Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-04 by <lawrence_chiu_tx3@...>

For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.

Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.

The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.

Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.

If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.

Now, If you connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?

Thank you.

RE: Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-04 by <mqphan@...>

I am not a networking expert and I am not familiar with Windows but what you described sounds like Internet Sharing on a Mac. On a Mac once you set up Internet Sharing you just use a regular Ethernet cable to connect. I suggest you not use a crossover cable but try a regular cable instead. Minh

Re: [disklavier] Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-04 by George Frederick Litterst

Good evening, everyone.

Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.

If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.

Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.

The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.

Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.

If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.

Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?

Thank you.

RE: Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-05 by <lawrence_chiu_tx3@...>

Windows calls it "ICS" or Internet Connection Sharing. The way it works is it sets up a VLAN on that port with Windows itself serving its own DHCP, gateway and DNS on that VLAN.

Say the laptop uses the home wireless network and it is on subnet 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0, after turning on ICS, ICS puts an IP address of 192.168.137.1 on the LAN port, and connecting the Disklavier shows it has the following settings:

IP 192.168.137.202

Netmask 255.255.255.0

DNS1 192.168.137.1

DNS2 <blank>

Gateway 192.168.137.1

The laptop can ping the Disklavier at that IP address successfully.

But when trying to use the Internet for say Disklavier Radio, the pocket controller says:

Failed to connect to the Internet.

Please confirm your network

environment

(CABLE,HUBS,ROUTER,etc), and

restart your Disklavier.

as if the Disklavier has no network connectivity.

I have tested the ICS function by connecting another PC to the laptop's LAN port and ICS is working perfectly. The Other PC can hit the Internet, no problem in this scenario.

Finally I tried both regular Ethernet cable and crossover-Ethernet cable, with the same result (Disklavier gets IP address but can't connect to Internet)

Thank you for all the replies.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <PianoBench@...> wrote:

Good evening, everyone.

Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.

If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.

Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.

The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.

Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.

If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.

Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?

Thank you.

RE: RE: Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-06 by <ken@...>

ICS uses Network Address Translation or NAT to route the TC/IP packets between the two networks. It's unlikely that ICS is configured to work on the ports that the Disklavier requires for communicating to the Disklavier Radio and RemoteLive servers. ICS works fine when surfing the Web with port 80 and 443 and the basic ports used for web surfing. I believe ICS has some limited capability to open or configure additional ports.

However, I suspect that even if you were able to open up all the ports that were required for Disklavier RemoteLive that the ICS network performance would suffer greatly when streaming Disklavier TV on the same computer which is hosting that ICS connection for the piano.

Also check the hosting computer's firewall to make sure you are not blocking ports there too!

I would also double check to see that the Disklavier is working normally when plugged directly into the Router so you know that there are no network problems with it.

Other thoughts: try connecting another Linux computer to your ICS host computer to make sure that ICS works fine with Linux.

Good luck!

-Ken

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <lawrence_chiu_tx3@...> wrote:

Windows calls it "ICS" or Internet Connection Sharing. The way it works is it sets up a VLAN on that port with Windows itself serving its own DHCP, gateway and DNS on that VLAN.

Say the laptop uses the home wireless network and it is on subnet 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0, after turning on ICS, ICS puts an IP address of 192.168.137.1 on the LAN port, and connecting the Disklavier shows it has the following settings:

IP 192.168.137.202

Netmask 255.255.255.0

DNS1 192.168.137.1

DNS2 <blank>

Gateway 192.168.137.1

The laptop can ping the Disklavier at that IP address successfully.

But when trying to use the Internet for say Disklavier Radio, the pocket controller says:

Failed to connect to the Internet.

Please confirm your network

environment

(CABLE,HUBS,ROUTER,etc), and

restart your Disklavier.

as if the Disklavier has no network connectivity.

I have tested the ICS function by connecting another PC to the laptop's LAN port and ICS is working perfectly. The Other PC can hit the Internet, no problem in this scenario.

Finally I tried both regular Ethernet cable and crossover-Ethernet cable, with the same result (Disklavier gets IP address but can't connect to Internet)

Thank you for all the replies.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <PianoBench@...> wrote:

Good evening, everyone.

Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.

If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.

Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.

The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.

Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.

If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.

Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?

Thank you.

Re: [disklavier] Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-06 by George Frederick Litterst

Good morning, everyone.

Lawrence, it looks to me as though you have double network address translation (NAT) going on. Let me give you an example of how IP addresses and NAT work:

All network devices have an IP address, which is similar to a phone number. Some devices have a public IP address that can be contacted directly by any other device, such as www.amazon.com. We normally don't see the actual numbers that represent the IP address of www.amazon.com, but it does have a numeric IP address which is why our computers can contact Amazon.

In our homes, all of our devices typically access the Internet through a single router. The router has a public IP address (that we normally do not see) which is assigned by our Internet service provider. The router, in turn, supplies private IP addresses (which the rest of the world cannot directly access) to all of our local devices. These private IP addresses are similar to telephone extension numbers in a business. The business usually has one publicly-facing telephone number but many extensions assigned to the various phones through the building.

When your computer attempts to access www.amazon.com, it sends a connection request through your router. Your router, in turn, creates a table in its connection log that tells it that your computer (which is assigned a particular private IP address) is attempting a connection to a particular public IP address (the address of www.amazon.com).

When www.amazon.com sends back the information that draws its web page in your browser, www.amazon.com sends that data to your public IP address, which is your router. Your router looks at its table of network address translations and realizes that your computer requested this information and then forwards the data to it.

This system of translating between public and private IP addresses is necessary because, with the current IP system, there aren't enough public addresses for every device in the work. NAT is complicated but basically works. The router also provides some firewall protection, preventing your devices from receiving data that they did not request.

If you introduce a second router into the equation, you have introduced the potential for error.

There are a variety of Internet communication protocols, some of which are simple, such as accessing email or accessing a web page. Other types of Internet communication involve unimpeded, peer-to-peer data transfer, such as a video conference. These peer-to-peer connections often do not do well when there is more than one router in the chain.

I don't know how communication works with DisklavierRadio or DisklavierTV. But, I strongly suspect that your trouble is with double NAT. Hypothetically, it might be possible to finagle the settings of the ICS setup. However, I have no experience with that and cannot provide any guidance.

I think that you will be better off with another solution. In many situations, a good solution is a wall-plugged network extender such as:

http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-XE102GNA-Wall-Plugged-Enet-Exte/dp/B000ERAIQ0

This device makes it possible to use the electrical wires in your wall as a network bridge between your piano and the router. Unless you have unusual home wiring that has isolated the wall plugs near your piano from those near your router, this is a great solution.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:17 AM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

Windows calls it "ICS" or Internet Connection Sharing. The way it works is it sets up a VLAN on that port with Windows itself serving its own DHCP, gateway and DNS on that VLAN.

Say the laptop uses the home wireless network and it is on subnet 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0, after turning on ICS, ICS puts an IP address of 192.168.137.1 on the LAN port, and connecting the Disklavier shows it has the following settings:
IP 192.168.137.202
Netmask 255.255.255.0
DNS1 192.168.137.1
DNS2
Gateway 192.168.137.1

The laptop can ping the Disklavier at that IP address successfully.

But when trying to use the Internet for say Disklavier Radio, the pocket controller says:
Failed to connect to the Internet.
Please confirm your network
environment
(CABLE,HUBS,ROUTER,etc), and
restart your Disklavier.

as if the Disklavier has no network connectivity.

I have tested the ICS function by connecting another PC to the laptop's LAN port and ICS is working perfectly. The Other PC can hit the Internet, no problem in this scenario.

Finally I tried both regular Ethernet cable and crossover-Ethernet cable, with the same result (Disklavier gets IP address but can't connect to Internet)

Thank you for all the replies.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

Good evening, everyone.

Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.

If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.

Regards,
PianoBench

On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.

Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.

The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.

Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.

If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.

Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?

Thank you.

Re: [disklavier] Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-06 by Spencer Chase

i have never used internet connection sharing and would avoid it like anything from microsoft for which there might be an alternative. letting a windows computer act as the DHCP for your network sound like an invitation to trouble. i have a fairly complicated home network with routers access points and various types of extenders etc etc. it is an absolute bitch to set up and a horror whenever anything fails but i need to do it to share a satellite connection over distance of many thousand feet. if i didn't have unusual requirements i would never consider anything more complicated than necessary. KISS is certainly the rule with networks.

Frederick, that was a great explanation of how networks work. I am going to try to find a place to file it when others ask ab out networks.

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On 9/6/2013 7:50 AM, George Frederick Litterst wrote:

\ufffd

Good morning, everyone.

Lawrence, it looks to me as though you have double network address translation (NAT) going on. Let me give you an example of how IP addresses and NAT work:

All network devices have an IP address, which is similar to a phone number. Some devices have a public IP address that can be contacted directly by any other device, such as www.amazon.com. We normally don't see the actual numbers that represent the IP address of www.amazon.com, but it does have a numeric IP address which is why our computers can contact Amazon.

In our homes, all of our\ufffddevices typically access the Internet through a single router. The router has a public IP address (that we normally do not see) which is assigned by our Internet service provider. The router, in turn, supplies private IP addresses (which the rest of the world cannot directly access) to all of our local devices. These private IP addresses are similar to telephone extension numbers in a business. The business usually has one publicly-facing telephone number but many extensions assigned to the various phones through the building.

When your computer attempts to access www.amazon.com, it sends a connection request through your router. Your router, in turn, creates a table in its connection log that tells it that your computer (which is assigned a particular private IP address) is attempting a connection to a particular public IP address (the address of www.amazon.com).\ufffd

When www.amazon.com sends back the information that draws its web page in your browser, www.amazon.com sends that data to your public IP address, which is your router. Your router looks at its table of network address translations and realizes that your computer requested this information and then forwards the data to it.

This system of translating between public and private IP addresses is necessary because, with the current IP system, there aren't enough public addresses for every device in the work. NAT is complicated but basically works. The router also provides some firewall protection, preventing your devices from receiving data that they did not request.

If you introduce a second router into the equation, you have introduced the potential for error.

There are a variety of Internet communication protocols, some of which are simple, such as accessing email or accessing a web page. Other types of Internet communication involve unimpeded, peer-to-peer data transfer, such as a video conference. These peer-to-peer connections often do not do well when there is more than one router in the chain.

I don't know how communication works with DisklavierRadio or DisklavierTV. But, I strongly suspect that your trouble is with double NAT. Hypothetically, it might be possible to finagle the settings of the ICS setup. However, I have no experience with that and cannot provide any guidance.

I think that you will be better off with another solution. In many situations, a good solution is a wall-plugged network extender such as:

http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-XE102GNA-Wall-Plugged-Enet-Exte/dp/B000ERAIQ0

This device makes it possible to use the electrical wires in your wall as a network bridge between your piano and the router. Unless you have unusual home wiring that has isolated the wall plugs near your piano from those near your router, this is a great solution.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:17 AM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

\ufffd

Windows calls it "ICS" or Internet Connection Sharing. \ufffdThe way it works is it sets up a VLAN on that port with Windows itself serving its own DHCP, gateway and DNS on that VLAN.

Say the laptop uses the home wireless network and it is on subnet 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0, after turning on ICS, ICS puts an IP address of 192.168.137.1 on the LAN port, and connecting the Disklavier shows it has the following settings:

IP 192.168.137.202

Netmask 255.255.255.0

DNS1 192.168.137.1

DNS2

Gateway 192.168.137.1

The laptop can ping the Disklavier at that IP address successfully.

But when trying to use the Internet for say Disklavier Radio, the pocket controller says:

Failed to connect to the Internet.

Please confirm your network

environment

(CABLE,HUBS,ROUTER,etc), and

restart your Disklavier.

as if the Disklavier has no network connectivity.

I have tested the ICS function by connecting another PC to the laptop's LAN port and ICS is working perfectly. \ufffdThe Other PC can hit the Internet, no problem in this scenario.

Finally I tried both regular Ethernet cable and crossover-Ethernet cable, with the same result (Disklavier gets IP address but can't connect to Internet)

Thank you for all the replies.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

Good evening, everyone.

Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.

If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.\ufffd

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

\ufffd

For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. \ufffdI was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.

Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.

The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.

Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.

If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet),\ufffdusing an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable,\ufffdyou can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.

Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. \ufffdI was wondering why this is?

Thank you.

-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

RE: Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-07 by <rightnightboy@...>

Thank you George for your great explanation about the IP adresses and so on. I finally clearly understand !!! Maybe this should be postede in the files of this group as reference for newbies or just not tech oriented disklavier owners .

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <lists@...> wrote:

i have never used internet connection sharing and would avoid it like anything from microsoft for which there might be an alternative. letting a windows computer act as the DHCP for your network sound like an invitation to trouble. i have a fairly complicated home network with routers access points and various types of extenders etc etc. it is an absolute bitch to set up and a horror whenever anything fails but i need to do it to share a satellite connection over distance of many thousand feet. if i didn't have unusual requirements i would never consider anything more complicated than necessary. KISS is certainly the rule with networks.

Frederick, that was a great explanation of how networks work. I am going to try to find a place to file it when others ask ab out networks.

On 9/6/2013 7:50 AM, George Frederick Litterst wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

Good morning, everyone.

Lawrence, it looks to me as though you have double network address translation (NAT) going on. Let me give you an example of how IP addresses and NAT work:

All network devices have an IP address, which is similar to a phone number. Some devices have a public IP address that can be contacted directly by any other device, such as www.amazon.com. We normally don't see the actual numbers that represent the IP address of www.amazon.com, but it does have a numeric IP address which is why our computers can contact Amazon.

In our homes, all of our devices typically access the Internet through a single router. The router has a public IP address (that we normally do not see) which is assigned by our Internet service provider. The router, in turn, supplies private IP addresses (which the rest of the world cannot directly access) to all of our local devices. These private IP addresses are similar to telephone extension numbers in a business. The business usually has one publicly-facing telephone number but many extensions assigned to the various phones through the building.

When your computer attempts to access www.amazon.com, it sends a connection request through your router. Your router, in turn, creates a table in its connection log that tells it that your computer (which is assigned a particular private IP address) is attempting a connection to a particular public IP address (the address of www.amazon.com).

When www.amazon.com sends back the information that draws its web page in your browser, www.amazon.com sends that data to your public IP address, which is your router. Your router looks at its table of network address translations and realizes that your computer requested this information and then forwards the data to it.

This system of translating between public and private IP addresses is necessary because, with the current IP system, there aren't enough public addresses for every device in the work. NAT is complicated but basically works. The router also provides some firewall protection, preventing your devices from receiving data that they did not request.

If you introduce a second router into the equation, you have introduced the potential for error.

There are a variety of Internet communication protocols, some of which are simple, such as accessing email or accessing a web page. Other types of Internet communication involve unimpeded, peer-to-peer data transfer, such as a video conference. These peer-to-peer connections often do not do well when there is more than one router in the chain.

I don't know how communication works with DisklavierRadio or DisklavierTV. But, I strongly suspect that your trouble is with double NAT. Hypothetically, it might be possible to finagle the settings of the ICS setup. However, I have no experience with that and cannot provide any guidance.

I think that you will be better off with another solution. In many situations, a good solution is a wall-plugged network extender such as:

http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-XE102GNA-Wall-Plugged-Enet-Exte/dp/B000ERAIQ0

This device makes it possible to use the electrical wires in your wall as a network bridge between your piano and the router. Unless you have unusual home wiring that has isolated the wall plugs near your piano from those near your router, this is a great solution.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:17 AM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

Windows calls it "ICS" or Internet Connection Sharing. The way it works is it sets up a VLAN on that port with Windows itself serving its own DHCP, gateway and DNS on that VLAN.

Say the laptop uses the home wireless network and it is on subnet 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0, after turning on ICS, ICS puts an IP address of 192.168.137.1 on the LAN port, and connecting the Disklavier shows it has the following settings:

IP 192.168.137.202

Netmask 255.255.255.0

DNS1 192.168.137.1

DNS2 <blank>

Gateway 192.168.137.1

The laptop can ping the Disklavier at that IP address successfully.

But when trying to use the Internet for say Disklavier Radio, the pocket controller says:

Failed to connect to the Internet.

Please confirm your network

environment

(CABLE,HUBS,ROUTER,etc), and

restart your Disklavier.

as if the Disklavier has no network connectivity.

I have tested the ICS function by connecting another PC to the laptop's LAN port and ICS is working perfectly. The Other PC can hit the Internet, no problem in this scenario.

Finally I tried both regular Ethernet cable and crossover-Ethernet cable, with the same result (Disklavier gets IP address but can't connect to Internet)

Thank you for all the replies.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <PianoBench@...> wrote:

Good evening, everyone.

Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.

If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:

For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.

Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.

The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.

Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.

If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.

Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?

Thank you.

-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: [disklavier] Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-07 by Adrian Thomas

Since Disklaviers acquired network capabilities, I've found that mains based (wall plug) connections are the next best thing to directly wired ethernet connections. I've had a lot of customers who had problems due to interference from other wireless networks, thick stone walls, etc.

Adrian Thomas

On Sep 6 2013, George Frederick Litterst wrote:

>Good morning, everyone.
>
>Lawrence, it looks to me as though you have double network address translation (NAT) going on. Let me give you an example of how IP addresses and NAT work:
>
>All network devices have an IP address, which is similar to a phone number. Some devices have a public IP address that can be contacted directly by any other device, such as www.amazon.com. We normally don't see the actual numbers that represent the IP address of www.amazon.com, but it does have a numeric IP address which is why our computers can contact Amazon.
>
>In our homes, all of our devices typically access the Internet through a single router. The router has a public IP address (that we normally do not see) which is assigned by our Internet service provider. The router, in turn, supplies private IP addresses (which the rest of the world cannot directly access) to all of our local devices. These private IP addresses are similar to telephone extension numbers in a business. The business usually has one publicly-facing telephone number but many extensions assigned to the various phones through the building.
>
>When your computer attempts to access www.amazon.com, it sends a connection request through your router. Your router, in turn, creates a table in its connection log that tells it that your computer (which is assigned a particular private IP address) is attempting a connection to a particular public IP address (the address of www.amazon.com).
>
>When www.amazon.com sends back the information that draws its web page in your browser, www.amazon.com sends that data to your public IP address, which is your router. Your router looks at its table of network address translations and realizes that your computer requested this information and then forwards the data to it.
>
>This system of translating between public and private IP addresses is necessary because, with the current IP system, there aren't enough public addresses for every device in the work. NAT is complicated but basically works. The router also provides some firewall protection, preventing your devices from receiving data that they did not request.
>
>If you introduce a second router into the equation, you have introduced the potential for error.
>
>There are a variety of Internet communication protocols, some of which are simple, such as accessing email or accessing a web page. Other types of Internet communication involve unimpeded, peer-to-peer data transfer, such as a video conference. These peer-to-peer connections often do not do well when there is more than one router in the chain.
>
>I don't know how communication works with DisklavierRadio or DisklavierTV. But, I strongly suspect that your trouble is with double NAT. Hypothetically, it might be possible to finagle the settings of the ICS setup. However, I have no experience with that and cannot provide any guidance.
>
>I think that you will be better off with another solution. In many situations, a good solution is a wall-plugged network extender such as:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-XE102GNA-Wall-Plugged-Enet-Exte/dp/B000ERAIQ0
>
>This device makes it possible to use the electrical wires in your wall as a network bridge between your piano and the router. Unless you have unusual home wiring that has isolated the wall plugs near your piano from those near your router, this is a great solution.
>
>Regards,
>PianoBench
>
>On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:17 AM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:
>
>>
>> Windows calls it "ICS" or Internet Connection Sharing. The way it works is it sets up a VLAN on that port with Windows itself serving its own DHCP, gateway and DNS on that VLAN.
>>
>>
>>
>> Say the laptop uses the home wireless network and it is on subnet 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0, after turning on ICS, ICS puts an IP address of 192.168.137.1 on the LAN port, and connecting the Disklavier shows it has the following settings:
>>
>> IP 192.168.137.202
>>
>> Netmask 255.255.255.0
>>
>> DNS1 192.168.137.1
>>
>> DNS2
>>
>> Gateway 192.168.137.1
>>
>>
>>
>> The laptop can ping the Disklavier at that IP address successfully.
>>
>>
>>
>> But when trying to use the Internet for say Disklavier Radio, the pocket controller says:
>>
>> Failed to connect to the Internet.
>>
>> Please confirm your network
>>
>> environment
>>
>> (CABLE,HUBS,ROUTER,etc), and
>>
>> restart your Disklavier.
>>
>>
>>
>> as if the Disklavier has no network connectivity.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have tested the ICS function by connecting another PC to the laptop's LAN port and ICS is working perfectly. The Other PC can hit the Internet, no problem in this scenario.
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally I tried both regular Ethernet cable and crossover-Ethernet cable, with the same result (Disklavier gets IP address but can't connect to Internet)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for all the replies.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>>
>> Good evening, everyone.
>>
>> Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.
>>
>> If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.
>>
>> Regards,
>> PianoBench
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.
>>
>> The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.
>>
>> Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.
>>
>> If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.
>>
>> Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

RE: Connect Disklavier to Internet via crossover cable

2013-09-09 by <lawrence_chiu_tx3@...>

My original reason for asking is because the laptop is already there for Disklavier TV. Most laptops have both wireless and LAN interfaces. If I could just use the LAN interface for Disklavier, it would eliminate:

1 router/bridge

1 ethernet cable

so why not try?

http://i.imgur.com/stkSsOr.png

I finally got it working. The problem is Windows ICS is not a very good NAT program and definitely won't work. Instead, I got it working with a 3rd-party Windows NAT software called NAT32-Second Edition. From here: http://v2.nat32.com/index.html

The software looks very complicated but actually is very simple.

First, leave the wireless interface alone as it is already working with Internet. Let's say IP = 192.168.0.50/255.255.255.0 (this is already assigned and working by the DHCP in main router).

Now, assign the LAN one a static IP address is its own subnet. Say 192.168.1.50/255.255.255.0. Leave gateway blank and DNS blank.

Next, Install NAT32 software, then run it. Inside the GUI, choose install driver. Then terminate it and restart it.

Then go to configure interfaces. Set the Wireless interface to "Internet"

Set the LAN interface to "Private". Then next screen.

Next two screens you set options for the two interfaces. I just left things alone at default and click "Apply" twice.

That's it. Works fine and eliminates a router/bridge and one ugly ethernet cable from my setup. I used a cross-over Ethernet cable from Disklavier to laptop. Tested working with RemoteLive and also Disklavier Radio.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <mangez@...> wrote:

Since Disklaviers acquired network capabilities, I've found that mains based (wall plug) connections are the next best thing to directly wired ethernet connections. I've had a lot of customers who had problems due to interference from other wireless networks, thick stone walls, etc.

Adrian Thomas

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On Sep 6 2013, George Frederick Litterst wrote:

>Good morning, everyone.
>
>Lawrence, it looks to me as though you have double network address translation (NAT) going on. Let me give you an example of how IP addresses and NAT work:
>
>All network devices have an IP address, which is similar to a phone number. Some devices have a public IP address that can be contacted directly by any other device, such as www.amazon.com. We normally don't see the actual numbers that represent the IP address of www.amazon.com, but it does have a numeric IP address which is why our computers can contact Amazon.
>
>In our homes, all of our devices typically access the Internet through a single router. The router has a public IP address (that we normally do not see) which is assigned by our Internet service provider. The router, in turn, supplies private IP addresses (which the rest of the world cannot directly access) to all of our local devices. These private IP addresses are similar to telephone extension numbers in a business. The business usually has one publicly-facing telephone number but many extensions assigned to the various phones through the building.
>
>When your computer attempts to access www.amazon.com, it sends a connection request through your router. Your router, in turn, creates a table in its connection log that tells it that your computer (which is assigned a particular private IP address) is attempting a connection to a particular public IP address (the address of www.amazon.com).
>
>When www.amazon.com sends back the information that draws its web page in your browser, www.amazon.com sends that data to your public IP address, which is your router. Your router looks at its table of network address translations and realizes that your computer requested this information and then forwards the data to it.
>
>This system of translating between public and private IP addresses is necessary because, with the current IP system, there aren't enough public addresses for every device in the work. NAT is complicated but basically works. The router also provides some firewall protection, preventing your devices from receiving data that they did not request.
>
>If you introduce a second router into the equation, you have introduced the potential for error.
>
>There are a variety of Internet communication protocols, some of which are simple, such as accessing email or accessing a web page. Other types of Internet communication involve unimpeded, peer-to-peer data transfer, such as a video conference. These peer-to-peer connections often do not do well when there is more than one router in the chain.
>
>I don't know how communication works with DisklavierRadio or DisklavierTV. But, I strongly suspect that your trouble is with double NAT. Hypothetically, it might be possible to finagle the settings of the ICS setup. However, I have no experience with that and cannot provide any guidance.
>
>I think that you will be better off with another solution. In many situations, a good solution is a wall-plugged network extender such as:
>
>http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-XE102GNA-Wall-Plugged-Enet-Exte/dp/B000ERAIQ0
>
>This device makes it possible to use the electrical wires in your wall as a network bridge between your piano and the router. Unless you have unusual home wiring that has isolated the wall plugs near your piano from those near your router, this is a great solution.
>
>Regards,
>PianoBench
>
>On Sep 5, 2013, at 10:17 AM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:
>
>>
>> Windows calls it "ICS" or Internet Connection Sharing. The way it works is it sets up a VLAN on that port with Windows itself serving its own DHCP, gateway and DNS on that VLAN.
>>
>>
>>
>> Say the laptop uses the home wireless network and it is on subnet 192.168.0.0/255.255.255.0, after turning on ICS, ICS puts an IP address of 192.168.137.1 on the LAN port, and connecting the Disklavier shows it has the following settings:
>>
>> IP 192.168.137.202
>>
>> Netmask 255.255.255.0
>>
>> DNS1 192.168.137.1
>>
>> DNS2
>>
>> Gateway 192.168.137.1
>>
>>
>>
>> The laptop can ping the Disklavier at that IP address successfully.
>>
>>
>>
>> But when trying to use the Internet for say Disklavier Radio, the pocket controller says:
>>
>> Failed to connect to the Internet.
>>
>> Please confirm your network
>>
>> environment
>>
>> (CABLE,HUBS,ROUTER,etc), and
>>
>> restart your Disklavier.
>>
>>
>>
>> as if the Disklavier has no network connectivity.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have tested the ICS function by connecting another PC to the laptop's LAN port and ICS is working perfectly. The Other PC can hit the Internet, no problem in this scenario.
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally I tried both regular Ethernet cable and crossover-Ethernet cable, with the same result (Disklavier gets IP address but can't connect to Internet)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for all the replies.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
>>
>> Good evening, everyone.
>>
>> Lawrence, have you checked the IP address of the Disklavier in this situation and compared it to the IP address of the PC? I am wondering if the PC is functioning as a DHCP server and providing the Disklavier with an IP address or whether the Disklavier is getting an IP address from the address pool from the router, which would mean that it's IP address is similar to that of the PC.
>>
>> If the PC is providing it with an IP address, then there is double network address translation going on.
>>
>> Regards,
>> PianoBench
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2013, at 3:10 PM, lawrence_chiu_tx3@... wrote:
>>
>>
>> For those people who connect their Disklavier to the Internet, I guess many of you are using an Internet router or bridge. I was wondering if anyone has done this however since there is already a laptop connected for RemoteLive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's say the laptop has a LAN port and a Wireless card, so it has two network interfaces.
>>
>> The laptop is connected to the Internet via Wireless and everything is tested working.
>>
>> Then you tell Windows to "Share" the wireless adapter's Internet connection and select the LAN port to bridge to it.
>>
>> If you then test this by connecting a PC to it via the LAN port (the PC has no other ways to access the Internet), using an Ethernet "crossover" (usually orange color) cable, you can verify that this works just fine and the PC can get to the Internet.
>>
>> Now, If y ou connect the crossover cable to the Disklavier, it appears that the Disklavier will get its IP address, gateway, and DNS, but for some reason, the Pocket Controller still says it has no connection to the Internet. I was wondering why this is?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>