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Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

2004-06-30 by PianoBench@aol.com

Good morning, everyone.

In a message dated 6/30/04 6:04:57 AM, Shane writes:

I'm trying to find out if there
are programs that will allow me to take music I've recorded on disklavier
and transcribe it through my computer. Any help on this would be greatly
appreciated as this would help me accomplish goals I've been thinking
about for years.

There are many notation programs that will transcribe a saved MIDI file into notation and will also transcribe your playing as you play in real time. Examples are Finale, Sibelius, Overture, and MasterTracks. These programs have all sorts of additional features for editing the notation display.

There are also sequencing programs that will do the same, but sequencers don't usually do as good a job with notation. Their real purpose is to provide you with MIDI editing features to correct or improve the MIDI playback.

There are 4 especially challenging issues when transcribing a piano performance:

(1) Aligning the Notes to the Beats
The simplest way to proceed is to listen to a metronome as you play. That way, your notes more or less align to recognized beats. Finale and Sibelius also have features for letting you play without a metronome reference. Their features work well but take some practice.

If you are trying to transcribe existing recordings that were made without reference to a metronome, you must reclock the pieces. Otherwise, the notation with be an unfixable mess. The reason is that all MIDI files have a built-in tempo. Although you may not have listened to the metronome when you made your recording, the recording was made with reference to a default metronome, and your notes will not align with the established beats.

Some sequencers have a feature for reclocking (although few, if any, call it "reclocking"). The best one is Performer, from Mark of the Unicorn. This Macintosh program has a feature called Adjust Beats. What you do is view your performance in "piano roll" style notation, in which the notes are laid out horizontally on a grid. On the grid you can see vertical lines that show beats and barlines. With the Adjust Beats feature turned on, you can drag the beat lines to the notes to which they apply. This causes the notes to become realigned on the grid.

You might think that realigning on the grid will change the playback of the piece. It doesn't. The reason is that Performer computes a tempo map that captures all of your rhythmic nuances.

Once you have reclocked your piece, you can proceed to the next issue.

(2) Hand Split
Notation programs have to guess which hand played which note and which notes should be notated on which staff. If you are playing into a notation program in real time, you can specify a split point. Unfortunately, a complex piece will not have a single split point that works for the entire piece.

As an alternative, you can edit your performance in a sequencer, again using piano roll view. The technique is simple. Look at the layout of your notes, and then use the mouse to select the notes that belong to either the right- or left-hand part. Cut them and paste them into a separate track.

If you plan to save your Standard MIDI File as Type 0, be sure that you have assigned each hand to separate MIDI channels. (The Disklavier, for example, typically assumes that the left hand has been assigned to channel 1 and right hand to channel 2, so you might want to make the same choice.)

If you save your SMF as Type 1, the hands can be assigned to the same or to different channels. Either way, you can open the SMF in your notation program, and your notation software will be able to assign the separate hand tracks to different staves. From there, you can edit the look of the notation as necessary.

(3) Quantization
When your notation program does its transcription (of either a saved performance or a real time performance), your software needs to know some information about how short the shortest note values should be. For example, if you did not play anything shorter than an eighth note, you should ask your notation program to quantize your playing to the nearest eighth note. That way, you will avoid seeing things like triple dotted 64th notes.

If you want, you can use your sequencer to quantize your playing before sending the performance to your notation program.

NOTE: Quantization does no good if your file was not recorded to a metronome or has not been reclocked. If you quantize a non-clocked file, you will cause your notes to become aligned to beats that make no musical sense.

(4) Multiple Voices on a Staff
This is a tough issue for a notation program. Let's say that your right hand holds one note for the duration of a half note and simultaneously plays two consecutive quarter notes. In proper notation, you should have two voices on the right-hand staff.

In this sort of situation, many programs will shorten your half note to match the quarter note that was played at the same time. In this case, you will have to edit the notation in your notation program. Other programs may try to notate the two voices properly. If they are set up to do that, they may also falsely notate two voices in other places because you slightly overlapped two notes in your recording. Either way, you will probably have some post-transcription editing to do.

Regards,
PianoBench

Re: [disklavier] Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

2004-07-15 by Shane A Davis

Hello all,
--What are the names of some sequencing programs for "reclocking" for
other than Macintosh computers. So do sequencing programs reformat your
midi file saved to a disk or does it create a new file that is
'reclocked' ?  Do you have to save the new file to your disk then access
it through your notation program?  
--I have a disklavier that does not save in midi format but I've heard
there is a program that will convert the format I have to midi , does
anybody know of these programs?
Thanks for all help offered,
Sincerely 
Shane

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Re: [disklavier] Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

2004-07-15 by PianoBench@aol.com

Good morning, everyone.

In a message dated 7/15/04 4:52:38 AM, Shane writes:

--What are the names of some sequencing programs for "reclocking" for
other than Macintosh computers.


I know that some or all of the Cakewalk sequencers have/had a feature called "fit improvisation." The basic idea is that after recording or opening your sequence, you play it back and tap the beat along with the playback using your MIDI (possibly Disklavier) keyboard. Of course, you record your taps to a separate track. Then, you use the fit improvisation feature to do the reclocking based on your tap track.

This works well except that your tapping will never align pefectly with the recorded notes of the sequence. If you are clever and have the time to spare, you can work on aligning your taps manually to the notes before doing the fit improvisation feature.

Hopefully other people on this list know of other PC programs.

So do sequencing programs reformat your
midi file saved to a disk or does it create a new file that is
'reclocked' ?


Sequencers typically "import" MIDI files into their own format. By default, you usually save the file into the sequencer's proprietary format unless you use the "Save as..." or "Export..." option to resave as a Standard MIDI file. When you "Save as..." or "Export...", you can name and save in a way that does not over-write your original MIDI file.

There are few sequencers that actually use the native SMF format as their own file format.

Do you have to save the new file to your disk then access
it through your notation program?


Yes.

--I have a disklavier that does not save in midi format but I've heard
there is a program that will convert the format I have to midi , does
anybody know of these programs?

Other people on this list can comment about what is available in the vault. I will point out that you can also play your Disklavier and send the MIDI data to a connected computer.

Regards,
PianoBench

Re: [disklavier] Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

2004-07-15 by Robert Welcyng

To add to PianoBench's excellent description, Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 and 
its replacement, Sonar 2, both provide "Fit Improvisation" functions. 
Surely Sonar 3 has it as well. The procedures in those programs are 
basically identical.  For step-by-step directions, see Scott Garrigus' 
books "Cakewalk Power!", "Sonar 2 Power!", or "Sonar 3 Power!"

For converting the DKV's E-SEQ format to MIDI, I prefer the Giebler 
Yamaha Diskette Manager Utility.  See www.giebler.com.  It's a DOS 
program that you will have trouble running under Win 98 or later.  I run 
it on an old Win 95 computer that I've kept for that purpose.

PianoBench@... wrote:
> Good morning, everyone.
> 
> In a message dated 7/15/04 4:52:38 AM, Shane writes:
> 
>> --What are the names of some sequencing programs for "reclocking" for
>> other than Macintosh computers.
> 
> 
> I know that some or all of the Cakewalk sequencers have/had a feature 
> called "fit improvisation." The basic idea is that after recording or 
> opening your sequence, you play it back and tap the beat along with the 
> playback using your MIDI (possibly Disklavier) keyboard. Of course, you 
> record your taps to a separate track. Then, you use the fit 
> improvisation feature to do the reclocking based on your tap track.
> 
> This works well except that your tapping will never align pefectly with 
> the recorded notes of the sequence. If you are clever and have the time 
> to spare, you can work on aligning your taps manually to the notes 
> before doing the fit improvisation feature.
> 
> Hopefully other people on this list know of other PC programs.
> 
>> So do sequencing programs reformat your
>> midi file saved to a disk or does it create a new file that is
>> 'reclocked' ?
> 
> 
> Sequencers typically "import" MIDI files into their own format. By 
> default, you usually save the file into the sequencer's proprietary 
> format unless you use the "Save as..." or "Export..." option to resave 
> as a Standard MIDI file. When you "Save as..." or "Export...", you can 
> name and save in a way that does not over-write your original MIDI file.
> 
> There are few sequencers that actually use the native SMF format as 
> their own file format.
> 
>>   Do you have to save the new file to your disk then access
>> it through your notation program? 
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> --I have a disklavier that does not save in midi format but I've heard
>> there is a program that will convert the format I have to midi , does
>> anybody know of these programs?
> 
> 
> Other people on this list can comment about what is available in the 
> vault. I will point out that you can also play your Disklavier and send 
> the MIDI data to a connected computer.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> 
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> 
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
> 
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> 
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains 
> some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other 
> things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
> 
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-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Re: Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

2004-07-15 by stevedsanders

I see people are still discussing PianoBench's great summary of the challen=
ges of 
transcribing Disklavier recorded performances want to thank him for articul=
ating so clearly 
the issues confronting the user. I have dealt with all these situations and=
 appreciated 
seeing them organized and explained so well.

I envy Performer users who have this Adjust Beats feature in their sequence=
r and wondered 
if anyone knows if Emagic's Logic audio/MIDI sequencer has anything similar=
? As a 
longtme Mac user, once Apple purchased Emagic I decided to switch to Logic =
from the old 
Studio Vision, so money-wise it would be hard to now justify buying Perform=
er also just to 
get this capability. Switching to a PC to use Cakewalk/Sonar is not a viabl=
e optiion for me 
either.

This is a feature I have wanted to have at my disposal as i would like to b=
e able to play on 
my Disklavier without regard to the sequencer clock and later transcribe th=
e work if I 
improvise something I like or if it is a classical piece played with rubato=
.

I own Finale and Sibelius and have used their live input methods, but this =
only works for 
me in cases where the music already exists -- where I am inputting the piec=
e to transpose 
it, perhaps. In those cases, I usually use the keyboard in combination with=
 the numeric 
keypad method to enter this kind of music most efficiently, because of the =
need for layers 
in piano music (your number 4 item - multiple voices on staff).

I have found Logic to be a dense program and have purchased Apple Pro Train=
ing Series: 
Logic 6, but have not yet had the time to work through it. I would be energ=
ized to dig in to 
Logic if it had anything like the Adjust Beats feature I've been wanting fo=
r years.

Thanks for any info anyone might be able to shed here.

Steve

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, PianoBench@a... wrote:
> Good morning, everyone.
> 
> In a message dated 6/30/04 6:04:57 AM, Shane writes:
> 
> > I'm trying to find out if there
> > are programs that will allow me to take music I've recorded on disklavi=
er
> > and transcribe it through my computer.  Any help on this would be great=
ly
> > appreciated as this would help me accomplish goals I've been thinking
> > about for years.
> > 
> There are many notation programs that will transcribe a saved MIDI file i=
nto 
> notation and will also transcribe your playing as you play in real time. =

> Examples are Finale, Sibelius, Overture, and MasterTracks. These programs=
 have all 
> sorts of additional features for editing the notation display.
> 
> There are also sequencing programs that will do the same, but sequencers =

> don't usually do as good a job with notation. Their real purpose is to pr=
ovide you 
> with MIDI editing features to correct or improve the MIDI playback.
> 
> There are 4 especially challenging issues when transcribing a piano 
> performance:
> 
> (1) Aligning the Notes to the Beats
> The simplest way to proceed is to listen to a metronome as you play. That=
 
> way, your notes more or less align to recognized beats. Finale and Sibeli=
us also 
> have features for letting you play without a metronome reference. Their 
> features work well but take some practice.
> 
> If you are trying to transcribe existing recordings that were made withou=
t 
> reference to a metronome, you must reclock the pieces. Otherwise, the not=
ation 
> with be an unfixable mess. The reason is that all MIDI files have a built=
-in 
> tempo. Although you may not have listened to the metronome when you made =
your 
> recording, the recording was made with reference to a default metronome, =
and 
> your notes will not align with the established beats.
> 
> Some sequencers have a feature for reclocking (although few, if any, call=
 it 
> "reclocking"). The best one is Performer, from Mark of the Unicorn. This =

> Macintosh program has a feature called Adjust Beats. What you do is view =
your 
> performance in "piano roll" style notation, in which the notes are laid o=
ut 
> horizontally on a grid. On the grid you can see vertical lines that show =
beats and 
> barlines. With the Adjust Beats feature turned on, you can drag the beat =
lines 
> to the notes to which they apply. This causes the notes to become realign=
ed on 
> the grid.
> 
> You might think that realigning on the grid will change the playback of t=
he 
> piece. It doesn't. The reason is that Performer computes a tempo map that=
 
> captures all of your rhythmic nuances.
> 
> Once you have reclocked your piece, you can proceed to the next issue.
> 
> (2) Hand Split
> Notation programs have to guess which hand played which note and which no=
tes 
> should be notated on which staff. If you are playing into a notation prog=
ram 
> in real time, you can specify a split point. Unfortunately, a complex pie=
ce 
> will not have a single split point that works for the entire piece.
> 
> As an alternative, you can edit your performance in a sequencer, again us=
ing 
> piano roll view. The technique is simple. Look at the layout of your note=
s, 
> and then use the mouse to select the notes that belong to either the righ=
t- or 
> left-hand part. Cut them and paste them into a separate track.
> 
> If you plan to save your Standard MIDI File as Type 0, be sure that you h=
ave 
> assigned each hand to separate MIDI channels. (The Disklavier, for exampl=
e, 
> typically assumes that the left hand has been assigned to channel 1 and r=
ight 
> hand to channel 2, so   you might want to make the same choice.)
> 
> If you save your SMF as Type 1, the hands can be assigned to the same or =
to 
> different channels. Either way, you can open the SMF in your notation pro=
gram, 
> and your notation software will be able to assign the separate hand track=
s to 
> different staves. From there, you can edit the look of the notation as 
> necessary.
> 
> (3) Quantization
> When your notation program does its transcription (of either a saved 
> performance or a real time performance), your software needs to know some=
 
information 
> about how short the shortest note values should be. For example, if you d=
id 
> not play anything shorter than an eighth note, you should ask your notati=
on 
> program to quantize your playing to the nearest eighth note. That way, yo=
u will 
> avoid seeing things like triple dotted 64th notes.
> 
> If you want, you can use your sequencer to quantize your playing before 
> sending the performance to your notation program.
> 
> NOTE: Quantization does no good if your file was not recorded to a metron=
ome 
> or has not been reclocked. If you quantize a non-clocked file, you will c=
ause 
> your notes to become aligned to beats that make no musical sense.
> 
> (4) Multiple Voices on a Staff
> This is a tough issue for a notation program. Let's say that your right h=
and 
> holds one note for the duration of a half note and simultaneously plays t=
wo 
> consecutive quarter notes. In proper notation, you should have two voices=
 on the 
> right-hand staff.
> 
> In this sort of situation, many programs will shorten your half note to m=
atch 
> the quarter note that was played at the same time. In this case, you will=
 
> have to edit the notation in your notation program. Other programs may tr=
y to 
> notate the two voices properly. If they are set up to do that, they may a=
lso 
> falsely notate two voices in other places because you slightly overlapped=
 two 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> notes in your recording. Either way, you will probably have some 
> post-transcription editing to do.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench

Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

2006-11-27 by Ken Gorman

Hi,

I recently downloaded some midi files to play on my
Disklavier. 

I used Sibelius to try to transcribe a saved MIDI file
into a score that I could then play.  The MIDI file I
used is here:

http://www.yukopiano.com/media/xmas/OHolyNight_ConcertHallVersion.mid

One of the difficulties Sibelius ran into was "hand
split".  The program had difficulty assigning the
notes to the correct hand.  Further, the program used
2 voices - one for the treble clef and one for the
bass clef.  Some note incorrectly assigned to the bass
clef were marked using additional ledger lines.  These
additional ledger lines ended up on top of the treble
clef obscuring the notes there.

If I manually re-assigned the notes to the correct
clef, the problem disappeared.

Other than manually going through the entire score and
correcting all these things, can anyone offer any
suggestions?  Are there any options in Sibelius that
may be incorrectly set?  

Thanks,

Ken



 
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Re: [disklavier] Transcribing a Disklavier Performance

2006-11-27 by Danny

From: "Ken Gorman" <KenGorman@...>

> Hi,
> 
> I recently downloaded some midi files to play on my
> Disklavier. 
> 
> I used Sibelius to try to transcribe a saved MIDI file
> into a score that I could then play.  The MIDI file I
> used is here:
> 
> http://www.yukopiano.com/media/xmas/OHolyNight_ConcertHallVersion.mid
> 
> One of the difficulties Sibelius ran into was "hand
> split".  The program had difficulty assigning the
> notes to the correct hand.  Further, the program used
> 2 voices - one for the treble clef and one for the
> bass clef.  Some note incorrectly assigned to the bass
> clef were marked using additional ledger lines.  These
> additional ledger lines ended up on top of the treble
> clef obscuring the notes there.
> 
> If I manually re-assigned the notes to the correct
> clef, the problem disappeared.
> 
> Other than manually going through the entire score and
> correcting all these things, can anyone offer any
> suggestions?  Are there any options in Sibelius that
> may be incorrectly set?  


Hi Ken,

You may want to join the Yahoo Groups Sibelius List Group:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/sibelius-list/

They are very willing to help with any questions regarding Sibelius...


Danny

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