Disklavier

I am the proud owner of a DA1 II Disklavier Grand Piano.  Since 
this is a Mark II piano I would like to upgrade to a Mark II XG 
capability.  If the DSR1 Upgrade Kit is used (1) will I be able to 
use HD Floppy's or will the upgraded unit require DD Floppies only? 
(2) will two of the unused Mark II buttons (Repeat, "0", Disk) be 
modified and designated as new Mark IIXG buttons (Voice & Balance)? 
(3) if I also purchase the DCD1 CD playback unit, can I use the Part 
Select buttons (L or R) to disable the piano track from the CD to 
allow me to  become the pianist for the musical piece with full
orchestra background (as is provided by the Mark III series pianos?

I am also considering using a Third Party Mute Rail System to cancel 
the acoustic piano sound and allow me to play into headset or 
speakers.  Does anyone have knowledge of this modification, pro and 
con.  I am trying to achieve as close to a Mark III update as 
possible.

I will try to answer, and if I give you bad advice, maybe Mark Wisner will 
step in and correct me!

A DSR1 Upgrade Kit is a control box that plugs into your old system.  You 
then use only the new box's floppy drive and other buttons, and yes, it 
plays HD disks.  It will also play MIDI format 0 and MIDI format 1 files.  
What makes the system an XG system is that the soundcard that makes those 
fancy XG sounds is included in the new control box.

The new CD player plays audio data at the same time you are playing MIDI 
data.  For example, when you hear Simon and Garfunkle singing Scarborough 
Fair, their singing is audio, but I believe the guitar and instrument sounds 
are MIDI.  If you were to press the L and R buttons, you would be cancelling 
the piano parts (and any other MIDI data on Channels 1 or 2) but not the 
singing.  On some CDs the orchestra is audio and some it is generated by 
MIDI data.  Perhaps PianoBench on this list can give you some information on 
Home Concert.. This may be more what you are looking for.

As far as the Third Party Mute Rail is concerned, I have posted before that 
if you really want this "silent feature" you should buy a piano with it 
already installed at the factory.  Briefly, Yamaha uses special piano action 
parts on pianos equipped with this feature so that when the mute rail in 
enabled, the touch of the keyboard feels the same to your fingers.  The 
sound on those systems is also generated by a different amplifier than the 
sound generated by MIDI information.  No third party mute rail comes close 
to what you get from a Yamaha factory installed system.

If you want a MarkIII, then buy a MarkIII. The solenoids that actually play 
the keys are a newer generation; the sensor system for recording music is 
different on some models; and of course it already comes with the Silent 
feature AND Smart Key.  Better to work a good trade-in if you want all these 
features.

Carol Beigel
DKV owner and Piano Technician



>From: cfmuller@...
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [disklavier] Upgrade Mark II to Mark III
>Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:09:09 -0000
>
>  I am the proud owner of a DA1 II Disklavier Grand Piano.  Since
>this is a Mark II piano I would like to upgrade to a Mark II XG
>capability.  If the DSR1 Upgrade Kit is used (1) will I be able to
>use HD Floppy's or will the upgraded unit require DD Floppies only?
>(2) will two of the unused Mark II buttons (Repeat, "0", Disk) be
>modified and designated as new Mark IIXG buttons (Voice & Balance)?
>(3) if I also purchase the DCD1 CD playback unit, can I use the Part
>Select buttons (L or R) to disable the piano track from the CD to
>allow me to  become the pianist for the musical piece with full
>orchestra background (as is provided by the Mark III series pianos?
>
>I am also considering using a Third Party Mute Rail System to cancel
>the acoustic piano sound and allow me to play into headset or
>speakers.  Does anyone have knowledge of this modification, pro and
>con.  I am trying to achieve as close to a Mark III update as
>possible.
>
>


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Carol,
Thanks for your input, but the upgrade kit I'm talking about is the kit that
modifies the Mark II Control Box.  I'm not talking about the Mark IIXG
Control Box add on.
I am specifically looking for the answer to the question about the CD player
and the modified Mark II control box.
I know that Yamaha's silent feature is the best, however, I'm looking for
more definitive info on Third Party Mute Rails.
I'd love to but a Mark III, however, I just don't have the spare change at
the moment.

So far, our Software Dept. has resisted the temptation to record anything other than piano MIDI data on the CD MIDI track.  So the contents of a PianoSoft Plus Audio are: one track has the MIDI data that triggers the Disklavier drive system (playing the keys) and the other track has everything else, recorded in a traditional audio CD format.
 
The new CD player plays audio data at the same time you are playing MIDI 
data.  For example, when you hear Simon and Garfunkle singing Scarborough 
Fair, their singing is audio, but I believe the guitar and instrument sounds 
are MIDI.  If you were to press the L and R buttons, you would be cancelling 
the piano parts (and any other MIDI data on Channels 1 or 2) but not the 
singing.  On some CDs the orchestra is audio and some it is generated by 
MIDI data.  Perhaps PianoBench on this list can give you some information on 
Home Concert.. This may be more what you are looking for.


Mark Wisner
Piano Service
Yamaha Corporation
mwisner@...

So far, our Software Dept. has resisted the temptation to record anything other than piano MIDI data on the CD MIDI track.  So the contents of a PianoSoft Plus Audio are: 
one track has the MIDI data that triggers the Disklavier drive system (playing the keys) and the other track has everything else, recorded in a traditional audio CD format.
 
Sorry.  I am guilty of bad editing.  The above is my reply to the following which was posted earlier by another reader.

Mark Wisner

"The new CD player plays audio data at the same time you are playing MIDI 
data.  For example, when you hear Simon and Garfunkle singing Scarborough 
Fair, their singing is audio, but I believe the guitar and instrument sounds 
are MIDI.  If you were to press the L and R buttons, you would be cancelling 
the piano parts (and any other MIDI data on Channels 1 or 2) but not the 
singing.  On some CDs the orchestra is audio and some it is generated by 
MIDI data.  Perhaps PianoBench on this list can give you some information on 
Home Concert.. This may be more what you are looking for."

Mark Wisner
Piano Service
Yamaha Corporation
mwisner@...

No, the upgrade your are talking about, the DSR1, is another control box 
alltogether, and is the upgrade to the Mark II.  There is no modification to 
the Mark II control box.  The DSR1 box gives a DKV the XG sounds and flash 
rom capabilities.

As for the CD Player upgrade, the CD plays audio on one track and MIDI data 
on the other.  If you push L and R, all MIDI data stops and all your hear is 
the audio.  The guitar playing when Simon and Garfunkle sings is on the 
audio track (I tried it today!).

Third party muffler rails may keep the hammers from hitting the strings, but 
the feel of the keys will not be so good.  Also, a system like that must 
come with it's own tone generator for you to hear the MIDI information 
coming from the piano keys when this "silent" system is activated.

Carol Beigel


>From: "Charles F Muller Jr" <cfmuller@...>
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [disklavier] Upgrade Mark II to Mark III
>Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 23:52:38 -0500
>
>Carol,
>Thanks for your input, but the upgrade kit I'm talking about is the kit 
>that
>modifies the Mark II Control Box.  I'm not talking about the Mark IIXG
>Control Box add on.
>I am specifically looking for the answer to the question about the CD 
>player
>and the modified Mark II control box.
>I know that Yamaha's silent feature is the best, however, I'm looking for
>more definitive info on Third Party Mute Rails.
>I'd love to but a Mark III, however, I just don't have the spare change at
>the moment.
>


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Hello Everyone,
Just got off the phone with Mark Wisner and I think I now have the correct
understanding and answers to some of my questions.  Here's what I found out.

The Mark II to Mark IIXG upgrade kit includes modifications to the
electronic box attached to the underside of the piano and a new control box,
DKC500RXG.  This upgrade kit when successfully installed will provide all of
the Mark IIXG capabilities.  I'm told that I can put my existing control
box, DKC100R, and my existing TG100 , Tone Generator, on a shelf in a
closet, because they are no longer required.

When the DCD1 CD playback unit is added to the Mark IIXG system, the Part
Select buttons (L or R) WILL NOT disable the Midi Piano input from the DCD1
to allow me to play the piano part.  A workaround for this problem is to
pull (disconnect)  the Midi input cable from the DCD1 to the Control Box.  A
2nd workaround is to change the Host Select Switch from the Midi position to
the PC1, PC2 or Mac position.

I am still looking for info on a Third Party Silent (Mute Rail) System.  I
am aware that the best capability is the factory installed Yamaha System,
but.....I don't want to buy a new piano.  Doesn't anyone have some first or
second hand experience with a Third Party Mute System??????

Thanks,
Chuck Muller

Carol,
Just received your 2nd email after I sent my latest email.  I think I'm
squared away now,  Thank you very much.
Chuck Muller

Hello Everyone,

In a message dated 11/6/01 8:03:57 PM, Chuck writes:

<< The Mark II to Mark IIXG upgrade kit includes modifications to the
electronic box attached to the underside of the piano and a new control box,
DKC500RXG.  This upgrade kit when successfully installed will provide all of
the Mark IIXG capabilities.  I'm told that I can put my existing control
box, DKC100R, and my existing TG100 , Tone Generator, on a shelf in a
closet, because they are no longer required. >>

All of this is true, but I would not advise putting the TG100 on a shelf. It 
is still a really useful GM tone generator. Perhaps a school or someone you 
know could make good use of it.

Regards,
PianoBench

--- In disklavier@y..., "Charles F Muller Jr" <cfmuller@c...> wrote:
> 
> I am still looking for info on a Third Party Silent (Mute Rail) 
> System.  I am aware that the best capability is the factory
> installed Yamaha System, but.....I don't want to buy a new piano.
> Doesn't anyone have some first or
> second hand experience with a Third Party Mute System??????
> 
> Thanks,
> Chuck Muller

Chuck-

You might consider contacting PianoDisc (sales@...) and
asking for the name of dealer in your area who can demonstrate
PianoDigital (QuietTime).  I have no first (or second) hand 
experience with it myself.

Would you summarize for the group any information you gather regarding
third party silent systems?  Thanks.

Gary Schaps

We went with the installation of the QuietTime Grand Mute Rail Assy.
The installation was done in our home on our Upgraded Mark IIXG A1 Grand
Piano.  It took the tech about 10 hours to install it.  After the basic
installation the Tech had to return to adjust the low end to the Rail at the
Horn Break, took another hour.  We then noticed a problem with volume at the
high end, last octave, and a few keys around the horn break.  The tech
returned to make a few minor adjustments, which turned out to be a more
involved adjustment exercise.  The hammer rail had to be adjusted in both
places and several of the keys had to be adjusted.  This took another three
hours.   During the whole process several calls were made to Mark Wisner,
who was, as always, very knowledgeable and very helpful.

The Rail is installed, works very well, and now my wife can play any voice
without the acoustic piano overpowering the voice, a voice only mode, like
the Mark III.

It appears to me, an observer, that the "Voice Only Mode" requires more
sensitive adjustment to the hammers and keys than the "Acoustic Piano plus
Voice Mode".  Installation of the Mute Rail requires a competent piano
technical who is very familiar with the Yamaha Piano and it's electronics
and software. Remember this guy is going to drill a hole through the horn of
the piano.