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Is the CD worth it? What about size?

Is the CD worth it? What about size?

2002-02-18 by Kathy Sharp

I'm seriously shopping for a disklavier and have found a couple older ones on the secondary market. They do not have the CD technology. I've been leaning toward a new piano so I can get the CD drive. Is it worth it to pay a little more and get the CD option? Also, I was considering the 6'1" or 6' 7" models, but the finish I want is only available in 5'8". The dealer said a 5'8" was probably the largest I'd want for a 16' x 32' room anyway. Does anyone have the 5'8"? Is it still a pretty nice sized piano?
--ks

Re: Is the CD worth it? What about size?

2002-02-18 by robert_swirsky

I've only used the CD on my C-7 Mark III a couple of times, to play 
with the demo disk that came with it, and later to try a QRS disk to 
see if it worked.

I personally don't find it very useful. The CD audio just doesn't 
mix well with the live piano. It's also not a CD-ROM, so the data 
capability of the disk isn't anymore than the floppy. (The 
Disklavier data is encoded as audio tones on one of the stereo 
channels, while the music is on the other channel.)

However, the older models may not read the 1.44 MB floppies; that's 
a very useful feature to have because the old 720kb floppies are not 
widely used anymore. Yamaha, however, release their music in the 
720kb format for compatibility with older units.

Also, I've got a 7'6" piano in a room that's less than 16x32 and it 
fits just fine. I'd recommend getting the biggest piano (all other 
things being equal) you can afford. 

--
Robert
http://www.robert.to/



--- In disklavier@y..., "Kathy Sharp" <ksharp@w...> wrote:
> I'm seriously shopping for a disklavier and have found a couple 
older ones on the secondary market.  They do not have the CD 
technology.  I've been leaning toward a new piano so I can get the 
CD drive.  Is it worth it to pay a little more and get the CD 
option?  Also, I was considering the 6'1" or 6' 7" models, but the 
finish I want is only available in 5'8".  The dealer said a 5'8" was 
probably the largest I'd want for a 16' x 32' room anyway.  Does 
anyone have the 5'8"?  Is it still a pretty nice sized piano?  
> --ks

re: [disklavier] Re: Is the CD worth it? What about size?

2002-02-18 by clare@excelsiordirect.com

Hi Kathy,

I have to agree with Robert about the size - we have just taken delivery of a 6ft1 disklavier -  DC3A, and we think its just right - we certainly wouldn't want it any smaller. (Our room is 30-odd feet by 50-odd feet mind you - and COLD in winter!)
Besides the size there's also volume to be considered - the piano is plenty loud enough even in our room, so perhaps smaller is more suitable if you want it quieter - its certainly too loud to have as "background music". You can turn it down, but it does muffle the sound a bit - the best sound is at full blast!

I have to disagree with Robert about the CDs.....we think they are really good - especially the jazz on the demo cd - it's a great musical experience! We were pleasantly surprised how well the music and piano fit together.....we expected it to be a real mis-match and just to be a gimmick but we're actually really enjoying them! Mind you we can't play (yet) so we are pleased to be able to show the piano off to its full potential.... I guess its horses for courses....

I wouldn't worry about getting old 720Kb floppies to record onto - you can always "convert" the 1.44 mb ones by sticking tape over the hole in the corner!

I must do a write-up of our new piano, like I promised ages ago, with maybe even a quick intro!
We are really enjoying the piano - it gets played every single day! I can do almost a whole octave with the left hand (middle C to the C below) now - couldn't read bass clef at all before!

Cheers
Clare
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 >>  I've only used the CD on my C-7 Mark III a couple of times, to play 
 >>  with the demo disk that came with it, and later to try a QRS disk to 
 >>  see if it worked.

 >>  I personally don't find it very useful. The CD audio just doesn't 
 >>  mix well with the live piano. It's also not a CD-ROM, so the data 
 >>  capability of the disk isn't anymore than the floppy. (The 
 >>  Disklavier data is encoded as audio tones on one of the stereo 
 >>  channels, while the music is on the other channel.)

 >>  However, the older models may not read the 1.44 MB floppies; that's 
 >>  a very useful feature to have because the old 720kb floppies are not 
 >>  widely used anymore. Yamaha, however, release their music in the 
 >>  720kb format for compatibility with older units.

 >>  Also, I've got a 7'6" piano in a room that's less than 16x32 and it 
 >>  fits just fine. I'd recommend getting the biggest piano (all other 
 >>  things being equal) you can afford. 

 >>  --
 >>  Robert
 >>  http://www.robert.to/



 >>  --- In disklavier@y..., "Kathy Sharp" <ksharp@w...> wrote:
 >>  > I'm seriously shopping for a disklavier and have found a couple 
 >>  older ones on the secondary market.  They do not have the CD 
 >>  technology.  I've been leaning toward a new piano so I can get the 
 >>  CD drive.  Is it worth it to pay a little more and get the CD 
 >>  option?  Also, I was considering the 6'1" or 6' 7" models, but the 
 >>  finish I want is only available in 5'8".  The dealer said a 5'8" was 
 >>  probably the largest I'd want for a 16' x 32' room anyway.  Does 
 >>  anyone have the 5'8"?  Is it still a pretty nice sized piano?  
 >>  > --ks



 >>  To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

 >>  To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
 >>  moderator, send it to:
 >>  disklavier-owner@Yahoogroups.com

 >>  To reach our group's web site go to:
 >>  http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

 >>  Todd's family web site was completely rewritten in June 2001 and contains
 >>  some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among other things,
 >>  The url is:
 >>  http://MuncyFamily.com

 >>  THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
 >>  If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail,
 >>  go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That
 >>  will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you
 >>  insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
 >>  disklavier-unsubscribe@yahooGroups.com

 >>  Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
 >>  disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
 >>  http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
 >>  

 >>  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [disklavier] Is the CD worth it? What about size?

2002-02-18 by PianoBench@aol.com

Good afternoon, Everyone.

In a message dated 2/18/02 10:48:20 AM, ksharp@... writes:

<< I'm seriously shopping for a disklavier and have found a couple older ones 
on the secondary market.  They do not have the CD technology.  I've been 
leaning toward a new piano so I can get the CD drive.  Is it worth it to pay 
a little more and get the CD option?>>

A lot of Yamaha's software development effort these days is in the area of 
CDs with audio. Personally, I have found the results to be very attractive. 
So, if you are thinking of the piano mostly as an entertainment unit, the CD 
option is a good one in my opinion.

You can add the CD option to an older Disklavier by getting the DCD1. It 
works very well. The limitations are that the display does not show the song 
titles, it does not transpose, and it does not support the new PianoSmart 
technology. The latter feature is one that we shall be seeing in coming 
months. Yamaha will supply floppy disks of piano accompaniments that will 
coordinate with commercial audio CDs that you purchase separately in a record 
store. With PianoSmart, you can also record your own accompaniments that will 
coordinate with an audio CD on playback. I don't know if Yamaha will come up 
with a way that DCD1s can be upgraded to support this technology.

<<Also, I was considering the 6'1" or 6' 7" models, but the finish I want is 
only available in 5'8".  The dealer said a 5'8" was probably the largest I'd 
want for a 16' x 32' room anyway.  Does anyone have the 5'8"?  Is it still a 
pretty nice sized piano?   >>

I believe that the 5' 8" instrument is a nice one. Of course, pianos sound 
increasingly better the larger that they are. If you are hoping to use the 
instrument for background music, smaller is usually better. If you are a 
professional or avid hobbyist who will play the instrument yourself, you may 
appreciate the sound of a larger size. Also, starting with the 6' 1" size, 
the instrument uses a more sophisticated record system. Most people will 
probably not notice the difference, but a professional may appreciate the 
fact that the larger instruments use hammer sensors rather than key sensors.

I believe I am correct in saying that in the case of the earlier models, all 
of the grands used hammer sensors.

Regards,
PianoBench

Re: [disklavier] Re: Is the CD worth it? What about size?

2002-02-18 by Robert E. Welcyng

That is an interesting question whether a larger piano is louder than a smaller
one.  (A good salesman could probably justify either choice depending upon what
happens to be in stock.)  The energy available to a string is proportional to
the mass of the hammer assembly and to the square of its velocity.  The length
of the string and the striking point of the hammer probably influence, somewhat,
the efficiency of transfer from mechanical energy to sound energy.  I have a
feeling, however, that the sound energy issuing from a DC3 compared to a DC7 is
probably not much different when notes are struck at the same velocity.  (If
someone would lend me a DC7, I'd be happy to measure the difference.)  The main
effect of longer strings is that the lower harmonics of notes towards the bass
end of the keyboard are stonger.

The volume of the room (cubic feet) has a big influence on the sound energy
density in the room.  The larger the room, the less a problem you will have with
the instrument seeming too loud.  A small room with flat highly reflective
surfaces will not diffuse the sound very well, with the result that comb
filtering due to nearby reflections from walls and floor will cause the sound to
vary considerably depending upon your listening position.

You can't really solve the too-loud problem by adding drapes and carpet to a
small room.  That will reduce the sound level by absorption all right, but it
also reduces the high frequencies much more than the low ones.

Ideally, you'd like to have a large room with a high ceiling and non-parallel
irregular walls and ceiling.  But what are some options if you can't meet the
ideal?  There are acoustic blankets that can be installed in the piano.  I can't
guarantee this, but they supposedly attenuate all frequencie pretty much
equally.  You may be able to add some carpeting to a bare floor.  A thin carpet
without backing will not absorb the highs so strongly as the ankle-deep
foam-padded fuzzy stuff.  You may also be able promote some sound diffusion by
not placing the axis of a grand's lid hinges parallel to a wall, but rather
bridge a wall-corner so that the hinge axis strikes the two adjacent walls at
about 45-degrees.

robert_swirsky wrote:
> 
> I've only used the CD on my C-7 Mark III a couple of times, to play
> with the demo disk that came with it, and later to try a QRS disk to
> see if it worked.
> 
> I personally don't find it very useful. The CD audio just doesn't
> mix well with the live piano. It's also not a CD-ROM, so the data
> capability of the disk isn't anymore than the floppy. (The
> Disklavier data is encoded as audio tones on one of the stereo
> channels, while the music is on the other channel.)
> 
> However, the older models may not read the 1.44 MB floppies; that's
> a very useful feature to have because the old 720kb floppies are not
> widely used anymore. Yamaha, however, release their music in the
> 720kb format for compatibility with older units.
> 
> Also, I've got a 7'6" piano in a room that's less than 16x32 and it
> fits just fine. I'd recommend getting the biggest piano (all other
> things being equal) you can afford.
> 
> --
> Robert
> http://www.robert.to/
> 
> --- In disklavier@y..., "Kathy Sharp" <ksharp@w...> wrote:
> > I'm seriously shopping for a disklavier and have found a couple
> older ones on the secondary market.  They do not have the CD
> technology.  I've been leaning toward a new piano so I can get the
> CD drive.  Is it worth it to pay a little more and get the CD
> option?  Also, I was considering the 6'1" or 6' 7" models, but the
> finish I want is only available in 5'8".  The dealer said a 5'8" was
> probably the largest I'd want for a 16' x 32' room anyway.  Does
> anyone have the 5'8"?  Is it still a pretty nice sized piano?
> > --ks
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely rewritten in June 2001 and contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Re: Is the CD worth it? What about size?

2002-02-18 by robert_swirsky

--- In disklavier@y..., "Robert E. Welcyng" <rwelcyng@a...> wrote:

> I have a
> feeling, however, that the sound energy issuing from a DC3 
compared to a DC7 is
> probably not much different when notes are struck at the same 
velocity.  (If
> someone would lend me a DC7, I'd be happy to measure the 
difference.)  The main
> effect of longer strings is that the lower harmonics of notes 
towards the bass
> end of the keyboard are stonger.

You're exactly right. The difference in volume isn't that great. 
What you gain  is increased control over the dynamic range, and 
increased clarity on the lower notes. In fact, when playing 
pop/jazz, I'll voice chords differently on a longer piano than on a 
short one because the lower notes are less muddy on a bigger piano.

Before my C7 Disklavier, I had a G2 Disklavier. I can tell you that 
neither is suitable for background music--it's just too loud! You 
need to install a mute (padding under the soundboard and/or a muting 
string cover) if you want it quiet.

Even with this, it's not really a good choice for background music!

I see many people get a bad impression about solenoid players 
because they see them in airports or hotel lobbies with the volume 
turned all the way down (so there's no more dynamic range and it's 
missing notes), and it muted with padding, etc.

Use your stereo for background music!

--
Robert
http://www.robert.to/

RE: [disklavier] Is the CD worth it? What about size?

2002-02-20 by Dave Asaibene

I have a DC3A in a room 21 x 36. When listening to it is not too loud.
However in the adjacent dining room (15' away) while having dinner it is
too loud to have a conversation but now it is only background music. I
can turn the knob down and it is fine. On the other side when I open the
patio doors and I am outside it is too soft. When I bought mine I felt
that a baby grand needed to be at least 6' and besides a smaller one did
not look right either. IMO go with black ebony (easier to resell) and if
you have room the bigger the better.  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Sharp [mailto:ksharp@...] 
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 10:43 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [disklavier] Is the CD worth it? What about size?


I'm seriously shopping for a disklavier and have found a couple older
ones on the secondary market.  They do not have the CD technology.  I've
been leaning toward a new piano so I can get the CD drive.  Is it worth
it to pay a little more and get the CD option?  Also, I was considering
the 6'1" or 6' 7" models, but the finish I want is only available in
5'8".  The dealer said a 5'8" was probably the largest I'd want for a
16' x 32' room anyway.  Does anyone have the 5'8"?  Is it still a pretty
nice sized piano?  
--ks

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To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely rewritten in June 2001 and
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among other
things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.
That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@...

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

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