Disklavier

In this global world of ours, I think it is very hard to understand how
everyone else lives.  It is quite difficult for me to understand that the
U.S. is not the center of the universe.  However, I know that air
conditioning here in the Washington D.C. area never really dries out a
house.  When the temperature and humidity is 95% outside, and the
temperature in the piano  room is about 72 degrees, the air is still damp.
I cannot imagine air conditioning in Jakarta drying out a house to 6%
relative humidity.  The problem is created by central heating, not air
conditioning!  Sometimes the relative humidity outside in my neighborhood is
26% meaning that even if I shoved my piano outside onto my deck the air
would be too dry.

I do not believe the air is ever that dry in Indonesia and other countries
near the equator.  You probably find it difficult to believe that there is a
time every year where your hardwood floors separate, your ceiling mouldings
pull away from the wall or your nose bleeds from the sheer dryness in your
home.

When pianos manufactured in Japan ( and other Asian countries), started
coming to this country in the 1960's, they litteraly fell apart on the
loading docks or soon thereafter.  You could not tune them, and the keys
warped so badly they seized up.  Now these manufacturers had been building
very nice pianos since the 1800s with no problems in their home markets.
Radical changes needed to be made in the way they were manufactured.

You really need to believe that pianos are manufactured differently for
different climate zones. In some places the market is so humid that the
piano strings are coated with phosphorus to avoid rapid corrosion.  Some
places in the world never see humidity inside lower than 40%.  It also costs
more to manufacture a piano that won't crack or warp when there is a huge
range of indoor climate between 6% and 90% RH.

There is probably nothing more that I can say about this.  Everyone makes
thieir own decisions on what they believe to be true - especially if they
think it is kind to their wallets.  Right or wrong, it is a fact that not
all pianos, even within a brand name,  are manufactured the same way.  This
is far more than a market issue.  For pianos, it is also a quality control
issue.

The reason there are gray market pianos has more of a cultural explanation. 
The global market has changed faster than how people decide what to buy. 
For instance, my experience with people who have lived in Korea, Japan and 
China is that they do not like to buy used merchandise - they buy NEW 
pianos!  On the other hand, Americans always try to make do, and believe 
that older is just as good as new and that pianos last forever.  Now you 
have the supply of used pianos in Asia with no market, and the market for 
them in the U.S.  There are many who have noticed this and are happy to 
import these pianos to the U.S. where they are sold for about half of what 
the same or similar model sells for made for the North American market. 
Unfortunately, although these pianos look great and clean (to an American, 
clean iand shiny is as good as new) they do not have the rugged 
manufacturing needed to function properly in a country where moisture in 
homes ranges from 6% to 90% RH.  These are what are know as gray market 
pianos in the U.S.


Carol Beigel




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "rondisklavier" <setiawansr@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 10:16 AM
Subject: [disklavier] Re: gray market pianos


> Carol,
>
> I am not arguing about the fairness of service. Yamaha Corp of
> America has all right to prevent losing market share. Therefore,
> they must do something about this. Actually, other international
> companies do the same strategy, for example Nikon or Sonus Faber
> (Italian Loudspeaker company, many of their products are more
> expensive than Yamaha pianos). The difference is that they do not
> say that they make different product for US market, they just purely
> try to protect their market in US which is fine and they should do
> this.
>
> All your explanation is totally making sense. The questions are from
> the Yamaha side. Are they really making pianos for North America
> market? Based on my observations and facts, it is just does not make
> sense for Yamaha to make inferior products for different market,
> because those products may be used in the similar environment in US:
>
> 1. Connectors - You said that the connection for gray market pianos
> are soldered instead of using nice connectors. The argument here is
> that Yamaha does not hire electronics technicians to build their
> piano ( I was in the factory), they hire men and women who only
> finished junior high to assemble their products. Therefore, Yamaha
> needs to ensure that their workers wil not make mistakes which
> causes Yamaha a lot of monies if they keep making unnecessary
> mistake. In addition, Yamaha is very good in quality control.
> Everyday at 3 pm, they destroyed any imperfection parts at the
> parking lot. Having said this, Yamaha cannot afford doing manual
> soldering like what found in gray market piano.
>
> 2. If the wood that Yamaha uses for non American market are not
> dried as dry as what they use for American market, the pianos that
> they produce for Asia market will crack because most people who can
> afford to buy grand piano or disklavier will first airconditioner
> their house before they are willing to pay big monies for a grand or
> a disklavier. Most likely people over there prefer having cool and
> dry living space is a higher priority to playing a grand or a
> disklav in sweat.
>
> My conclusion is that Yamaha actually makes the same quality of
> pianos for every market.
>
> RS
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I realize this gray market issue comes up regularly, and if I was
> not
>> concerned about the issue and how is so sadly affects the
> cusotmers who buy
>> these pianos, I would not bother to reply.  I have 30 years
> experience
>> servicing pianos and have never seen a gray market piano equal in
>> performance or tone, the same piano made for the North American
> market.
>> Let's take the geography out of the argument and stick to the
> indoor climate
>> model.  In North America, people's homes can range from about 6%
> to 90%
>> relative humidity during the year.  If you were to leave a pile of
> wood
>> outddoors for 4 years, the moisture content of the wood would be
> around 12%.
>> Should you build a piano from this pile of wood and place it in a
> home where
>> the relative humidity stayed below 10% for many weeks, the piano
> would have
>> problems from shrinking.  However, if you first kiln dried that
> wood down to
>> 5% moisture content and built your piano, it would not warp in low
> humidity.
>>
>> The damage done to a gray market piano is done when there is too
> much
>> dryness.  Wood swells up in high humidity as you know because the
> pitch of
>> your piano is sharp during the summer.  When you turn on your
> furnace, the
>> pitch drips dramatically because the soundboard has shrunk, or
> flattened
>> out.  If you take your nice dried out 5% moisture soundboard, and
> expose it
>> to 80% RH, it will expand. Since it has nowhere to go, it grows
> (warps) with
>> a huge crown in the middle.  The cell structure of the wood
> compresses
>> usually near the glue lines and you can see the pressure ridges.
> Left
>> without climate control, those pressure ridges become the cracks
> in the
>> soundboard you see when the piano dries out.
>>
>> Think of a piece of wood like you would holding a handfull of
> straws.
>> Moisture can only leave through the ends of the straws, and not
> the sides.
>> Wood takes on moisture very quickly, but it takes about 6 weeks
> for it to
>> leave.  Since it can only leave through the end grain of the keys,
> action
>> parts, soundboards, etc. there is flexing or warping of the wood.
> Round
>> holes become oval shaped, so any metal pins will bind.  Cloth
> bushings in
>> the keys and action parts swell.  This causes sticking keys and
> notes that
>> return slowly.  Think of a popsicle stick thrown in your front
> lawn.  It was
>> straight when you finished your popsicle, but a week later laying
> around in
>> the sun, it can be quite warped and cracked.
>>
>> Over time, this changing of moisture content is very hard on
> pianos.  That
>> is why there are piano climate control systems that are helpful
> when people
>> move from Florida to Phoenix.  If you bought your piano in the
> U.S. you will
>> find under how to care for your piano, that the relative humidity
> should be
>> kept as constant as possible and probably around 42 to 50%.
>>
>> Kiln drying wood is very expensive as it requires a lot of energy
> and time.
>> Why put a piano through this expensive process when your market is
> a place
>> where the inside of buildings will remain fairly constant?  If no
> one in
>> your market needs to heat up a furnace during cold, snowy weather,
> why
>> bother to add twice the cost of manufacturing?  That is why
> different
>> factories around the world produce pianos for different markets -
> because
>> they are located in different indoor climate zones.
>>
>> People in Europe generally do not heat their homes as dry as North
> Americans
>> do because the temperatures outdoors were milder in winter.  I
> doubt some
>> people who live in some parts of Indonesia or Asia have ever seen
> snow.  So
>> why should they pay for a piano made from kiln dried wood?
>>
>> On the other hand, people who live in most of North America will
> be sadly
>> dissappointed with a piano that was not made from kiln dried
> wood.  They
>> will have intermittent sticking keys at best.  And it they
> purchased a
>> Disklavier with electronic parts that are not UL approved, they
> will have
>> trouble finding a supplier willing to risk a product safety
> lawsuit.  The
>> world of manufacturing wood products has changed significantly in
> the past
>> 30 years.  Acid rain has been decimating spruce forests.  The
> highest
>> bidders for premium lumber often turn it into paper.
> Environmental
>> protections dictate how many vapors are allowed to evaporate off
> the finish,
>> what glues do to worker's lungs, how wood sawdust from hardwoods
> can cause
>> cancer in woodworkers, or where a manufacturer may obtain the
> leather needed
>> to cushion piano actions.  The dyes in the wool felt and cloth
> also need to
>> be considered as they can react with air pollution to cause
> premature string
>> corrosion.
>>
>> You can argue forever about the fairness of servicing or the
> manufacturing
>> of pianos for different climate zones, but it comes down to
> reality
>> eventually.  If you live in North America, purchasing a gray
> market piano is
>> not in your best interest.
>>
>> Carol Beigel
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "rondisklavier" <setiawansr@...>
>> To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:14 PM
>> Subject: [disklavier] Re: gray market disklaviers (was owners
> manual)
>>
>>
>> > Jakarata, Indonesia. They make baby grand for American market.
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, James Fry <groups@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> rondisklavier wrote:
>> >> > Carol,
>> >> >
>> >> > I used to have my practical training in Yamaha factory for my
>> >> > internship.
>> >> >
>> >> > I am not a piano sellers or have anything to do with piano
>> > industry,
>> >> > I just do not believe that Yamaha makes pianos differently for
>> >> > different market. It will cost them too much monies, in
>> > addition,
>> >> > Japanese manufacturing is very very automated so doing
> different
>> > way
>> >> > for different market is utterly impossible.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Ron - out of interest, where was the factory?
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> James
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> > 6:20 PM
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>
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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>
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>
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