Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

2004 International Piano-e-Competition

2004-02-08 by midi_magic2000

Hi All

I have a CVP 209, so I was wondering which set of files to download 
from the 2004 International Piano-e-Competition. Should it be the XP, 
Enhanced or the Eseq. So I went for all three. Having listened to the 
same song on all formats I can't hear any differences.

Now here is a question.  Looking through the midi files of the XP 
format I have found a lot of Ctrl 16 and 81 commands.
My CVP does not use these so there is no mention of them in the 
manual.

Can someone with a PRO, have a look in their midi data book and let 
me know what the two commands do? I hate not knowing what all these 
commands are for.

Thanks

Midi Magic

2004 International Piano-e-Competition

2004-02-08 by midi_magic2000

Hi All

I have a CVP 209, so I was wondering which set of files to download 
from the 2004 International Piano-e-Competition. Should it be the XP, 
Enhanced or the Eseq. So I went for all three. Having listened to the 
same song on all formats I can't hear any differences.

Now here is a question.  Looking through the midi files of the XP 
format I have found a lot of Ctrl 16 and 81 commands.
My CVP does not use these so there is no mention of them in the 
manual.

Can someone with a PRO, have a look in their midi data book and let 
me know what the two commands do? I hate not knowing what all these 
commands are for.

Thanks

Midi Magic

e-Comp: DKV Pro MIDI Data

2004-02-08 by rrl_edm

Unlike other Disklavier models, the "Pro" has the ability of 
recording with much finer resolution when it records in XP mode.  
Instead of basic pedal ON/OFF (for compatibility with older DKVs), 
or the continuous ("Half Pedal") pedal data with 128 increments, the 
Pro uses a scale of 0-1023. In order to store the extra bits of data 
in a MIDI file, XP mode makes use of normally undefined MIDI 
controllers.  These are the control numbers you're seeing in the 
MIDI data for the e-Comp PRO files.

I'm presently away from home and don't have access to additional 
info on the specific MIDI control numbers (CC #s) used by the Pro to 
extend the default MIDI resolution.  However, CC#16 and CC#81 sound 
about right.

PianoBench will be able to offer a better explanation.

Regards,

Robert 

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "midi_magic2000" 
<magic_midi@h...> wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> I have a CVP 209, so I was wondering which set of files to 
download 
> from the 2004 International Piano-e-Competition. Should it be the 
XP, 
> Enhanced or the Eseq. So I went for all three. Having listened to 
the 
> same song on all formats I can't hear any differences.
> 
> Now here is a question.  Looking through the midi files of the XP 
> format I have found a lot of Ctrl 16 and 81 commands.
> My CVP does not use these so there is no mention of them in the 
> manual.
> 
> Can someone with a PRO, have a look in their midi data book and 
let 
> me know what the two commands do? I hate not knowing what all 
these

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> commands are for.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Midi Magic

Re: 2004 International Piano-e-Competition

2004-02-08 by rrl_edm

Unlike other Disklavier models, the "Pro" has the ability of 
recording with much finer resolution when it records in XP mode.  
Instead of basic pedal ON/OFF (for compatibility with older DKVs), 
or the continuous ("Half Pedal") pedal data with 128 increments, the 
Pro uses a scale of 0-1023. In order to store the extra bits of data 
in a MIDI file, XP mode makes use of normally undefined MIDI 
controllers.  These are the control numbers you're seeing in the 
MIDI data for the e-Comp PRO files.

If you reread PianoBench's post (#3721) about the Piano e-
Competition files you'll find a brief explanation about the various 
ZIP file types and how they're optimized for use with the various 
generations of DKVs (older DKV's with ON/OFF pedal + E-SEQ format, 
newer DKV's with continuous pedal + Type 0 SMF format, and Pro 
models).  With reference to the Pro, PianoBench writes, "...the 
files include 1023 increments of note-on (hammer) velocity, 1023 
increments of key velocity, 1023 increments of note-of (key) 
velocity, and 128 increments of soft pedal and sustain pedal."

I'm presently away from home and don't have access to additional 
info on the specific MIDI control numbers (CC #s) used by the Pro to 
extend the default MIDI resolution.  However, CC#16 and CC#81 sound 
about right.

PianoBench will be able to offer a better explanation.

Regards,

Robert

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "midi_magic2000" 
<magic_midi@h...> wrote:
> Hi All
> 
> I have a CVP 209, so I was wondering which set of files to 
download 
> from the 2004 International Piano-e-Competition. Should it be the 
XP, 
> Enhanced or the Eseq. So I went for all three. Having listened to 
the 
> same song on all formats I can't hear any differences.
> 
> Now here is a question.  Looking through the midi files of the XP 
> format I have found a lot of Ctrl 16 and 81 commands.
> My CVP does not use these so there is no mention of them in the 
> manual.
> 
> Can someone with a PRO, have a look in their midi data book and 
let 
> me know what the two commands do? I hate not knowing what all 
these

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> commands are for.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Midi Magic

Re: e-Comp: DKV Pro MIDI Data

2004-02-08 by midi_magic2000

Hi Robert

I guessed that was the case. As there appears to be no difference in 
playback on my CVP I have gone for the Eseq files. These have also 
been fully titled unlike the midi files and as I have been used to 
seeing titles within the Yamplayer I have downloaded all the Eseq 
zips.

Thanks

Midi Magic

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "rrl_edm" <r_leblanc@s...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Unlike other Disklavier models, the "Pro" has the ability of 
> recording with much finer resolution when it records in XP mode.  
> Instead of basic pedal ON/OFF (for compatibility with older DKVs), 
> or the continuous ("Half Pedal") pedal data with 128 increments, 
the 
> Pro uses a scale of 0-1023. In order to store the extra bits of 
data 
> in a MIDI file, XP mode makes use of normally undefined MIDI 
> controllers.  These are the control numbers you're seeing in the 
> MIDI data for the e-Comp PRO files.
> 
> I'm presently away from home and don't have access to additional 
> info on the specific MIDI control numbers (CC #s) used by the Pro 
to

Show quoted textHide quoted text

> extend the default MIDI resolution.  However, CC#16 and CC#81 sound 
> about right.
> 
> PianoBench will be able to offer a better explanation.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Robert 
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "midi_magic2000" 
> <magic_midi@h...> wrote:
> > Hi All
> > 
> > I have a CVP 209, so I was wondering which set of files to 
> download 
> > from the 2004 International Piano-e-Competition. Should it be the 
> XP, 
> > Enhanced or the Eseq. So I went for all three. Having listened to 
> the 
> > same song on all formats I can't hear any differences.
> > 
> > Now here is a question.  Looking through the midi files of the XP 
> > format I have found a lot of Ctrl 16 and 81 commands.
> > My CVP does not use these so there is no mention of them in the 
> > manual.
> > 
> > Can someone with a PRO, have a look in their midi data book and 
> let 
> > me know what the two commands do? I hate not knowing what all 
> these 
> > commands are for.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Midi Magic

Re: [disklavier] 2004 International Piano-e-Competition

2004-02-09 by PianoBench@aol.com

Good evening, everyone.

In a message dated 2/8/04 5:01:08 PM, magic_midi@... writes:

I have a CVP 209, so I was wondering which set of files to download
from the 2004 International Piano-e-Competition. Should it be the XP,
Enhanced or the Eseq. So I went for all three. Having listened to the
same song on all formats I can't hear any differences.

This is good news.

MIDI instruments should ignore MIDI data that they don't understand. So long as you have an instrument that is not bothered by lots of data that do not apply to it, these files should sound the same on your instrument.

One exception would be playing the XP files from an external MIDI source, such as a computer. There is so much extra data that the note events will get spread out in time slightly during transmission. This is due to the fact that MIDI transmission is serial: one event is sent at a time. This fact may affect the timing of the notes ever so slightly. Most people would never notice, however.

I recommend the Enhanced files for any Clavinova owner whose instrument can read SMFs from floppy disk or who plans to play these files from a computer. I recommend the E-SEQ files for Clavinova owners who intend to play these performances from floppy disk but whose Clavinovas do not read SMFs.

Now here is a question. Looking through the midi files of the XP
format I have found a lot of Ctrl 16 and 81 commands.
My CVP does not use these so there is no mention of them in the
manual.

In order to obtain 3 extra bits of resolution for note-on velocity, key-on velocity, and note-off (key release) velocity, the Pro uses Controllers 16 and 81 to store the extra values. These MIDI controllers are normally undefined as far as other MIDI instruments are concerned.

The problem with using these controllers is that they are not note-specific. Therefore, the Pro also uses Key Aftertouch messages--which are note specific--to determine which pitches these extra controllers apply to.

When all possible XP data for a note-on event are present, you get these values:

--Key Aftertouch Message
This message consists of both a note number and a value. In this context, the Key Aftertouch message is used as a flag to determine the pitch to which the following 2 controllers apply. In this case, its value is always 28. This is a non-traditional use of the Key Aftertouch message.

--General Purpose Controller 6 (Controller 81)
This message should appear next, on the same clock tick as the Key Aftertouch message. Its value contains the1st 7 bits of key-on velocity.

--General Purpose Controller 1 (Controller 16)
This message should appear next, on the same clock tick. Its value contains the extra 3 bits of key-on velocity.

--Note-On Message
This is the traditional note-on message. It contains the 1st 7 bits of hammer velocity. It may occur slightly later than the 3 key-on velocity messages.

--General Purpose Controller 1 (Controller 16)
This message should appear next, on the same clock tick as the note-on message. It contains the extra 3 bits of hammer velocity.

When all possible XP data for a note-off event are present, you get these values:

--Note-off Message
This is the traditional note-off message and it consists of both a note number and a value. The value represents the first 7 bits of key release velocity

--General Purpose Controller 1 (Controller 16)
This message should appear next, on the same clock tick as the note-off message. Its value contains the extra 3 bits of key release velocity.

Silent notes in XP format are interesting. They have the following data:

--Key Aftertouch Message
This message consists of both a note number and a value. In this context, the Key Aftertouch message is used as a flag to determine the pitch to which the following 2 controllers apply. In this case, its value is always 28. This is a non-traditional use of the Key Aftertouch message.

--General Purpose Controller 6 (Controller 81)
This message should appear next, on the same clock tick as the Key Aftertouch message. Its value contains the1st 7 bits of key-on velocity.

--General Purpose Controller 1 (Controller 16)
This message should appear next, on the same clock tick. Its value contains the extra 3 bits of key-on velocity.

--Key Aftertouch Message
This message occurs some time later and consists of both a note number and a value of 127.

--Key Aftertouch Message
This message occurs still later and consists of both a note number and a value of 0.

NOTE: If you wish to view XP data in a sequencer, you may not see the data properly. Most sequencers do not display MIDI data in its native format. Rather, they read MIDI data into their own format. If you edit the file and resave it as a SMF, the sequencer will write it back out to a SMF, possibly changing the original, subtle order of events as it does so. The result is that many sequencers will mess up the XP data.

Note further that editing XP is a tricky proposition: if you transpose a note, you must transpose the corresponding Key Aftertouch message. If you eliminate a note, you should eliminate the associated XP data. If you change the start or stop times of a note, you must adjust the timing of the associated XP data. If you add a note, it is not necessary to add any XP data but you could do so, if you choose.

Regards,
PianoBench