Disklavier

Richard,

There is no doubt that Carol is very knowledgable in disklavier. 
However, this is a discussion group. None of the postings from the 
opposing view from that of Carol's are disrespect or codecending. 
Your posting is the one that sounded arrogant and hostile, just see 
your opening statement "Whom do you believe"

Athomik or me and others, just to try to find out the truth base on 
the size of the pianos and other means (my own experience working at 
Yamaha factory) to find out whether Yamaha really makes different 
pianos for American market. We are not advocating gray market 
pianos. Once again we just want find the truth of Yamaha statement. 
Based on the observations, it just seems very unlikely Yamaha 
changes their production processes. You can imagine how costly to 
customize every single components just for US market. On the other 
had, it will be a costly process to build non US market because they 
have to hire skillful technicians to assemble non US market pianos, 
(they have to solder things instead of using connectors). These are 
the logic that I use. If you do not agree with the logic, give us 
the reasoning. Not only saying "Whom do you believe". It is not 
conductive in a newsgroup discussion forum. It is the same like 
saying "I am the king, you listen what I say".

I personally own a disklavier so called made for American market (I 
have checked the serial number in YCA website). I am just curious 
whether there is any different between the American market's pianos 
and the non American pianos. 

RS



--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Kerr" <KerrRichardH@...> 
wrote:
>
> Whom do you believe--a highly, skilled technician, who has devoted 
a near lifetime to the art of servicing Disklaviers every day,--or 
opinionated, arrogant "experts" whose logic relies solely on 
assumption, presumption, and downright guessing for their claimed 
knowledge and expertise?
> 
> I will go with the former, whom we have all learned to trust 
implicitly for accurate, unequivocal, and above all, practical 
information and advice. It is the height of arrogance to argue and 
speculate about "in the field" experience of such significent depth 
and dimension. We are well aware of the credentials of the former. 
Where and what are the credentails of those with all the opinions?
> 
> Based upon what I have read here, this is my simple reaction to 
the purchase of gray market pianos: Caveat Emptor! Buy one if you 
wish. Why not let this rest at that?
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: athomik 
>   To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 2:43 AM
>   Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: gray market disklaviers (was 
owners manual)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Judging by the service manuals for Disklaviers (from the very 
first ones in the mid 80's right up to now) there is very little 
difference between pianos sold in different markets, at least as far 
as spare parts are concerned. For most parts, there is only one part 
number, i.e. you get the same part, wherever in the world you order 
it. The piano/case parts appear to be the same, the only difference 
lies in the electronic parts relating to the power supply area, and 
the software provided for the Japanese market to give Japanese 
displays (and even that is ofted accomplished by a simple switch 
instead of a different part). The only difference in spec for the 
North American market appeared with the new Mark IV series, where 
they get the tablet controller which is unavailable in other 
markets, and they are the only ones who currently have access to the 
latest version of the software. Even with the recently introduced 
RoHS regulation in Europe, there has been no change in part numbers, 
i.e even electronic parts shipped to the US are likley to comply 
with this European legislation - it's cheaper than setting up 
separate production lines. 
> 
>    I would assume that, since Disklaviers are pulled straight from 
the piano production line (i.e. there is absolutely no difference 
between a straight piano and a Disklavier before the addition of the 
electronics), there would be no difference between parts destined 
for different markets. 
> 
>   The one thing to bear in mind, is that upright piano models 
were/are not available in every market, so nobody outside the US 
would have ever seen any of the US produced models, the US may not 
have seen any Kemble produced models, and Japan has many models 
which were never sold anywhere else. 
> 
>   I know that at least in some European countries, there is no 
problem getting parts for grey imports, even if it takes a few weeks 
to get them from Japan, as long as the correct part can be 
identified - which can be difficult if the only available parts list 
is in Japanese. ;) The only reservation concerns electronic 
products, in that if you try to fit non-European power supply parts 
or convert a grey import to CE spec, you are treading on dodgy legal 
ground. 
> 
> 
>   athomik
> 
>   On Aug 28 2007, rondisklavier wrote: 
> 
>   >Carol,
>   >
>   >I used to have my practical training in Yamaha factory for my 
>   >internship.
>   >I asked the workers there whether they make different pianos 
for 
>   >different destination, they told me that they DID NOT make 
piano for 
>   >specific destination, all pianos were made the same. Regarding 
the 
>   >electronics connection, all connections are not soldered, 
everything 
>   >is connected by connectors. It cost too much to have 
technicians to 
>   >solder things...The chance of them making mistake is also high. 
>   >
>   >I am not a piano sellers or have anything to do with piano 
industry, 
>   >I just do not believe that Yamaha makes pianos differently for 
>   >different market. It will cost them too much monies, in 
addition, 
>   >Japanese manufacturing is very very automated so doing 
different way 
>   >for different market is utterly impossible.
>   >
>   >Ron
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" 
>   >wrote:
>   >>
>   >> Would be nice maybe, but that is not how it works. It is 
>   >extremely 
>   >> difficult to get Disklavier parts in the US for graymarket 
units. 
>   >The piano 
>   >> parts are often different as their dimensions are not always 
the 
>   >same. The 
>   >> pianos will not hold up very well in dryness caused by 
central 
>   >heating 
>   >> systems.
>   >> 
>   >> The electronic parts are not UL approved and therefore can 
create 
>   >a 
>   >> liability for the supplier. On a gray market Disklavier, many 
>   >connections 
>   >> are soldered and not easy to repair; but their made-for-the 
US 
>   >counterparts 
>   >> have nice little connectors on both the circuit boards and 
the 
>   >wires.
>   >> 
>   >> Mostly people who import gray market pianos are smaller 
operators 
>   >and 
>   >> wholesalers. They are not bound by Yamaha's service bonds 
with 
>   >their 
>   >> dealers.
>   >> 
>   >> And lastly, Yamaha is not just one big corporation. The U.S. 
>   >Division, the 
>   >> Canadian, the Japanese, etc. divisions are completely 
independent 
>   >from one 
>   >> another. They do not have a central supplier. Pianos are made 
>   >differently 
>   >> for these different markets because it costs a lot more money 
to 
>   >make a 
>   >> piano for a country that has homes whose moisture contents is 
very 
>   >low 
>   >> during winter.
>   >> 
>   >> In my opinion as a piano and Disklavier technician, I would 
never 
>   >recommend 
>   >> purchasing a graymarket piano or Disklavier. Those up front 
>   >supposed 
>   >> savings can be a huge headache if the piano ever needs 
servicing. 
>   >One good 
>   >> thunderstorm can wipe out your investment.
>   >> 
>   >> Carol Beigel
>   >> 
>   >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>   >> From: "rondisklavier" 
>   >> To: 
>   >> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:46 AM
>   >> Subject: [disklavier] Re: gray market disklaviers (was owners 
>   >manual)
>   >> 
>   >> 
>   >> >I really believe people also can get gray Yamaha parts 
easily from
>   >> > abroad. If they can import such a humagous piano, importing 
small
>   >> > parts should not be a problem. Therefore, I really do not 
think 
>   >that
>   >> > people need to worry about buying gray pianos, especially 
if the
>   >> > price is very reasonable. I myself just bought MX100II made 
for 
>   >US.
>   >> > I personally do not want to have unnecessary hazels if my 
piano 
>   >is
>   >> > broken and need to get parts from outside of the US. But 
for 
>   >those
>   >> > who have bought gray pianos, I do not think that it is the 
end of
>   >> > the world if their pianos are broken. The chance of Yamaha 
>   >pianos go
>   >> > bad is very small.
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "George F. Litterst"
>   >> > wrote:
>   >> >>
>   >> >> Good evening, everyone.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> I don't know the details about how parts are controlled. 
>   >However,
>   >> > my
>   >> >> local piano technician tells me that he is required to 
produce a
>   >> >> serial number when he orders a part from Yamaha.
>   >> >>
>   >> >> Regards,
>   >> >> PianoBench
>   >> >>
>   >> >>
>   >> >> On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:51 PM, rondisklavier wrote:
>   >> >>
>   >> >> > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "George F. Litterst"
>   >> >> > wrote:
>   >> >> > I have another question "How does Yamaha know whether 
they are
>   >> >> > selling parts to fix a gray market piano?". Does Yamaha 
only 
>   >sell
>   >> >> > parts through their dealers?
>   >> >> >
>   >> >> > >
>   >> >> > > If you purchase a piano that was not made for North 
America,
>   >> > you
>   >> >> > > cannot get parts and service from Yamaha Corporation of
>   >> > America.
>   >> >> > And,
>   >> >> > > it is advisable to keep up the relative humidity in 
your 
>   >home
>   >> >> > year
>   >> >> > > round.
>   >> >> > >
>   >> >> > > Regards,
>   >> >> > > PianoBench
>   >> >> > >
>   >> >> > >
>   >> >> > > On Aug 26, 2007, at 11:57 PM, rondisklavier wrote:
>   >> >> > >
>   >> >> > > > I always have question regarding the statement 
below. How
>   >> > Yamaha
>   >> >> > > > manufactured for special market, for example US. US 
>   >climate
>   >> > is
>   >> >> > not one
>   >> >> > > > climate. There are as many climate as those of in 
Asia 
>   >(from
>   >> >> > South
>   >> >> > > > East Asia to Japan). In addition, when I was in my 
senior
>   >> > year in
>   >> >> > > > college, I had a practical training in Yamaha 
factory in
>   >> > Jakarta,
>   >> >> > > > Indonesia, and I was not aware that they make 
different
>   >> > pianos
>   >> >> > for
>   >> >> > > > different climates.
>   >> >> > > >
>   >> >> > > > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" 
>   >
>   >> >> > > > wrote:
>   >> >> > > > Their
>   >> >> > > > > products are manufactured specifically for 
different
>   >> > markets.
>   >> >> > The
>   >> >> > > > pianos in
>   >> >> > > > > particular are not interchangeable!
>   >> >> > > > >
>   >> >> > > > >
>   >> >> > > > > Carol Beigel
>   >> >> > > > >
>   >> >> > > >
>   >> >> > > >
>   >> >> > > >
>   >> >> > >
>   >> >> >
>   >> >> >
>   >> >> >
>   >> >>
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> >
>   >> > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@
>   >> >
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founder and 
>   >> > moderator, send it to:
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>   >> >
>   >> > To reach our group's web site go to:
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>   >> >
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