: [disklavier] pedal thumping etc.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS>\ufffd 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Greetings Walter and Group,
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> I am writing utility programs to modify MIDI files. Is there
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> some agreement regarding what needs to be done to eliminate
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> duplicate track data etc for problems like pedal thumping? Is this
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> an issolated problem or do certain MIDI file conventions (I really
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> don't understand the need for duplicate pedal information to be in
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> files to begin with.) produce files that cause problems and is
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> there a need for utilities to remove or shift these events?
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Most of the functions in my utilities are for electronic
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> piano rolls but I am hoping to add functions for use by DKV
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> owners. What sorts of functions are needed. I can easily add
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> functions like merging tracks. I already can do this and can fix
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> resulting overlaps but have not attempted to remove redundant
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> events. This is probably not difficult to do but is it necessary?
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Does the DKV care if events are duplicated?
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> --------------------------
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> From: PianoBench@...\ufffd Add to Address Book
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:43:46 EST
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> problems (Pedal Thump Revisited)
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Good morning, everyone.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Walt, I think it is time to call Yamaha Piano Service
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> directly. You should not have to wait so long for your technician
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> to take care of this matter.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> All pianos will have some level of noise due to their
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> mechanical nature. Your narrative seems to show that your
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> instrument is outside of normal parameters.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Yamaha Piano Service: (800) 854-1569 between 8:30-5:00 PST.
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Push 2 at the first menu choice and 2 at the second menu choice.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> I hasten to add, though, that I think the best test of your
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> instrument would be to see how it plays song files that were
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> recorded in realtime by a pianist on a Disklavier. The song files
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> from
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> www.parlorsongs.com were not recorded by a pianist on a
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Disklavier. Although they may be enjoyable, they represent a
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> totally artificial creation.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Regards,
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> PianoBench
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> ----------------------
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> o: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> From: "fkagel"\ufffd\ufffd Add to Address Book
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:09:07 -0000
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Subject: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier problems
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd (Pedal Thump Revisited)
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Walt,
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Starting with the source, the 12th St Rag Midi file is
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> strictly on/off (up/down) for the sustain pedal, no ands, ifs, or
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> buts. Therefore, continuous (HP/Half Pedal) is a mute issue with
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> this particular file.In Cakewalk, View | Events and observe
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Controller 64 (the sustain pedal) as 127 or 0 --- right down thump
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> alley. In Cakewalk or other sequencing program, you can lower the
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> upper values. You did not delete all of the pedal info as you have
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> indicated below. I still saw Controller 64 data.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> I am not familiar with your model DKV (we have a Mark III),
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> and not sure of your controller's capabilities with regard to HP
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> data. What happens if you record something and observe the
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Controller values in Cakewalk? Are they not in a variable range?
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> How does the thumping sound?
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> AFAIK, you can redirect only one MIDI channel to the DSK
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> itself through the Mark III controller functions, so what you are
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> doing with the midi file is just fine. I was referring to a file
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> that already had Piano on Channel 1 and 2 and pedal on 3.
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Fred
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Do you Yahoo!?
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> To Post a message to the group, send it to:\ufffd 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd disklavier@...
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd moderator, send it to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> disklavier-owner@...
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> To reach our group's web site go to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.\ufffd It
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> many other things, The url is:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> http://MuncyFamily.com
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> option instead.\ufffd That will fix the problem, while maintaining your
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> access to the group.\ufffd If you insist on leaving us completely send
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> a blank email to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Know someone who wants to join?\ufffd Have them send a blank email to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS>\ufffd To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Service.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd -- 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Best regards,
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Spencer Chase mailto:spencer@...
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Spencer@...
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd (707) 984-8356
>> 
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd moderator, send it to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd disklavier-owner@...
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd To reach our group's web site go to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd things, The url is:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd http://MuncyFamily.com
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Yahoo! Groups Links
>> 
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>> 
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>> To Post a message to the group, send it to:\ufffd\ufffd disklavier@...
>> 
>> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
>> moderator, send it to:
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>> 
>> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.\ufffd It contains
>> some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
>> things, The url is:
>> http://MuncyFamily.com
>> 
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-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Bob,

I don't have Cakewalk Pro. I only have Cakewalk Home Studio. The documentation is a little light and I could not find the kind of function we are discussing in Help. However, your excellent suggestions lead me to discovery of |Edit|Midi Effects|Cakewalk FX|MusicLab VeloMaster Lite and |Edit|Midi Effects|Cakewalk FX|Velocity...|Scale Velocities to ... % of their current value and Limit range from ... to ... This looks like the place to play with velocities by % and limits as we have been discussing! Thanks!
-Walt
--------------------
Robert Welcyng <rwelcyng@...> wrote:

Suppose you wish to prepare one of Katsuhiro Oguri's typical files for 
the DKV.  Take a look at the file's velocity distribution using Veloset. 
  Suppose, for example, you find the range runs from 7 to 127 and that 
the occurrence of velocities between 7 and 30 is comparatively sparse. 
Suppose your (arbitrary) aim is to group the velocities into a range of 
25 to 90.

Here is how you could proceed with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9:

1.  First, take those few notes from 7 to 30, and make them all 30. 
(You are not going to waste 24 steps of dynamic range on a few percent 
of the notes.)  Using Cakewalk's filter, select the notes of velocity 
from 1 and 30.  Now use Edit/Velocity to set them all to 30.  Save and 
view again with Veloset.

2. Now, the range is 30 to 127 . . . a width of 97.  You want to scrunch 
that range of 97 to a range of 90 minus 25 . . . a width of 65.  So, the 
percentage to scale is (90 - 25)/(127 - 30) which is 67%.  Now, select 
all notes and use Edit/Velocity to scale by 67%.  Save and check your 
work with Veloset.  (Or, you could have just scaled using Veloset.) 
Note that the range is now 20 to 85.

3. To put the range where you want it, you need to move it up 5 steps. 
Select all notes and use Edit/Midi Effects/Cakewalk FX/Velocity and 
"Change Velocities by" to add 5 to each note's velocity.  Save and check 
with Veloset.  They should be right where you wanted them.

In summary, to make linear changes, you need to use a tool that is able 
to both scale by a percentage and to make fixed offsets.

If you wish to get fancy, it is possible to make non-linear changes by 
writing a table of the desired "before" and "after" velocity values and 
incorporating those values in a CAL routine within Cakewalk.




---------------------------------
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Thanks for your note, Spencer.

I haven't tried your program.  Please jog my memory and tell me where I 
can get it so I can give it a spin.

When people in the group started debating, "Should I scale or should I 
shift velocities?", I thought it was time to say something, since to do 
a decent job, one may have to do more and have some understanding of 
what's happening.

IMO, fussing with velocities is a desperate effort to make a piece 
listenable.  I do it myself--the Oguri files, for example.  I like his 
Satie pieces and I just don't know of any PianoSoft-quality files of 
Satie.  Worked-over, they are far better than nothing at all, but are 
still short of what I'd like.

When I do resort to adjusting velocities, I like to see what I'm doing. 
  Veloset has been very useful to me in displaying an instant histogram. 
  (Before I used Veloset, I made histograms using a klutzy method 
involving Cakewalk and Excel.)

I do not adjust velocities so often that efficiency of the process is a 
big concern to me.  I would still do the files one at a time.  The Oguri 
files were all sufficiently different that the scaling percentages and 
offsets that I chose were somewhat different.

As for the thumping problems, much of that may be due to lack of DKV 
pedal adjustment and calibration.  It's a fussy procedure.  It's my 
impression that most tuner/techs are comfortable working on a piano, but 
tend to shy away from messing with the Disklavier portion.  I've have a 
publication from Yamaha which exhorts techs to perform, on every visit, 
the "Irreducible Minimum Disklavier Service", yet my tech will not.

My point is: Just as you don't tune an engine with dirty spark plugs, 
you don't try to eliminate thumping with software when the pedal is out 
of adjustment.

Limiting the pedal to the range of 20 to 95 has worked for me, both on 
continuous and on/off files.  The noise elimination is not total, 
especially for on/off, but I believe it's tolerable.

Bob

Spencer Chase wrote:
> Greetings Robert,
> 
> It is interesting to hear of al the complicated ways to make velocity
> adjustments to MIDI files. My program does all those various steps in
> one operation and it will do it on a single file or any number of
> them. No making of tables for cal scripts to reference. This is
> exactly what my program does. You make the in/ out mapping chart (I
> call it a preset)by adjusting 32 slide controls. These can be saved
> copied or edited. Each slider covers a range of 4 velocity points and
> smoothing is done between the ranges. You can set a minimum by mapping
> all velocities below a certain value to that value and can do the same
> with setting an upper limit. Scaling is done by mapping any range to a
> higher or lower proportional value. It is just like using graphic
> equalizer on an audio amp.  You can do fixed offsetting in ranges or
> dynamic compression or expansion or both at the same time. Scaling can
> be linear or non linear so you can compensate for things like a
> compressed low end while treating the middle and high end differently
> or not at all.
> 
> Veloset does some of this but you can not make fixed offsets, nor can
> you make the scaling anything other than the one way (linear?)it does
> it. In addition, you can only do one file at a time.
> 
> Cakewalk requires opening each file.  Working on separate ranges of
> velocities involves multiple selections etc etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sunday, January 4, 2004, 6:32:30 PM, you wrote:
> 
> RW> Re adjusting velocities:
> 
> RW> Suppose you wish to prepare one of Katsuhiro Oguri's typical files for
> RW> the DKV.  Take a look at the file's velocity distribution using Veloset.
> RW>   Suppose, for example, you find the range runs from 7 to 127 and that
> RW> the occurrence of velocities between 7 and 30 is comparatively sparse.
> RW> Suppose your (arbitrary) aim is to group the velocities into a range of
> RW> 25 to 90.
> 
> RW> Here is how you could proceed with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9:
> 
> RW> 1.  First, take those few notes from 7 to 30, and make them all 30.
> RW> (You are not going to waste 24 steps of dynamic range on a few percent
> RW> of the notes.)  Using Cakewalk's filter, select the notes of velocity
> RW> from 1 and 30.  Now use Edit/Velocity to set them all to 30.  Save and
> RW> view again with Veloset.
> 
> RW> 2. Now, the range is 30 to 127 . . . a width of 97.  You want to scrunch
> RW> that range of 97 to a range of 90 minus 25 . . . a width of 65.  So, the
> RW> percentage to scale is (90 - 25)/(127 - 30) which is 67%.  Now, select
> RW> all notes and use Edit/Velocity to scale by 67%.  Save and check your
> RW> work with Veloset.  (Or, you could have just scaled using Veloset.)
> RW> Note that the range is now 20 to 85.
> 
> RW> 3. To put the range where you want it, you need to move it up 5 steps.
> RW> Select all notes and use Edit/Midi Effects/Cakewalk FX/Velocity and
> RW> "Change Velocities by" to add 5 to each note's velocity.  Save and check
> RW> with Veloset.  They should be right where you wanted them.
> 
> RW> In summary, to make linear changes, you need to use a tool that is able
> RW> to both scale by a percentage and to make fixed offsets.
> 
> RW> If you wish to get fancy, it is possible to make non-linear changes by
> RW> writing a table of the desired "before" and "after" velocity values and
> RW> incorporating those values in a CAL routine within Cakewalk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RW> Walter Sharpe wrote:
> 
>>>Spencer,
>>>  
>>>Thanks. I was hoping your program could help with pedal thump too but I
>>>guess the problem lies somewhere in the MX500 Disklavier II design,
>>>construction and/or adjustment.
>>>  
>>>I'll check out your program. The idea of reducing velocities by 
>>>percentages in order to retain dynamic range as suggested by PianoBench
>>>seems like an improvement over my method. I am anxious to see the 
>>>results of his look at your program. It has to be interesting if it gets
>>>a Mac person to take a look. :-)  -Walt
>>>
>>>Spencer Chase <spencer@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Greetings Walter,
>>>
>>>     Thanks for the report on what you do to improve midi files for use on
>>>     the DKV. It sounds like nothing is really going to improve a thumping
>>>     pedal. That was my suspicion. I was just hoping to include a function
>>>     in my program if something could be described that would fix a problem
>>>     with the files. Sounds like this is not the case.
>>>
>>>     With all the adjusting that you do to velocities you might find my
>>>     velocity adjusting program to be useful. You can define presets to
>>>     adjust minimum and maximum levels as well as adding a general increase
>>>     or decrease. You don't have to keep opening and closing files. Just
>>>     direct the program to the folder containing files and all will be
>>>     processed automatically. Once you figure out the presets that you
>>>     need, you can save them and use them over and over.
>>>
>>>     I will be updating and improving the program as I find things that
>>>     need improving. You can find the latest version at:
>>>
>>>     http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip
>>>
>>>     Be sure to click on the help button for description as to how the
>>>     program works.
>>>
>>>     Saturday, January 3, 2004, 11:04:33 PM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>     WS> Thank you Fred, Spencer and Piano Bench,
>>>
>>>     WS>      I will respond to your various comments (copied below)
>>>     WS> all at once rather than separately to make it easier for you all
>>>     WS> to follow. Maybe some others out there will benefit from some of
>>>     WS> the information here.
>>>
>>>     WS>      Since my response is rather lengthy, I have included it
>>>     WS> in an attached zip file along with some midi files that
>>>     WS> demonstrate some of my points. They sound very nice too so maybe
>>>     WS> those who are not that interested in the discussion will at least
>>>     WS> enjoy the music!
>>>
>>>     WS> -Walt
>>>     WS> ------------------------
>>>     WS> To: "Walter Sharpe"
>>>     WS> From: "Spencer Chase"   Add to Address Book
>>>     WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 00:09:40 -0800 
>>>     WS> Subject: [disklavier] pedal thumping etc.     
>>>     WS>  
>>>     WS> Greetings Walter and Group,
>>>
>>>     WS> I am writing utility programs to modify MIDI files. Is there
>>>     WS> some agreement regarding what needs to be done to eliminate
>>>     WS> duplicate track data etc for problems like pedal thumping? Is this
>>>     WS> an issolated problem or do certain MIDI file conventions (I really
>>>     WS> don't understand the need for duplicate pedal information to be in
>>>     WS> files to begin with.) produce files that cause problems and is
>>>     WS> there a need for utilities to remove or shift these events?
>>>
>>>     WS> Most of the functions in my utilities are for electronic
>>>     WS> piano rolls but I am hoping to add functions for use by DKV
>>>     WS> owners. What sorts of functions are needed. I can easily add
>>>     WS> functions like merging tracks. I already can do this and can fix
>>>     WS> resulting overlaps but have not attempted to remove redundant
>>>     WS> events. This is probably not difficult to do but is it necessary?
>>>     WS> Does the DKV care if events are duplicated?
>>>     WS> --------------------------
>>>     WS> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>     WS> From: PianoBench@...  Add to Address Book
>>>     WS> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:43:46 EST
>>>     WS> Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier
>>>     WS> problems (Pedal Thump Revisited)
>>>
>>>     WS> Good morning, everyone.
>>>
>>>     WS> Walt, I think it is time to call Yamaha Piano Service
>>>     WS> directly. You should not have to wait so long for your technician
>>>     WS> to take care of this matter.
>>>
>>>     WS> All pianos will have some level of noise due to their
>>>     WS> mechanical nature. Your narrative seems to show that your
>>>     WS> instrument is outside of normal parameters.
>>>
>>>     WS> Yamaha Piano Service: (800) 854-1569 between 8:30-5:00 PST.
>>>     WS> Push 2 at the first menu choice and 2 at the second menu choice.
>>>
>>>     WS> I hasten to add, though, that I think the best test of your
>>>     WS> instrument would be to see how it plays song files that were
>>>     WS> recorded in realtime by a pianist on a Disklavier. The song files
>>>     WS> from
>>>     WS> www.parlorsongs.com were not recorded by a pianist on a
>>>     WS> Disklavier. Although they may be enjoyable, they represent a
>>>     WS> totally artificial creation.
>>>
>>>     WS> Regards,
>>>     WS> PianoBench
>>>     WS> ----------------------
>>>     WS> o: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>>     WS> From: "fkagel"   Add to Address Book
>>>     WS> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 10:09:07 -0000
>>>     WS> Subject: [disklavier] Re: 3 mysterious Disklavier problems
>>>     (Pedal Thump Revisited)
>>>
>>>     WS> Walt,
>>>
>>>     WS> Starting with the source, the 12th St Rag Midi file is
>>>     WS> strictly on/off (up/down) for the sustain pedal, no ands, ifs, or
>>>     WS> buts. Therefore, continuous (HP/Half Pedal) is a mute issue with
>>>     WS> this particular file.In Cakewalk, View | Events and observe
>>>     WS> Controller 64 (the sustain pedal) as 127 or 0 --- right down thump
>>>     WS> alley. In Cakewalk or other sequencing program, you can lower the
>>>     WS> upper values. You did not delete all of the pedal info as you have
>>>     WS> indicated below. I still saw Controller 64 data.
>>>
>>>     WS> I am not familiar with your model DKV (we have a Mark III),
>>>     WS> and not sure of your controller's capabilities with regard to HP
>>>     WS> data. What happens if you record something and observe the
>>>     WS> Controller values in Cakewalk? Are they not in a variable range?
>>>     WS> How does the thumping sound?
>>>
>>>     WS> AFAIK, you can redirect only one MIDI channel to the DSK
>>>     WS> itself through the Mark III controller functions, so what you are
>>>     WS> doing with the midi file is just fine. I was referring to a file
>>>     WS> that already had Piano on Channel 1 and 2 and pedal on 3.
>>>
>>>     WS> Fred
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     WS> Do you Yahoo!?
>>>     WS> Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003
>>>
>>>     WS> To Post a message to the group, send it to:  
>>>     disklavier@...
>>>
>>>     WS> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>>>     moderator, send it to:
>>>     WS> disklavier-owner@...
>>>
>>>     WS> To reach our group's web site go to:
>>>     WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>>
>>>     WS> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
>>>     WS> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among
>>>     WS> many other things, The url is:
>>>     WS> http://MuncyFamily.com
>>>
>>>     WS> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>>     WS> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting
>>>     WS> too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery
>>>     WS> option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your
>>>     WS> access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send
>>>     WS> a blank email to:
>>>     WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>>     WS> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>>>     WS> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>>>     WS> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     WS> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>     WS> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>     WS> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>>>     WS>  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>     WS> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>     WS>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>>     Service.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     -- 
>>>     Best regards,
>>>     Spencer Chase mailto:spencer@...
>>>     67550 Bell Springs Rd.
>>>     Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
>>>     Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
>>>     Spencer@...
>>>     http://www.spencerserolls.com
>>>     http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
>>>     (707) 984-8356
>>>
>>>
>>>     To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
>>>
>>>     To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>>>     moderator, send it to:
>>>     disklavier-owner@...
>>>
>>>     To reach our group's web site go to:
>>>     http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>>
>>>     Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains
>>>     some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
>>>     things, The url is:
>>>     http://MuncyFamily.com
>>>
>>>     THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>>     If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
>>>     mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
>>>     instead. That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to
>>>     the group. If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
>>>     disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>>     Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
>>>     disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>>>     http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>>>
>>>
>>>     Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>     To visit your group on the web, go to:
>>>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>>>
>>>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>     disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>>>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>Find out what made the Top Yahoo! Searches of 2003 
>>><http://search.yahoo.com/top2003>
>>>
>>>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>>>
>>>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
>>>moderator, send it to:
>>>disklavier-owner@...
>>>
>>>To reach our group's web site go to:
>>>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>>>
>>>Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains
>>>some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
>>>things, The url is:
>>>http://MuncyFamily.com
>>>
>>>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>>>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
>>>mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
>>>instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to
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>>>Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Greetings Robert,

http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip for the velocity
program.

On some computers, it seems that the c drive does not show up in the
directory tree until you add it from the add function below the tree.
I have not figured out why this is different on some computers. Anyway
it does work if you add it. Also, one person mentioned that the preset
file is saved on the desktop. Otherwise, it works.

The main use of the program would be with files that are consistently
different in terms of velocities from what is wanted. Nothing is going
to fix up an individual file as well as you can by listening to it
over and over and fiddling forever.

I can add a histogram plotting function to the program if it would be
useful but this will require some learning, on my part, about graphic
displays. Since veloset does this it might not be the highest
priority.

It has been my opinion that Yamaha would operate the pedals properly
and that thumping pedals are caused by improper adjustment. Getting a
tech to adjust this properly may not be easy and many pianos do seem
to thump loudly. It also seems to be a problem with PianoDisc. That is
why I am thinking about making the program to minimize it.

Monday, January 5, 2004, 12:16:20 PM, you wrote:

RW> Thanks for your note, Spencer.

RW> I haven't tried your program.  Please jog my memory and tell me where I
RW> can get it so I can give it a spin.

RW> When people in the group started debating, "Should I scale or should I
RW> shift velocities?", I thought it was time to say something, since to do
RW> a decent job, one may have to do more and have some understanding of
RW> what's happening.

RW> IMO, fussing with velocities is a desperate effort to make a piece
RW> listenable.  I do it myself--the Oguri files, for example.  I like his
RW> Satie pieces and I just don't know of any PianoSoft-quality files of
RW> Satie.  Worked-over, they are far better than nothing at all, but are
RW> still short of what I'd like.

RW> When I do resort to adjusting velocities, I like to see what I'm doing.
RW>   Veloset has been very useful to me in displaying an instant histogram.
RW>   (Before I used Veloset, I made histograms using a klutzy method 
RW> involving Cakewalk and Excel.)

RW> I do not adjust velocities so often that efficiency of the process is a
RW> big concern to me.  I would still do the files one at a time. The Oguri
RW> files were all sufficiently different that the scaling percentages and
RW> offsets that I chose were somewhat different.

RW> As for the thumping problems, much of that may be due to lack of DKV
RW> pedal adjustment and calibration.  It's a fussy procedure.  It's my
RW> impression that most tuner/techs are comfortable working on a piano, but
RW> tend to shy away from messing with the Disklavier portion.  I've have a
RW> publication from Yamaha which exhorts techs to perform, on every visit,
RW> the "Irreducible Minimum Disklavier Service", yet my tech will not.

RW> My point is: Just as you don't tune an engine with dirty spark plugs,
RW> you don't try to eliminate thumping with software when the pedal is out
RW> of adjustment.

RW> Limiting the pedal to the range of 20 to 95 has worked for me, both on
RW> continuous and on/off files.  The noise elimination is not total, 
RW> especially for on/off, but I believe it's tolerable.

RW> Bob



-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Please remember that Yamaha designed the PianoSmart software and their
Disklaviers BEFORE there was standardization of MIDI.  They continue to
support their own format.  Starting with the MarkIIXG systems, these
Disklaviers are extremely fantastic and adhere perfectly to changing MIDI
standards.  That is why their software is updatable!  All these problems you
hear about on this list are on models that were designed before modern
standards, or the ones built to a price point.

Both PianoDisc and QRS Pianomation will play ON/OFF pedal data, but only the
Yamaha Disklavier will play incremental pedaling.  Only the Yamaha
Disklavier will give you a good reproducing recording of a piano
performance.  As a technician who services all three systems, my personal
opinion is that the number one system is the MarkIII Disklavier. My second
choice is the QRS Chili system.  A HUGE advantage of the Disklavier is that
it is ALWAYS factory installed so you know what you are getting.  Both the
QRS and PianoDisc are independently retrofitted so the quality of the
installation can vary a lot!  I know very, very, very few piano technicians
who will service someone else's installations.  Only the Disklavier has
in-line pedal solenoids.  Believe me, no other pedals work as well!

I also want to thank you Spencer for all those wonderful pianoroll
conversions you have done.  You did this way before anyone else!  I also use
your software and really appreciate the free goodies on your website.  I
send people to it all the time!

People have different uses for their MIDI players. If yours is to play those
wonderful CDs you produce, take one with you when you look at all the models
that are available out there.  People also have different budgets and ears.
I doubt you will get any more standardization in MIDI players as long as
folks have these differences.  Check 'em out!!!

Carol Beigel



----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Spencer Chase" <spencer@...>
To: "Robert Welcyng" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 11:47 AM
Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.

> If Yamaha feels that they can produce better
> results with their own music by taking advantage of features of their
> system then that puts their music at an advantage and it should
> increase sales for them as long as their recordings are good in other
> respects. To design their systems to play other standard formats in an
> inferior way is manipulative and sleezy.
>
> I am thinking about buying a DKV or a Pianodisc so that I can play a
> variety of music from piano rolls and other sources. I have several
> customers who have done just this and most of them have chosen
> Pianodisc over DKV for this very reason.
>
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...

Good afternoon, everyone.

In a message dated 1/6/04 11:57:48 AM, Spencer writes:


> Regarding the playing of music other than Yamaha's, I have to
> disagree. There is no excuse for not supporting standard MIDI
> conventions. It is unreasonable to expect everyone to make special
> versions of their music to work with the current and future models and
> their peculiarities. If Yamaha feels that they can produce better
> results with their own music by taking advantage of features of their
> system then that puts their music at an advantage and it should
> increase sales for them as long as their recordings are good in other
> respects. To design their systems to play other standard formats in an
> inferior way is manipulative and sleezy.
> 
I believe that Yamaha's implementation of MIDI in the Disklavier has 
completely conformed to standards and has, on occasion, led the industry in expanding 
those standards in a logical way.

(1) Note-on velocity
The biggest issue with playing back SMFs is the issue of the velocity profile 
of the instrument. Unfortunately, there are NO industry standards in this 
regard. Every non-acoustic keyboard must--by its electronic nature--work with a 
velocity profile that is totally artificial in its conception. In fact, many 
advanced MIDI keyboards even offer a variety of keyboard velocity profiles.

When you play an electronic keyboard or play a SMF on an electronic keyboard, 
if you think that the sound is too loud, you turn down the volume knob. If 
you think it is too soft, you turn up the volume, get more robust speakers, 
adjust the EQ, etc. In other words, people who use electronic keyboards also fuss 
with the velocity issue, too. 

However, people who use electronic keyboards are usually not listening to 
exposed piano playing with a great piano sample using great speakers with the 
expectation that they are going to hear the equivalent of someone playing live in 
their livingroom. In other words, the people in the electronic area of the 
MIDI world   have completely different expectations, and it is not surprising 
that their MIDI files do not match our instrument as well as we would like.

The problem is that when all of the thousands of people who author SMFs do 
their work, they are all working in totally different acoustical environoments. 
To make matters worse, many work with light action keyboards (which are even 
more removed from the concept of an acoustic piano), thin-sounding piano 
sample, and small speakers. So, they have a tendancy to keep boosting volume levels, 
both by generating high velocities and setting controller 7 to a high value. 
The problem is even more compounded when they try to get a piano track to 
stand out in an ensemble MIDI file.

In comparison, piano recordings made across the world by people playing on 
Disklavier are remarkably similar when played back on any other Disklavier. That 
is the result of the Disklavier's brilliant design that attempts to insure 
that the originally recorded velocities play back accurately.

No other reproducing piano system comes close to achieving these results.

(2) Pedals
In the early days of MIDI, the sustain and soft pedals (controllers 64 and 
67) on electronic keyboard instruments were simple on/off switches that 
generated values of 0 and 127. I don't know if Disklavier was the first instrument to 
implement controllers 64 and   67 as continuous controllers, but it was one of 
the early instruments to do so.

When makers of digital pianos got more sophisticated with their 
sound-processing capabilities, most or all of them started implementing the pedals as 
continuous controllers, too.

By comparison, PianoDisc and QRS record and playback only on/off pedals on 
all models and ignore the   soft pedal completely. (Of course, I may be unaware 
of recent changes to these products, and I am prepared to be corrected on this 
point.)

Although certain models of Disklavier respond only to on/off pedals, the 
on/off response has been implemented in a way that should have a certain 
smoothness to it. Loud thumping is definitely a reason to call Yamaha Piano Service if 
the local technician does not know what to do.

I cannot claim that all Disklavier models are completely devoid of mechanical 
noise, but I don't think that the normal level of noise should be a problem 
in most cases.

Regards,
PianoBench

Greetings Carol,

Thanks for the details regarding different models and standards. I did
not realize that the models that do not treat standard midi properly
are just the old ones and the cheaper ones. I now know a little more
about what to look for. I do not want to buy a new piano that sounds
worse than my antique reproducing pianos. Pedal thumping is not OK for
me. I have spent hours adjusting the dampers on my upright Steinway
(very strange spoon design) and the pneumatics so that the pedals are
nearly inaudible.  I expect the same in a new piano and am glad that
it is possible. I hope to do some shopping in the next few days and
now I know a little more what to look for. I will bring my piano roll
transcriptions to test with. I have only had about 30 minutes trying
them on a mid sized DKV grand and they sounded quite good at full
volume. When I turned the volume down (I was forced to by others and
would probably never do this for my own listening) the dynamic
structure became a bit odd. I wonder if this is different for each
model, which would make sense as the dynamics of every piano are
different. This is one of the main reasons for writing the velocity
modifying program. Not to try to fix up bad music, but to tailor it to
particular instruments or listening environments or preferences.



 --  Best regards, Spencer Chase
mailto:spencer@... 67550 Bell Springs Rd. Garberville,
CA 95542    Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@... http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm (707) 984-8356

The piano only plays MIDI data on Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R).  I think
it would nice to have such a program that only turned down the velocity of
the piano parts!  The volume of the other MIDI parts are easily adjusted
with a volume control knob on a tone generator.  BTW, QRS Pianomation and
PianoDisc only play MIDI 0 files from a floppy disk; the Disklavier plays
both formats from the floppy drive starting with the MarkIIXG series.  If I
recall properly, a patch change is selecting a different instrument.  Even
if you had a trumpet patch on channel 1 or 2, it would still play the piano
keys.

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Spencer Chase" <spencer@...>
To: <disklavier@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:33 PM
Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.


> Greetings,
>
> Does anyone have information as to how the DKV responds to multi
> instrument midi files? I would like to add an option to my velocity
> setting program that allow for adjusting velocity on just the piano
> parts.
>
> Does the DKV use patch changes to determine what to play on the piano
> or does it expect the piano part to be on a particular track or
> channel or both?
>
> There may be different ways that files are made by various people so I
> want to make sure that whatever works on the DKV is treated properly.
>
> I hope to not have to have the user make a bunch of different choices
> depending on the specifics of the source midi so hopefully there are
> some conventions that are generally followed.
>
> My hope is that the standard is one channel per track for notes for
> each instrument(voice), proceeded with a patch change to assign that
> instrument.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
> 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> (707) 984-8356
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some
fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The
url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail,
go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you
insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>
>   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

Hi, Carol, I am new to the group and picking up a lot of knowledge by
being here. We bought our DGA1 ( 4'11 grand w/DKV) in November 2003. I
have been following the discussions and can add several comments: Our
disklavier was added to the piano by the dealer - I know this for a fact
since I selected the grand myself, before the DKV was added.  Also, the
floppy drive (DKC100XG) will only play MIDI 0 files, it will not play
MIDI 1. If a floppy with a MIDI 1 file is inserted in the drive, we
either get the message "cannot execute" or the unit goes into limbo and
has to be powered off to recover. I think we got a somewhat 'disabled'
MARK III.  I have been using the MID2ESQ utility to convert files and
either type 0 or type 1 work after being converted to .FIL. We have a
DCD1 CD drive attached below the XG unit which plays PianoSoft Plus
w/audio.  I have the output from the XG unit connected to the DCD1, and
the audio output of the DCD1 connected to my stereo, so the Ensemble
parts play through my Bose speakers. The XG and DCD1 are also connected
through MIDI cables. I heard somewhere that the new units have the
floppy and CD drives in one unit. I'm not too happy with the dealer
prep, as the soft pedal did not work at all until I adjusted the pedal
stop to allow the action to move far enough to the right, and one of the
pedal lyre bolts was missing. I told the dealer about this, but never
heard back so I bought a bold (metric) from the local hardware store and
added that. My 2 cents to the pedal thump problem; we can hear that
during soft playback. I added a small strip of felt under the back of
the pedal and that nearly eliminated the sound.

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Beigel [mailto:crbrpt@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 3:53 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] A reply to your message.
 
The piano only plays MIDI data on Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R).  I
think
it would nice to have such a program that only turned down the velocity
of
the piano parts!  The volume of the other MIDI parts are easily adjusted
with a volume control knob on a tone generator.  BTW, QRS Pianomation
and
PianoDisc only play MIDI 0 files from a floppy disk; the Disklavier
plays
both formats from the floppy drive starting with the MarkIIXG series.
If I
recall properly, a patch change is selecting a different instrument.
Even
if you had a trumpet patch on channel 1 or 2, it would still play the
piano
keys.

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Spencer Chase" <spencer@...>
To: <disklavier@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:33 PM
Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.


> Greetings,
>
> Does anyone have information as to how the DKV responds to multi
> instrument midi files? I would like to add an option to my velocity
> setting program that allow for adjusting velocity on just the piano
> parts.
>
> Does the DKV use patch changes to determine what to play on the piano
> or does it expect the piano part to be on a particular track or
> channel or both?
>
> There may be different ways that files are made by various people so I
> want to make sure that whatever works on the DKV is treated properly.
>
> I hope to not have to have the user make a bunch of different choices
> depending on the specifics of the source midi so hopefully there are
> some conventions that are generally followed.
>
> My hope is that the standard is one channel per track for notes for
> each instrument(voice), proceeded with a patch change to assign that
> instrument.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
> 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> (707) 984-8356
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:
disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains
some
fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things,
The
url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
mail,
go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If
you
insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>
>   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>   disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>




To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains
some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com 

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.
That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@... 

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 



  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links
*        To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
  
*        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> 
  
*        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Service.

We all owe a huge vote of thanks to Danny [simpsond@...], who is
now helping me moderate the group.  He donated many hours of his time
and single-handedly completely cleaned up the disorganized mess of a
files section, which had evolved uncontrolled since the first days of
the group.  I tried it and you can actually find whatever you want very
quickly.  We now have two megabytes freed up and a couple requests/rules
for keeping it in order.   
 
There is a text file at the top of the files section which states the
following:
 
File 'Folders' have been set up to separate the different song type
categories. When adding new files to this area, add them to the
appropriate
folders.
                      
The *description* area underneath each file contains a short description
that
tells what is contained in each file. 'Zipped'(.zip) files can contain
either 
Several MIDI (.mid) <or> eseq (.fil) files.
 
1) If a 'zipped' file *description* mentions '.fil format', it contains
eseq
files. Else, it contains MIDI files.
 
2) If either a MIDI <or> 'zipped' file *description* mentions '*Multi*',
that
file contains piano and other instruments within that file. (In the case
of
a 'zipped' file, either one <or> more of the files within that file are
'multi-
timbral' type files.) *These files may not play properly on older
Disklaviers.*
 
(At this time, January 2004, some of the 'zipped' files may contain a
mixture
of different musical categories. This may be sorted out at a future
date.)
 
 
To make things even easier, we have created a special upload folder at
the top of the files section.  If you're not sure which folder to upload
something to, put it there and we will move it to the appropriate
folder.  Please zip files before uploading them.  If we run out of space
again, I will transfer some of the larger folders and files to a private
server and provide a link in its place.  We are still looking for
nominations for bad music to delete from the files section.
 
Thanks again to Danny for donating so much time on our behalf.  Bravo!

Greetings Carol,

So for the program to do what you want, and just turn down the piano,
what would you want as a determining factor?  Would it work to adjust
the velocity on any channels 1 and 2 no matter the track or smf0 or
smf1 or patch as the piano would play all these parts, no matter what?

If this sort of thinking is followed by other manufacturers then it
would seem that a simple ability to limit velocity control to chosen
channels would work for most. I have seen multi part type 1 files that
have different tracks for different parts but the piano does always
seem to be on track 1 one and channels 1 or 2. It has been a while
since I have looked at these and do not have them with me to look at
so any support of this idea would help.

I can easily add this feature if the above is all that is necessary.

By the way, I am writing these programs for a few reasons, to learn
programming again, to get ready for the day when I have a solenoid
reproducing piano and to share some tools that I find useful but that
few people have the time or interest to write. Also because I am stuck
away from home with time on my hands and am going nuts looking for
something to do.

Happy New Year


Tuesday, January 6, 2004,
12:53:24 PM, you wrote:

CB> The piano only plays MIDI data on Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R).\ufffd I think
CB> it would nice to have such a program that only turned down the velocity of
CB> the piano parts!\ufffd The volume of the other MIDI parts are easily adjusted
CB> with a volume control knob on a tone generator.\ufffd BTW, QRS Pianomation and
CB> PianoDisc only play MIDI 0 files from a floppy disk; the Disklavier plays
CB> both formats from the floppy drive starting with the MarkIIXG series.\ufffd If I
CB> recall properly, a patch change is selecting a different instrument.\ufffd Even
CB> if you had a trumpet patch on channel 1 or 2, it would still play the piano
CB> keys.

CB> Carol Beigel

 



-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

I am totally astonished.  A DGA1 is clearly a MarkIII grand piano, playback
only, with a DKC55 controller.  I know because I installed the DCD1 and
PianoSmart upgrade on one yesterday!  The DKC100XG is a Mark IIXG controller
that only plays MIDI format 0 and ESEQ files.  Dealer installation of a
Disklavier is unheard of.  Did you write down the serial number of the piano
you selected?  I think you got one of the last the MarkIIXG playback only
grands.  Our local dealer sold a lot of them about 2 years ago.  It doesn't
really matter if you are happy with your purchase.

Carol

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Jim Schelling" <jimschelling@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: [disklavier] A reply to your message.


> Hi, Carol, I am new to the group and picking up a lot of knowledge by
> being here. We bought our DGA1 ( 4'11 grand w/DKV) in November 2003. I
> have been following the discussions and can add several comments: Our
> disklavier was added to the piano by the dealer - I know this for a fact
> since I selected the grand myself, before the DKV was added.  Also, the
> floppy drive (DKC100XG) will only play MIDI 0 files, it will not play
> MIDI 1. If a floppy with a MIDI 1 file is inserted in the drive, we
> either get the message "cannot execute" or the unit goes into limbo and
> has to be powered off to recover. I think we got a somewhat 'disabled'
> MARK III.  I have been using the MID2ESQ utility to convert files and
> either type 0 or type 1 work after being converted to .FIL. We have a
> DCD1 CD drive attached below the XG unit which plays PianoSoft Plus
> w/audio.  I have the output from the XG unit connected to the DCD1, and
> the audio output of the DCD1 connected to my stereo, so the Ensemble
> parts play through my Bose speakers. The XG and DCD1 are also connected
> through MIDI cables. I heard somewhere that the new units have the
> floppy and CD drives in one unit. I'm not too happy with the dealer
> prep, as the soft pedal did not work at all until I adjusted the pedal
> stop to allow the action to move far enough to the right, and one of the
> pedal lyre bolts was missing. I told the dealer about this, but never
> heard back so I bought a bold (metric) from the local hardware store and
> added that. My 2 cents to the pedal thump problem; we can hear that
> during soft playback. I added a small strip of felt under the back of
> the pedal and that nearly eliminated the sound.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carol Beigel [mailto:crbrpt@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 3:53 PM
> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] A reply to your message.
>
> The piano only plays MIDI data on Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R).  I
> think
> it would nice to have such a program that only turned down the velocity
> of
> the piano parts!  The volume of the other MIDI parts are easily adjusted
> with a volume control knob on a tone generator.  BTW, QRS Pianomation
> and
> PianoDisc only play MIDI 0 files from a floppy disk; the Disklavier
> plays
> both formats from the floppy drive starting with the MarkIIXG series.
> If I
> recall properly, a patch change is selecting a different instrument.
> Even
> if you had a trumpet patch on channel 1 or 2, it would still play the
> piano
> keys.
>
> Carol Beigel
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Spencer Chase" <spencer@...>
> To: <disklavier@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:33 PM
> Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.
>
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Does anyone have information as to how the DKV responds to multi
> > instrument midi files? I would like to add an option to my velocity
> > setting program that allow for adjusting velocity on just the piano
> > parts.
> >
> > Does the DKV use patch changes to determine what to play on the piano
> > or does it expect the piano part to be on a particular track or
> > channel or both?
> >
> > There may be different ways that files are made by various people so I
> > want to make sure that whatever works on the DKV is treated properly.
> >
> > I hope to not have to have the user make a bunch of different choices
> > depending on the specifics of the source midi so hopefully there are
> > some conventions that are generally followed.
> >
> > My hope is that the standard is one channel per track for notes for
> > each instrument(voice), proceeded with a patch change to assign that
> > instrument.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Best regards,
> > Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
> > 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> > Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> > Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> > Spencer@...
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> > (707) 984-8356
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to:
> disklavier@...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
> moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains
> some
> fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things,
> The
> url is:
> > http://MuncyFamily.com
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
> mail,
> go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
> will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If
> you
> insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> ------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >   a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
> >
> >   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >   disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains
> some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
> things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
> mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.
> That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
> If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> *        To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>
> *        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> *        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Service.
>

Hi PianoBench,
The 'guts' of the DK were NOT in the piano. I looked underneath and saw
the slot for it. The bottoms of the keys were plainly visible. There is
not a 'To Host' connector on the back of the XG unit. The dealer put the
"DGA1XG" label on the cross brace under the piano and in the XG Manuel.
There is a label "XG SERIES" pasted over "DGP1XG" in the manual,
although the manual matches the DKC100XG control unit we have. The CD
player is mounted (with Velcro) under the XG unit and is labeled "DCD1".
When I first went to the dealer to look at a disklavier, they showed me
the digital unit. When I said I wanted an acoustic piano they showed me
the 4'11" grand and said they could add the 'digital' capability to it.
After we worked out the final price (including a trade-in of a Kawai
digital piano) they told me I was getting the grand with 'all the
capabilities' of the digital disklavier, which turns out not to be true.
The dealer probably gave me what he could at the price quoted, which was
very reasonable.
 
 I am not unhappy with the piano, but according to a Yamaha Piano
Service Specialist at web: www.yamaha.com, I will need to add a DSR1 to
play the PianoSmart software: "The DSR1 is an XG tone generator with a
Floppy Disk and is capable of PianoSmart via software update. Your
DKC100XG can not be upgraded for PianoSmart." 
 
 I'm wondering if I can get an updated control unit that includes both a
floppy and CD drive - the dealer hinted that these are the new units
being used.

-----Original Message-----
From: PianoBench@... [mailto:PianoBench@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 5:44 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] A reply to your message.
 
Good afternoon, everyone.

In a message dated 1/6/04 5:07:54 PM, jimschelling@... writes:



I am new to the group and picking up a lot of knowledge by being here.
We bought our DGA1 ( 4'11 grand w/DKV) in November 2003. I have been
following the discussions and can add several comments: Our disklavier
was added to the piano by the dealer - I know this for a fact since I
selected the grand myself, before the DKV was added.

The "guts" of the system were installed at the factory. At most, the
dealer would have mounted and attached the control unit. This control
unit does not have to be mounted under the keys. You can remove it and
put it somewhere else if you would like.



 Also, the floppy drive (DKC100XG) will only play MIDI 0 files, it will
not play MIDI 1. If a floppy with a MIDI 1 file is inserted in the
drive, we either get the message "cannot execute" or the unit goes into
limbo and has to be powered off to recover. 

Are you sure that you gto a DGA1? You can find a description on this
webpage:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,63
73,CNTID%253D2114%2526CTID%253D201900%2526ATRID%253D20%2526DETYP%253DATT
RIBUTE%2526VNM%253DLIVE%2526AFLG%253DY%2526LGFL%253DN,00.html

The DGA1 supports the playback of Type 1 Standard MIDI files. Although
it is not mentioned on the website, I believe that the correct control
unit for this piano is the DKC55. Check and see if your control unit has
a "To Host" connector on the back, in addition to MIDI In, MIDI Out, and
the connector to the piano itself.



I think we got a somewhat 'disabled' MARK III.

I believe that the DGA1 is a somewhat reduced Mark III in the sense that
it does not come with a built-in CD drive and it does not record.

Regards,
PianoBench


To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains
some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other
things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com 

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.
That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@... 

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 



  _____  

Yahoo! Groups Links
*        To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
  
*        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> 
  
*        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Service.

Many people think their Disklaviers play too loudly.  Usually this is
happens because the piano hammers are too hard and give the piano a very
"bright" sound.  If the piano hammers don't hit the strings too hard, it
will play more quietly.  Velocity values for MIDI tone generators do not
always translate into the voltage necessary to make a piano key move.  The
best velocity numbers fall between 30 and 80 in my opinion.  I agree with
PianoBench that reducing volume by a percentage instead of straight values,
leaves the music with more nuance.  I know that when I look at the graph on
Veloset that I have no idea what the vertical lines mean.  If I smoosh them
all so they fall between 30 and 80 I know that I am losing dynamic range.

Yamaha PianoSoft disks come in several varieties.  There are piano-only;
piano plus Ensemble sounds, and piano plus audio.

I know from experience that most owners of Disklaviers never read their
owner's manuals or want to spend more than a few minutes learning how they
work or all the wonderful features these things can do. They just want to
put the disks in and listen to them.  If you could turn down just the
velocity of the piano parts (Channels 1 and 2) and use the volume control
for the sounds coming out the speakers, that would be SO good!  Right now,
if you put a MIDI file with Ensemble sounds into Veloset, it turns down ALL
the tracks and you can never turn up the volume on the ensemble.  I think
the Giebler utilities let you decide upon the features when you do
adjusting.

Yes, no matter what patch data is on Channel 1 or 2, it will make the piano
keys move!

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Spencer Chase" <spencer@...>
To: "Carol Beigel" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 5:15 PM
Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.


Greetings Carol,

So for the program to do what you want, and just turn down the piano,
what would you want as a determining factor?  Would it work to adjust
the velocity on any channels 1 and 2 no matter the track or smf0 or
smf1 or patch as the piano would play all these parts, no matter what?

Greetings Carol,

I just added a feature to my velocity program. If you check the
appropriate box, it should only change the velocity on channels 1 and
2. After your previous informative posting I decided that this will
handle most needs. I think I worked s few other minor bugs out too.
Since I do not have the ability to test a multi voice file away from
home, I would like to hear from others if the program actually does
what it should now.

Tuesday, January 6, 2004, 3:29:29 PM, you wrote:


CB> put the disks in and listen to them.\ufffd If you could turn down just the
CB> velocity of the piano parts (Channels 1 and 2) and use the volume control
CB> for the sounds coming out the speakers, that would be SO good!\ufffd Right now,
CB> if you put a MIDI file with Ensemble sounds into Veloset, it turns down ALL
CB> the tracks and you can never turn up the volume on the ensemble.\ufffd I think
CB> the Giebler utilities let you decide upon the features when you do
CB> adjusting.

CB> Yes, no matter what patch data is on Channel 1 or 2, it will make the piano
CB> keys move!

CB> Carol Beigel


-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Greetings Group,

I just added a feature to my velocity program. It now will display  a
histogram and basic statistics for individual midi files. This data
can be used to help determine the settings to use for a particular
file or to check progress on modified files. The histogram data is
calculated from all events of from only those on channels 1 and 2
depending on the option selected.

I think that this is now a very useful program. Please give feedback
and feel free to ask for help in using it, if the limited help file is
not adequate to describe its use.

http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip

-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Hi Spencer,

I really like your Velmod program. Great work.

Do you have plan to make your program support Pianosoft/Disklavier file
format (.fil)

Thanks,
Sammy

-----Original Message-----
From: Spencer Chase [mailto:spencer@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 11:20 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.


Greetings Group,

I just added a feature to my velocity program. It now will display  a
histogram and basic statistics for individual midi files. This data
can be used to help determine the settings to use for a particular
file or to check progress on modified files. The histogram data is
calculated from all events of from only those on channels 1 and 2
depending on the option selected.

I think that this is now a very useful program. Please give feedback
and feel free to ask for help in using it, if the limited help file is
not adequate to describe its use.

http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip

--
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356


To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator,
send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some
fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The
url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail,
go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you
insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join


Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
 http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Indeed it is the default on the Disklavier to "only play MIDI data on 
Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R)", but this is not suitable for a lot of the 
MIDI files downloaded from the Internet.  In my case, I have changed the 
settings on the DKV to play the first two channels (not necessarily 
channels 1 and 2) that have piano patch to be played by the piano.  (I am 
currently away from home - and my DKV - so can't say exactly how to get to 
those settings or verify for the correct wording, but it's definitely there.)

So, since Spencer is writing a program that adjusts downloaded MIDI music 
for playing on the DKV, may I suggest that one useful function would be to 
move any channel(s) that have the piano patch to channels 1 and 2 (and move 
the other instruments away from channels 1 and 2)?  This would ensure that 
the processed files can be played on DKVs (default settings, as what most 
people would have) with the intended parts driving the piano.

If the above is possible, the velocity adjustment on channels 1&2 should 
happen after that  - so that it is the actual piano parts that get 
adjusted, not some trumpet part that happens to be on channel 1!  Thank you 
for all your efforts.

CCW


At 03:53 PM 1/6/2004, you wrote:

>The piano only plays MIDI data on Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R).  I think
>it would nice to have such a program that only turned down the velocity of
>the piano parts!  The volume of the other MIDI parts are easily adjusted
>with a volume control knob on a tone generator.  BTW, QRS Pianomation and
>PianoDisc only play MIDI 0 files from a floppy disk; the Disklavier plays
>both formats from the floppy drive starting with the MarkIIXG series.  If I
>recall properly, a patch change is selecting a different instrument.  Even
>if you had a trumpet patch on channel 1 or 2, it would still play the piano
>keys.
>
>Carol Beigel
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Spencer Chase" <spencer@...>
>To: <disklavier@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:33 PM
>Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.
>
>
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Does anyone have information as to how the DKV responds to multi
> > instrument midi files? I would like to add an option to my velocity
> > setting program that allow for adjusting velocity on just the piano
> > parts.
> >
> > Does the DKV use patch changes to determine what to play on the piano
> > or does it expect the piano part to be on a particular track or
> > channel or both?
> >
> > There may be different ways that files are made by various people so I
> > want to make sure that whatever works on the DKV is treated properly.
> >
> > I hope to not have to have the user make a bunch of different choices
> > depending on the specifics of the source midi so hopefully there are
> > some conventions that are generally followed.
> >
> > My hope is that the standard is one channel per track for notes for
> > each instrument(voice), proceeded with a patch change to assign that
> > instrument.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
> > 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
> > Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
> > Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
> > Spencer@...
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
> > (707) 984-8356

Greetings Chine-Chine,

That is a good idea. I will add an option to move all patch defined
events to the appropriate channel.

Thursday, January 8, 2004, 9:21:17 AM, you wrote:

CCW> Indeed it is the default on the Disklavier to "only play MIDI data on
CCW> Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R)", but this is not suitable for a lot of the
CCW> MIDI files downloaded from the Internet.\ufffd In my case, I have changed the
CCW> settings on the DKV to play the first two channels (not necessarily
CCW> channels 1 and 2) that have piano patch to be played by the piano.\ufffd (I am
CCW> currently away from home - and my DKV - so can't say exactly how to get to
CCW> those settings or verify for the correct wording, but it's definitely there.)

CCW> So, since Spencer is writing a program that adjusts downloaded MIDI music
CCW> for playing on the DKV, may I suggest that one useful function would be to
CCW> move any channel(s) that have the piano patch to channels 1 and 2 (and move
CCW> the other instruments away from channels 1 and 2)?\ufffd This would ensure that
CCW> the processed files can be played on DKVs (default settings, as what most
CCW> people would have) with the intended parts driving the piano.

CCW> If the above is possible, the velocity adjustment on channels 1 2 should
CCW> happen after that\ufffd - so that it is the actual piano parts that get
CCW> adjusted, not some trumpet part that happens to be on channel 1!\ufffd Thank you
CCW> for all your efforts.

CCW> CCW



-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Greetings Sam,

Thanks. It seems to work fine on some computers and not on others. I
can just barely get it to work this way so fil is not likely to
happen.

Keep checking for new versions as I fix bugs and add features. Will
add the suggestion by Chine Chine as soon as I have a chance. It is a
good idea.

Thursday, January 8, 2004, 8:19:23 AM, you wrote:

SH> Hi Spencer,

SH> I really like your Velmod program. Great work.

SH> Do you have plan to make your program support Pianosoft/Disklavier file
SH> format (.fil)

SH> Thanks,
SH> Sammy



SH> -----Original Message-----
SH> From: Spencer Chase [mailto:spencer@...]
SH> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 11:20 AM
SH> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
SH> Subject: [disklavier] A reply to your message.


SH> Greetings Group,

SH> I just added a feature to my velocity program. It now will display\ufffd a
SH> histogram and basic statistics for individual midi files. This data
SH> can be used to help determine the settings to use for a particular
SH> file or to check progress on modified files. The histogram data is
SH> calculated from all events of from only those on channels 1 and 2
SH> depending on the option selected.

SH> I think that this is now a very useful program. Please give feedback
SH> and feel free to ask for help in using it, if the limited help file is
SH> not adequate to describe its use.

SH> http://www.spencerserolls.com/VelMod/VelMod.zip

SH> --
SH> Best regards,
SH> Spencer Chase\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd mailto:spencer@...
SH> 67550 Bell Springs Rd.
SH> Garberville,\ufffd CA 95542\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd Postal service only.
SH> Laytonville, CA 95454\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd UPS only.
SH> Spencer@...
SH> http://www.spencerserolls.com
SH> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
SH> (707) 984-8356


SH> To Post a message to the group, send it to:\ufffd\ufffd disklavier@...

SH> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator,
SH> send it to:
SH> disklavier-owner@...

SH> To reach our group's web site go to:
SH> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

SH> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.\ufffd It contains some
SH> fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The
SH> url is:
SH> http://MuncyFamily.com

SH> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
SH> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail,
SH> go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.\ufffd That
SH> will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.\ufffd If you
SH> insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
SH> disklavier-unsubscribe@...

SH> Know someone who wants to join?\ufffd Have them send a blank email to:
SH> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
SH> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join


SH> Yahoo! Groups Links

SH> To visit your group on the web, go to:
SH>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/

SH> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
SH> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

SH> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
SH>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




SH> To Post a message to the group, send it to:\ufffd\ufffd disklavier@...

SH> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
SH> disklavier-owner@...

SH> To reach our group's web site go to:
SH> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

SH> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.\ufffd It
SH> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among
SH> many other things, The url is:
SH> http://MuncyFamily.com

SH> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
SH> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting
SH> too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery
SH> option instead.\ufffd That will fix the problem, while maintaining your
SH> access to the group.\ufffd If you insist on leaving us completely send
SH> a blank email to:
SH> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 

SH> Know someone who wants to join?\ufffd Have them send a blank email to:
SH> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
SH> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join





SH> Yahoo! Groups Links
SH> To visit your group on the web, go to:
SH> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
SH> \ufffdTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
SH> disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
SH> \ufffdYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



 



-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Spencer,
 
When you add thhe option suggested by Chine-Chine Wang, I think you might want to make it so you can decide if you want all piano parts to go to channel 1 or if you want them to go to 1&2 (if that's what Chine-Chine Wang and some people want). The reason I suggest this is that if I put a midi file on a floppy and put it in my DKV it only plays channel 1 on the piano. All other channels go out to my speaker system. I think that's the way it works for many if not all others. Someone please tell me how if I am wrong. From what I understand, a lot of people want to put their collections on floppy disks for ease of use by anyone else even if they play them from their laptop when they are operating it themselves. I am unaware of a setting where the DKV piano will play files on disk to channel 1&2 and send all other channels to speakers. There are ways to edit each individual file from the controller so they will eventually play for you but a far better way to do that is with a computer.
 
On the other hand, if I play the midi to the DKV from my laptop via my USB MidiSport interface, I can set my control unit so it will play channel 1 or 1&2 on the piano and send all the rest to the speakers. However, I recently learned that I can also set the control unit to find piano parts on any channel where the various piano or piano-like parts appear.
These settings are done by pressing FUNC.,Right arrow, ENTER, ENTER then +/YES or -/NO until you find the option you want and finish by pressing the FUNC button. The options on page 115 of my YMM Series manual are:

##  - MIDI IN data is played by just by the internal tone generator.

01 to 16 - MIDI IN data is played by the piano on the specified MIDI channel.

HP - Not Applicable.

1&2 - MIDI IN data is played by the piano. Left hand part on MIDI channel 1, right-hand part on MIDI 2.

Prg - MIDI IN data is played by the piano on the channel with the smallest number which contains a piano group voice.

Prg(all) - All channels that contain a piano group voice in the MIDI IN data is played by the piano.
 
Chine-Chine Wang, Does this sound like the way yours works?
 
Walt

Spencer Chase <spencer@...> wrote:
Greetings Chine-Chine,

That is a good idea. I will add an option to move all patch defined
events to the appropriate channel.

Thursday, January 8, 2004, 9:21:17 AM, you wrote:

CCW> Indeed it is the default on the Disklavier to "only play MIDI data on
CCW> Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R)", but this is not suitable for a lot of the
CCW> MIDI files downloaded from the Internet.  In my case, I have changed the
CCW> settings on the DKV to play the first two channels (not necessarily
CCW> channels 1 and 2) that have piano patch to be played by the piano.  (I am
CCW> currently away from home - and my DKV - so can't say exactly how to get to
CCW> those settings or verify for the correct wording, but it's definitely there.)

CCW> So, since Spencer is writing a program that adjusts downloaded MIDI music
CCW> for playing on the DKV, may I suggest that one useful function would be to
CCW> move any channel(s) that have the piano patch to channels 1 and 2 (and move
CCW> the other instruments away from channels 1 and 2)?  This would ensure that
CCW> the processed files can be played on DKVs (default settings, as what most
CCW> people would have) with the intended parts driving the piano.

CCW> If the above is possible, the velocity adjustment on channels 1 2 should
CCW> happen after that  - so that it is the actual piano parts that get
CCW> adjusted, not some trumpet part that happens to be on channel 1!  Thank you
CCW> for all your efforts.

CCW> CCW



-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356


To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
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To reach our group's web site go to:
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Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com 

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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Greetings Walter,

I plan to add two features to the program. One will be to put all
pedal data on channel 3 so that continuous controllers will work on
pianos that accept them.

The other feature relates to piano parts. The idea is pretty simple.
If this option is selected then any piano part (patch 0 or 1) will be
moved to channel unless it is already on channel one or two, so that
split keyboard stuff will not be changed. Stuff that is on channel one
or two and that is identified as other than piano (patch greater than
1) will be moved to channel 3 so it will not play on the dkv as piano.

There is also the common practice of separating by track so I might
add a feature to sort by track into specific channels but this will
involve more than just checking a button.





-- 
Best regards,
Spencer Chase        mailto:spencer@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

this is very interesting!

i thought i was going crazy when i would put a midi file in with piano on 1
and 2 and it would only play 1, sending 2 out to the synthesizer

i have a dkv C1 baby grand, with an xg (upgraded) conroller unit

does anyone know why the dkv does this? or how to make it stop mis-behaving?

i would second (bad pun) the recommendation that the optionbe available to
do the velo modification to channel 1 only

i woudl love to hear whether other DKV users experience the same 1-2
dysfunction that walter has mentioned

thank you for your time

sheldon deluty

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Walter Sharpe [mailto:wlsharpe@...]
  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 11:09 PM
  To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [disklavier] A reply to your message.


  Spencer,

  When you add thhe option suggested by Chine-Chine Wang, I think you might
want to make it so you can decide if you want all piano parts to go to
channel 1 or if you want them to go to 1&2 (if that's what Chine-Chine Wang
and some people want). The reason I suggest this is that if I put a midi
file on a floppy and put it in my DKV it only plays channel 1 on the piano.
All other channels go out to my speaker system. I think that's the way it
works for many if not all others. Someone please tell me how if I am wrong.
From what I understand, a lot of people want to put their collections on
floppy disks for ease of use by anyone else even if they play them from
their laptop when they are operating it themselves. I am unaware of a
setting where the DKV piano will play files on disk to channel 1&2 and send
all other channels to speakers. There are ways to edit each individual file
from the controller so they will eventually play for you but a far better
way to do that is with a computer.

  On the other hand, if I play the midi to the DKV from my laptop via my USB
MidiSport interface, I can set my control unit so it will play channel 1 or
1&2 on the piano and send all the rest to the speakers. However, I recently
learned that I can also set the control unit to find piano parts on any
channel where the various piano or piano-like parts appear.
  These settings are done by pressing FUNC.,Right arrow, ENTER, ENTER then
+/YES or -/NO until you find the option you want and finish by pressing the
FUNC button. The options on page 115 of my YMM Series manual are:

  ##  - MIDI IN data is played by just by the internal tone generator.

  01 to 16 - MIDI IN data is played by the piano on the specified MIDI
channel.

  HP - Not Applicable.

  1&2 - MIDI IN data is played by the piano. Left hand part on MIDI channel
1, right-hand part on MIDI 2.

  Prg - MIDI IN data is played by the piano on the channel with the smallest
number which contains a piano group voice.

  Prg(all) - All channels that contain a piano group voice in the MIDI IN
data is played by the piano.

  Chine-Chine Wang, Does this sound like the way yours works?

  Walt

  Spencer Chase <spencer@...> wrote:
    Greetings Chine-Chine,

    That is a good idea. I will add an option to move all patch defined
    events to the appropriate channel.

    Thursday, January 8, 2004, 9:21:17 AM, you wrote:

    CCW> Indeed it is the default on the Disklavier to "only play MIDI data
on
    CCW> Channel 1 (L) and Channel 2 (R)", but this is not suitable for a
lot of the
    CCW> MIDI files downloaded from the Internet.  In my case, I have
changed the
    CCW> settings on the DKV to play the first two channels (not necessarily
    CCW> channels 1 and 2) that have piano patch to be played by the piano.
(I am
    CCW> currently away from home - and my DKV - so can't say exactly how to
get to
    CCW> those settings or verify for the correct wording, but it's
definitely there.)

    CCW> So, since Spencer is writing a program that adjusts downloaded MIDI
music
    CCW> for playing on the DKV, may I suggest that one useful function
would be to
    CCW> move any channel(s) that have the piano patch to channels 1 and 2
(and move
    CCW> the other instruments away from channels 1 and 2)?  This would
ensure that
    CCW> the processed files can be played on DKVs (default settings, as
what most
    CCW> people would have) with the intended parts driving the piano.

    CCW> If the above is possible, the velocity adjustment on channels 1 2
should
    CCW> happen after that  - so that it is the actual piano parts that get
    CCW> adjusted, not some trumpet part that happens to be on channel 1!
Thank you
    CCW> for all your efforts.

    CCW> CCW



    --
    Best regards,
    Spencer Chase mailto:spencer@...
    67550 Bell Springs Rd.
    Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
    Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
    Spencer@...
    http://www.spencerserolls.com
    http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
    (707) 984-8356


    To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...

    To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
    disklavier-owner@...

    To reach our group's web site go to:
    http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

    Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03. It contains
some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things,
The url is:
    http://MuncyFamily.com

    THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
    If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.
That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If
you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
    disklavier-unsubscribe@...

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    disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  Do you Yahoo!?
  Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

  To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

  To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
  disklavier-owner@...

  To reach our group's web site go to:
  http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

  Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some
fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The
url is:
  http://MuncyFamily.com

  THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
  If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail,
go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you
insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
  disklavier-unsubscribe@...

  Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
  disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
  http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join




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    disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

At 11:08 PM 1/8/2004, Walt wrote:
 > ... I am unaware of a setting where the DKV piano will play
 > files on disk to channel 1&2 and send all other channels
 > to speakers. There are ways to edit each individual file
 > from the controller so they will eventually play for you
 > but a far better way to do that is with a computer.
 >
 > On the other hand, if I play the midi to the DKV from my
 > laptop via my USB MidiSport interface, I can set my
 > control unit so it will play channel 1 or 1&2 on the piano
 > and send all the rest to the speakers. However, I recently
 > learned that I can also set the control unit to find piano
 > parts on any channel where the various piano or piano-like
 > parts appear.
 >...

Walt,

There are 2 places on the control unit where you can enter the piano 
channel options you described.  One setting is for playing MIDI files on 
floppy directly from the control unit, the other setting is for playing the 
MIDI or "To Host" input data.  You need to set it on both places to, say, 
Prg(All), if you want MIDI data to be handled the same way whether using 
floppy or computer input.

At least, this is how it works on my MarkIIXG, as much as I can 
remember.  I apologize for not being very precise as to where these 
settings are.  I am still away from my DKV, DKV manual, and computer with 
Cakewalk, at a time all this interesting MIDI conversation is going 
on...  Very frustrating!

CCW

Sheldon, 

When I first received my disklavier (a C2) it was set up to only play 
channel 1.  There is an option that needs to be turned on.

You will notice, once you have it turned on, that the light above 
the "L" and the "R" on the control unit will be lit up (allowing you 
to mute one of the hands if you desire).  Most likely only the "L" 
side lights up currently based on what you have said.

I have forgotten what the option is right now.  It should be in the 
manual or you could just page through the options on the control unit.

I'll see if I can find it if someone else doesn't chime in with the 
answer.

Brian
--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Sheldon Deluty" <mdshd@e...> 
wrote:
> this is very interesting!
> 
> i thought i was going crazy when i would put a midi file in with 
piano on 1
> and 2 and it would only play 1, sending 2 out to the synthesizer
> 
> i have a dkv C1 baby grand, with an xg (upgraded) conroller unit
> 
> does anyone know why the dkv does this? or how to make it stop mis-
behaving?
> 
> i would second (bad pun) the recommendation that the optionbe 
available to

> do the velo modification to channel 1 only
> 
> i woudl love to hear whether other DKV users experience the same 1-2
> dysfunction that walter has mentioned
> 
> thank you for your time
> 
> sheldon deluty