Disklavier

Hello,
My piano has been going out of tune extremely fast lately. I was told this was an uncommon but not unknown problem with Yamaha pianos. Has anyone had a similar experience, and how did you fix it?
I have a Disklavier DC1 Mk IIXG manufactured in 1996. I live in Thousand Oaks CA. It has been unusually dry this year-not only lack of rain, but unusually low humidity.

On 6/21/13 I had my piano tuned by Geoff Sykes, a well respected Disklavier technician. On 8/15/13 he came back out to install some electronic parts, and he had to touch up some of the unisons on the tuning.

On 12/16/13 I had my piano tuned by John Ballinger, my usual piano tuner, and the unisons started going out of tune in 4 days. I called John, and he said I might need a humidifier/de-humidifier. John got busy, and he referred me to Mike Farnell, a co-owner of Pacific Piano Supply Co.

On 2/7/14, Mike came out and inspected the piano. He removed the action, and inspected where the pin-block meets the plate. He was able to slide his business card between the two from A4 to A8, and A2 down to C1. He said that the piano had this defect when manufactured, and the recent dry conditions made it worse. He said the piano won't be able to hold a tune until the space between the pin-block and the plate is filled in, because the pin-block is pivoting where it is touching, and it is not rock-solid because it is not touching everywhere because of the bad fit. His proposed solution was to have him take the piano to his shop, where he would loosen the strings and fit hard maple shims to fill the gaps. He said he had seen this in about 20 Yamaha pianos, and when he does this procedure, it fixes the tuning stability problem. He also said that Thousand Oaks should not need a humidifier (he lives in Simi Valley, just a few miles away, and he is familiar with the area).

Has anyone encountered this tuning stability problem?

Has anyone had any dealings with Mike Farnell, good or bad?

The proposed fix would cost two thousand dollars. Can anyone recommend anything else be done while he has the piano apart?

I have noticed some prominent harmonics when I play 2 notes.

Sometimes there are some annoying cabinet rattles and buzzes--they come and go--in the lid and the music rack.

The piano does sound sweet when it is in tune.

Any and all suggestions appreciated.
Thanks,
Phil Mallory

-- 

Best regards, Spencer Chase
67550-Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
(707) 984-8356 
(425) 791-0309

On Feb 11, 2014, at 1:37 AM, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:

> Hi Phil,
> 
> Your piano is 14 years old. Has it ever held a tuning for a reasonable amount of time? If so, then it is not the pinblock-to-plate flange fit. That pinblock has been like that since your piano was new. There is about 20 tons of tension pulling on the 220 (plus or minus) tuning pins in the plate. Wherever the pinblock was going to get pulled, it is there and not moving. You have more than 20 very large wood screws going through the plate into the pinblock. If these screws are tight, along with all of the tuning pins going through wooden bushings in the plate and then into the pinblock, your pinblock is not "moving".
> 
> Pianos can go out of tune for a variety of reasons. If plate screws are tight in the pinblock and around the rim of the piano, the tuning pins are tight and the wood structure of the piano is OK, then it probably is humidity related. This doesn't mean the location of the piano is too dry or too wet, it means that the relative humidity in the room is changing. Humidity control systems assist in maintaining a more level degree of relative humidity in the piano. To check and monitor your relative humidity around the piano, purchase an accurate hygrometer. If your relative humidity is drifting more than 5 - 10 %, then the changes in humidity are affecting the tuning stability of the piano.
> 
> Tuning is a funny thing. Even the very best concert grands start going "out-of-tune" as soon as you quit tuning them. A concert grand is tuned normally before each concert. "In-tune" is really a matter of degree. 
> 
> You said that Geoff tuned your piano and two months later installed some electronic parts and touched up some of the unisons. This sounds perfectly normal. Unisons going out of tune in 4 days, certainly possible, but then it is a matter of degree.
> 
> Should you have the pinblock shimmed? Well, it wouldn't hurt anything, other than your pocketbook. I have no idea, however, why it will cost $2,000. I see no reason why he couldn't shim the pinblock-to-plate flange gap in your home without lowering the tension of the strings. It sounds like the shims won't be much more than a business card thick.
> 
> Bill
>

> On Feb 11, 2014, at 9:03 AM, Carol Beigel <carol@...> wrote:
> 
> Your piano is probably too dry.  A good relative humidity is around 50 percent.  I doubt  shimming the pin block at this point will do your piano any good.  Just to give you a real life example, when I am tuning a piano in a recording studio, the piano is tuned every hour and a half!  You just need to get your piano tuned more often in extreme weather.
> 
> 
> Carol Beigel
> 
>> On Feb 10, 2014, at 11:43 PM, Laurel Lapin <Murlyne@...> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello,
>> My piano has been going out of tune extremely fast lately. I was told this was an uncommon but not unknown problem with Yamaha pianos. Has anyone had a similar experience, and how did you fix it?
>> I have a Disklavier DC1 Mk IIXG manufactured in 1996. I live in Thousand Oaks CA. It has been unusually dry this year-not only lack of rain, but unusually low humidity.
>> On 6/21/13 I had my piano tuned by Geoff Sykes, a well respected Disklavier technician. On 8/15/13 he came back out to install some electronic parts, and he had to touch up some of the unisons on the tuning.
>> On 12/16/13 I had my piano tuned by John Ballinger, my usual piano tuner, and the unisons started going out of tune in 4 days. I called John, and he said I might need a humidifier/de-humidifier. John got busy, and he referred me to Mike Farnell, a co-owner of Pacific Piano Supply Co.
>> On 2/7/14, Mike came out and inspected the piano. He removed the action, and inspected where the pin-block meets the plate. He was able to slide his business card between the two from A4 to A8, and A2 down to C1. He said that the piano had this defect when manufactured, and the recent dry conditions made it worse. He said the piano won't be able to hold a tune until the space between the pin-block and the plate is filled in, because the pin-block is pivoting where it is touching, and it is not rock-solid because it is not touching everywhere because of the bad fit. His proposed solution was to have him take the piano to his shop, where he would loosen the strings and fit hard maple shims to fill the gaps. He said he had seen this in about 20 Yamaha pianos, and when he does this procedure, it fixes the tuning stability problem. He also said that Thousand Oaks should not need a humidifier (he lives in Simi Valley, just a few miles away, and he is familiar with the area).
>> Has anyone encountered this tuning stability problem?
>> Has anyone had any dealings with Mike Farnell, good or bad?
>> The proposed fix would cost two thousand dollars. Can anyone recommend anything else be done while he has the piano apart?
>> I have noticed some prominent harmonics when I play 2 notes.
>> Sometimes there are some annoying cabinet rattles and buzzes--they come and go--in the lid and the music rack.
>>  
>> The piano does sound sweet when it is in tune.
>> 
>> Any and all suggestions appreciated.
>> Thanks,
>> Phil Mallory
> 
>