Disklavier

Hi group,

What I`d really like to know is
can you fully take advantage of a Mark IV PRO`s extra features from a 
computer?
In other words can you program in step time a Mark IV PRO by inputing 
the extra MIDI data as well as the usual note on`s and velocity? is it 
feasable?

Also which other MIDI controllers does the XP format actually use and 
how?

info much appreciated,

thank you
robert.

Step time programming for a Mark IV Pro using Yamaha's full XP SMF is 
possible--I know someone who has been done it.  It is hardly practical 
to do so, however.  For one thing, I'm not aware that Yamaha has openly 
published the XP SMF definition. You might have to discover that for 
yourself through reverse engineering.  Second, a sequencer such as 
Cakewalk could be used, but would be highly impractical--you would want 
a custom programmed sequencer for that job.

As you probably know,  the resolution of note velocity in XP SMF is over 
a thousand steps.  You might question how many are the least number of 
steps different in velocity, typically, to enable you to detect a 
difference in sound level in the same note. (In my experience with a 
lowly Mark II DC3 with its 127 steps of velocity, it takes more than a 
few steps difference in velocity  for me to detect a difference. It 
would take a still larger change in velocity of an individual note 
within a reproduced piece to be detected by most listeners.)

You surely have your reasons for considering step programming.  Most 
people who try it soon realize that musical notation is at best only an 
approximate representation of a fine musical performance--a mere guide 
to the performer.  In terms of efficiency in producing good music, step 
programming simply doesn't compete with playing and recording live.

heritage_flowline wrote:

>Hi group,
>
>What I`d really like to know is
>can you fully take advantage of a Mark IV PRO`s extra features from a 
>computer?
>In other words can you program in step time a Mark IV PRO by inputing 
>the extra MIDI data as well as the usual note on`s and velocity? is it 
>feasable?
>
>Also which other MIDI controllers does the XP format actually use and 
>how?
>
>info much appreciated,
>
>thank you
>robert.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
>disklavier-owner@...
>
>To reach our group's web site go to:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
>Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
>http://MuncyFamily.com 
>
>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
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>
>Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>  
>

-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Hi,
Thanks for the reply,
---
> Step time programming for a Mark IV Pro using Yamaha's full XP SMF 
is 
> possible--I know someone who has been done it.  It is hardly 
practical 
> to do so, however.
---
do you have their email so I could ask them how they got on in more 
detail please?
---
  For one thing, I'm not aware that Yamaha has openly 
> published the XP SMF definition. You might have to discover that 
for 
> yourself through reverse engineering. 
---
Yes, unless someone here has already done that.
I did d/l some files from www.piano-e-competition.com
which where supposed to contain XP data but as far as I could see 
looking at the MIDI files they looked normal apart from pressure 
controllers which looked either on or off?
---
 Second, a sequencer such as 
> Cakewalk could be used, but would be highly impractical--you would 
want 
> a custom programmed sequencer for that job.
> 
---
Why? What do you think would be the tricky part?
I dont mind sitting down for hours entering in notes.
---


> As you probably know,  the resolution of note velocity in XP SMF is 
over 
> a thousand steps.  You might question how many are the least number 
of 
> steps different in velocity, typically, to enable you to detect a 
> difference in sound level in the same note. (In my experience with 
a 
> lowly Mark II DC3 with its 127 steps of velocity, it takes more 
than a 
> few steps difference in velocity  for me to detect a difference. It 
> would take a still larger change in velocity of an individual note 
> within a reproduced piece to be detected by most listeners.)

yes agreed but that sounds like fun trying it out having all that 
depth at your programming fingertips, especially for programming 
crescendos on multiple notes.
 
> You surely have your reasons for considering step programming.  
Most 
> people who try it soon realize that musical notation is at best 
only an 
> approximate representation of a fine musical performance--a mere 
guide 
> to the performer.  In terms of efficiency in producing good music, 
step 
> programming simply doesn't compete with playing and recording live.
> 
Yes agreed BUT I`m apporaching it from a different angle and trying 
to compose stuff that can`t be played by a human, because i`m better 
at programming music than I am at playing it.
2. utilising this latest technology in a way to produce something new.

as much as I like listening to brilliant pianists
I actually like the mechanical, quantised feel of a player piano or 
MIDI playback, without a human performing it BUT with a real 
instrument and the depth of sound you get compared to samples.
----


> heritage_flowline wrote:
> 
> >Hi group,
> >
> >What I`d really like to know is
> >can you fully take advantage of a Mark IV PRO`s extra features 
from a 
> >computer?
> >In other words can you program in step time a Mark IV PRO by 
inputing 
> >the extra MIDI data as well as the usual note on`s and velocity? 
is it 
> >feasable?
> >
> >Also which other MIDI controllers does the XP format actually use 
and 
> >how?
> >
> >info much appreciated,
> >
> >thank you
> >robert.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> >
> >To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
moderator, send it to:
> >disklavier-owner@...
> >
> >To reach our group's web site go to:
> >http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> >Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It 
contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among 
many other things, The url is:
> >http://MuncyFamily.com 
> >
> >THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> >If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to 
the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email 
to:

> >disklavier-unsubscribe@... 
> >
> >Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> >disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> >http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> -- 
> Robert Welcyng
> Anchorage, Alaska
>

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "heritage_flowline" 
<heritage_flowline@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Thanks for the reply,
> ---
> > Step time programming for a Mark IV Pro using Yamaha's full XP 
SMF 
> is 
> > possible--I know someone who has been done it.  It is hardly 
> practical 
> > to do so, however.
> ---
> do you have their email so I could ask them how they got on in more 
> detail please?
> ---
>   For one thing, I'm not aware that Yamaha has openly 
> > published the XP SMF definition. You might have to discover that 
> for 
> > yourself through reverse engineering. 
> ---
> Yes, unless someone here has already done that.
> I did d/l some files from www.piano-e-competition.com
> which where supposed to contain XP data but as far as I could see 
> looking at the MIDI files they looked normal apart from pressure 
> controllers which looked either on or off?
> ---
>  Second, a sequencer such as 
> > Cakewalk could be used, but would be highly impractical--you 
would 
> want 
> > a custom programmed sequencer for that job.
> > 
> ---
> Why? What do you think would be the tricky part?
> I dont mind sitting down for hours entering in notes.
> ---
I've not tried it myself, but I would suspect that at XP resolution, 
MIDI and the software is just not fast enough to handle the sheer 
volume of velocity data. Obviously, you could limit the amount of 
velocity information you enter in step recording, but that would 
pretty much defeat the object of using XP data.

> I've not tried it myself, but I would suspect that at XP 
resolution, 
> MIDI and the software is just not fast enough to handle the sheer 
> volume of velocity data. Obviously, you could limit the amount of 
> velocity information you enter in step recording, but that would 
> pretty much defeat the object of using XP data.
>

Yes this isnt what i want to hear
BUT apparently 1 Mark IV PRO can control another succesfully via MIDI
which means that all that XP data can be squeezed in
I just wish we could get the answers for these things.
I looked on wikipedia quote:

`For Disklavier Pro, the recorded midi file format (XP SMF) 
constitutes a high resolution file that goes beyond the boundaries of 
a typical MIDI file.

hmm beyond the boundries of a TYPICAL file,so maybe it is still 
possible but maybe USB or firewire can be used?

 This file uses a scale of 0-1023 to record hammer (note-on) 
velocity, key-on velocity, and key-release (note-off) velocity. Pedal 
data for sustain and una corda are recorded as continuous data from 0-
127. This type of file should be played from the disklavier control 
unit, not from computer.

I dont understand that.

For other disklavier series, the format conforms to the normal MIDI 
specification but includes data that is not often recorded or played 
back by other MIDI instruments, such as key release velocity (from 0-
127). As with the XP SMF, pedal data for sustain and una corda are 
recorded as continuous data from 0-127.

whats una corda?