Disklavier

Hey all

This is a great forum, so I want to pose a question to you gurus.

I have a family heirloom piano, its a zender small cottage style and 
lacks one octave of a full range. I havent yet hit this limit yet but 
in the next few years probably will (?). Whilst the piano has certain 
sentimental value (and would never be sold but passed on within the 
family), I am considering a disklavier (model DU1a upright) for the 
following reasons.

1. Its new and looks sexy :-)

2. Seriously, does the piano have a great value in learning, I mean 
some of the feature for example allow recording one hand then 
another, does this REALLY help in teaching process ?

3. Does the action of the Disklavier (whilst the unit is playing) 
prove to be invasive of the overal sound quality (I am one of those 
people with very acute hearing and unfortunately for me can detect 
all kinds of nuances - one example is on the one unit i have seen so 
far I am sure I am hear the solenoids whilst the thing is playing ;-)

4. When a "human" is playing, does having the disklavier hardware 
install affect the piano action (eg. DU1a vs U1)

5. Lastly software - I checkout the Yamaha site and whilst there is a 
number of software available, not as much as I would have thought 
from the classical side, example I am a keen Mozart beethoven lover 
and would like to see some piano concerto. On this line I have seen a 
number of sites that provide MIDI files for such concertos. Are these 
as good ? Certainly when I have played these downloaded files through 
my computer they dont sound too hot, any advice here ? Maybe they 
sound better on a "proppa" piano.

Sorry for so many questions, and I would appreciate this groups 
obvious knowledge on any / all points above !

Cheers

J

J,

I'll take a shot at answering a few of your questions.  I have had a 
disklavier for approximately four years.  My first disklavier was a 
DC3IIXG unit (a Mark II disklavier), and I traded that disklavier for a 
DC3A (Mark III) unit about two years ago. 

<Seriously, does the piano have a great value in learning, I mean some 
of the feature for example allow recording one hand then another, does 
this REALLY help in teaching process ?>

When I retired about three years ago I spent my first year with my 
disklavier as my teacher using software entitled "Teach Me Piano" from 
Voyetra http://voyetra.com/site/products/tmp/serieshome.asp.  I 
completed the entire course of 150 lessons in about 14 months and had 
learned to play all 75 of the pieces in the course.  I found that the 
disklavier's ability to play one part while I played another to be of 
considerable help in learning a piece, especially a piece with rhythmic 
complexities (e.g. dotted note rhythms). The Voyetra software will also 
score your performance of the music in this courseware on both pitch 
accuracy (i.e. did you play the right note) and on rhythmic accuracy.  
The former (pitch accuracy) is 100% reliable.  The later (rhythmic 
accuracy) is not reliable for any but the most simple pieces.  In other 
words, once you start playing pieces with a complicated left and right 
hand, it is necessary to simply ignore the rhythmic scoring that the 
software assigns to your playing.  Bottom line: if you are a beginning 
piano student (as I was) then the disklavier with software such as this 
is a very good way to begin learning to play the piano.  However, it is 
no substitute for a good teacher, as I found when I began taking lessons 
about two years ago from a teacher who uses the Suzuki Piano Method.  
I'll be happy to go into greater detail on any of the above if you wish 
to contact me by private e-mail. 

I cannot hear the solenoids on my DC3A  even when I have the piano's 
control unit set to -10 dB (the lowest setting at which the acoustic 
piano can be played). The only time I hear the solenoids in my DC3A is 
when I turn on the silent feature and set the volume so low that no 
sound is coming from the piano.  Even then, the solenoids are barely 
audible.  I would suggest that the disklavier that you have seen and 
heard needs some work done on its solenoids. 

<When a "human" is playing, does having the disklavier hardware install 
affect the piano action (e.g.. DU1a vs U1)>

No, the design of the disklavier is such that the disklavier hardware 
cannot impact the keyboard action in any way. There is absolutely no 
difference between playing a DC3A disklavier and the same C3 
Conservatory Series acoustic piano, and I speak from both an 
understanding of how the disklavier works and from having compared both 
in considerable detail with my own two hands. 

The software available on the web, while abundant in quantity, varies 
enormously in quality.  Much of it  consists of midi files which have 
been sequenced through step entry note methods or music scanning 
methods.  Neither of these methods can approximate well the piano when 
played by a fine pianist.  However, there are some excellent pieces of 
classical music on the web.  You simply have to search form them.  
Again, I can help you privately if you wish to contact me on this.  
Yamaha and others also have some very very nice classical recordings. 

I hope the above helps.

Tom


jgroarke_uk wrote:

>Hey all
>
>This is a great forum, so I want to pose a question to you gurus.
>
>I have a family heirloom piano, its a zender small cottage style and 
>lacks one octave of a full range. I havent yet hit this limit yet but 
>in the next few years probably will (?). Whilst the piano has certain 
>sentimental value (and would never be sold but passed on within the 
>family), I am considering a disklavier (model DU1a upright) for the 
>following reasons.
>
>1. Its new and looks sexy :-)
>
>2. Seriously, does the piano have a great value in learning, I mean 
>some of the feature for example allow recording one hand then 
>another, does this REALLY help in teaching process ?
>
>3. Does the action of the Disklavier (whilst the unit is playing) 
>prove to be invasive of the overal sound quality (I am one of those 
>people with very acute hearing and unfortunately for me can detect 
>all kinds of nuances - one example is on the one unit i have seen so 
>far I am sure I am hear the solenoids whilst the thing is playing ;-)
>
>4. When a "human" is playing, does having the disklavier hardware 
>install affect the piano action (eg. DU1a vs U1)
>
>5. Lastly software - I checkout the Yamaha site and whilst there is a 
>number of software available, not as much as I would have thought 
>from the classical side, example I am a keen Mozart beethoven lover 
>and would like to see some piano concerto. On this line I have seen a 
>number of sites that provide MIDI files for such concertos. Are these 
>as good ? Certainly when I have played these downloaded files through 
>my computer they dont sound too hot, any advice here ? Maybe they 
>sound better on a "proppa" piano.
>
>Sorry for so many questions, and I would appreciate this groups 
>obvious knowledge on any / all points above !
>
>Cheers
>
>J
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>Todd's family web site was completely updated 01/15/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
>http://MuncyFamily.com 
>
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>  
>

A Disklavier IS a "proper piano" in every way, first and foremost.  It also
happens to have a computer installed inside of the mechanisms that make it
both record and playback piano performances.  As a teaching tool, it enables
you to have a piano teacher somewhere in the world and not necessarily in
your neighborhood, by email even, and the ability to play multi-hand piano
pieces by yourself.  I find the mechanisms are very quiet and often
undetectable.

Best thing to do is go look and play  some at a store and decide for
yourself if you would like to own one.  You will certainly never find a
"real" piano that is more fun, and it certainly won't be sitting in your
home gathering dust from lack of use!

Carol Beigel

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003, Carol Beigel wrote:
> A Disklavier IS a "proper piano" in every way, first and foremost.  It also
> happens to have a computer installed inside of the mechanisms that make it
> both record and playback piano performances.  As a teaching tool, it enables
> you to have a piano teacher somewhere in the world and not necessarily in
> your neighborhood, by email even, and the ability to play multi-hand piano
> pieces by yourself.  I find the mechanisms are very quiet and often
> undetectable.
>
> Best thing to do is go look and play  some at a store and decide for
> yourself if you would like to own one.  You will certainly never find a
> "real" piano that is more fun, and it certainly won't be sitting in your
> home gathering dust from lack of use!

"I agree with Carol" (I think we should coin that phrase!) :) The
disklavier is a fantastic tool, and it is built into some really nice
pianos.

I've owned an MPX1Z (the forerunner to the DU1A) since April, and am
extremely impressed. I spent quite some time comparing the MPX1Z to normal
U1 uprights and couldn't tell a difference to how the normal piano plays.
The feel when in silent system isn't "quite" right for my liking, but its
better than any other digital instrument I've tried, and certainly a
fantastic practice tool.

Re: solenoid noise: bear in mind that a piano action is quite noisy
anyway. It is a complex set of moving parts, some of which fly together at
high speed, and it is all made of wood which is quite a good resonator.
I don't believe the solenoids add to this noise - IMO it is certainly no
more than the noise from a pianists fingers striking the keys.

For example, If you listen to someone playing a disklavier in silent
mode, and then set the disklavier playing back there is no noticable
difference in volume.

Unfortunately, because of the small nature of affordable British houses, I
have to have the piano right next to the dining table, and in order to
avoid offending guests I often have to have the silent mode on with the
action switched off if I want the instrument playing. One day I might live
somewhere bigger though :)

As Carol says, the instrument is really fun. For me it is really good to
be able to practice on a real piano but have the drums and bass as if I
were playing with the band. I've also been able to record other pianists
improvising solos and then replay them more slowly to analyse what they
are doing - it's a great learning tool.

I find the piano works great as a controller for sequencing too - some
people disagree with this, but I think it depends on what you are trying
to achieve - obviously the disklavier doesn't have modulation / pitch bend
wheels so it isn't ideal for playing those soaring synth solos - thats
what cheap midi keyboards are for :D

Cheers,

James