Disklavier

I have a Yamaha Mark II XG Player Planner and would like to be able to play the new CD 
software and the new PianoSmart discs.

However, I read on Carol Biegel's web site that many CDs aren't compatible because they are 
not A440 hZ. 

Will there be a way to work around this problem in the future so that my piano can play all of 
the PianoSmart software? Are there any alternatives to the DCD1 to allow me to play CD 
software on my piano? 

It seems like it might not be worth paying over $1000 to upgrade my piano if it won't be able 
to play 75% of the PianoSmart discs.

Any advice woudl be appreciated-
Rob

Rob,
I have the DCD1 and DSR1 arrangement on my MX80 upright and am 
pleased with the output. Yes, there are only 200 titles that are DCD1 
compatible, compared to the 500 plus titles for the Mark IV but with 
the 20 PianoSmart titles I now own, I've got at least US$600 invested 
in audio CDs and accompanying floppies. There may be 8 or 10 of the 
currently available DCD1 titles that I would purchase and if I could 
choose from the full offering that total could grow to maybe 60-70. 
Over time, I could ease those additional titles into my collection at 
a pace that would not threaten my marital relations.

I know that the selection is what you are really concerned about but 
at 500 titles available for the MK IV we are still only talking about 
an extremely small percentage of the total music that is published. 
And within that selection a lesser percentage of what anyone would 
find to suit an individual's taste.

I view the PianoSmart as an enhancement to my repertoire, as much of 
the time I really only want to listen to solos and ensembles. Many of 
my titles do not lend themselves to allowing the piano to be the 
featured instrument and have been an expensive disappointment. 

As I understand it, there is little chance of the smarts that allow 
pitch bending of the audio to A440hz being offered as an upgrade to 
the DCD1. So the real question is: Are the tens of thousands of 
dollars that an ungrade to a MK IV worth the additional selection of 
300 titles? Not to me. My budget just can't stand it. My 
unenlightened guests are thrilled with my old MX80 right now, as I 
am. The DCD1 compatible titles are constantly expanding, and will 
probably keep me satisfied until used Mark IVs are within my budget. 
Just my opinion.
Fred

Thanks, Fred. Another question...my local piano store is telling me I would need to 
upgrade my piano's motherboard to use the DCD-1. It is an MX-1Z upright. The control 
box has a "W" in the number and plays XG sounds. Does anyone know whether an upgrade 
of the motherboard would be necessary? Based on what I have read on Carol's web site, I 
think my local piano store might be wrong. 

Also, is there any way to get the DCD-1 below retail? It is a very expensive CD player.

Rob

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Dismuke" <freddismuke@...> wrote:

>
> Rob,
> I have the DCD1 and DSR1 arrangement on my MX80 upright and am 
> pleased with the output. Yes, there are only 200 titles that are DCD1 
> compatible, compared to the 500 plus titles for the Mark IV but with 
> the 20 PianoSmart titles I now own, I've got at least US$600 invested 
> in audio CDs and accompanying floppies. There may be 8 or 10 of the 
> currently available DCD1 titles that I would purchase and if I could 
> choose from the full offering that total could grow to maybe 60-70. 
> Over time, I could ease those additional titles into my collection at 
> a pace that would not threaten my marital relations.
> 
> I know that the selection is what you are really concerned about but 
> at 500 titles available for the MK IV we are still only talking about 
> an extremely small percentage of the total music that is published. 
> And within that selection a lesser percentage of what anyone would 
> find to suit an individual's taste.
> 
> I view the PianoSmart as an enhancement to my repertoire, as much of 
> the time I really only want to listen to solos and ensembles. Many of 
> my titles do not lend themselves to allowing the piano to be the 
> featured instrument and have been an expensive disappointment. 
> 
> As I understand it, there is little chance of the smarts that allow 
> pitch bending of the audio to A440hz being offered as an upgrade to 
> the DCD1. So the real question is: Are the tens of thousands of 
> dollars that an ungrade to a MK IV worth the additional selection of 
> 300 titles? Not to me. My budget just can't stand it. My 
> unenlightened guests are thrilled with my old MX80 right now, as I 
> am. The DCD1 compatible titles are constantly expanding, and will 
> probably keep me satisfied until used Mark IVs are within my budget. 
> Just my opinion.
> Fred
>

My pleasure Rob,
I'm not sure about the "W" controller problem, I think the W units 
already have enough memory already installed. I followed Carol's advice 
from her web site and have a DSR1 between my '94 model MX8O's 
controller. In my case there was no MIDI audio voice capability native 
to my piano and I added the DSR1 for the multi-timbral side before I 
even thought of getting into PianoSmart. A motherboard upgrade, if 
necessary, may be less expensive than buying a DSR1, which sells for 
about the same as a DCD1. The motherboard upgrade your dealer is 
referencing may be a software update which is available from Yamaha 
free of charge and includes the cables to connect the DCD1 to your 
controller or a DSR1 and update disks. 

As for finding a NEW DCD1 for much less than retail...that is probably 
not going to happen. I don't think Yamaha dealers can mail-order sell 
them. However, if you are as patient (and cheap) as I am, one may pop 
up on an auction site--I waited for about 6 months. The delay could 
probably be worth $700-$800.
Fred

Hello Rob,

If your control unit has a "W" in the model number, such as DKC500RWXG, it does NOT need a replacement motherboard. You will just need the DCD-1 and then order the DCD1PS OM from Yamaha Piano Service. This item includes the update disks you will need.

Bill Brandom



Bill Brandom
Senior Technical Manager, Piano Division 
YAMAHA Corporation of America 
TEL (800) 854-1569  FAX (714) 522-9301
E-mail: bbrandom@... 
Web: http://www.yamaha.com 


>>> "thegorens" <goren@...> 12/17/2006 9:36:32 AM >>>
Thanks, Fred. Another question...my local piano store is telling me I would need to 
upgrade my piano's motherboard to use the DCD-1. It is an MX-1Z upright. The control 
box has a "W" in the number and plays XG sounds. Does anyone know whether an upgrade 
of the motherboard would be necessary? Based on what I have read on Carol's web site, I 
think my local piano store might be wrong. 

Also, is there any way to get the DCD-1 below retail? It is a very expensive CD player.

Rob

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Dismuke" <freddismuke@...> wrote:
>
> Rob,
> I have the DCD1 and DSR1 arrangement on my MX80 upright and am 
> pleased with the output. Yes, there are only 200 titles that are DCD1 
> compatible, compared to the 500 plus titles for the Mark IV but with 
> the 20 PianoSmart titles I now own, I've got at least US$600 invested 
> in audio CDs and accompanying floppies. There may be 8 or 10 of the 
> currently available DCD1 titles that I would purchase and if I could 
> choose from the full offering that total could grow to maybe 60-70. 
> Over time, I could ease those additional titles into my collection at 
> a pace that would not threaten my marital relations.
> 
> I know that the selection is what you are really concerned about but 
> at 500 titles available for the MK IV we are still only talking about 
> an extremely small percentage of the total music that is published. 
> And within that selection a lesser percentage of what anyone would 
> find to suit an individual's taste.
> 
> I view the PianoSmart as an enhancement to my repertoire, as much of 
> the time I really only want to listen to solos and ensembles. Many of 
> my titles do not lend themselves to allowing the piano to be the 
> featured instrument and have been an expensive disappointment. 
> 
> As I understand it, there is little chance of the smarts that allow 
> pitch bending of the audio to A440hz being offered as an upgrade to 
> the DCD1. So the real question is: Are the tens of thousands of 
> dollars that an ungrade to a MK IV worth the additional selection of 
> 300 titles? Not to me. My budget just can't stand it. My 
> unenlightened guests are thrilled with my old MX80 right now, as I 
> am. The DCD1 compatible titles are constantly expanding, and will 
> probably keep me satisfied until used Mark IVs are within my budget. 
> Just my opinion.
> Fred
>




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Thanks, the DKC500RWKG is the controller that I have. It's good to 
know that only the DCD-1 and software updates are necessary.

If anyone ever happens to be selling a used DCD-1, let me know.

Rob

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Brandom" <BBrandom@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hello Rob,
> 
> If your control unit has a "W" in the model number, such as 
DKC500RWXG, it does NOT need a replacement motherboard. You will 
just need the DCD-1 and then order the DCD1PS OM from Yamaha Piano 
Service. This item includes the update disks you will need.
> 
> Bill Brandom
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Brandom
> Senior Technical Manager, Piano Division 
> YAMAHA Corporation of America 
> TEL (800) 854-1569  FAX (714) 522-9301
> E-mail: bbrandom@... 
> Web: http://www.yamaha.com 
> 
> 
> >>> "thegorens" <goren@...> 12/17/2006 9:36:32 AM >>>
> Thanks, Fred. Another question...my local piano store is telling 
me I would need to 
> upgrade my piano's motherboard to use the DCD-1. It is an MX-1Z 
upright. The control 
> box has a "W" in the number and plays XG sounds. Does anyone know 
whether an upgrade 
> of the motherboard would be necessary? Based on what I have read 
on Carol's web site, I 
> think my local piano store might be wrong. 
> 
> Also, is there any way to get the DCD-1 below retail? It is a very 
expensive CD player.
> 
> Rob
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Dismuke" <freddismuke@> 
wrote:
> >
> > Rob,
> > I have the DCD1 and DSR1 arrangement on my MX80 upright and am 
> > pleased with the output. Yes, there are only 200 titles that are 
DCD1 
> > compatible, compared to the 500 plus titles for the Mark IV but 
with 
> > the 20 PianoSmart titles I now own, I've got at least US$600 
invested 
> > in audio CDs and accompanying floppies. There may be 8 or 10 of 
the 
> > currently available DCD1 titles that I would purchase and if I 
could 
> > choose from the full offering that total could grow to maybe 60-
70. 
> > Over time, I could ease those additional titles into my 
collection at 
> > a pace that would not threaten my marital relations.
> > 
> > I know that the selection is what you are really concerned about 
but 
> > at 500 titles available for the MK IV we are still only talking 
about 
> > an extremely small percentage of the total music that is 
published. 
> > And within that selection a lesser percentage of what anyone 
would 
> > find to suit an individual's taste.
> > 
> > I view the PianoSmart as an enhancement to my repertoire, as 
much of 
> > the time I really only want to listen to solos and ensembles. 
Many of 
> > my titles do not lend themselves to allowing the piano to be the 
> > featured instrument and have been an expensive disappointment. 
> > 
> > As I understand it, there is little chance of the smarts that 
allow 
> > pitch bending of the audio to A440hz being offered as an upgrade 
to 
> > the DCD1. So the real question is: Are the tens of thousands of 
> > dollars that an ungrade to a MK IV worth the additional 
selection of 
> > 300 titles? Not to me. My budget just can't stand it. My 
> > unenlightened guests are thrilled with my old MX80 right now, as 
I 
> > am. The DCD1 compatible titles are constantly expanding, and 
will 
> > probably keep me satisfied until used Mark IVs are within my 
budget. 
> > Just my opinion.
> > Fred
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@... 
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@... 
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier 
> 
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access 
to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank 
email to:

> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> 
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
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>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Hi, 
the symptoms you descibe (Analog out OK, digital out delayed) would 
indicate that you have introduced some latency with the digital out. 
This is basically the time required by the A/D converter to process the 
analog signal. 
The only way I can see around this, would be to determine the amount of 
latency and whether it is constant, and then introduce the same delay 
in the MIDI files. This would involve playing the MIDI information into 
a sequencer, inserting a delay at the beginning of the song and then 
recombining it with the audio part (using a program like MID2CD)

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Fein" <tfein@...> wrote:
>
> I suspect that this is a question for the Yamaha engineers.  I have a 
DCD1 that I use with a GranTouch.  I had the DCD1 modified to add a 
digital output, which is connected to my stereo system.  When I use 
Smart Pianosoft discs (which are "DCD1 Compatible"), I have two 
problems.  First, each track starts and stops twice after a few 
seconds, and then on the third try, plays all the way through the 
song.  Second, once a track does start to play, the piano parts on the 
floppy disc are not exactly synchronized with the CD.  The piano parts 
always play a split second ahead of the CD.  

> 
>> Terry Fein
> Key Biscayne, Florida
>

From what you say, I would expect it is a problem with a data buffer 
somewhere in the digital chain - either in your stereo system DAC or in 
the digital output added to your DCD1 (in order to help avoid jitter it 
is quite common to add a small buffer). Since the DAC in the DCD1 is 
within the device and doesn't have to travel over any external cables, 
there probably is no such buffer. I don't have a digital output on my 
DCD1 so I can't check this unfortunately.

Another option might be to build a MIDI delay circuit. MIDI is just a 
serial stream after all, so one could build a device that has a small 
ring / fifo type buffer with adjustable length (to adjust the delay).

James


Terry Fein wrote:

>
> I suspect that this is a question for the Yamaha engineers.  I have a 
> DCD1 that I use with a GranTouch.  I had the DCD1 modified to add a 
> digital output, which is connected to my stereo system.  When I use 
> Smart Pianosoft discs (which are "DCD1 Compatible"), I have two 
> problems.  First, each track starts and stops twice after a few 
> seconds, and then on the third try, plays all the way through the 
> song.  Second, once a track does start to play, the piano parts on the 
> floppy disc are not exactly synchronized with the CD.  The piano parts 
> always play a split second ahead of the CD.  
> I am wondering what the cause of these problems would be and if there 
> is any way to correct them.  In particular, is there a way to delay 
> the piano parts in order to synchronize them exactly with the CD?
>  
> The analog output on the DCD1 synchronizes perfectly.  However, the 
> sound quality of the CD's is much better through the digital output, 
> so it would be a shame not to be able to use it.
>  
> Thanks.
>  
> Terry Fein
> Key Biscayne, Florida
>

Good morning, everyone.

Terry, it sounds like you have two problems: (1) the DCD1 is  
misbehaving and (2) the piano is playing early.

It is possible that the firmware in the DCD1 is not up to date, but I  
don't know if that fact would result in this problem.

As for #2: It sounds as though your GranTouch Disklavier is not  
playing with the normal 500 ms delay. Try doing a Reset of the Setup  
on the Disklavier and see if that fixes the problem (press Function  
and the the Right Arrow button repeatedly until the cursor is in  
front of Reset, then press Enter, etc.).

You might want to call Yamaha Piano Service: (800) 854-1569 between  
8:30-5:00 PST. Push 2 at the first menu choice and 2 at the second  
menu choice.

Regards,

PianoBench

>
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Terry Fein" <tfein@...> wrote:
> >
> > I suspect that this is a question for the Yamaha engineers. I have a
> DCD1 that I use with a GranTouch. I had the DCD1 modified to add a
> digital output, which is connected to my stereo system. When I use
> Smart Pianosoft discs (which are "DCD1 Compatible"), I have two
> problems. First, each track starts and stops twice after a few
> seconds, and then on the third try, plays all the way through the
> song. Second, once a track does start to play, the piano parts on the
> floppy disc are not exactly synchronized with the CD. The piano parts
> always play a split second ahead of the CD.
> >
> >> Terry Fein
> > Key Biscayne, Florida

Regarding my earlier post about latency, this does of course imply that the "Delay In" function has been turned on and the problem still exists.

Adrian Thomas

On Jan 8 2007, George F. Litterst wrote:

>As for #2: It sounds as though your GranTouch Disklavier is not
>playing with the normal 500 ms delay. Try doing a Reset of the Setup
>on the Disklavier and see if that fixes the problem (press Function
>and the the Right Arrow button repeatedly until the cursor is in
>front of Reset, then press Enter, etc.).
>
>

Adrian,

I still recommend doing the Reset of the Setup. If that does not  
solve the problem, a call to Piano Service is in order.

Regards,
PianoBench

On Jan 8, 2007, at 9:33 AM, Adrian Thomas wrote:

>
>
> Regarding my earlier post about latency, this does of course imply  
> that the "Delay In" function has been turned on and the problem  
> still exists.
>
>
> Adrian Thomas
>
> On Jan 8 2007, George F. Litterst wrote:
>
> >As for #2: It sounds as though your GranTouch Disklavier is not
> >playing with the normal 500 ms delay. Try doing a Reset of the Setup
> >on the Disklavier and see if that fixes the problem (press Function
> >and the the Right Arrow button repeatedly until the cursor is in
> >front of Reset, then press Enter, etc.).
> >
> >
>
>
>

[Excerpt of personal correspondence with Terry regarding the sync
problems with his modified DCD-1:]


On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Terry Fein wrote:

> I suspect that this is a question for the Yamaha engineers.  I have a
> DCD1 that I use with a GranTouch.  I had the DCD1 modified to add a
> digital output, which is connected to my stereo system.

> First, each track starts and stops twice after a few seconds, and then
> on the third try, plays all the way through the song.

This may be related to the DCD-1 pre-reading the start of each track to
read enough MIDI data to determine the title of the song and whether it
is a CD track to be used with the PianoSmart feature.  The audio output
would normally be masked by the DSP during this pre-reading, but you are
hearing it because you are probably tapped in earlier in the pipeline.

I suspect the sync problem you have is related to your modification
grabbing the signal ahead of the final stage of processing - the
demodulation of the MIDI data channel.

You may be able to solve both problems by grabbing the digital output
further downstream (past the DSP) as it hits the DAC for the analog
output.


Mark

Thanks for all the excellent thoughts and suggestions regarding the sync 
problem with the digital output.  In the meantime, I am using the analog 
output with a receiver I recently purchased, and it actually sounds quite 
good.

I do plan on trying a wireless MIDI set-up in the near future.  I've got two 
MIDI cables running across my room now from my stereo system to my piano.  I 
had ordered a wireless MIDI transmitter and receiver that was going to be 
distributed by Yamaha, but was told today by the vendor that Yamaha had 
cancelled the distribution contract due to manufacturer delays.  However, 
there is another system made by M-Audio which is apparently about to ship.

Terry Fein

Where can I buy a DCD1? I already posted this question on february and
get only one answer but after checking, DCD1 is no more available in
Europe.
Is there any store or shops in the US or Canada having still one in
stock? Please quote.
Thks for your help.

Gerard.

Seems like the DCD1 is not available in the U. S. Wonder why? Visit:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D2295%252526CTID%25253D204600%252526CNTYP%25253DPRODUCT,00.html