Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Piano volume too high

2014-01-26 by <arthurbergman75@...>

Is there a way to lower the volume of the piano on an E3? Setting was already lowered to "10" (the lowest) but that volume is still too high to not interfere with normal conversation in my living room, and would like the piano to play as background.

Read that Disklavier systems require that keys be struck at a level higher than other systems. Is this still true for the E3's or can a technician lower the level that was set at the factory? Or is there another way to get around this?

Re: [disklavier] Piano volume too high

2014-01-26 by Spencer Chase

if you use midi files or convert them to audio encoded midi using 
mid2pianocd, you can batch process the loudness of the files using my 
midimod2 program. you can find it on the download page of my web site. 
if you want to play at background level you are probably better off 
playing the stereo. once you mess with the dynamic structure of the 
music too much it loses its musicality.

http://spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html

On 1/26/2014 9:29 AM, arthurbergman75@... wrote:
>
> Is there a way to lower the volume of the piano on an E3?  Setting was 
> already lowered to "10" (the lowest) but that volume is still too high 
> to not interfere with normal conversation in my living room, and would 
> like the piano to play as background.
>
> Read that Disklavier systems require that keys be struck at a level 
> higher than other systems.  Is this still true for the E3's or can a 
> technician lower the level that was set at the factory?  Or is there 
> another way to get around this?
>
> 

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356
(425) 791-0309

Re: [disklavier] Piano volume too high

2014-01-29 by <arthurbergman75@...>

I have heard that completely closing the lid and placing a towel on the music board reduces the sound level. Has anyone tried this? Did it significantly reduce the volume level? I cannot test this on my piano as it is currently being fixed by Yamaha.

Re: [disklavier] Piano volume too high

2014-01-29 by James Fry

I'm pretty sure there are posts in the archives about this (though it might have been the dug mailing list). A piano is a loud percussion instrument, and is much louder than most people realise. I struggle to play my U1 upright at a low enough volume for background music where people can converse over it in my ~15x15 ft living room, and have similar issues with playback. That said, there are sound dampening kits for most pianos (uprights and grands) but they quite substantially change the tone of the instrument for the worse.

I normally use the digital piano sound if I want the piano on in the background - it convinces most people.

What piano do you have?

Cheers

James

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On 29 January 2014 16:22, <arthurbergman75@...> wrote:

I have heard that completely closing the lid and placing a towel on the music board reduces the sound level. Has anyone tried this? Did it significantly reduce the volume level? I cannot test this on my piano as it is currently being fixed by Yamaha.

Re: [disklavier] Piano volume too high

2014-01-29 by <arthurbergman75@...>

DGB1KE3 Classic

Re: [disklavier] Piano volume too high

2014-01-29 by PianoBench@...

Good morning, everyone.

When people want to use their Disklavier for background music they are often asking the virtual pianist to play much, much quieter than a pianist would normally play. In the case of difficult music, this sometimes means asking the virtual pianist to play softer than most humans can play. This makes it challenging to reduce the volume of the piano to very low levels in the way that we are accustomed to doing with a stereo system.

The simple things are:

(1) Use the volume control on the piano to reduce the volume.

(2) Keep the lid closed.

(3) Put the piano on a thick carpet.

(4) If the piano is an upright and is positioned against a wall, keep in mind that the piano's vertical sound board is going to be throwing its sound directly at the wall, which is a hard reflective surface. Putting a baffle between the piano and the wall can reduce quite a bit of the sound.

(5) There are kits that can be installed in both upright and grand pianos that substantially reduce the volume of sound. I would consider such a kit as the last measure to undertake but would not hesitate to do so if the sound is still too loud.

I can still remember my experience practicing on my Yamaha P2F upright when I was a graduate student in music. I needed to practice long hours and lived in an apartment building. My piano had a muffle feature that dropped a felt between the hammers and the strings. That helped a lot, but I practiced so much that I actually wore holes in the felt. I also put a thick wool blanket between the piano and the wall behind it. That was very effective.

Regards,

PianoBench

On Jan 29, 2014, at 11:38 AM, James Fry <groups@jamesfry.com> wrote:

I'm pretty sure there are posts in the archives about this (though it might have been the dug mailing list). A piano is a loud percussion instrument, and is much louder than most people realise. I struggle to play my U1 upright at a low enough volume for background music where people can converse over it in my ~15x15 ft living room, and have similar issues with playback. That said, there are sound dampening kits for most pianos (uprights and grands) but they quite substantially change the tone of the instrument for the worse.

I normally use the digital piano sound if I want the piano on in the background - it convinces most people.

What piano do you have?

Cheers

James

On 29 January 2014 16:22, <arthurbergman75@...> ;wrote:

I have heard that completely closing the lid and placing a towel on the music board reduces the sound level. Has anyone tried this? Did it significantly reduce the volume level? I cannot test this on my piano as it is currently being fixed by Yamaha.

Re: [disklavier] Piano volume too high

2014-01-29 by Bill Brandom

Arthur,

After your piano is up and running, have your technician run a full calibration on the piano. This should bring down the volume of the piano considerably.

E3 pianos can play softer than any other Disklavier system made by Yamaha.

Bill

On Jan 26, 2014, at 9:29 AM, <arthurbergman75@yahoo.com> wrote:

Is there a way to lower the volume of the piano on an E3?  Setting was already lowered to "10" (the lowest) but that volume is still too high to not interfere with normal conversation in my living room, and would like the piano to play as background.

Read that Disklavier systems require that keys be struck at a level higher than other systems.  Is this still true for the E3's or can a technician lower the level that was set at the factory?  Or is there another way to get around this?

RE: Piano volume too high

2014-01-30 by <jmorris651@...>

Here is my story....

I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.

I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:

I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :)

I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.

I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.

It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.

Joe

Re: [disklavier] RE: Piano volume too high

2014-01-30 by Richard Freeman

Thank you Joe. I have the same issue, and resigned myself to using the speakers to playback at lower volume. This is a solution I will try!

Much thanks,

Richard Freeman

Oro Valley, AZ

On Jan 30, 2014, at 8:45 AM, <jmorris651@...> <;jmorris651@...> wrote:

Here is my story....

I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.

I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:

I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :)

I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.

I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.

It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.

Joe

RE: Piano volume too high

2014-02-07 by <arthurbergman75@...>

Your method sounds fantastic. The room where our piano is has the same characteristics as yours. I will try what you suggest as soon as the replacement piano Yamaha is sending arrives. All the other suggestions I read or received either meant using the piano like a stereo or reducing sound at the top. Never realized that most of the sound emanates off the bottom of the sounding board. Thank you so much for responding.

RE: Piano volume too high

2014-02-08 by <jmorris651@...>

You are entirely welcome. I am glad that my story helped. Please post your results when complete.

Joe

Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-08 by gelsycycle

Joe,

How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?

George

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <jmorris651@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text

>
> Here is my story....
>  
> 
>  I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.
>  
> 
>  I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:
>  
> 
>  I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :) 
>  
> 
>  I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
>  
> 
>  I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
>  
> 
>  It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
>  
> 
>  Joe
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-08 by Donal Galvin

I have just taken delivery of 4 inch acoustic foam and have an electric kitchen knife ready to go. I think he said to cut the foam slightly larger so it does not fall out.

Sent from my iPhone

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40, gelsycycle <georgeall@...> wrote:
> 
> Joe,
> 
> How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?
> 
> George
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <jmorris651@...> wrote:
> >
> > Here is my story....
> > 
> > 
> > I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.
> > 
> > 
> > I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:
> > 
> > 
> > I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :) 
> > 
> > 
> > I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
> > 
> > 
> > I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
> > 
> > 
> > It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
> > 
> > 
> > Joe
> >
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Bill Brandom

Correct Donal, just cut the foam about 5% larger than the opening and then squeeze it in.

Bill

On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:

I have just taken delivery of 4 inch acoustic foam and have an electric kitchen knife ready to go. I think he said to cut the foam slightly larger so it does not fall out.

Sent from my iPhone

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40, gelsycycle <georgeall@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Joe,
> 
> How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?
> 
> George
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <jmorris651@...> wrote:
> >
> > Here is my story....
> > 
> > 
> > I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.
> > 
> > 
> > I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:
> > 
> > 
> > I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :) 
> > 
> > 
> > I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
> > 
> > 
> > I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
> > 
> > 
> > It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
> > 
> > 
> > Joe
> >

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Donal Galvin

My own view is that people want an acoustic piano to play at low volume levels not physically possible !! 

Regards

Donal

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 9 Feb 2014, at 00:36, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
> 
> Correct Donal, just cut the foam about 5% larger than the opening and then squeeze it in.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> I have just taken delivery of 4 inch acoustic foam and have an electric kitchen knife ready to go. I think he said to cut the foam slightly larger so it does not fall out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40, gelsycycle <georgeall@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Joe,
>> 
>> How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?
>> 
>> George
>> 
>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <jmorris651@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Here is my story....
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :) 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Joe
>> >
>> 
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Bill Brandom

You are right. People expect player pianos to play softer than pianos can play.

It is a little like asking someone to play a tuba softly. They can try, but the problem is that it's a tuba!

Bill

On Feb 8, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:

My own view is that people want an acoustic piano to play at low volume levels not physically possible !! 

Regards

Donal

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 9 Feb 2014, at 00:36, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> Correct Donal, just cut the foam about 5% larger than the opening and then squeeze it in.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> I have just taken delivery of 4 inch acoustic foam and have an electric kitchen knife ready to go. I think he said to cut the foam slightly larger so it does not fall out.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40, gelsycycle <georgeall@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Joe,
>> 
>> How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?
>> 
>> George
>> 
>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <jmorris651@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Here is my story....
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :) 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Joe
>> >

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Donal Galvin

I use the digital piano for ultra quiet background music and I'll sometimes even switch off the pedal and key movement as that can be louder the piano sound. 

Regards

Donal

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 9 Feb 2014, at 01:26, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
> 
> You are right. People expect player pianos to play softer than pianos can play.
> 
> It is a little like asking someone to play a tuba softly. They can try, but the problem is that it's a tuba!
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Feb 8, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
> 
>  
> My own view is that people want an acoustic piano to play at low volume levels not physically possible !! 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Donal
> 
> 
>> On 9 Feb 2014, at 00:36, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> Correct Donal, just cut the foam about 5% larger than the opening and then squeeze it in.
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> I have just taken delivery of 4 inch acoustic foam and have an electric kitchen knife ready to go. I think he said to cut the foam slightly larger so it does not fall out.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40, gelsycycle <georgeall@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Joe,
>>> 
>>> How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?
>>> 
>>> George
>>> 
>>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <jmorris651@...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Here is my story....
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :) 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > Joe
>>> >
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Skanter123

I never liked the concept of "background music" anyway. If music is good, it requires full attention. I'm not enamored of crippling a piano's timbre so one can talk over it either.  Just my two cents.

Sam 
www.keyboardcollective.com
(212) 684-3304

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On Feb 8, 2014, at 11:59 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
> 
> I use the digital piano for ultra quiet background music and I'll sometimes even switch off the pedal and key movement as that can be louder the piano sound. 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Donal
> 
> 
>> On 9 Feb 2014, at 01:26, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> You are right. People expect player pianos to play softer than pianos can play.
>> 
>> It is a little like asking someone to play a tuba softly. They can try, but the problem is that it's a tuba!
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> On Feb 8, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> My own view is that people want an acoustic piano to play at low volume levels not physically possible !! 
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Donal
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9 Feb 2014, at 00:36, Bill Brandom <billbrando@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Correct Donal, just cut the foam about 5% larger than the opening and then squeeze it in.
>>> 
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I have just taken delivery of 4 inch acoustic foam and have an electric kitchen knife ready to go. I think he said to cut the foam slightly larger so it does not fall out.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40, gelsycycle <georgeall@...> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> Joe,
>>>> 
>>>> How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?
>>>> 
>>>> George
>>>> 
>>>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, <jmorris651@...> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Here is my story....
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was acceptable for people to talk.
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices were too high. So here is what I did:
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left over to do about 5 more pianos. :) 
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used this to trace the different space configurations on the underside of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
>>>> > 
>>>> > 
>>>> > Joe
>>>> >
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Spencer Chase

others on the list will disagree, as evidenced by how popular a topic 
softening the piano is. i just don't understand wy someone would spend 
the money to buy an acoustic piano if all they want is background music. 
you can lower the volume of a stereo to the point that you can't even 
tell it is music anymore. you can do all the yacking you want and not be 
bothered by the distracting music.

i prefer piano played at the volume the recording artist played it. 
anything else is an insult to the performer IMHO. i also hate it when 
people talk at concerts and other music venues. if they really have 
something so important to say why not say it where they can have a 
dedicated audience. much easier to hear their brilliant conversation 
without music getting in the way. if you are discussing the performance 
it may be somewhat acceptable but still better to wait until it is over.

i have never turned the volume down on my piano. if someone complains, i 
turn it off, or depending on the circumstance, ask them to leave.

On 2/8/2014 9:04 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
> I never liked the concept of "background music" anyway. If music is 
> good, it requires full attention. I'm not enamored of crippling a 
> piano's timbre so one can talk over it either.  Just my two cents.
>
> Sam
> www.keyboardcollective.com <http://www.keyboardcollective.com>
> (212) 684-3304
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2014, at 11:59 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@... 
> <mailto:discodonal@...>> wrote:
>
>> I use the digital piano for ultra quiet background music and I'll 
>> sometimes even switch off the pedal and key movement as that can be 
>> louder the piano sound.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Donal
>>
>>
>> On 9 Feb 2014, at 01:26, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@... 
>> <mailto:bill.brandom03@...>> wrote:
>>
>>> You are right. People expect player pianos to play softer than 
>>> pianos can play.
>>>
>>> It is a little like asking someone to play a tuba softly. They can 
>>> try, but the problem is that it's a tuba!
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@... 
>>> <mailto:discodonal@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>> My own view is that people want an acoustic piano to play at low 
>>> volume levels not physically possible !!
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Donal
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2014, at 00:36, Bill Brandom <billbrando@... 
>>> <mailto:billbrando@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Correct Donal, just cut the foam about 5% larger than the opening 
>>>> and then squeeze it in.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@... 
>>>> <mailto:discodonal@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have just taken delivery of 4 inch acoustic foam and have an 
>>>> electric kitchen knife ready to go. I think he said to cut the foam 
>>>> slightly larger so it does not fall out.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40, gelsycycle <georgeall@... 
>>>> <mailto:georgeall@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>> How did you attach the foam to the piano so it doesn't fall off?
>>>>>
>>>>> George
>>>>>
>>>>> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com 
>>>>> <mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com>, <jmorris651@...> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Here is my story....
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I have my grand piano disklavier in a living room that has wood 
>>>>> floors and many windows. With all of those reflective surfaces it 
>>>>> was impossible to get the piano to play at a low volume that was 
>>>>> acceptable for people to talk.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I looked up the different dampening systems and IMO the prices 
>>>>> were too high. So here is what I did:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I found some 2 inch 'egg-crate' foam padding that had been cut 
>>>>> into 1 foot by 2 foot pieces. I actually found them on Craigs 
>>>>> list. I paid $30 for a bunch of the pieces and have enough left 
>>>>> over to do about 5 more pianos. :)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I then went and purchased a large artist's sketch pad. I used 
>>>>> this to trace the different space configurations on the underside 
>>>>> of the piano. Using the foam pieces as a head and back rest worked 
>>>>> well. I then used these sketches and a magic marker to outline the 
>>>>> pattern on the foam pieces. Then using an electric carving knife 
>>>>> (it worked like magic) I cut the pieces to fit.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I placed the pieces in the underside of the piano and made sure 
>>>>> that they did not touch the sound board. This dramatically changed 
>>>>> the volume of the piano and my piano teacher who has a PHD in 
>>>>> Piano performance didn't notice any tonal or any other difference.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > It worked so well that I can now play the piano at volumes 
>>>>> higher than 10 and still have an acceptable overall volume level.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Joe
>>>>> >
>>>>>
> 

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356
(425) 791-0309

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Bill Brandom

Spencer,


I truly understand what you are saying and I agree that listening to the piano at the volume it was recorded is the most ideal.  I love hearing my piano play back music like it was originally played. ANY volume reduction reduces the dynamic range of the performance and steals much of the expression.


However, I have turned down the volume on my piano on many occasions and I have turned it off when "down" wasn't enough. I have even asked some people to leave, but not really because of the piano. :)


Bill

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: Spencer Chase <lists@...>
To: disklavier <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 8, 2014 9:25 pm
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high


 
  
    
                  
        others on the list will disagree, as evidenced by how popular a    topic softening the piano is. i just don't understand wy someone    would spend the money to buy an acoustic piano if all they want is    background music. you can lower the volume of a stereo to the point    that you can't even tell it is music anymore. you can do all the    yacking you want and not be bothered by the distracting music.
    
    i prefer piano played at the volume the recording artist played it.    anything else is an insult to the performer IMHO. i also hate it    when people talk at concerts and other music venues. if they really    have something so important to say why not say it where they can    have a dedicated audience. much easier to hear their brilliant    conversation without music getting in the way. if you are discussing    the performance it may be somewhat acceptable but still better to    wait until it is over.
    
    i have never turned the volume down on my piano. if someone    complains, i turn it off, or depending on the circumstance, ask them    to leave.
    
    
On 2/8/2014 9:04 PM, Skanter123 wrote:
    
    
                       
            
I never liked the concept of "background music" anyway.              If music is good, it requires full attention. I'm not              enamored of crippling a piano's timbre so one can talk              over it either.  Just my two cents.
              
              Sam               
                
www.keyboardcollective.com
                
(212) 684-3304
                

                
                

                
                

                
                

                
              
            
            

              On Feb 8, 2014, at 11:59 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...>              wrote:
              
            
            
              
                  
                  
I use the digital piano for ultra quiet                    background music and I'll sometimes even switch off                    the pedal and key movement as that can be louder the                    piano sound. 
                    
                    Regards                    

                    
                    
Donal
                    

                    
                  
                  

                    On 9 Feb 2014, at 01:26, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...>                    wrote:
                    
                  
                  
                    
                        
                        
You are right. People expect player pianos                          to play softer than pianos can play.
                        

                        
                        
It is a little like asking someone to play                          a tuba softly. They can try, but the problem                          is that it's a tuba!
                          
                          
Bill
                        
                        

                          On Feb 8, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...>                          wrote:
                          
                        
                        
                            
                            
My own view is that people want an                              acoustic piano to play at low volume                              levels not physically possible !! 
                              
                              Regards                              

                              
                              
Donal
                              

                              
                            
                            

                              On 9 Feb 2014, at 00:36, Bill Brandom <billbrando@aol.com>                              wrote:
                              
                            
                            
                              
                                  
                                  
Correct Donal, just cut the foam                                    about 5% larger than the opening and                                    then squeeze it in.
                                    
                                    
Bill
                                  
                                  

                                    On Feb 8, 2014, at 10:13 AM, Donal                                    Galvin <discodonal@...>                                    wrote:
                                    
                                  
                                  
                                      
                                      
I have just taken delivery of                                        4 inch acoustic foam and have an                                        electric kitchen knife ready to                                        go. I think he said to cut the                                        foam slightly larger so it does                                        not fall out.
                                      

                                        Sent from my iPhone
                                      

                                        On 8 Feb 2014, at 17:40,                                        gelsycycle <georgeall@...>                                        wrote:
                                        
                                      
                                      
                                        
                                            
                                            
Joe,
                                              
                                              How did you attach the                                              foam to the piano so it                                              doesn't fall off?
                                              
                                              George
                                              
                                              --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com,                                              <jmorris651@...>                                              wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Here is my story....
                                              > 
                                              > 
                                              > I have my grand piano                                              disklavier in a living                                              room that has wood floors                                              and many windows. With all                                              of those reflective                                              surfaces it was impossible                                              to get the piano to play                                              at a low volume that was                                              acceptable for people to                                              talk.
                                              > 
                                              > 
                                              > I looked up the                                              different dampening                                              systems and IMO the prices                                              were too high. So here is                                              what I did:
                                              > 
                                              > 
                                              > I found some 2 inch                                              'egg-crate' foam padding                                              that had been cut into 1                                              foot by 2 foot pieces. I                                              actually found them on                                              Craigs list. I paid $30                                              for a bunch of the pieces                                              and have enough left over                                              to do about 5 more pianos.                                              :) 
                                              > 
                                              > 
                                              > I then went and                                              purchased a large artist's                                              sketch pad. I used this to                                              trace the different space                                              configurations on the                                              underside of the piano.                                              Using the foam pieces as a                                              head and back rest worked                                              well. I then used these                                              sketches and a magic                                              marker to outline the                                              pattern on the foam                                              pieces. Then using an                                              electric carving knife (it                                              worked like magic) I cut                                              the pieces to fit.
                                              > 
                                              > 
                                              > I placed the pieces                                              in the underside of the                                              piano and made sure that                                              they did not touch the                                              sound board. This                                              dramatically changed the                                              volume of the piano and my                                              piano teacher who has a                                              PHD in Piano performance                                              didn't notice any tonal or                                              any other difference.
                                              > 
                                              > 
                                              > It worked so well                                              that I can now play the                                              piano at volumes higher                                              than 10 and still have an                                              acceptable overall volume                                              level.
                                              > 
                                              > 
                                              > Joe
                                              >
                                              
                                            
                                          
                                                                                  
                                      
                                    
                                                                      
                                
                                                              
                            
                          
                                                  
                      
                                          
                  
                
                              
            
          
                          
    
    
-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by <jmorris651@...>

That is correct. I cut the paper templates to size. Then the tracing with the marker added about 1/16" on the foam. Then I cut to the outer edge of the marker lines. It gave me about 1/8" additional size on the perimeter. Be careful to not add too much extra as then the foam will buckle. The foam that I used was fairly stiff and I wanted to ensure that I did not touch the sound board.

I had considered 4" but opted for the 2". I will be glad to hear how your process goes.

Joe

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Donal Galvin

I installed the 4 inch auralex wedges and it is working beautifully. Really soft and smooth playback but still plenty of power when required when I want to play myself or play louder. I went for the foam instead of putting rugs all over my wooden floor. I am happy with the result and we now own an electric kitchen knife to cut up the roast beef!!

Sent from my iPhone

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 9 Feb 2014, at 14:39, jmorris651@... wrote:
> 
> That is correct. I cut the paper templates to size. Then the tracing with the marker added about 1/16" on the foam. Then I cut to the outer edge of the marker lines. It gave me about 1/8" additional size on the perimeter. Be careful to not add too much extra as then the foam will buckle. The foam that I used was fairly stiff and I wanted to ensure that I did not touch the sound board.
> 
> 
> 
> I had considered 4" but opted for the 2". I will be glad to hear how your process goes.
> 
> 
> 
> Joe
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Donal Galvin

Here is the foam I used. I got black colour

http://www.auralex.com/acoustic_studiofoam_4w/acoustic_studiofoam_4w.asp

Sent from my iPhone

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> On 9 Feb 2014, at 14:54, Donal Galvin <discodonal@...> wrote:
> 
> I installed the 4 inch auralex wedges and it is working beautifully. Really soft and smooth playback but still plenty of power when required when I want to play myself or play louder. I went for the foam instead of putting rugs all over my wooden floor. I am happy with the result and we now own an electric kitchen knife to cut up the roast beef!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 9 Feb 2014, at 14:39, jmorris651@... wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> That is correct. I cut the paper templates to size. Then the tracing with the marker added about 1/16" on the foam. Then I cut to the outer edge of the marker lines. It gave me about 1/8" additional size on the perimeter. Be careful to not add too much extra as then the foam will buckle. The foam that I used was fairly stiff and I wanted to ensure that I did not touch the sound board.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I had considered 4" but opted for the 2". I will be glad to hear how your process goes.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
> 
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by <jmorris651@...>

IMHO, here are my thoughts on the circumstances surrounding volume of an acoustic piano.

First off, if I had a choice I would change the room that the piano resides in and make it more acoustically acceptable for an acoustic piano. When I built my home theater I did exactly that. I spent more time and money making it acoustically correct then on any other aspect of it. I also own a professional recording studio so I am well aware of acoustic treatments and the needs for them.

But, my wife would definitely have some choice words if I were to place carpet over the finished wood floors and put acoustic baffles over the windows that overlook the lake. :) So... I have to compromise. Placing the foam in the underside of the piano seemed to be an adequate compromise. I can still open the top of the piano and also still have the ability to adjust the volume of the 850 itself.

There are also different circumstances that call for different volumes of a piano or a stereo as referenced. At least in my house there are. I have a "listening" stereo system and a whole-house music system. When I want to do critical listening I use my stereo system and have the volume at a level that is appropriate for what I am listening to. When I have guests over I use the whole house system and have the volume at an appropriate level for the activity that is occurring. It is the same for the piano. Even when hosting parties I typically corral the guests for a period of time and play the piano at full volume so that they can appreciate it. But then I turn it down so the guests can enjoy each other's company as well as acoustic background music.

If I were to invite guests over for the sole purpose of listening to the piano then it would be a totally different story. They would not talk as the focus would be a piano performance. But I cannot imagine doing that unless a pianist is actually playing the piano. Who would want to sit and watch the disklavier play for any length of time unless it was using Yamaha TV for a live experience.

Again, IMHO as it pertains to giving respect to the original pianist's performance, we will never be able to replicate the performance in our houses. IMO, it is technically not possible. Any time you capture an analog source and convert it to digital, whether it be a movement like a pianist striking a key or the music itself, the complete analog signature is not captured. Pieces of it are captured and the rest are interpolated. It would be like saying that listening to a MP3 is the same as being at the concert. Even "lossless" audio is truly not lossless. It just has less loss than other methods.

Joe

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by <jmorris651@...>

Wasn't it amazing how well the knife worked on the foam? I had not researched it but when I was trying to figure out how to cut the foam I said "what the heck" and tried it.

I am glad that it works so well for you. I am still getting a little WAF issues with the volume so I may just add the additional 2" and see how it works.

Joe

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Spencer Chase

i missed the e-mail in which "the knife" was described. i have used a 
bread knife to cut foam but the best is an electric carving knife. they 
can be found at thrift and junk stores easily because they are really 
bad at caring much of anything else.

On 2/9/2014 7:15 AM, jmorris651@... wrote:
>
> Wasn't it amazing how well the knife worked on the foam? I had not 
> researched it but when I was trying to figure out how to cut the foam 
> I said "what the heck" and tried it.
>
>
> I am glad that it works so well for you. I am still getting a little 
> WAF issues with the volume so I may just add the additional 2" and see 
> how it works.
>
>
> Joe
>
> 

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356
(425) 791-0309

RE: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Joe Morris

Mine worked pretty good on my finger last thanksgiving when it slipped off of the turkey and hit my thumb. Ouch!!

 

And I did it twice!! J

 

Joe

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Spencer Chase
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:15 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

i missed the e-mail in which "the knife" was described. i have used a bread knife to cut foam but the best is an electric carving knife. they can be found at thrift and junk stores easily because they are really bad at caring much of anything else.

On 2/9/2014 7:15 AM, jmorris651@... wrote:

Wasn't it amazing how well the knife worked on the foam? I had not researched it but when I was trying to figure out how to cut the foam I said "what the heck" and tried it.

I am glad that it works so well for you. I am still getting a little WAF issues with the volume so I may just add the additional 2" and see how it works.

Joe

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high

2014-02-09 by Spencer Chase

yum, blood gravy.

On 2/9/2014 8:24 AM, Joe Morris wrote:
>
> Mine worked pretty good on my finger last thanksgiving when it slipped 
> off of the turkey and hit my thumb. Ouch!!
>
> And I did it twice!! J
>
> Joe
>
> *From:*disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] 
> *On Behalf Of *Spencer Chase
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 09, 2014 10:15 AM
> *To:* disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [disklavier] Re: Piano volume too high
>
> i missed the e-mail in which "the knife" was described. i have used a 
> bread knife to cut foam but the best is an electric carving knife. 
> they can be found at thrift and junk stores easily because they are 
> really bad at caring much of anything else.
>
> On 2/9/2014 7:15 AM, jmorris651@... 
> <mailto:jmorris651@...> wrote:
>
>     Wasn't it amazing how well the knife worked on the foam? I had not
>     researched it but when I was trying to figure out how to cut the
>     foam I said "what the heck" and tried it.
>
>     I am glad that it works so well for you. I am still getting a
>     little WAF issues with the volume so I may just add the additional
>     2" and see how it works.
>
>     Joe
>
>
>
> -- 
>   
> Best regards, Spencer Chase
> 67550-Bell Springs Rd.
> Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
> Spencer@...  <mailto:Spencer@...>
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> (707) 984-8356
> (425) 791-0309
>
> 

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356
(425) 791-0309