Thank you. --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...> wrote: > > Voicing is what piano technicians do using needles, lacquer or steam to > adjust the tone of a piano by messing with the texture of the piano hammers. > A voicing tool can either have a single needle or 3 of them. The needles > are used at varying depths on the hammer felt in different locations on the > piano hammer to get different results. Needles called sharps in sizes 6 to > 9 are the most popular. It is an art and usually a skill learned after many > years of practice. > > Carol Beigel > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ramseymonoi" <ramseymonoi@...> > To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 9:44 AM > Subject: [disklavier] Re: DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you rather own? > > > > This forum is highly instructive. > > > > However, may I ask what needling actually means ? And do you mean > > that yamaha uses actual needles on their felt ? Is that a manual > > process ? > > > > Pascal > > > > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@> > > wrote: > >> > >> MessageOkay, I stepped into that one! Basically, voicing is a good > > thing. You are correct that needling hammers softens them and > > regular piano use recompresses the hammer felts - especially in the > > string grooves. What often makes a piano sound harsh and tinny, as > > opposed to just bright, is that the felt in the grooves cut by the > > strings is too hard and generates wild, high harmonics. A little > > touch up, or sugar coating with a voicing needle can produce a > > sweeter, more mellow tone in that situation. > >> > >> A good visual image is lobbing a 10 lb. bowling ball into the deep > > end of a quiet swimming pool.You see a cannon ball type spash at the > > impact, then beautiful rings spreading across the pool. When sitting > > at a piano, you hear the splash, while the people sitting further out > > in the room are hearing the rings. The splash can sound especially > > annoying when sitting at a grand piano. > >> > >> The objective of piano designers is to hear an explosion of sound > > upon impact of the hitting of the hammer against the string called an > > impact blow. You want the tip of the hammer to be firm, but the > > shoulders need to be more flexible. You open up the sound by > > needling the shoulders. If the hammers are too hard the sound is > > dull and harsh. > >> > >> Piano hammers are designed and voiced using two different > > philosophies. Steinway pianos are voiced using lacquer on the hammer > > felts. During some of my factory training at Steinway school, one of > > our tasks was to lacquer a set of hammers to the point of ruining the > > sound, then bringing it back. Yamaha uses a different method where > > the hammer felt is hot pressed and then voiced using needles. For > > me, the coolest control issue you can take charge of over the piano > > is being able to take the voice of a piano between bright and mellow > > and have absolute control of the dynamics in between. > >> > >> When you select a piano, the quality of the hammers is built into > > the price you pay. The more you pay the greater dynamic range is > > built into the possibilities of the tone. Pianos built to a lower > > price usually have harder felts in the hammers and higher tension > > stringing scales. This way affords getting more bang for the buck. > > These hard hammers are mightly difficult to ruin - even using vice > > grip pliers or steam!! > >> > >> Most people complain that their pianos are too loud not that they > > have too limited a dynamic range. You can have the piano hammers > > softened; put foam baffles both underneath the soundboard and > > underneath the lid, or just change the velocity parameter of the MIDI > > data to about 64 or lower. > >> > >> Hope this better explains "oblivion"! > >> > >> Carol Beigel > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Michael Weinstock > >> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 5:28 AM > >> Subject: RE: [disklavier] DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you > > rather own? > >> > >> > >> Hi Carol, > >> > >> I'm intrigued regarding a comment you made here: > >> > >> > If you don't like the sound of the piano, you can always have > > it voiced into oblivion > >> > >> Should I read into that that voicing can in some way cause damage > > if taken too far ? My understanding was that needling the hammers > > softened their felt thereby producing a more mellow tone, which in > > some cases is desirable if the tone is too bright and brassy to start > > with. If voicing is overdone, would not regular piano use recompress > > the hammer felts over time or is the situation not that simple ? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Michael Weinstock > >> Melbourne, Australia > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com > > [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carol Beigel > >> Sent: Tuesday, 15 January 2008 5:15 AM > >> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you > > rather own? > >> > >> > >> If you live in the United States, do not buy a gray market > > piano. It is > >> nearly impossible to get either technical support or parts. > > Remember, there > >> is a huge difference between a II and a IIXG. XGs are more > > flexible. If > >> you don't like the sound of the piano, you can always have it > > voiced into > >> oblivion or trade it in for one you like better later. > >> > >> Carol Beigel > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "uhhmmmmmmmmmm" <ronjong@> > >> To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> > >> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:22 PM > >> Subject: [disklavier] DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you > > rather own? > >> > >> > Thank you for the confirmation. I've been browsing through > > this great > >> > messageboard for more information. I think what I'm reading > > is that > >> > people in the know generally prefer the upright U series > > disklaviers > >> > over the DGH1BII baby grands for sound. I like the look of a > > baby > >> > grand but sound is important too. > >> > > >> > I am torn between the two because I can obtain a 1992 model > > DGH1BII for > >> > around $7900 or a 1994 Japanese Market U1HQ100 for $2900 > > (both include > >> > delivery costs). Which would you choose? ;) I like the look > > of the > >> > DGH1BII but it does cost more and the sound/tuning apparently > > isn't as > >> > good. Sorry to be so flaky. I've seen both models and they > > look > >> > great, but I'm a beginning player so I really can't comment > > on the > >> > action and sound. > >> > > >> > --Ron > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@ > >> > > >> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder > > and > >> > moderator, send it to: > >> > disklavier-owner@ > >> > > >> > To reach our group's web site go to: > >> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier > >> > > >> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? > >> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting > > too much mail, > >> > go the the web site and change your email delivery option > > instead. That > >> > will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the > > group. If you > >> > insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to: > >> > disklavier-unsubscribe@ > >> > > >> > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email > > to: > >> > disklavier-subscribe@ or give them this link: > >> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join > >> > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > No virus found in this incoming message. > >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release > > Date: 1/13/2008 > >> > 8:23 PM > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release > > Date: 13/01/2008 8:23 PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: > > 13/01/2008 8:23 PM > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------- --- > > ---------- > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: > > 1/13/2008 8:23 PM > >> > > > > > > > > > > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@... > > > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and > > moderator, send it to: > > disklavier-owner@... > > > > To reach our group's web site go to: > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier > > > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP? > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, > > go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead. That > > will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group. If you > > insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to: > > disklavier-unsubscribe@... > > > > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to: > > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link: > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date: 1/14/2008 > > 5:39 PM > > >
Message
Re: DGH1BII or U1HQ100. Which would you rather own?
2008-01-15 by ramseymonoi