Disklavier

I have been looking for an answer for a bit.  I believe what I want to 
do is not possible, but thought I would double check here as everyone 
has been so knowledgeable and helpful with my last question

With a disklavier including the old control wagon dkw10 is there a 
program that can scale velocity during playback from a PC.

When I play songs from the disk drive I can use the volume controls of 
the disklavier, but when I play via Midi these buttons are disabled.  
So I am wondering if there is playback software that can in real time 
scale the velocity so that I have volume control?

Thanks

Greetings sstapels,

If there is no other solution, I might be able to create one. If the
DKV will respond to MIDI volume controller messages, it would be
pretty easy to write a program that you could run on the PC at the
same time that you are playing files and that would send the messages
as you adjust a volume control slider. You can test this by inserting
a volume control into a midi file and playing it to see if the volume
can be controlled this way. If this does work, I can make a program
that will act as a volume control. I just wrote a program that has
most of what is needed in it already. All that needs to be added is
the ability to choose from the various MIDI devices on the system. The
program is a virtual wind chime so all of the wind chime stuff needs
to be removed to leave just a volume control.

Let me know if your DKV does respond to the volume controllers.
Attached is a MIDI file that goes from volume 127 at the beginning to
0 at the end. If your piano does respond to the controllers, it should
gradually get softer and softer until it is barely audible at the end.
If the attachment does not work, contact me privately so I can send it
to you.


Friday, December 9, 2005, 7:45:22 AM, you wrote:
> I have been looking for an answer for a bit.  I believe what I want to
> do is not possible, but thought I would double check here as everyone 
> has been so knowledgeable and helpful with my last question

> With a disklavier including the old control wagon dkw10 is there a 
> program that can scale velocity during playback from a PC.

> When I play songs from the disk drive I can use the volume controls of
> the disklavier, but when I play via Midi these buttons are disabled.  
> So I am wondering if there is playback software that can in real time 
> scale the velocity so that I have volume control?

> Thanks







> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...

> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 

> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
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> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
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>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links



>  




-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Spencer,

In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are two 
complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on 
hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all 
velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map 
velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that 
depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what is 
needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a file 
in / file out operation.

Bob Davis


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Spencer_Lists <lists@s...> wrote:
>
> Greetings sstapels,
> 
> If there is no other solution, I might be able to create one. If 
the
> DKV will respond to MIDI volume controller messages, it would be
> pretty easy to write a program that you could run on the PC at the
> same time that you are playing files and that would send the 
messages
> as you adjust a volume control slider. You can test this by 
inserting
> a volume control into a midi file and playing it to see if the 
volume
> can be controlled this way. If this does work, I can make a program
> that will act as a volume control. I just wrote a program that has
> most of what is needed in it already. All that needs to be added is
> the ability to choose from the various MIDI devices on the system. 
The
> program is a virtual wind chime so all of the wind chime stuff 
needs
> to be removed to leave just a volume control.
> 
> Let me know if your DKV does respond to the volume controllers.
> Attached is a MIDI file that goes from volume 127 at the beginning 
to
> 0 at the end. If your piano does respond to the controllers, it 
should
> gradually get softer and softer until it is barely audible at the 
end.
> If the attachment does not work, contact me privately so I can 
send it
> to you.
> 
> 
> Friday, December 9, 2005, 7:45:22 AM, you wrote:
> > I have been looking for an answer for a bit.  I believe what I 
want to
> > do is not possible, but thought I would double check here as 
everyone 
> > has been so knowledgeable and helpful with my last question
> 
> > With a disklavier including the old control wagon dkw10 is there 
a 
> > program that can scale velocity during playback from a PC.
> 
> > When I play songs from the disk drive I can use the volume 
controls of
> > the disklavier, but when I play via Midi these buttons are 
disabled.  
> > So I am wondering if there is playback software that can in real 
time 

> > scale the velocity so that I have volume control?
> 
> > Thanks
> 
>

Good evening, everyone.

I believe that the Mark IIXG (or possibly the Mark II) was the first  
Disklavier to respond to respond to MIDI volume (controller 7).

Regards,
PianoBench

On Dec 10, 2005, at 11:56 PM, bnbwv wrote:

> Spencer,
>
> In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are two
> complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on
> hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all
> velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map
> velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that
> depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what is
> needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a file
> in / file out operation.
>
> Bob Davis
>
>
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Spencer_Lists <lists@s...> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings sstapels,
>>
>> If there is no other solution, I might be able to create one. If
> the
>> DKV will respond to MIDI volume controller messages, it would be
>> pretty easy to write a program that you could run on the PC at the
>> same time that you are playing files and that would send the
> messages
>> as you adjust a volume control slider. You can test this by
> inserting
>> a volume control into a midi file and playing it to see if the
> volume
>> can be controlled this way. If this does work, I can make a program
>> that will act as a volume control. I just wrote a program that has
>> most of what is needed in it already. All that needs to be added is
>> the ability to choose from the various MIDI devices on the system.
> The
>> program is a virtual wind chime so all of the wind chime stuff
> needs
>> to be removed to leave just a volume control.
>>
>> Let me know if your DKV does respond to the volume controllers.
>> Attached is a MIDI file that goes from volume 127 at the beginning
> to
>> 0 at the end. If your piano does respond to the controllers, it
> should
>> gradually get softer and softer until it is barely audible at the
> end.
>> If the attachment does not work, contact me privately so I can
> send it
>> to you.
>>
>>
>> Friday, December 9, 2005, 7:45:22 AM, you wrote:
>>> I have been looking for an answer for a bit.  I believe what I
> want to
>>> do is not possible, but thought I would double check here as
> everyone
>>> has been so knowledgeable and helpful with my last question
>>
>>> With a disklavier including the old control wagon dkw10 is there
> a
>>> program that can scale velocity during playback from a PC.
>>
>>> When I play songs from the disk drive I can use the volume
> controls of
>>> the disklavier, but when I play via Midi these buttons are
> disabled.
>>> So I am wondering if there is playback software that can in real
> time
>>> scale the velocity so that I have volume control?
>>
>>> Thanks
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
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> MlLolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
> option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
> access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
> blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Greetings bnbwv,

Unfortunately a program that would scale velocities "on the fly" would
be a major effort for which I am unlikely to have the time in the
foreseeable future.

Does VanBasco's just send volume messages?


Saturday, December 10, 2005, 8:56:04 PM, you wrote:
> Spencer,

> In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are two 
> complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on 
> hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all 
> velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map 
> velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that 
> depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what is 
> needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a file 
> in / file out operation.

> Bob Davis


> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Spencer_Lists <lists@s...> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings sstapels,
>> 
>> If there is no other solution, I might be able to create one. If 
> the
>> DKV will respond to MIDI volume controller messages, it would be
>> pretty easy to write a program that you could run on the PC at the
>> same time that you are playing files and that would send the 
> messages
>> as you adjust a volume control slider. You can test this by 
> inserting
>> a volume control into a midi file and playing it to see if the 
> volume
>> can be controlled this way. If this does work, I can make a program
>> that will act as a volume control. I just wrote a program that has
>> most of what is needed in it already. All that needs to be added is
>> the ability to choose from the various MIDI devices on the system. 
> The
>> program is a virtual wind chime so all of the wind chime stuff 
> needs
>> to be removed to leave just a volume control.
>> 
>> Let me know if your DKV does respond to the volume controllers.
>> Attached is a MIDI file that goes from volume 127 at the beginning 
> to
>> 0 at the end. If your piano does respond to the controllers, it 
> should
>> gradually get softer and softer until it is barely audible at the 
> end.
>> If the attachment does not work, contact me privately so I can 
> send it
>> to you.
>> 
>> 
>> Friday, December 9, 2005, 7:45:22 AM, you wrote:
>> > I have been looking for an answer for a bit.  I believe what I 
> want to
>> > do is not possible, but thought I would double check here as 
> everyone 
>> > has been so knowledgeable and helpful with my last question
>> 
>> > With a disklavier including the old control wagon dkw10 is there 
> a 
>> > program that can scale velocity during playback from a PC.
>> 
>> > When I play songs from the disk drive I can use the volume 
> controls of
>> > the disklavier, but when I play via Midi these buttons are 
> disabled.  
>> > So I am wondering if there is playback software that can in real 
> time 
>> > scale the velocity so that I have volume control?
>> 
>> > Thanks
>> 
>> 







> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...

> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com 

> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access
> to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@... 

> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links



>  





-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

It seems like the algorithm being used is wrong.  If a note is already
soft, it should not be reduced to zero.  It should be reduced less the
further it is from the desired overall volume, until turning down the
volume doesn't change it at all.  Think of a normal distribution, with
the desired volume being right at the middle of the bell curve. 
Turning down the volume should bring notes closer to the center of the
bell curve instead of just subtracting uniformly from their
velocities.

On 12/10/05, bnbwv <davis2002@citlink.net> wrote:
> In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are two
> complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on
> hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all
> velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map
> velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that
> depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what is
> needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a file
> in / file out operation.

Thanks

So if I upgraded to the DSR1 then it would recognied the volume sent 
from from a MIDI player without having to scale the velocity of the 
notes in the MIDI?

Scott


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "George F. Litterst" 
<PianoBench@a...> wrote:
>
> Good evening, everyone.
> 
> I believe that the Mark IIXG (or possibly the Mark II) was the 
first  
> Disklavier to respond to respond to MIDI volume (controller 7).
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> On Dec 10, 2005, at 11:56 PM, bnbwv wrote:
> 
> > Spencer,
> >
> > In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are 
two
> > complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on
> > hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all
> > velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map
> > velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that
> > depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what 
is
> > needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a 
file
> > in / file out operation.
> >
> > Bob Davis
> >
> >
> > --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Spencer_Lists <lists@s...> 
wrote:
> >>
> >> Greetings sstapels,
> >>
> >> If there is no other solution, I might be able to create one. If
> > the
> >> DKV will respond to MIDI volume controller messages, it would be
> >> pretty easy to write a program that you could run on the PC at 
the
> >> same time that you are playing files and that would send the
> > messages
> >> as you adjust a volume control slider. You can test this by
> > inserting
> >> a volume control into a midi file and playing it to see if the
> > volume
> >> can be controlled this way. If this does work, I can make a 
program
> >> that will act as a volume control. I just wrote a program that 
has
> >> most of what is needed in it already. All that needs to be added 
is
> >> the ability to choose from the various MIDI devices on the 
system.
> > The
> >> program is a virtual wind chime so all of the wind chime stuff
> > needs
> >> to be removed to leave just a volume control.
> >>
> >> Let me know if your DKV does respond to the volume controllers.
> >> Attached is a MIDI file that goes from volume 127 at the 
beginning
> > to
> >> 0 at the end. If your piano does respond to the controllers, it
> > should
> >> gradually get softer and softer until it is barely audible at the
> > end.
> >> If the attachment does not work, contact me privately so I can
> > send it
> >> to you.
> >>
> >>
> >> Friday, December 9, 2005, 7:45:22 AM, you wrote:
> >>> I have been looking for an answer for a bit.  I believe what I
> > want to
> >>> do is not possible, but thought I would double check here as
> > everyone
> >>> has been so knowledgeable and helpful with my last question
> >>
> >>> With a disklavier including the old control wagon dkw10 is there
> > a
> >>> program that can scale velocity during playback from a PC.
> >>
> >>> When I play songs from the disk drive I can use the volume
> > controls of
> >>> the disklavier, but when I play via Midi these buttons are
> > disabled.
> >>> So I am wondering if there is playback software that can in real
> > time
> >>> scale the velocity so that I have volume control?
> >>
> >>> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------
- 
> > ~-->
> > <FONT COLOR="#000099">Life without art & music? Keep the arts 
alive  
> > today at Network for Good!
> > </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/rG9bLB/dnQLAA/n1hLAA/ 
> > MlLolB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
-- 
> > ~->
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> > disklavier@Y...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> > moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@Y...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> > Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
> > contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites 
among  
> > many other things, The url is:
> > http://MuncyFamily.com
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
> > much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
> > option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining 
your  
> > access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send 
a  

> > blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@e... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

I have an older Disklavier, model HQ100, which I drive from a PC 
using WinAmp via a USB MIDI adaptor and the MIDI input port.  The 
only volume control is the knob that adjusts the distance of the 
hammers from the strings, but that has no effect on the force with 
which the keys are struck, which depends solely on the MIDI velocity 
value.

I would like to have a program to adjust MIDI velocity levels "on the 
fly", and ideally one that would work in conjuction with WinAmp (but 
that is not a requirement as long as there would be some means to 
queue files in a playlist).  I sat at dinner last night thinking of 
the velocity adjustment algorithm to use.  On arriving home, I 
decided to check this user group to see if anyone had already solved 
this problem, and I found your timely message thread.  It seems the 
problem is not yet solved, but there are others out there who have 
similar requirements.

I can contribute the velocity adjustment algorithm, if someone else 
who understands MIDI file structure can do the programming.  I have 
written a small Excel spreadsheet with interactive slider bar inputs 
and a velocity distribution graph so that you can see the impact of 
the variables on the velocity value modifications.  (I don't see how 
I can attach the file here, but I will try to post it in the "all new 
uploads go here" folder.  If anyone wants it, write to me outside the 
group forum and I will send it.)

Briefly, there are three variables:  

1) Absolute Maximum Velocity is the value that under no circumstances 
can be exceeded.  This is the safety value so that high velocity 
values do not cause damage to the piano.  Maximum MIDI velocity is 
127, however values of 100 to 110 have been suggested as 
maximum "safe" levels.  MIDI velocities above this maximum will be 
truncated to this value.

2) Target Minimum Velocity is the lower threshhold for sounding the 
piano, or for setting a minimum volume higher if so desired.  All 
MIDI velocities below this level will be raised to this level, unless 
volume control is set lower.

3)  Volume Control is a percentage of original velocity, within the 
bounds set by Absolute Maximum Velocity and Target Minimum Velocity.  
If Volume may be adjusted below the Target Minimum Velocity if 
desired to turn volume down completely.  Volume profile will be 
completely flat at this point.

The algorithm (in Excel format) is: 
=MIN(AbsMax,MAX(TargetMin,(TargetMax-TargetMin)/(OrigMax-TargetMin)*
(OrigVel-TargetMin)+TargetMin))

Where: 
AbsMax = Absolute Maximum Velocity (safety limit)
TargetMin = Target Minimum Velocity (lower threshhold)
TargetMax = Volume Control % times 127 (maximum MIDI velocity value)
OrigMax = 127 (maximum MIDI velocity value)
OrigVel = Input velocity value from MIDI file (the value to be 
modified).

This will make more sense if you view the file, play with the 
variable slider bars, and see from the graph how the algorithm works.

Future enhancements could include a curved profile (this one is 
linear), different profiles or settings for various ranges (treble, 
mid-level, bass), etc, but I think the algorithm I have proposed will 
be more than satisfactory for 99.44% of users.

Is there anyone in the group that could program this?    

John Sutton
China


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carl Youngblood <carl@y...> wrote:
>
> It seems like the algorithm being used is wrong.  If a note is 
already
> soft, it should not be reduced to zero.  It should be reduced less 
the
> further it is from the desired overall volume, until turning down 
the
> volume doesn't change it at all.  Think of a normal distribution, 
with
> the desired volume being right at the middle of the bell curve. 
> Turning down the volume should bring notes closer to the center of 
the
> bell curve instead of just subtracting uniformly from their
> velocities.
> 
> On 12/10/05, bnbwv <davis2002@c...> wrote:
> > In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are 
two
> > complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on
> > hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all
> > velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map
> > velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that
> > depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what 
is
> > needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a 
file
> > in / file out operation.
>

Greetings whatsay2that,

If your DKV will respond to MIDI volume messages then the problem is
much simpler. If it will not then it is not an easy job. You need to
either write a MIDI file player with dynamic velocity control or write
an application that will reroute the MIDI messages and modify them on
the fly. Either is a major programming effort, not something I would
bother with unless there were a considerable market for it which there
is not.

I have a similar problem with my older PianoDisc which will not
respond to MIDI volume messages so I have to preprocess all of the
files.

Monday, January 23, 2006, 9:46:34 PM, you wrote:
> I have an older Disklavier, model HQ100, which I drive from a PC 
> using WinAmp via a USB MIDI adaptor and the MIDI input port.  The 
> only volume control is the knob that adjusts the distance of the 
> hammers from the strings, but that has no effect on the force with 
> which the keys are struck, which depends solely on the MIDI velocity 
> value.



-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

I have used a velocity converter from www.midisolutions.com quite successfully for a customer who wanted to emulate the touch curve of 
his synth on his Disklavier. (don't ask me why)

It's a neat little box which can be easily programmed via a PC, using their own utility.

Adrian Thomas
Milton Keynes
UK

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 05:46 , whatsay2that <mail.jsutton@...> sent:

>I have an older Disklavier, model HQ100, which I drive from a PC 
>using WinAmp via a USB MIDI adaptor and the MIDI input port.  The 
>only volume control is the knob that adjusts the distance of the 
>hammers from the strings, but that has no effect on the force with 
>which the keys are struck, which depends solely on the MIDI velocity 
>value.
>
>I would like to have a program to adjust MIDI velocity levels "on the 
>fly", and ideally one that would work in conjuction with WinAmp (but 
>that is not a requirement as long as there would be some means to 
>queue files in a playlist).  I sat at dinner last night thinking of 
>the velocity adjustment algorithm to use.  On arriving home, I 
>decided to check this user group to see if anyone had already solved 
>this problem, and I found your timely message thread.  It seems the 
>problem is not yet solved, but there are others out there who have 
>similar requirements.
>
>I can contribute the velocity adjustment algorithm, if someone else 
>who understands MIDI file structure can do the programming.  I have 
>written a small Excel spreadsheet with interactive slider bar inputs 
>and a velocity distribution graph so that you can see the impact of 
>the variables on the velocity value modifications.  (I don't see how 
>I can attach the file here, but I will try to post it in the "all new 
>uploads go here" folder.  If anyone wants it, write to me outside the 
>group forum and I will send it.)
>
>Briefly, there are three variables:  
>
>1) Absolute Maximum Velocity is the value that under no circumstances 
>can be exceeded.  This is the safety value so that high velocity 
>values do not cause damage to the piano.  Maximum MIDI velocity is 
>127, however values of 100 to 110 have been suggested as 
>maximum "safe" levels.  MIDI velocities above this maximum will be 
>truncated to this value.
>
>2) Target Minimum Velocity is the lower threshhold for sounding the 
>piano, or for setting a minimum volume higher if so desired.  All 
>MIDI velocities below this level will be raised to this level, unless 
>volume control is set lower.
>
>3)  Volume Control is a percentage of original velocity, within the 
>bounds set by Absolute Maximum Velocity and Target Minimum Velocity.  
>If Volume may be adjusted below the Target Minimum Velocity if 
>desired to turn volume down completely.  Volume profile will be 
>completely flat at this point.
>
>The algorithm (in Excel format) is: 
>=MIN(AbsMax,MAX(TargetMin,(TargetMax-TargetMin)/(OrigMax-TargetMin)*
>(OrigVel-TargetMin)+TargetMin))
>
>Where: 
>AbsMax = Absolute Maximum Velocity (safety limit)
>TargetMin = Target Minimum Velocity (lower threshhold)
>TargetMax = Volume Control % times 127 (maximum MIDI velocity value)
>OrigMax = 127 (maximum MIDI velocity value)
>OrigVel = Input velocity value from MIDI file (the value to be 
>modified).
>
>This will make more sense if you view the file, play with the 
>variable slider bars, and see from the graph how the algorithm works.
>
>Future enhancements could include a curved profile (this one is 
>linear), different profiles or settings for various ranges (treble, 
>mid-level, bass), etc, but I think the algorithm I have proposed will 
>be more than satisfactory for 99.44% of users.
>
>Is there anyone in the group that could program this?    
>
>John Sutton
>China
>
>
>--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carl Youngblood  wrote:
>>
>> It seems like the algorithm being used is wrong.  If a note is 
>already
>> soft, it should not be reduced to zero.  It should be reduced less 
>the
>> further it is from the desired overall volume, until turning down 
>the
>> volume doesn't change it at all.  Think of a normal distribution, 
>with
>> the desired volume being right at the middle of the bell curve. 
>> Turning down the volume should bring notes closer to the center of 
>the
>> bell curve instead of just subtracting uniformly from their
>> velocities.
>> 
>> On 12/10/05, bnbwv  wrote:
>> > In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are 
>two
>> > complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on
>> > hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all
>> > velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map
>> > velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that
>> > depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what 
>is
>> > needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a 
>file
>> > in / file out operation.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
>disklavier-owner@...
>
>To reach our group's web site go to:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
>Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many 
other things, The url is:
>http://MuncyFamily.com 
>
>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
>disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
>
>Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/disklavier/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>    disklavier-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
>
>



---- Message sent via freenetname webmail - http://www.freenetname.co.uk/ Up to 8Mb broadband now from just \ufffd9.99 a month

Greetings Adrian,

Wow, that is one of the neatest things I have seen in years. I have
written post processors to change velocity curves in midi files and
also a program to modify the velocities on a note by note basis as a
sort of "equalizer". However, none of this can be done on the fly. If
I am ordering one of these as soon as I know I can get it shipped
without problems. I have had real problems with deliveries from
Canada. I don't think that the unit can be used to modify velocity
differently on different notes but that is something that I would want
to do only once to match the response of my piano. Being able to
choose a variety of velocity curves on the fly sounds too good to be
true. I can't wait.


Tuesday, January 24, 2006, 1:43:36 AM, you wrote:
> I have used a velocity converter from www.midisolutions.com quite
> successfully for a customer who wanted to emulate the touch curve of 
> his synth on his Disklavier. (don't ask me why)

> It's a neat little box which can be easily programmed via a PC, using their own utility.

> Adrian Thomas
> Milton Keynes
> UK


-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Good evening, everyone.

John, I think that the best advice that you have received is to use a  
program that lets you adjust the volume message (controller 7) at the  
beginning of the piano tracks IF your Disklavier supports this.

Unfortunately, your model of Disklavier was not sold in the US, so I  
don't have any specifications on it. In the US, all Disklaviers from  
the Mark IIXG onward respond to controller 7 messages. You might want  
to check the MIDI implementation chart that came with your Disklavier.

Although MIDI Solutions makes nice little products (many of which I  
own), I do not believe that the Velocity Converter that was  
recommended to you is the right product for this application. You  
could, of course, program it to convert the velocities that are sent  
from a particular MIDI file. However, the velocity profile that you  
program for one particular MIDI file will not necessarily match the  
need of your other MIDI files.

I should mention that my software product, Home Concert Xtreme, does  
scale velocities when you manipulate the volume sliders in our mixer.  
However, I am not necessarily recommending this product for this  
purpose. I am simply mentioning it as a rare example of a software  
program that scales velocities with an on-screen slider.

Home Concert Xtreme is a score-following program. Its purpose is to  
let you:

--load a Standard MIDI file
--choose the tracks that you intend to play and show them in notation  
on the screen
--determine your location, tempo, and dynamics as you play
--musically coordinate the accompaniment tracks in real time as you  
play and "turn your pages" intelligently.

Regards,
PianoBench

www.timewarptech.com

On Jan 24, 2006, at 12:46 AM, whatsay2that wrote:

> I have an older Disklavier, model HQ100, which I drive from a PC
> using WinAmp via a USB MIDI adaptor and the MIDI input port.  The
> only volume control is the knob that adjusts the distance of the
> hammers from the strings, but that has no effect on the force with
> which the keys are struck, which depends solely on the MIDI velocity
> value.
>
> I would like to have a program to adjust MIDI velocity levels "on the
> fly", and ideally one that would work in conjuction with WinAmp (but
> that is not a requirement as long as there would be some means to
> queue files in a playlist).  I sat at dinner last night thinking of
> the velocity adjustment algorithm to use.  On arriving home, I
> decided to check this user group to see if anyone had already solved
> this problem, and I found your timely message thread.  It seems the
> problem is not yet solved, but there are others out there who have
> similar requirements.
>
> I can contribute the velocity adjustment algorithm, if someone else
> who understands MIDI file structure can do the programming.  I have
> written a small Excel spreadsheet with interactive slider bar inputs
> and a velocity distribution graph so that you can see the impact of
> the variables on the velocity value modifications.  (I don't see how
> I can attach the file here, but I will try to post it in the "all new
> uploads go here" folder.  If anyone wants it, write to me outside the
> group forum and I will send it.)
>
> Briefly, there are three variables:
>
> 1) Absolute Maximum Velocity is the value that under no circumstances
> can be exceeded.  This is the safety value so that high velocity
> values do not cause damage to the piano.  Maximum MIDI velocity is
> 127, however values of 100 to 110 have been suggested as
> maximum "safe" levels.  MIDI velocities above this maximum will be
> truncated to this value.
>
> 2) Target Minimum Velocity is the lower threshhold for sounding the
> piano, or for setting a minimum volume higher if so desired.  All
> MIDI velocities below this level will be raised to this level, unless
> volume control is set lower.
>
> 3)  Volume Control is a percentage of original velocity, within the
> bounds set by Absolute Maximum Velocity and Target Minimum Velocity.
> If Volume may be adjusted below the Target Minimum Velocity if
> desired to turn volume down completely.  Volume profile will be
> completely flat at this point.
>
> The algorithm (in Excel format) is:
> =MIN(AbsMax,MAX(TargetMin,(TargetMax-TargetMin)/(OrigMax-TargetMin)*
> (OrigVel-TargetMin)+TargetMin))
>
> Where:
> AbsMax = Absolute Maximum Velocity (safety limit)
> TargetMin = Target Minimum Velocity (lower threshhold)
> TargetMax = Volume Control % times 127 (maximum MIDI velocity value)
> OrigMax = 127 (maximum MIDI velocity value)
> OrigVel = Input velocity value from MIDI file (the value to be
> modified).
>
> This will make more sense if you view the file, play with the
> variable slider bars, and see from the graph how the algorithm works.
>
> Future enhancements could include a curved profile (this one is
> linear), different profiles or settings for various ranges (treble,
> mid-level, bass), etc, but I think the algorithm I have proposed will
> be more than satisfactory for 99.44% of users.
>
> Is there anyone in the group that could program this?
>
> John Sutton
> China
>
>
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carl Youngblood <carl@y...> wrote:
>>
>> It seems like the algorithm being used is wrong.  If a note is
> already
>> soft, it should not be reduced to zero.  It should be reduced less
> the
>> further it is from the desired overall volume, until turning down
> the
>> volume doesn't change it at all.  Think of a normal distribution,
> with
>> the desired volume being right at the middle of the bell curve.
>> Turning down the volume should bring notes closer to the center of
> the
>> bell curve instead of just subtracting uniformly from their
>> velocities.
>>
>> On 12/10/05, bnbwv <davis2002@c...> wrote:
>>> In trying to reduce the volume on my old wagon grand, there are
> two
>>> complications.  First, the volume controller (7) has no effect on
>>> hammer velocity (volume).  Second, if you just scale down all
>>> velocities, the softer notes won't sound at all.  You need to map
>>> velocities into a range from a low of around 25 to a high that
>>> depends on the 'volume' you desire.  Your MIDIMOD program is what
> is
>>> needed, with the mapping being done on the fly rather than as a
> file
>>> in / file out operation.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:    
> disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and  
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It  
> contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among  
> many other things, The url is:
> http://MuncyFamily.com
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too  
> much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery  
> option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your  
> access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a  
> blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Greetings George,

I just ordered one of the midi solutions velocity controller and have
high hopes for it. According to the user manual, there are 40 preset
velocity curves that can be assigned to a controller number. I can
write a simple application that will send controller messages while
playing a file so you could switch from one preset to another. There
is also the ability to load a custom velocity curve which can be
easily constructed with the tool they provide. You can save any number
of these as MIDI files and send them to the device.

Sure, there is not going to be a single curve that fits all songs but
it sounds like it will be easy to change them either by sending MIDI
files or by writing the suitable application to send control messages.
If consistency is wanted, I believe that GNMIDI will adjust all MIDI
files in a folder to a common average velocity level.

If anyone has a DKV or other instrument that will respond to volume
messages, I can easily write an application with a slider to send
volume messages. As long as concurrent applications can access a MIDI
port simultaneously (seems to be possible with some windows versions
and not with others) this would be an easy solution. Unfortunately, my
PD does not respond to volume messages.

I have a program that contains all the code to send the messages with
a graphic slider control and will edit out all of the extraneous
material (it is currently a Virtual Windchime program) if anyone is
interested. I will probably adapt the same program to send controller
messages for controlling the Velocity Controller. If there is more
interest than my own, I could make this a general purpose program to
send volume or controller messages.

 --  Best
regards, Spencer_Lists Chase mailto:lists@... 67550
Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only. Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm (707) 984-8356

Good morning, everyone.

Spencer, it sounds like you have an interesting plan for using the  
Velocity Converter. MIDI Solutions makes nice products. It will be  
interesting to see how well it can be adapted.

As for multiple MIDI applications running concurrently on a Windows  
computer: My understanding is that this is a function of the MIDI  
driver for your MIDI interface. For example, the various Yamaha USB  
MIDI interfaces and Yamaha keyboards with built-in USB interfaces  
only support just one MIDI application at a time. Edirol interfaces  
and Roland keyboards with built-in USB interfaces support multiple  
applications. I am not certain about other brands.

On the Macintosh side, OS X itself supports the use of the available  
MIDI ports by multiple applications.

Regards,
PianoBench

On Jan 25, 2006, at 1:31 AM, Spencer_Lists wrote:

> Greetings George,
>
> I just ordered one of the midi solutions velocity controller and have
> high hopes for it. According to the user manual, there are 40 preset
> velocity curves that can be assigned to a controller number. I can
> write a simple application that will send controller messages while
> playing a file so you could switch from one preset to another. There
> is also the ability to load a custom velocity curve which can be
> easily constructed with the tool they provide. You can save any number
> of these as MIDI files and send them to the device.
>
> Sure, there is not going to be a single curve that fits all songs but
> it sounds like it will be easy to change them either by sending MIDI
> files or by writing the suitable application to send control messages.
> If consistency is wanted, I believe that GNMIDI will adjust all MIDI
> files in a folder to a common average velocity level.
>
> If anyone has a DKV or other instrument that will respond to volume
> messages, I can easily write an application with a slider to send
> volume messages. As long as concurrent applications can access a MIDI
> port simultaneously (seems to be possible with some windows versions
> and not with others) this would be an easy solution. Unfortunately, my
> PD does not respond to volume messages.
>
> I have a program that contains all the code to send the messages with
> a graphic slider control and will edit out all of the extraneous
> material (it is currently a Virtual Windchime program) if anyone is
> interested. I will probably adapt the same program to send controller
> messages for controlling the Velocity Controller. If there is more
> interest than my own, I could make this a general purpose program to
> send volume or controller messages.
>
>  --  Best
> regards, Spencer_Lists Chase mailto:lists@... 67550
> Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542    Postal service only.
> Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only. Spencer@...
> http://www.spencerserolls.com
> http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm (707) 984-8356
>
>

Hello all,

On recommendations, I wrote to both MIDI Solutions and to PG Music.  
I have heard back from MIDI Solutions today, and paste their reply in 
below.  According to them, Spencer may have purchased the wrong 
product.  Their Velocity Converter will not make adjustments on the 
fly, since it works by having the computer send the profile via a 
separate MIDI file.  Rather, they recommend their Event Processor 
Plus.  I have not yet downloaded their file.  I'll be away for a 
couple of weeks, but if anyone else wants to try it and post their 
results, I'll await the news on my return.

Here is my query to MIDI Solutions and their reply:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Sutton" <mail.jsutton@...>
To: <info@midisolutions.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:08 AM
Subject: Volume Control of MIDI During Playback

Re: Volume Control of Midi during playbackDear MIDI Solutions,

Please see the e-mail thread below from the Yamaha Disklavier User's 
Group in Yahoo Groups.  Your velocity converter has been suggested as 
a solution to my query.  I have reviewed your website information, 
and it appears to be so.  The only potential problem I see is that 
the program is uploaded to the velocity converter as a MIDI file 
itself.  If that is the case, then I doubt that an adjustment could 
be made while the piano is playing a MIDI file from the computer.  
Ideally, I would like a velocity (volume) control that I can adjust 
as the file is playing.

Can it be used to modify MIDI velocities "on the fly", and can I set 
up some sort of volume control knob (either physical or simulated in 
the PC) to modify it as the piano is playing?

Attached for your reference, if you like, is the simple Excel 
spreadsheet referred to below that illustrates my desired intent.

I will appreciate your comments.

Best regards,
John Sutton
Shenzhen, China

-----Original Message-----
From: John Fast, MIDI Solutions Inc. [mailto:john@...]
Sent: 25 January 2006 17:01
To: John Sutton
Subject: Re: Volume Control of MIDI During Playback

Hi John,

With the Velocity Converter you would need to reprogram it in order to
change curves, the MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus might be better
suited to this application.

The Event Processor Plus can scale MIDI data values (including 
velocities), it can also be programmed to turn on/off its settings in 
response to various MIDI events. In your application what could be 
done is to create a number of settings with different velocity 
scalings, and then create additonal settings that turn on/off the 
first settings whenever say a MIDI Control Change value is within a 
certain range. This wouldn't give you a smooth adjustment, however 
unlike the Velocity Converter it would allow you to change curves on-
the-fly.

The easiest way to see how this is possible with the Event Processor 
Plus is to download the Programming Tools software: 
www.midisolutions.com/ptepp.htm

As a simplified example, you could start off with the following:
Setting #1: Map all Note-on events of velocities in the range 1 to
TargetMin -> Note-on events of velocity TargetMin.
Then add the following settings in groups of two:
Setting #2: When CC#1 is in the range 0 - 10, turn Setting #3 ON, 
else turn
Ssetting #3 OFF
Setting #3: Map all Note-on events of velocities in the range 
TargetMin+1 to
127 -> Note-on events of velocity scaled to outgoing range 
TargetMin+1 to
TargetMax.
etc...

I haven't included AbsMax in the above example, but by playing with 
the Event Processor Plus Programming Tools software you may be able 
to find a way to work all of the parameters into the functionality of 
the unit or at least get very close to what you are looking to 
achieve.

Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions about 
the product.

Best regards,
John Fast, MIDI Solutions Inc.
www.midisolutions.com


==========================================================

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "George F. Litterst" 
<PianoBench@a...> wrote:
>
> Good morning, everyone.
> 
> Spencer, it sounds like you have an interesting plan for using the  
> Velocity Converter. MIDI Solutions makes nice products. It will be  
> interesting to see how well it can be adapted.
> 
> As for multiple MIDI applications running concurrently on a 
Windows  
> computer: My understanding is that this is a function of the MIDI  
> driver for your MIDI interface. For example, the various Yamaha 
USB  
> MIDI interfaces and Yamaha keyboards with built-in USB interfaces  
> only support just one MIDI application at a time. Edirol 
interfaces  
> and Roland keyboards with built-in USB interfaces support multiple  
> applications. I am not certain about other brands.
> 
> On the Macintosh side, OS X itself supports the use of the 
available  
> MIDI ports by multiple applications.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench
> 
> On Jan 25, 2006, at 1:31 AM, Spencer_Lists wrote:
> 
> > Greetings George,
> >
> > I just ordered one of the midi solutions velocity controller and 
have
> > high hopes for it. According to the user manual, there are 40 
preset
> > velocity curves that can be assigned to a controller number. I can
> > write a simple application that will send controller messages 
while
> > playing a file so you could switch from one preset to another. 
There
> > is also the ability to load a custom velocity curve which can be
> > easily constructed with the tool they provide. You can save any 
number
> > of these as MIDI files and send them to the device.
> >
> > Sure, there is not going to be a single curve that fits all songs 
but
> > it sounds like it will be easy to change them either by sending 
MIDI
> > files or by writing the suitable application to send control 
messages.
> > If consistency is wanted, I believe that GNMIDI will adjust all 
MIDI
> > files in a folder to a common average velocity level.
> >
> > If anyone has a DKV or other instrument that will respond to 
volume
> > messages, I can easily write an application with a slider to send
> > volume messages. As long as concurrent applications can access a 
MIDI
> > port simultaneously (seems to be possible with some windows 
versions
> > and not with others) this would be an easy solution. 
Unfortunately, my
> > PD does not respond to volume messages.
> >
> > I have a program that contains all the code to send the messages 
with
> > a graphic slider control and will edit out all of the extraneous
> > material (it is currently a Virtual Windchime program) if anyone 
is
> > interested. I will probably adapt the same program to send 
controller
> > messages for controlling the Velocity Controller. If there is more
> > interest than my own, I could make this a general purpose program 
to

> > send volume or controller messages.
> >
> >  --  Best
> > regards, Spencer_Lists Chase mailto:lists@s... 67550
> > Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542    Postal service only.
> > Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only. Spencer@s...
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com
> > http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm (707) 984-8356
> >
> >
>

Greetings whatsay2that,

By "on the fly" I was referring to the modification to the events
realtime as opposed to having to be done by processing the MIDI file
as I now do. I am not concerned with changing the volume during play.
In my particular setup, I am able to run multiple MIDI applications
accessing the same device so I could pause on player and send the
necessary MIDI file if I did want to change the curve during a song.
My main interest is in being able to make custom curves and the midi
solutions software looks ideal for this. Also, their support has been
excellent and they even have a way to buy their products within the US
without the long shipping delays that often happen due to Canadian /
US customs.


Wednesday, January 25, 2006, 4:51:10 AM, you wrote:
> Hello all,

> On recommendations, I wrote to both MIDI Solutions and to PG Music.  
> I have heard back from MIDI Solutions today, and paste their reply in 
> below.  According to them, Spencer may have purchased the wrong 
> product.  Their Velocity Converter will not make adjustments on the 
> fly, since it works by having the computer send the profile via a 
> separate MIDI file.  Rather, they recommend their Event Processor 
> Plus.  I have not yet downloaded their file.  I'll be away for a 
> couple of weeks, but if anyone else wants to try it and post their 
> results, I'll await the news on my return.


-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Greetings George,

Thanks for the clarification on the multiple application issue. I
never was quite sure why it worked on some machines and not others. I
have always liked Roland products (with one notable exception)so I
guess I was lucky to pick the right one most of the time.


Wednesday, January 25, 2006, 3:29:17 AM, you wrote:
> Good morning, everyone.

> Spencer, it sounds like you have an interesting plan for using the  
> Velocity Converter. MIDI Solutions makes nice products. It will be  
> interesting to see how well it can be adapted.

> As for multiple MIDI applications running concurrently on a Windows  
> computer: My understanding is that this is a function of the MIDI  
> driver for your MIDI interface. For example, the various Yamaha USB  
> MIDI interfaces and Yamaha keyboards with built-in USB interfaces  
> only support just one MIDI application at a time. Edirol interfaces  
> and Roland keyboards with built-in USB interfaces support multiple  
> applications. I am not certain about other brands.

> On the Macintosh side, OS X itself supports the use of the available  
> MIDI ports by multiple applications.

> Regards,
> PianoBench

> On Jan 25, 2006, at 1:31 AM, Spencer_Lists wrote:


-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

I have now heard back from PG Music regarding the capability of their 
software to make MIDI velocity adjustments for volume control.  Their 
reply is "No, unfortunately PowerTracks Pro Audio does not have this 
capability.  You can certainly adjust MIDI note velocities, but not "on 
the fly" while the song is playing."

So that's one less avenue open to us.

Regards,
John Sutton
China

I was wondering.
I know there are dome software enthusiasts that may help us in this 
matter.

There is a vintage utility named MIDI YOKE, what this does is 
basically connect the MIDI output of one program to the midi input of 
another program inside the same computer (no additional hardware 
needed) (sorry, only for windows, not for Mac).

Using MIDI YOKE we can use any sequencer software PT, Cakewalk, etc. 
play a the file, outputting it to the input of an on the fly software 
filter (here is the project) and the output of the filter to the 
hardware MIDI interface.

There is another plus, this way we can use the on the fly filter with 
any MIDI interface (serial to host, MPU, joystick to MIDI, USB to 
serial or USB to MIDI)

So, here is ant interesting software project


You can get more info abut MIDI YKE in (I am not related to them)

http://www.midiox.com/

Just be sure to get into the MIDI YOKE page.

(I am not familiar with MIDI-OX, so I don't know it this is the on the 
fly filter we need)

--- In disklavier@...m, "whatsay2that" <mail.jsutton@g...> 
wrote:
>
> I have now heard back from PG Music regarding the capability of 
their 
> software to make MIDI velocity adjustments for volume control.  
Their 
> reply is "No, unfortunately PowerTracks Pro Audio does not have this 
> capability.  You can certainly adjust MIDI note velocities, but 
not "on 

> the fly" while the song is playing."
> 
> So that's one less avenue open to us.
> 
> Regards,
> John Sutton
> China
>

On Jan 26, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Jorge Fernandez wrote:

> Using MIDI YOKE we can use any sequencer software PT, Cakewalk, etc.
> play a the file, outputting it to the input of an on the fly software
> filter (here is the project) and the output of the filter to the
> hardware MIDI interface.


Just for the record (since it seems this thread is about solving this  
problem for Windows machines) there is a wonderful utility for  
Macintosh OS X that I use to adjust velocity on the fly (and much  
more). It operates pretty much the way Jorge is describing. It is  
called MidiPipe and can be found here:

http://homepage.mac.com/nicowald/SubtleSoft/

Using the built in IAC bus (Inter-Application Communication bus) in  
OS X, I route the output of my midi player to MidiPipe and then on to  
the actual hardware interface connected to my piano.

The tool within MidiPipe used to adjust the velocities, has sliders  
for scaling all velocities (0 - 200%) and shifting all velocities  
(+-127). One can also set a range with a min slider and a max slider  
(0 - 127) and then use push buttons to choose whether to clip, scale,  
or filter velocity values to that range.

MidiPipe currently has some 18 different tools for modifying a midi  
stream including a number of filters and message converters. It also  
has a simple midi player built in and a graphical piano keyboard that  
can be used to generate notes for testing purposes. And all this for  
FREE (although donations to the developer are gratefully accepted).

If you use midi on a Mac, this is a must have utility.

...matthew...

Hi,

With regard to the requirement for different velocity curves for different MIDI files, the MIDI Solutions box uses a basic SYSEX message to progam the required curve. Once youve found a curve that works, you could simply paste it into the relevant song 
file.

Adrian Thomas
Milton Keynes
UK

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:29 , George F. Litterst <PianoBench@...> sent:

>Good evening, everyone.
>
>Although MIDI Solutions makes nice little products (many of which I  
>own), I do not believe that the Velocity Converter that was  
>recommended to you is the right product for this application. You  
>could, of course, program it to convert the velocities that are sent  
>from a particular MIDI file. However, the velocity profile that you  
>program for one particular MIDI file will not necessarily match the  
>need of your other MIDI files.
>
>

---- Message sent via freenetname webmail - http://www.freenetname.co.uk/ Up to 8Mb broadband now from just \ufffd9.99 a month

Hi,

If you have a sequencing program, you could experiment with the preset curves, or create your own curve with the software for the converter (I think you need to download it - for free - from their website). Using the sequencer, you can combine the 
converter information with your song file. Then you can re-record the combined song & converter information through the converter to get a file which has all the velocity values adjusted. The resulting file can then be played straight from the Disklavier.

Adrian Thomas
Milton Keynes
UK

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 22:31 , Spencer_Lists <lists@...> sent:

>Greetings George,
>
>I just ordered one of the midi solutions velocity controller and have
>high hopes for it. According to the user manual, there are 40 preset
>velocity curves that can be assigned to a controller number. I can
>write a simple application that will send controller messages while
>playing a file so you could switch from one preset to another. There
>is also the ability to load a custom velocity curve which can be
>easily constructed with the tool they provide. You can save any number
>of these as MIDI files and send them to the device.
>
>Sure, there is not going to be a single curve that fits all songs but
>it sounds like it will be easy to change them either by sending MIDI
>files or by writing the suitable application to send control messages.
>If consistency is wanted, I believe that GNMIDI will adjust all MIDI
>files in a folder to a common average velocity level.
>
>If anyone has a DKV or other instrument that will respond to volume
>messages, I can easily write an application with a slider to send
>volume messages. As long as concurrent applications can access a MIDI
>port simultaneously (seems to be possible with some windows versions
>and not with others) this would be an easy solution. Unfortunately, my
>PD does not respond to volume messages.
>
>I have a program that contains all the code to send the messages with
>a graphic slider control and will edit out all of the extraneous
>material (it is currently a Virtual Windchime program) if anyone is
>interested. I will probably adapt the same program to send controller
>messages for controlling the Velocity Controller. If there is more
>interest than my own, I could make this a general purpose program to
>send volume or controller messages.
>
> --  Best
>regards, Spencer_Lists Chase lists@... 67550
>Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542    Postal service only.
>Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only. Spencer@...
>http://www.spencerserolls.com
>http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm (707) 984-8356
>
>

---- Message sent via freenetname webmail - http://www.freenetname.co.uk/ Up to 8Mb broadband now from just \ufffd9.99 a month

Greetings Adrian,

I have found the converter to be very useful for my intended use. The
preset curves may be all that I need but I did make a few custom ones
myself. My interest was in being able to quickly make a change while
playing a program to adapt the overall playing loudness to the need at
the moment. Adding the sysex to the beginning of a file offers no
advantage over converting the velocities in the file with my converter
program.

I also downloaded the MidiPipe program for the Mac (I have both Mac
and Windowz computers) but it does not seems to work with an external
MIDI device in System X. There is virtually no documentation that I
can find regarding this or much of anything else about the program. If
anyone knows how to use external MIDI devices with the with MidiPipe
and System X, that might be the best solution but I think it is just
not supported.


Friday, January 27, 2006, 6:41:45 AM, you wrote:
> Hi,

> If you have a sequencing program, you could experiment with the
> preset curves, or create your own curve with the software for the
> converter (I think you need to download it - for free - from their
> website). Using the sequencer, you can combine the 
> converter information with your song file. Then you can re-record
> the combined song & converter information through the converter to
> get a file which has all the velocity values adjusted. The resulting
> file can then be played straight from the Disklavier.

> Adrian Thomas
> Milton Keynes
> UK

-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

On Jan 27, 2006, at 10:02 AM, Spencer_Lists wrote:
>
> I also downloaded the MidiPipe program for the Mac (I have both Mac
> and Windowz computers) but it does not seems to work with an external
> MIDI device in System X. There is virtually no documentation that I
> can find regarding this or much of anything else about the program. If
> anyone knows how to use external MIDI devices with the with MidiPipe
> and System X, that might be the best solution but I think it is just
> not supported.

I use my Roland UM-1S USB midi interface with MidiPipe. For either  
input or output you add the appropriate tool ("Midi In" and/or "Midi  
Out") to your pipe. Any external interfaces or IAC buses that are  
active on your machine should show up in the pop-up list in the tool  
pane at the bottom of the MidiPipe window. As long as the interface  
appears as active in Audio MIDI Setup, it should appear in the pop-up.

...matthew...