Disklavier

Hi All
The problem of volume with piano music has been an issue for me for some
time. I market MIDI files optimised to suit a Disklavier. I use a MIDI
velocity range of around 35 to 85. Any lower, and turning down the DKV
volume could cause low velocity notes to miss. Any louder and the listener
will want to turn it down. Sample files are on my website at
www.petersmidi.com.

On occasions my customers have an electronic piano. Recently, a customer
sent me "edited" versions of some of my files, in the belief he had
improved them. I checked first (fortunately), and found he had changed the
MIDI velocity range from my values to a minimum of 87 and a max of 127.
Even then, he complained, the files are not loud enough on his electronic
piano.

So, when it comes to volume, there is clearly a huge difference between an
acoustic and an electronic piano. But making the two have a similar volume
would probably mean fitting huge, efficient speakers to the electronic
version, and powering them with a super hi-power amp. After all, the sound
board in an acoustic instrument has far more surface area than a typical
speaker, let alone all the other factors that collectively make a
conventional piano capable of its dynamic range.

Whenever I download files from the internet, I first check the MIDI levels,
as most files are far too loud for an acoustic piano. As well, according to
a research paper I have somewhere on my computer, the Disklavier is at
maximum volume at around MIDI 95. Higher velocities therefore make no
difference.

I use a simple MIDI utility called Veloset to adjust MIDI levels in piano
music files. However, I always advise people to keep a copy of the original
file, as it is impossible to restore a file to its original dynamics after
making changes.

Peter Phillips


From Peter Phillips, Electronic Editorials NSW. Phone (02) 9773 4734,
mobile 0418 407 607, fax (02) 9773 9943. Website at
http://members.optushome.com.au/eleced/index.htm

It might be helpful to remind Disklavier owners that the "volume" has different aspects than can be adjusted by the user, no matter what model of Disklavier is being used. Basically, there are 3 areas you can do something about: MIDI data, voicing the piano hammers, and controlling the sound coming from the piano soundboard.

First, the MIDI data control velocity is set somewhere between 0 and 128. Most Yamaha Pianosoft disks have a default velocity (volume) setting of 100. To my ears this is too loud. QRS uses a constant 64 setting, but has less dynamic range. I sometimes question the need for a great dynamic range greater than 20 points. The Fix: use the Veloset utility to lower the velocity settings for the ESEQ files (or MIDI files). Pull up the bottom to around 40, and limit the top velocity setting to 65 or so. Remember though, to make copies of your original disks first, as these programs overwrite the data it is looking at. For my own enjoyment, I have made a separate set of disks (or files on a playlist) that lower the velocity and dynamic range. Since many of you already have playlists of files for your Disklaviers, make a copy of these lists and run a batch fix on the entire list. This is the data that is sent to the solenoids that determines how fast they respond. Faster response is louder, lower numbers are softer.

Second, the hammer voicing on your piano. A piano only plays as quietly as a person playing it can. Some solenoid systems can pulse more quietly than others mimicking this effect. As pianos get played, the felt in the hammers that hit the strings gets harder. You can probably see grooves cut into the tops of the piano hammers. The felt in the bottom of the grooves gets more compacted each time the note is played. What is usually needed is for the piano technician to "needle" the hammer grooves to soften the felt. Every time I tune a piano, I touch up the voicing in the piano hammers in this manner. Makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the sound. Some of you have pianos that were designed with very hard hammers - especially the smaller pianos. Back in the years they were released, I needed to steam these hammers to get them soft enough, or use major voicing needle techiques to get them resilient enough. Your piano technician should be able to help soften the piano hammers to get a more mellow voice.

The third aspect to quieting a piano is absorbing the sound it makes before it goes out into the room. This is done with foam baffles or placing carpeting or large pillows underneath the piano. I have never had an unhappy outcome as long as I placed 2 layers of foam stuffed under the soundboard along with a blanket of foam tucked inside the lid. This foam sandwich works better than just foam placed on one side of the soundboard. I use a special pour of foam made for sound absorption, but even styrofoam egg cartons stuffed with styrofoam packing peanuts will go a long way to helping this.

The reason "volume control" does not work the same for all Disklaviers is due more to the pianos than the electronics used to play them. You can put a different limit to the value of energy that activates the solenoids, but in the end, what you are hearing in acoustic mode is the piano hammer hitting the strings. This is why action regulation and voicing, along with tuning, are essential in keeping your piano playing beautifully.

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message -----

Ron, on the MK4 the Volume control on the PRC is pretty much as discussed below by Carol, they use the word 'volume control' but it's really just a cap to the loudist velocity with a few 'normalizing tricks'.

The gray bar is a 'recommended' minimum setting for the 'volume'. Yamaha have this so they can say "I told you so" because they don't want customers putting the piano at say 2 and then question why songs sound "dead".

The MK4 piano is very good at handling this than older upright Disklaviers, there whole way of controlling the solidnoids is very smooth and accurate with the whole optics gray scale sensors etc. 

I find that a volume of 80 is the lowest I wish to go to, otherwise the particular key strikes that the 'piano player' did get absorbed. I play by ear and just love a vibrant clear piano. But ofcorse there are times when I just want a quiet piano in the background so setting it to 10 works fine.

A piano needs a good room to be appreciated. I have grave concerns when people want to muffle the piano with all these other methods. Yamaha pianos are known to be 'brighter' than other brands, in many ways this ensures a modern, crisp clear sound. It also allows the piano to keep 'singing' even at 20 years old. Ofcorse a over hard hammer is not good either.

Cheers,

Philip







________________________________
From: Ron Ayanzen <ayanzen@...>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 26 March, 2010 7:35:11 AM
Subject: RE: [disklavier] Disklavier volume

  
Carol,
 
Thank you for your very detailed explanation.  What, then, does the 'Voulme Control' in the upper left corner of the PRC set?  I'm referring to the horotonal red bar which, if I'm not mistaken, ranges from 0 to 127.  Is this the velocity of the hammer?  Also, what about the shorter gray horozontal bar, which is parallel to and immediately below the red bar?  What does that indicate?
 
ron
 

________________________________
 To: disklavier@yahoogro ups.com
From: thecarolb@comcast. net
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:29:33 -0400
Subject: [disklavier] Disklavier volume

  
It might be helpful to remind Disklavier owners that the "volume" has different aspects than can be adjusted by the user, no matter what model of Disklavier is being used.  Basically, there are 3 areas you can do something about:  MIDI data, voicing the piano hammers, and controlling the sound coming from the piano soundboard.
 
First, the MIDI data control velocity is set somewhere between 0 and 128.  Most Yamaha Pianosoft disks have a default velocity (volume) setting of 100.  To my ears this is too loud.  QRS uses a constant 64 setting, but has less dynamic range.  I sometimes question the need for a great dynamic range greater than 20 points.  The Fix:  use the Veloset utility to lower the velocity settings for the ESEQ files (or MIDI files).  Pull up the bottom to around 40, and limit the top velocity setting to 65 or so.  Remember though, to make copies of your original disks first, as these programs overwrite the data it is looking at.  For my own enjoyment, I have made a separate set of disks (or files on a playlist) that lower the velocity and dynamic range.  Since many of you already have playlists of files for your Disklaviers, make a copy of these lists and run a batch fix on the entire list.  This is the data that is sent to the solenoids that determines how fast
 they respond.  Faster response is louder, lower numbers are softer.
 
Second, the hammer voicing on your piano.  A piano only plays as quietly as a person playing it can. Some solenoid systems can pulse more quietly than others mimicking this effect.   As pianos get played, the felt in the hammers that hit the strings gets harder.  You can probably see grooves cut into the tops of the piano hammers.  The felt in the bottom of the grooves gets more compacted each time the note is played.  What is usually needed is for the piano technician to "needle" the hammer grooves to soften the felt.  Every time I tune a piano, I touch up the voicing in the piano hammers in this manner.  Makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the sound.  Some of you have pianos that were designed with very hard hammers - especially the smaller pianos.  Back in the years they were released, I needed to steam these hammers to get them soft enough, or use major voicing needle techiques to get them resilient enough.  Your piano technician should be able
 to help soften the piano hammers to get a more mellow voice.
 
The third aspect to quieting a piano is absorbing the sound it makes before it goes out into the room.  This is done with foam baffles or placing carpeting or large pillows underneath the piano.  I have never had an unhappy outcome as long as I placed 2 layers of foam stuffed under the soundboard along with a blanket of foam tucked inside the lid.  This foam sandwich works better than just foam placed on one side of the soundboard.  I use a special pour of foam made for sound absorption, but even styrofoam egg cartons stuffed with styrofoam packing peanuts will go a long way to helping this.  
 
The reason "volume control" does not work the same for all Disklaviers is due more to the pianos than the electronics used to play them.  You can put a different limit to the value of energy that activates the solenoids, but in the end, what you are hearing in acoustic mode is the piano hammer hitting the strings.  This is why action regulation and voicing, along with tuning, are essential in keeping your piano playing beautifully.
 
Carol Beigel
 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
>From: Kevin Goroway 
>To: disklavier@yahoogro ups.com 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:07 PM
>Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
>
>
>I was under the impression that the minimum volume is mostly controlled by the sensitivity of the solenoids that activate the keys.  If that is the case...no software upgrade will be able to affect that...
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________

 From: Mark in Idaho <MarkGMID@cableone. net>
>To: disklavier@yahoogro ups.com
>Sent: Wed, March 24, 2010 6:22:15 PM
>Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
>
>  
>Bill Brandon,
>
>Yamaha has made a BIG mistake by not including a better volume control. This is like Toyota continuing to sell cars with accelerator problems. They could have hit it out of the park with a volume control that offered a lower volume and an option of linear or progressive volume reduction. This could all have been done with software. 
>
>Additional volume control only would have almost made the price worthwhile.
>
>How does Yamaha get their feedback before designing an upgrade like this?
>
>Mark in Idaho
>
>On 3/24/2010 12:08 PM, Bill Brandom wrote: 
>
>  
>> 
>>

Good morning, everyone.

Just to be clear, the volume number on the M4 is not a MIDI velocity number. It is an overall setting. The normal setting is 100.

The volume design of the M4 is a little different than it is for other models of Disklavier. With a M4, you can actually push the volume to a higher-than-normal setting.

With other models, the volume range is -10 to 0 with 0 being normal.

Regards,
PianoBench

Greetings athomik,

can it play softer than a Live Performance LX in a well regulated
piano?

Friday, March 26, 2010, 4:40:48 AM, you wrote: >   
> For those contemplating the purchase of a Disklavier, it might also
> be worth mentioning that developments since the Mark IV came out,
> mean that the newer Disklavier E3 (which was specifically designed
> for the home user) can play at lower levels than any player piano
> available today, including the Mark IV

> athomik

> 
 

-- Best regards,
 mailto:lists@spencerserolls.com 
67550 Bell Springs Rd. 
Garberville,CA 95542 Postal service only. 
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@... 
http://www.spencerserolls.com 
(707) 984-8356 
(707) 972-3149

I just used the term 'velocity' to explain how how it works without getting into detail that will only confuse people. But yeup the volume on the MK4 is a clever mix of methods to simulate a 'volume' control.

However I never put the volume much more than 100 as some songs really 'bash' the crap out of the keys, but then again, some songs need a boost!

Cheers,

Philip



________________________________

From: George F. Litterst <PianoBench@aol.com>
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 27 March, 2010 12:55:38 AM
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Disklavier volume

  
Good morning, everyone.

Just to be clear, the volume number on the M4 is not a MIDI velocity number. It is an overall setting. The normal setting is 100.

The volume design of the M4 is a little different than it is for other models of Disklavier. With a M4, you can actually push the volume to a higher-than- normal setting.

With other models, the volume range is -10 to 0 with 0 being normal.

Regards,
PianoBench

make that "...can PROBABLY play at lower levels than the New PRO". You would really have to have them all side by side for a realistic evaluaton.

athomik

On Mar 26 2010, Spencer_Lists wrote:

>Greetings athomik,
>
>can it play softer than a Live Performance LX in a well regulated
>piano?
>
>Friday, March 26, 2010, 4:40:48 AM, you wrote: >
>> For those contemplating the purchase of a Disklavier, it might also
>> be worth mentioning that developments since the Mark IV came out,
>> mean that the newer Disklavier E3 (which was specifically designed
>> for the home user) can play at lower levels than any player piano
>> available today, including the Mark IV
>
>> athomik
>
>>
>
>
>

I found that the new DGB1KE3 seems to be too loud even when I set the volume dial to -10, although I read somewhere that the E3 can play at lower volume than other models. I have looked through the comments on the site on this issue, and have a few questions to ask. Sorry in advance in case I misunderstand what I read.

1. Carol said to use Veloset to pull the bottom up to about 40 and the top down to 65 or so. When I look into the velocity distribution of a certain MIDI file in Veloset, I see a range of 6-98 or so for the distribution. I can certainly pull the top down to 65, but why should I pull the bottom up? By so doing, am I reducing the dynamic range even further, which is something we would not want? In other words, should I or should I not keep the low end as is, and only lower the top end?

2. Assuming the Disklavier is properly calibrated, what is the lowest velocity number that can be still be played and heard (in theory)? Is there a technical reason why the keys can't be played at a lower volume than the current standard setup (max velocity at 100 for Yamaha music and -10 for lowest volume setting)? I imagine that the re-distribution of the velocities can be done in real time at the Disklavier control box, something like a user-adjusted graphic equalizer. Does the E3-PRO have this kind of feature?

3. How do I make velocity change in batch, say for all files in a particular folder, instead of doing it one file by one file? I looked at Veloset but failed to see what I should do for batch processing.

4. Is there any equivalent app like Veloset for the Mac? Veloset is such a neat utility for what it does which is automatic re-assiging the velocity for each note without significantly messing up the overall distribution, hence the human dimension of the music. My understanding is that if we set all the notes to a fixed velocity, that piece of music which will sound robotic.

I appreciate any comments and/or instructions.

Minh

I also think they are too loud but I put a rug under the piano and you could also stuff some acoustic foam tiles under the soundboard which I felt made a significant difference. If your piano has a silent system you can play the piano ultra quiet through the speaker system but this will not be the acoustic piano playing anymore. I found that adjusting the midi files did not make much of a difference at all to the volume playback and you lost a lot of the dynamics of the songs if I turned the max volume down too much on the midi file.

Regards

Donal

On 5 Sep 2013, at 21:45, mqphan@... wrote:

> I found that the new DGB1KE3 seems to be too loud even when I set the volume dial to -10, although I read somewhere that the E3 can play at lower volume than other models. I have looked through the comments on the site on this issue, and have a few questions to ask.  Sorry in advance in case I misunderstand what I read.
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Carol said to use Veloset to pull the bottom up to about 40 and the top down to 65 or so.  When I look into the velocity distribution of a certain MIDI file in Veloset, I see a range of 6-98 or so for the distribution.  I can certainly pull the top down to 65, but why should I pull the bottom up? By so doing, am I reducing the dynamic range even further, which is something we would not want?  In other words, should I or should I not keep the low end as is, and only lower the top end?
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Assuming the Disklavier is properly calibrated, what is the lowest velocity number that can be still be played and heard (in theory)? Is there a technical reason why the keys can't be played at a lower volume than the current standard setup (max velocity at 100 for Yamaha music and -10 for lowest volume setting)?  I imagine that the re-distribution of the velocities can be done in real time at the Disklavier control box, something like a user-adjusted graphic equalizer.  Does the E3-PRO have this kind of feature?
> 
> 
> 
> 3. How do I make velocity change in batch, say for all files in a particular folder, instead of doing it one file by one file?  I looked at Veloset but failed to see what I should do for batch processing.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Is there any equivalent app like Veloset for the Mac? Veloset is such a neat utility for what it does which is automatic re-assiging the velocity for each note without significantly messing up the overall distribution, hence the human dimension of the music. My understanding is that if we set all the notes to a fixed velocity, that piece of music which will sound robotic.
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate any comments and/or instructions.
> 
> 
> 
> Minh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <disklavier@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> 
> It might be helpful to remind Disklavier owners that the "volume" has different aspects than can be adjusted by the user, no matter what model of Disklavier is being used.  Basically, there are 3 areas you can do something about:  MIDI data, voicing the piano hammers, and controlling the sound coming from the piano soundboard.
>  
> First, the MIDI data control velocity is set somewhere between 0 and 128.  Most Yamaha Pianosoft disks have a default velocity (volume) setting of 100.  To my ears this is too loud.  QRS uses a constant 64 setting, but has less dynamic range.  I sometimes question the need for a great dynamic range greater than 20 points.  The Fix:  use the Veloset utility to lower the velocity settings for the ESEQ files (or MIDI files).  Pull up the bottom to around 40, and limit the top velocity setting to 65 or so.  Remember though, to make copies of your original disks first, as these programs overwrite the data it is looking at.  For my own enjoyment, I have made a separate set of disks (or files on a playlist) that lower the velocity and dynamic range.  Since many of you already have playlists of files for your Disklaviers, make a copy of these lists and run a batch fix on the entire list.  This is the data that is sent to the solenoids that determines how fast they respond.  Faster response is louder, lower numbers are softer.
>  
> Second, the hammer voicing on your piano.  A piano only plays as quietly as a person playing it can. Some solenoid systems can pulse more quietly than others mimicking this effect.   As pianos get played, the felt in the hammers that hit the strings gets harder.  You can probably see grooves cut into the tops of the piano hammers.  The felt in the bottom of the grooves gets more compacted each time the note is played.  What is usually needed is for the piano technician to "needle" the hammer grooves to soften the felt.  Every time I tune a piano, I touch up the voicing in the piano hammers in this manner.  Makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the sound.  Some of you have pianos that were designed with very hard hammers - especially the smaller pianos.  Back in the years they were released, I needed to steam these hammers to get them soft enough, or use major voicing needle techiques to get them resilient enough.  Your  piano technician should be able to help soften the piano hammers to get a more mellow voice.
>  
> The third aspect to quieting a piano is absorbing the sound it makes before it goes out into the room.  This is done with foam baffles or placing carpeting or large pillows underneath the piano.  I have never had an unhappy outcome as long as I placed 2 layers of foam stuffed under the soundboard along with a blanket of foam tucked inside the lid.  This foam sandwich works better than just foam placed on one side of the soundboard.  I use a special pour of foam made for sound absorption, but even styrofoam egg cartons stuffed with styrofoam packing peanuts will go a long way to helping this. 
>  
> The reason "volume control" does not work the same for all Disklaviers is due more to the pianos than the electronics used to play them.  You can put a different limit to the value of energy that activates the solenoids, but in the end, what you are hearing in acoustic mode is the  piano hammer hitting the strings.  This is why action regulation and voicing, along with tuning, are essential in keeping your piano playing beautifully.
>  
> Carol Beigel
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Goroway
> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
> 
> I was under the impression that the minimum volume is mostly controlled by the sensitivity of the solenoids that activate the keys.  If that is the case...no software upgrade will be able to affect that...
> 
> 
> From: Mark in Idaho <MarkGMID@...>
> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, March 24, 2010 6:22:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
> 
>  
> Bill Brandon,
> 
> Yamaha has made a BIG mistake by not including a better volume control. This is like Toyota continuing to sell cars with accelerator problems. They could have hit it out of the park with a volume control that offered a lower volume and an option of linear or progressive volume reduction. This could all have been done with software. 
> 
> Additional volume control only would have almost made the price worthwhile.
> 
> How does Yamaha get their feedback before designing an upgrade like this?
> 
> Mark in Idaho
> 
> On 3/24/2010 12:08 PM, Bill Brandom wrote:
> 
>  
>  
> 
>

to answer some of the questions of the first poster:
you can use midimod2 to do batch processing. you can do all sorts of 
dynamic modifications not possible with veloset and can do any number of 
files. i recently made some changes and bug fixes to midimod2 so if 
anyone wants to use it they should contact me directly since i have not 
posted the new version to my web site and might not for a while. it now 
has all controls on one display since most modern monitors can handle 
it. i fixed some bugs with respect to the ability to handle file names 
with things like unbalanced brackets in them.

spencer@...  midimod2 is on the download page of my web 
site but it is an old version www.spencerserolls.com

On 9/5/2013 9:52 PM, Donal Galvin wrote:
> I also think they are too loud but I put a rug under the piano and you 
> could also stuff some acoustic foam tiles under the soundboard which I 
> felt made a significant difference. If your piano has a silent system 
> you can play the piano ultra quiet through the speaker system but this 
> will not be the acoustic piano playing anymore. I found that adjusting 
> the midi files did not make much of a difference at all to the volume 
> playback and you lost a lot of the dynamics of the songs if I turned 
> the max volume down too much on the midi file.
>
> Regards
>
> Donal
>
>
> On 5 Sep 2013, at 21:45, mqphan@... <mailto:mqphan@...> wrote:
>
>> I found that the new DGB1KE3 seems to be too loud even when I set the 
>> volume dial to -10, although I read somewhere that the E3 can play at 
>> lower volume than other models. I have looked through the comments on 
>> the site on this issue, and have a few questions to ask.  Sorry in 
>> advance in case I misunderstand what I read.
>>
>>
>> 1. Carol said to use Veloset to pull the bottom up to about 40 and 
>> the top down to 65 or so.  When I look into the velocity distribution 
>> of a certain MIDI file in Veloset, I see a range of 6-98 or so for 
>> the distribution.  I can certainly pull the top down to 65, but why 
>> should I pull the bottom up? By so doing, am I reducing the dynamic 
>> range even further, which is something we would not want?  In other 
>> words, should I or should I not keep the low end as is, and only 
>> lower the top end?
>>
>>
>> 2. Assuming the Disklavier is properly calibrated, what is the lowest 
>> velocity number that can be still be played and heard (in theory)? Is 
>> there a technical reason why the keys can't be played at a lower 
>> volume than the current standard setup (max velocity at 100 for 
>> Yamaha music and -10 for lowest volume setting)?  I imagine that the 
>> re-distribution of the velocities can be done in real time at the 
>> Disklavier control box, something like a user-adjusted graphic 
>> equalizer.  Does the E3-PRO have this kind of feature?
>>
>>
>> 3. How do I make velocity change in batch, say for all files in a 
>> particular folder, instead of doing it one file by one file?  I 
>> looked at Veloset but failed to see what I should do for batch 
>> processing.
>>
>>
>> 4. Is there any equivalent app like Veloset for the Mac? Veloset is 
>> such a neat utility for what it does which is automatic re-assiging 
>> the velocity for each note without significantly messing up the 
>> overall distribution, hence the human dimension of the music. My 
>> understanding is that if we set all the notes to a fixed velocity, 
>> that piece of music which will sound robotic.
>>
>>
>> I appreciate any comments and/or instructions.
>>
>>
>> Minh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>, <disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>> It might be helpful to remind Disklavier owners that the "volume" has 
>> different aspects than can be adjusted by the user, no matter what 
>> model of Disklavier is being used.  Basically, there are 3 areas you 
>> can do something about:  MIDI data, voicing the piano hammers, and 
>> controlling the sound coming from the piano soundboard.
>> First, the MIDI data control velocity is set somewhere between 0 and 
>> 128.  Most Yamaha Pianosoft disks have a default velocity (volume) 
>> setting of 100.  To my ears this is too loud.  QRS uses a constant 64 
>> setting, but has less dynamic range.  I sometimes question the need 
>> for a great dynamic range greater than 20 points.  The Fix:  use the 
>> Veloset utility to lower the velocity settings for the ESEQ files (or 
>> MIDI files).  Pull up the bottom to around 40, and limit the top 
>> velocity setting to 65 or so.  Remember though, to make copies of 
>> your original disks first, as these programs overwrite the data it is 
>> looking at.  For my own enjoyment, I have made a separate set of 
>> disks (or files on a playlist) that lower the velocity and dynamic 
>> range.  Since many of you already have playlists of files for your 
>> Disklaviers, make a copy of these lists and run a batch fix on the 
>> entire list.  This is the data that is sent to the solenoids that 
>> determines how fast they respond.  Faster response is louder, lower 
>> numbers are softer.
>> Second, the hammer voicing on your piano.  A piano only plays as 
>> quietly as a person playing it can. Some solenoid systems can pulse 
>> more quietly than others mimicking this effect.   As pianos get 
>> played, the felt in the hammers that hit the strings gets harder.  
>> You can probably see grooves cut into the tops of the piano hammers.  
>> The felt in the bottom of the grooves gets more compacted each time 
>> the note is played.  What is usually needed is for the piano 
>> technician to "needle" the hammer grooves to soften the felt.  Every 
>> time I tune a piano, I touch up the voicing in the piano hammers in 
>> this manner.  Makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the sound.  
>> Some of you have pianos that were designed with very hard hammers - 
>> especially the smaller pianos.  Back in the years they were released, 
>> I needed to steam these hammers to get them soft enough, or use major 
>> voicing needle techiques to get them resilient enough. Your piano 
>> technician should be able to help soften the piano hammers to get a 
>> more mellow voice.
>> The third aspect to quieting a piano is absorbing the sound it makes 
>> before it goes out into the room. This is done with foam baffles or 
>> placing carpeting or large pillows underneath the piano.  I have 
>> never had an unhappy outcome as long as I placed 2 layers of foam 
>> stuffed under the soundboard along with a blanket of foam tucked 
>> inside the lid.  This foam sandwich works better than just foam 
>> placed on one side of the soundboard.  I use a special pour of foam 
>> made for sound absorption, but even styrofoam egg cartons stuffed 
>> with styrofoam packing peanuts will go a long way to helping this.
>> The reason "volume control" does not work the same for all 
>> Disklaviers is due more to the pianos than the electronics used to 
>> play them.  You can put a different limit to the value of energy that 
>> activates the solenoids, but in the end, what you are hearing in 
>> acoustic mode is the piano hammer hitting the strings.  This is why 
>> action regulation and voicing, along with tuning, are essential in 
>> keeping your piano playing beautifully.
>> Carol Beigel
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Kevin Goroway
>>     *To:* disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:07 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
>>
>>     I was under the impression that the minimum volume is mostly
>>     controlled by the sensitivity of the solenoids that activate the
>>     keys.  If that is the case...no software upgrade will be able to
>>     affect that...
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* Mark in Idaho <MarkGMID@...>
>>     *To:* disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>     *Sent:* Wed, March 24, 2010 6:22:15 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
>>
>>     Bill Brandon,
>>
>>     Yamaha has made a BIG mistake by not including a better volume
>>     control. This is like Toyota continuing to sell cars with
>>     accelerator problems. They could have hit it out of the park with
>>     a volume control that offered a lower volume and an option of
>>     linear or progressive volume reduction. This could all have been
>>     done with software.
>>
>>     Additional volume control only would have almost made the price
>>     worthwhile.
>>
>>     How does Yamaha get their feedback before designing an upgrade
>>     like this?
>>
>>     Mark in Idaho
>>
>>     On 3/24/2010 12:08 PM, Bill Brandom wrote:
>>
> 

-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356
(425) 791-0309

to answer some of the questions of the first poster:
you can use midimod2 to do batch processing. you can do all sorts of 
dynamic modifications not possible with veloset and can do any number of 
files. i recently made some changes and bug fixes to midimod2 so if 
anyone wants to use it they should contact me directly since i have not 
posted the new version to my web site and might not for a while. it now 
has all controls on one display since most modern monitors can handle 
it. i fixed some bugs with respect to the ability to handle file names 
with things like unbalanced brackets in them.

On 9/5/2013 9:52 PM, Donal Galvin wrote:
> I also think they are too loud but I put a rug under the piano and you 
> could also stuff some acoustic foam tiles under the soundboard which I 
> felt made a significant difference. If your piano has a silent system 
> you can play the piano ultra quiet through the speaker system but this 
> will not be the acoustic piano playing anymore. I found that adjusting 
> the midi files did not make much of a difference at all to the volume 
> playback and you lost a lot of the dynamics of the songs if I turned 
> the max volume down too much on the midi file.
>
> Regards
>
> Donal
>
>
> On 5 Sep 2013, at 21:45, mqphan@... <mailto:mqphan@...> wrote:
>
>> I found that the new DGB1KE3 seems to be too loud even when I set the 
>> volume dial to -10, although I read somewhere that the E3 can play at 
>> lower volume than other models. I have looked through the comments on 
>> the site on this issue, and have a few questions to ask.  Sorry in 
>> advance in case I misunderstand what I read.
>>
>>
>> 1. Carol said to use Veloset to pull the bottom up to about 40 and 
>> the top down to 65 or so.  When I look into the velocity distribution 
>> of a certain MIDI file in Veloset, I see a range of 6-98 or so for 
>> the distribution.  I can certainly pull the top down to 65, but why 
>> should I pull the bottom up? By so doing, am I reducing the dynamic 
>> range even further, which is something we would not want?  In other 
>> words, should I or should I not keep the low end as is, and only 
>> lower the top end?
>>
>>
>> 2. Assuming the Disklavier is properly calibrated, what is the lowest 
>> velocity number that can be still be played and heard (in theory)? Is 
>> there a technical reason why the keys can't be played at a lower 
>> volume than the current standard setup (max velocity at 100 for 
>> Yamaha music and -10 for lowest volume setting)?  I imagine that the 
>> re-distribution of the velocities can be done in real time at the 
>> Disklavier control box, something like a user-adjusted graphic 
>> equalizer.  Does the E3-PRO have this kind of feature?
>>
>>
>> 3. How do I make velocity change in batch, say for all files in a 
>> particular folder, instead of doing it one file by one file?  I 
>> looked at Veloset but failed to see what I should do for batch 
>> processing.
>>
>>
>> 4. Is there any equivalent app like Veloset for the Mac? Veloset is 
>> such a neat utility for what it does which is automatic re-assiging 
>> the velocity for each note without significantly messing up the 
>> overall distribution, hence the human dimension of the music. My 
>> understanding is that if we set all the notes to a fixed velocity, 
>> that piece of music which will sound robotic.
>>
>>
>> I appreciate any comments and/or instructions.
>>
>>
>> Minh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>, <disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>> It might be helpful to remind Disklavier owners that the "volume" has 
>> different aspects than can be adjusted by the user, no matter what 
>> model of Disklavier is being used.  Basically, there are 3 areas you 
>> can do something about:  MIDI data, voicing the piano hammers, and 
>> controlling the sound coming from the piano soundboard.
>> First, the MIDI data control velocity is set somewhere between 0 and 
>> 128.  Most Yamaha Pianosoft disks have a default velocity (volume) 
>> setting of 100.  To my ears this is too loud.  QRS uses a constant 64 
>> setting, but has less dynamic range.  I sometimes question the need 
>> for a great dynamic range greater than 20 points.  The Fix:  use the 
>> Veloset utility to lower the velocity settings for the ESEQ files (or 
>> MIDI files).  Pull up the bottom to around 40, and limit the top 
>> velocity setting to 65 or so.  Remember though, to make copies of 
>> your original disks first, as these programs overwrite the data it is 
>> looking at.  For my own enjoyment, I have made a separate set of 
>> disks (or files on a playlist) that lower the velocity and dynamic 
>> range.  Since many of you already have playlists of files for your 
>> Disklaviers, make a copy of these lists and run a batch fix on the 
>> entire list.  This is the data that is sent to the solenoids that 
>> determines how fast they respond.  Faster response is louder, lower 
>> numbers are softer.
>> Second, the hammer voicing on your piano.  A piano only plays as 
>> quietly as a person playing it can. Some solenoid systems can pulse 
>> more quietly than others mimicking this effect.   As pianos get 
>> played, the felt in the hammers that hit the strings gets harder.  
>> You can probably see grooves cut into the tops of the piano hammers.  
>> The felt in the bottom of the grooves gets more compacted each time 
>> the note is played.  What is usually needed is for the piano 
>> technician to "needle" the hammer grooves to soften the felt.  Every 
>> time I tune a piano, I touch up the voicing in the piano hammers in 
>> this manner.  Makes a HUGE difference in the quality of the sound.  
>> Some of you have pianos that were designed with very hard hammers - 
>> especially the smaller pianos.  Back in the years they were released, 
>> I needed to steam these hammers to get them soft enough, or use major 
>> voicing needle techiques to get them resilient enough. Your piano 
>> technician should be able to help soften the piano hammers to get a 
>> more mellow voice.
>> The third aspect to quieting a piano is absorbing the sound it makes 
>> before it goes out into the room. This is done with foam baffles or 
>> placing carpeting or large pillows underneath the piano.  I have 
>> never had an unhappy outcome as long as I placed 2 layers of foam 
>> stuffed under the soundboard along with a blanket of foam tucked 
>> inside the lid.  This foam sandwich works better than just foam 
>> placed on one side of the soundboard.  I use a special pour of foam 
>> made for sound absorption, but even styrofoam egg cartons stuffed 
>> with styrofoam packing peanuts will go a long way to helping this.
>> The reason "volume control" does not work the same for all 
>> Disklaviers is due more to the pianos than the electronics used to 
>> play them.  You can put a different limit to the value of energy that 
>> activates the solenoids, but in the end, what you are hearing in 
>> acoustic mode is the piano hammer hitting the strings.  This is why 
>> action regulation and voicing, along with tuning, are essential in 
>> keeping your piano playing beautifully.
>> Carol Beigel
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>     *From:* Kevin Goroway
>>     *To:* disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, March 24, 2010 7:07 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
>>
>>     I was under the impression that the minimum volume is mostly
>>     controlled by the sensitivity of the solenoids that activate the
>>     keys.  If that is the case...no software upgrade will be able to
>>     affect that...
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* Mark in Idaho <MarkGMID@...>
>>     *To:* disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>>     *Sent:* Wed, March 24, 2010 6:22:15 PM
>>     *Subject:* Re: [disklavier] DKC 850 and Piano Volume?
>>
>>     Bill Brandon,
>>
>>     Yamaha has made a BIG mistake by not including a better volume
>>     control. This is like Toyota continuing to sell cars with
>>     accelerator problems. They could have hit it out of the park with
>>     a volume control that offered a lower volume and an option of
>>     linear or progressive volume reduction. This could all have been
>>     done with software.
>>
>>     Additional volume control only would have almost made the price
>>     worthwhile.
>>
>>     How does Yamaha get their feedback before designing an upgrade
>>     like this?
>>
>>     Mark in Idaho
>>
>>     On 3/24/2010 12:08 PM, Bill Brandom wrote:
>>
> 

-- 
Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356
(425) 791-0309