Disklavier

Hi George,

Yes, we recorded again, and this time the problem went away for the 
most part.  We didn't really do anything different, but it just 
seemed to be behaving itself this time.  In about 3 hours of recorded 
material, the MIDI only dropped out once, and I can live with that...

Thanks again for everyone's help with this issue.

Tobin



--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "George F. Litterst" 
<PianoBench@...> wrote:
>
> Good afternoon, everyone.
> 
> Tobin, just checking: has everything been working correctly?
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> 
> On Aug 26, 2008, at 5:02 PM, slothmachine wrote:
> 
> > Hi George,
> >
> > A little confusion there: We recorded about 30 separate files. The
> > MIDI dropout occurs in about 15% of those files at different 
places
> > in each file (in other words, in one file it may occur 15 seconds
> > into the file, in another file it may occur 5 minutes into the 
file)
> > but in every case, the dropout lasts for 30 seconds. In any one
> > given file where the dropout occurs, however, yes, obviously the
> > dropout occurs in the same place all the time. MIDI data is
> > definitely not present during those dropouts.
> >
> > That's excellent news that a floppy should be able to hold about 2
> > hours. I think we're going to use that as a backup. If we find 
that
> > we're experiencing dropouts again, we'll immediately check the 
floppy
> > to see if it also occurred on that.
> >
> > Again, thanks for your help.
> >
> > Tobin
> >
> > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "George F. Litterst"
> > <PianoBench@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Good afternoon, everyone.
> > >
> > > I am a little confused, Tobin. On the one hand you indicated 
that
> > the
> > > dropouts on playback do not always occur in the same places each
> > time
> > > you play back a file. That tells me that all of the MIDI data is
> > > present in the file. However, you also said that you checked the
> > file
> > > and saw no MIDI data in the event list where dropouts occur.
> > >
> > > The first and most important thing is to figure out if data is
> > being
> > > continuously recorded during the performance. The event list
> > should
> > > confirm this. If the data for the entire piece is present, you
> > should
> > > be able to listen to the entire piece without dropouts by
> > directing
> > > the MIDI output of the sequencer to an internal tone generator 
on
> > your
> > > computer (QuickTime GM Synth on the Mac or Microsoft GS 
Wavetable
> > SW
> > > Synth on Windows). Playback by those 2 soft synths may be muddy
> > > (because they don't understand incremental pedaling), but you 
will
> > be
> > > able to confirm aurally that all of the notes are there.
> > >
> > > Assuming that all of the notes are there, there should be no
> > droupouts
> > > on playback by the piano. If there are, the most likely culprits
> > are:
> > >
> > > --sequencer
> > > --the MIDI cables or interface
> > > --the Disklavier
> > >
> > > In the case of the Disklavier, overheating can cause playback
> > > dropouts. However, consistent overheating usually results in an
> > error
> > > message on the control unit.
> > >
> > > If you choose to record to high density floppy disks (formatted 
as
> > > HD), you should be able to get 2 hours of normal piano playing 
on
> > a
> > > floppy (assuming that the piano is not a version called the 
Pro).
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > PianoBench
> > >
> > >
> > > On Aug 26, 2008, at 11:26 AM, slothmachine wrote:
> > >
> > > > Athomik & George,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you very much for replying with such good suggestions.
> > > > Athomik, I think your suggestion is best to actually record 
on the
> > > > piano itself, in addition to sending it through the MIDI 
outputs.
> > I
> > > > think the reason we didn't do that the first time is that 
those
> > > > floppy disks don't hold that much information, so we would 
have
> > ended
> > > > up continually replacing them. We could be wrong though about 
how
> > > > much info they hold. About how much time does one of those 
disks
> > > > hold? (I know that with MIDI it's not time that takes the 
space,
> > but
> > > > the number of notes played, but just assuming that he's 
playing
> > some
> > > > normal piano music, how much time...)
> > > >
> > > > George, to answer your questions, the dropouts don't always 
occur
> > in
> > > > the same place, but they seem to almost always last for about 
33
> > > > seconds. This is kind of what made me rule out faulty cables,
> > > > because it would just be too much of a coincidence that cables
> > would
> > > > fail, several times, each lasting 30 seconds. The behaviour 
would
> > > > seem to me that it's some device along the way, whether it's 
the
> > > > piano sending to the DKC100R, the DKC100R sending to the MIDI
> > > > interface into the computer, or the MIDI interface into the
> > computer,
> > > > that somehow gets overloaded with info and takes 30 seconds
> > > > to "restart" itself at which point it continues to spit out 
MIDI
> > info.
> > > >
> > > > The MIDI and audio both get recorded simultaneously into the
> > > > sequencer REAPER, and yes, we're certain that for those 
dropouts
> > > > there is no MIDI at all. You just have to look at an event 
list to
> > > > see that there's nothing there.
> > > >
> > > > Also George, as per your suggestion, I will instruct the 
engineer
> > to
> > > > pay close attention to the flashing lights on the MIDI 
interface
> > > > while he records to make sure that that is being recorded
> > correctly.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again for your help, I now have some very useful
> > information
> > > > for when we go into the studio next.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely,
> > > > Tobin
> > > >
> > > > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "George F. Litterst"
> > > > <PianoBench@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Good morning, everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > I recommend looking at the MIDI data carefully on the 
computer
> > and
> > > > > determine with certainty whether that MIDI data is present.
> > > > >
> > > > > Assuming that the MIDI data is present, I think that it is 
worth
> > > > > determining:
> > > > >
> > > > > --whether the dropouts always occur at the same places on
> > playback
> > > > >
> > > > > --determine what happens if you start playback at a location
> > where
> > > > > there is a dropout
> > > > >
> > > > > --look at the MIDI status LEDs on the MIDI interface (if 
there
> > are
> > > > > any) during playback and see if the interface shows MIDI 
data
> > going
> > > > to
> > > > > the piano during the dropout
> > > > >
> > > > > How are you synchronizing the audio and the data? Are they 
both
> > > > being
> > > > > played by the same sequencer?
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > > PianoBench
> > > > >
> > > > > On Aug 25, 2008, at 7:00 PM, slothmachine wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I recently had a recording session that used a 
Disklavier. We
> > > > needed
> > > > > > to record the actual piano sounds as well as get the
> > corresponding
> > > > > > MIDI. For the most part, it worked well. Our resulting 
audio
> > files
> > > > > > are great, and the corresponding MIDI almost always 
matches
> > > > > > perfectly. There were a few exceptions though. In a few 
of the
> > > > > > files, the MIDI would cut out for almost exactly 30 
seconds,
> > then
> > > > > > after that silence, it would return, still in sync with 
the
> > audio.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are a few possible explanations for this. It's 
certainly
> > > > > > possible that the MIDI interface going into the computer 
was
> > > > faulty
> > > > > > in some way (audio and MIDI both recorded into Reaper). Me
> > feeling
> > > > > > though is that it was probably something getting stuck on 
the
> > > > > > Disklavier's end. The exact devices were Disklavier II, 
and
> > the
> > > > > > controller that spit out the MIDI was a DKC100R.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has anyone else had similar issues? Any suggestions for 
how
> > to fix
> > > > > > this? We're planning on going back to the same studio, 
with
> > the
> > > > same
> > > > > > setup, in a few days, so we were hoping to have something 
new
> > to
> > > > try.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I did try searching previous posts for "lost MIDI", but 
wasn't
> > > > able
> > > > > > to find anything pertinent.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much!
>