This forum is highly instructive. However, may I ask what needling actually means ? And do you mean that yamaha uses actual needles on their felt ? Is that a manual process ? Pascal --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...> wrote: > > MessageOkay, I stepped into that one! Basically, voicing is a good thing. You are correct that needling hammers softens them and regular piano use recompresses the hammer felts - especially in the string grooves. What often makes a piano sound harsh and tinny, as opposed to just bright, is that the felt in the grooves cut by the strings is too hard and generates wild, high harmonics. A little touch up, or sugar coating with a voicing needle can produce a sweeter, more mellow tone in that situation. > > A good visual image is lobbing a 10 lb. bowling ball into the deep end of a quiet swimming pool.You see a cannon ball type spash at the impact, then beautiful rings spreading across the pool. When sitting at a piano, you hear the splash, while the people sitting further out in the room are hearing the rings. The splash can sound especially annoying when sitting at a grand piano. > > The objective of piano designers is to hear an explosion of sound upon impact of the hitting of the hammer against the string called an impact blow. You want the tip of the hammer to be firm, but the shoulders need to be more flexible. You open up the sound by needling the shoulders. If the hammers are too hard the sound is dull and harsh. > > Piano hammers are designed and voiced using two different philosophies. Steinway pianos are voiced using lacquer on the hammer felts. During some of my factory training at Steinway school, one of our tasks was to lacquer a set of hammers to the point of ruining the sound, then bringing it back. Yamaha uses a different method where the hammer felt is hot pressed and then voiced using needles. For me, the coolest control issue you can take charge of over the piano is being able to take the voice of a piano between bright and mellow and have absolute control of the dynamics in between. > > When you select a piano, the quality of the hammers is built into the price you pay. The more you pay the greater dynamic range is built into the possibilities of the tone. Pianos built to a lower price usually have harder felts in the hammers and higher tension stringing scales. This way affords getting more bang for the buck. These hard hammers are mightly difficult to ruin - even using vice grip pliers or steam!! > > Most people complain that their pianos are too loud not that they have too limited a dynamic range. You can have the piano hammers softened; put foam baffles both underneath the soundboard and underneath the lid, or just change the velocity parameter of the MIDI data to about 64 or lower. > > Hope this better explains "oblivion"! > > Carol Beigel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Michael Weinstock > To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:28 AM > Subject: RE: [disklavier] DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you rather own? > > > Hi Carol, > > I'm intrigued regarding a comment you made here: > > > If you don't like the sound of the piano, you can always have it voiced into oblivion > > Should I read into that that voicing can in some way cause damage if taken too far ? My understanding was that needling the hammers softened their felt thereby producing a more mellow tone, which in some cases is desirable if the tone is too bright and brassy to start with. If voicing is overdone, would not regular piano use recompress the hammer felts over time or is the situation not that simple ? > > Regards, > > Michael Weinstock > Melbourne, Australia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol Beigel > Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2008 5:15 AM > To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [disklavier] DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you rather own? > > > If you live in the United States, do not buy a gray market piano. It is > nearly impossible to get either technical support or parts. Remember, there > is a huge difference between a II and a IIXG. XGs are more flexible. If > you don't like the sound of the piano, you can always have it voiced into > oblivion or trade it in for one you like better later. > > Carol Beigel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "uhhmmmmmmmmmm" <ronjong@...> > To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:22 PM > Subject: [disklavier] DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you rather own? > > > Thank you for the confirmation. I've been browsing through this great > > messageboard for more information. I think what I'm reading is that > > people in the know generally prefer the upright U series disklaviers > > over the DGH1BII baby grands for sound. I like the look of a baby > > grand but sound is important too. > > > > I am torn between the two because I can obtain a 1992 model DGH1BII for > > around $7900 or a 1994 Japanese Market U1HQ100 for $2900 (both include > > delivery costs). Which would you choose? ;) I like the look of the > > DGH1BII but it does cost more and the sound/tuning apparently isn't as > > good. Sorry to be so flaky. I've seen both models and they look > > great, but I'm a beginning player so I really can't comment on the > > action and sound. > > > > --Ron > > > > > > > > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@... > > > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and > > moderator, send it to: > > disklavier-owner@... > > > > To reach our group's web site go to: > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier > > > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, > > go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That > > will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you > > insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to: > > disklavier-unsubscribe@... > > > > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to: > > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link: > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 > > 8:23 PM > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 13/01/2008 8:23 PM > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 13/01/2008 8:23 PM > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM >
Message
Re: DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you rather own?
2008-01-15 by ramseymonoi