Disklavier

Mr. Stibbins is correct that one of the causes of "sticking keys" in
Disklaviers can be the solenoid plunger.

It is great that Mr. Stibbins had success with dry powdered graphite. In my
opinion, an opinion shared by most working piano technicians, graphite is
generally not an appropriate lubricant for use in the piano. It is true that
decades ago graphite was widely used in pianos, but time has passed it by;
there are better, cleaner, more effective lubricants with fewer bad side
effects now available.

Mr. Stibbins states, "I found that there was no lubrication on the solenoid
plungers." The reason there was no lubrication on the solenoid plungers is
that none is generally needed. I service many Disklaviers and have found
less than a hand full of solenoid plungers that did not move freely, and
these were generally in brand new pianos where the warranty was still very
much in effect. I recommend that owners finding this problem request
warranty service; Yamaha, after all, provides the finest warranty service in
the business.

Kent Swafford, Registered Piano Technician
Kansas City


on 9/9/00 5:02 AM, Richard Stibbons at bonzo@... wrote:

> I had problems from new with sticking keys on my C2 Grand and I found that
> there was no lubrication on the solenoid plungers.  This is easily solved by
> removing the action and applying DRY POWDERED GRAPHITE to them.  Simply lift
> each plunger in turn and rub the powder into the metal surface with a finger.
> Messy but highly effective. I did this about three times when the piano was
> new, excercising it for a for a few weeks between each treatment.  The action
> is now perfect.  Remember to re-calibrate the key velocities afterwards by
> running the "Keyboard Measurement" routine. This has made a tremendous
> difference to the overall performance and the piano is now "run in" and
> stable.  It is the correct thing do and harmless as long as you NEVER use an
> oil based lubricant.
> 
> If you haven't removed a grand action before do be careful.  I suggest you
> seek professional help or, at least, write to me and I'll describe how to do
> it without breaking off the hammers !
> 
> Powdered graphite is available from locksmiths but make sure it is dry and not
> in solution.
> 
> Richard Stibbons M I M I T
> Cromer England
> bonzo@...

Kent and All,

I purchased a Yamaha DC3IIXG disklavier grand piano in December 1999,
and I occasionally experienced one or more sticking keys.  This never
occurred when I played the piano, but several pieces of Yamaha Pianosoft
software would leave one or more keys stuck when these pieces were
played.  The problems was repeatable, i.e. I could always expect to find
the same keys stuck when I played these pieces time after time.
Fortunately, the dealer from whom I bought my disklavier has a very good
service person.  About a month ago he came out, removed the action from
my grand piano, and very very lightly sanded (with #400 sand paper or
finer) each of the solenoids.  I actually helped the technician in the
very very slight sanding of these solenoids.  Before sanding, you could
feel what I can only describe as a texture on the surface of the
solenoids, i.e. a slight roughness.  After the very slightest of sanding
followed by carefully wiping off the surface of the solenoid with a soft
tissue, the solenoids felt like silk to the touch.  This treatment,
light sanding and wiping the surface clean, was applied to each of the
solenoids in my grand piano.  I am happy to report that since performing
this procedure, not one single key has stuck on my grand piano.

Tom

I have no advice for correcting the sticking of keys, but can describe the cause
on my Mark II:  First of all, sticking does not occur with manual playing
because the problem involves the solenoid armatures which are not energized when
playing manually.  Some passages in PianoSoft and other files release the left
pedal while a note remains ON and the associated solenoid is energized.  As the
keyboard is released and shifts leftward, the key bottom drags on the soft tip
of the solenoid armature and causes the armature to jam in the cylinder of the
solenoid.  The armature of the de-energized solenoid will drop by gravity (as it
was intended to) by lifting the key (which gives the armature a little push
downward), by manually tapping the left pedal, or by the left pedal being
operated subsequently by the file being played.

While a modification of the played file can hide the problem, the sticking seems
to be specific to individual instruments and individual notes.  For example, I
have exchanged "offensive" sequences with others who have the same model
Disklavier.  The sticking was repeatable on only the original Disklavier and
never occurred on the other.

The problem is indeed a sticky one and one that some technicians would rather
not address.  My RPT told me that the problem was not in the piano, but rather
in the Disklavier, and so much for that.  A friend was told by a Yamaha
representative that the problem was in the PianoSoft software, and so much for
that.

I'd be interested in learning if anyone with Mark III's or Pros have experienced
this kind of sticking.  I suspect not.

Bob Welcyng


 

Kent Swafford wrote:
> 
> 
> Mr. Stibbins is correct that one of the causes of "sticking keys" in
> Disklaviers can be the solenoid plunger.
> 
> It is great that Mr. Stibbins had success with dry powdered graphite. In my
> opinion, an opinion shared by most working piano technicians, graphite is
> generally not an appropriate lubricant for use in the piano. It is true that
> decades ago graphite was widely used in pianos, but time has passed it by;
> there are better, cleaner, more effective lubricants with fewer bad side
> effects now available.
> 
> Mr. Stibbins states, "I found that there was no lubrication on the solenoid
> plungers." The reason there was no lubrication on the solenoid plungers is
> that none is generally needed. I service many Disklaviers and have found
> less than a hand full of solenoid plungers that did not move freely, and
> these were generally in brand new pianos where the warranty was still very
> much in effect. I recommend that owners finding this problem request
> warranty service; Yamaha, after all, provides the finest warranty service in
> the business.
> 
> Kent Swafford, Registered Piano Technician
> Kansas City
> 
> on 9/9/00 5:02 AM, Richard Stibbons at bonzo@... wrote:
> 
> > I had problems from new with sticking keys on my C2 Grand and I found that
> > there was no lubrication on the solenoid plungers.  This is easily solved by
> > removing the action and applying DRY POWDERED GRAPHITE to them.  Simply lift
> > each plunger in turn and rub the powder into the metal surface with a finger.
> > Messy but highly effective. I did this about three times when the piano was
> > new, excercising it for a for a few weeks between each treatment.  The action
> > is now perfect.  Remember to re-calibrate the key velocities afterwards by
> > running the "Keyboard Measurement" routine. This has made a tremendous
> > difference to the overall performance and the piano is now "run in" and
> > stable.  It is the correct thing do and harmless as long as you NEVER use an
> > oil based lubricant.
> >
> > If you haven't removed a grand action before do be careful.  I suggest you
> > seek professional help or, at least, write to me and I'll describe how to do
> > it without breaking off the hammers !
> >
> > Powdered graphite is available from locksmiths but make sure it is dry and not
> > in solution.
> >
> > Richard Stibbons M I M I T
> > Cromer England
> > bonzo@...
> 
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-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Robert,

In an e-mail sent yesterday, I described how very very slight sanding of
the solenoid plungers in my DC3IIXG ended all problems with sticking
keys.  I have over 50 Yamaha Pianosoft and Pianosoft Plus disks.  Only a
very few of these disks produced the sticking key problem.  In every
single case, the problem of sticking keys occurred when the left-most
pedal was activated in the software to produce a shift in the keyboard.
The problem was repeatable.  By this I mean that every time that these
songs were played, I would have keys stuck down at the end of the piece
and they were always the same keys for that piece, i.e. different pieces
resulting in different stuck keys throughout the full range of the
keyboard, but any given piece causing the problem always resulted in the
same stuck keys.  Sanding the solenoids as I described in yesterday's
e-mail has completely eliminated the problem.  I can play any piece,
whether it uses the shift pedal or not, and no keys stick at the end of
the piece.

Tom

P.S. I would caution anyone thinking of applying this procedure, i.e.
sanding the solenoid plungers in their disklavier grand piano, that this
is a job for a Yamaha trained technician.  I would never have dreamed of
doing this on my own.