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another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-18 by jaallc

Anyone out there have a Mark IV?  My right pedal seems very
noisy to me, I can hear it thumping throughout the song (each
time it is pressed).  It also makes a noticeable noise, beyond
a thumb, almost as if a quiet clapping noise.  My dealer has
already been out and made some adjustments, but it's not really
any better.  I'm wondering if this is normal or if these pedals
are supposed to be perfectly quiet?  

Incidentally, the tech who came out complained that Yamaha gives
them no training, that they have to call Yamaha for anything but
the most basic problems.  Didn't exactly inspire confidence.  The
only adjustments he made to my pedal were to two washers on the
top and bottom of the pole itself, surely there is more that can
be done than this? 

Regards,
Jason

Re: [disklavier] another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-18 by Robert Welcyng

The loud pedal adjustment procedure involves more than what your tech 
apparently did. Yamaha's maintenance procedures have been detailed on a 
2002 CD-ROM titled, "Hybrid Piano Service CD."  I don't know that this 
CD has been updated for the Mark IV, but Yamaha has surely documented 
the procedure.

To troubleshoot your problem, the complete performance of this procedure 
is a must.

In general, the adjustment includes the following steps in this order:

* Adjust the solenoid gap.

* Adjust lost motion.  (It sounds as though your tech did that.)

* Adjust the pedal stop.

* Put the DKV in the Maintenance Mode and perform the pedal calibration 
and adjustment of the half-pedal point.

You might consider contacting Yamaha for help in locating a qualified 
Yamaha-trained technician in your area.  

On the Mark II, and surely on the Mark IV, there is a demonstration 
piece in ROM, Schumann's Traumerei, beautifully pedaled, which should 
play perfectly when the adjustment has been properly completed. A wise 
technician would demonstrate his work to you by playing this piece to 
assure you that he did properly adjust the pedal.

Wise, because many MIDI performances do play on a perfectly adjusted 
Disklavier with a terrible thump.  Some files, even older PianoSoft 
disks that are still offered today, have on/off sustain pedaling, rather 
than continuous pedaling, that thump when the damper assembly drops from 
the full-open to the released position. Thumping can also occur when the 
pianist records and drops the dampers fully and abruptly.

In other words, the problem you are experiencing could be caused by the 
file(s) you are playing.

As you probably know, the MIDI values of a released and fully open pedal 
are 0 and 127.  I have had some success in mitigating the thump of 
problematic files by limiting that range to about 25 to 90.  On my Mark 
II instrument, a value of 25 is still fully damped and at 90, completely 
undamped.  Of course, that means that the pedal solenoid is energized 
throughout the playing piece--a condition that might occur when a 
skilled artist records.  I have had no problems with the solenoid 
overheating.

jaallc wrote:

>Anyone out there have a Mark IV?  My right pedal seems very
>noisy to me, I can hear it thumping throughout the song (each
>time it is pressed).  It also makes a noticeable noise, beyond
>a thumb, almost as if a quiet clapping noise.  My dealer has
>already been out and made some adjustments, but it's not really
>any better.  I'm wondering if this is normal or if these pedals
>are supposed to be perfectly quiet?  
>
>Incidentally, the tech who came out complained that Yamaha gives
>them no training, that they have to call Yamaha for anything but
>the most basic problems.  Didn't exactly inspire confidence.  The
>only adjustments he made to my pedal were to two washers on the
>top and bottom of the pole itself, surely there is more that can
>be done than this? 
>
>Regards,
>Jason
>
>
>
>
>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
>disklavier-owner@...
>
>To reach our group's web site go to:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
>Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
>http://MuncyFamily.com 
>
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>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
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>
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> 
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-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Re: [disklavier] another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-18 by James Fry

Hi Robert,

Is it possible to obtain this CD as a member of the general public? Have 
you any information on how much it costs?

Many thanks!

James


Robert Welcyng wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> The loud pedal adjustment procedure involves more than what your tech
> apparently did. Yamaha's maintenance procedures have been detailed on a
> 2002 CD-ROM titled, "Hybrid Piano Service CD." I don't know that this
> CD has been updated for the Mark IV, but Yamaha has surely documented
> the procedure.
>
> To troubleshoot your problem, the complete performance of this procedure
> is a must.
>
> In general, the adjustment includes the following steps in this order:
>
> * Adjust the solenoid gap.
>
> * Adjust lost motion. (It sounds as though your tech did that.)
>
> * Adjust the pedal stop.
>
> * Put the DKV in the Maintenance Mode and perform the pedal calibration
> and adjustment of the half-pedal point.
>
> You might consider contacting Yamaha for help in locating a qualified
> Yamaha-trained technician in your area.
>
> On the Mark II, and surely on the Mark IV, there is a demonstration
> piece in ROM, Schumann's Traumerei, beautifully pedaled, which should
> play perfectly when the adjustment has been properly completed. A wise
> technician would demonstrate his work to you by playing this piece to
> assure you that he did properly adjust the pedal.
>
> Wise, because many MIDI performances do play on a perfectly adjusted
> Disklavier with a terrible thump. Some files, even older PianoSoft
> disks that are still offered today, have on/off sustain pedaling, rather
> than continuous pedaling, that thump when the damper assembly drops from
> the full-open to the released position. Thumping can also occur when the
> pianist records and drops the dampers fully and abruptly.
>
> In other words, the problem you are experiencing could be caused by the
> file(s) you are playing.
>
> As you probably know, the MIDI values of a released and fully open pedal
> are 0 and 127. I have had some success in mitigating the thump of
> problematic files by limiting that range to about 25 to 90. On my Mark
> II instrument, a value of 25 is still fully damped and at 90, completely
> undamped. Of course, that means that the pedal solenoid is energized
> throughout the playing piece--a condition that might occur when a
> skilled artist records. I have had no problems with the solenoid
> overheating.
>
> jaallc wrote:
>
> >Anyone out there have a Mark IV? My right pedal seems very
> >noisy to me, I can hear it thumping throughout the song (each
> >time it is pressed). It also makes a noticeable noise, beyond
> >a thumb, almost as if a quiet clapping noise. My dealer has
> >already been out and made some adjustments, but it's not really
> >any better. I'm wondering if this is normal or if these pedals
> >are supposed to be perfectly quiet?
> >
> >Incidentally, the tech who came out complained that Yamaha gives
> >them no training, that they have to call Yamaha for anything but
> >the most basic problems. Didn't exactly inspire confidence. The
> >only adjustments he made to my pedal were to two washers on the
> >top and bottom of the pole itself, surely there is more that can
> >be done than this?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Jason
>
>
>

Re: [disklavier] another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-18 by Robert Welcyng

Hi James,

Yamaha distributes the maintenance and service CD-ROM to dealers and technicians. �I doubt that they want consumers to have them, but you could always ask.

James Fry wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
Hi Robert,

Is it possible to obtain this CD as a member of the general public? Have 
you any information on how much it costs?

Many thanks!

James


Robert Welcyng wrote:
  
The loud pedal adjustment procedure involves more than what your tech
apparently did. Yamaha's maintenance procedures have been detailed on a
2002 CD-ROM titled, "Hybrid Piano Service CD." I don't know that this
CD has been updated for the Mark IV, but Yamaha has surely documented
the procedure.

To troubleshoot your problem, the complete performance of this procedure
is a must.

In general, the adjustment includes the following steps in this order:

* Adjust the solenoid gap.

* Adjust lost motion. (It sounds as though your tech did that.)

* Adjust the pedal stop.

* Put the DKV in the Maintenance Mode and perform the pedal calibration
and adjustment of the half-pedal point.

You might consider contacting Yamaha for help in locating a qualified
Yamaha-trained technician in your area.

On the Mark II, and surely on the Mark IV, there is a demonstration
piece in ROM, Schumann's Traumerei, beautifully pedaled, which should
play perfectly when the adjustment has been properly completed. A wise
technician would demonstrate his work to you by playing this piece to
assure you that he did properly adjust the pedal.

Wise, because many MIDI performances do play on a perfectly adjusted
Disklavier with a terrible thump. Some files, even older PianoSoft
disks that are still offered today, have on/off sustain pedaling, rather
than continuous pedaling, that thump when the damper assembly drops from
the full-open to the released position. Thumping can also occur when the
pianist records and drops the dampers fully and abruptly.

In other words, the problem you are experiencing could be caused by the
file(s) you are playing.

As you probably know, the MIDI values of a released and fully open pedal
are 0 and 127. I have had some success in mitigating the thump of
problematic files by limiting that range to about 25 to 90. On my Mark
II instrument, a value of 25 is still fully damped and at 90, completely
undamped. Of course, that means that the pedal solenoid is energized
throughout the playing piece--a condition that might occur when a
skilled artist records. I have had no problems with the solenoid
overheating.

jaallc wrote:

    
Anyone out there have a Mark IV? My right pedal seems very
noisy to me, I can hear it thumping throughout the song (each
time it is pressed). It also makes a noticeable noise, beyond
a thumb, almost as if a quiet clapping noise. My dealer has
already been out and made some adjustments, but it's not really
any better. I'm wondering if this is normal or if these pedals
are supposed to be perfectly quiet?

Incidentally, the tech who came out complained that Yamaha gives
them no training, that they have to call Yamaha for anything but
the most basic problems. Didn't exactly inspire confidence. The
only adjustments he made to my pedal were to two washers on the
top and bottom of the pole itself, surely there is more that can
be done than this?

Regards,
Jason
      
 
    



To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...

To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and moderator, send it to:
disklavier-owner@...

To reach our group's web site go to:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier

Todd's family web site was completely updated 012/22/03.  It contains some fun disklavier content and links to midi sites among many other things, The url is:
http://MuncyFamily.com 

THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
disklavier-unsubscribe@... 

Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join 
 
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-- 
Robert Welcyng
Anchorage, Alaska

Re[2]: [disklavier] another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-19 by Spencer_Lists

Greetings Robert,

My midimod2test program has the ability to change the pedal on and off
values in a folder full of MIDI files. If this is the problem with
files that have on off pedaling, they can be easily fixed with this
program. The option to limit the values is found under the "other
options" menu. The program also inserts full off pedal commands at the
end of the file to make sure the pedal does not stay on forever.
However, if a file is not allowed to play to completion, the pedal may
stay on. The program may be found on the following page:
http://www.spencerserolls.com/Files4Download.html


> As you probably know, the MIDI values of a released and fully open pedal
> are 0 and 127. I have had some success in mitigating the thump of
> problematic files by limiting that range to about 25 to 90. On my Mark
> II instrument, a value of 25 is still fully damped and at 90, completely
> undamped. Of course, that means that the pedal solenoid is energized
> throughout the playing piece--a condition that might occur when a
> skilled artist records. I have had no problems with the solenoid
> overheating.


-- 
Best regards,
Spencer_Lists Chase        mailto:lists@...
67550 Bell Springs Rd.
Garberville,  CA 95542    Postal service only.
Laytonville, CA 95454    UPS only.
Spencer@...
http://www.spencerserolls.com
http://www.spencerserolls.com/MidiValve.htm
(707) 984-8356

Re: [disklavier] another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-19 by Carol Beigel

There are some special adjustments to the pedals unique
to the MarkIV. There is absolutely no excuse for your
Disklavier to not work properly, and you really need to
contact your dealer.  It is their job to keep you
happy!  :)  It can take a little time for piano techs
to get up to speed on something so new as a MarkIV, but
Yamaha tech support in the USA is the
finest there is, and if your technician is having
trouble in your home, they should call 800-854-1569 and
get immediate help. Repair on a Disklavier is not
something you want to try yourself.  Besides, most of
the time the problem is not with the Disklavier
electronics, but something else.

Does your pedal make a thumping noise on EVERY song, or
just some songs? Is the pedal quieter when playing
Yamaha disks than when playing MIDI files?

It is also very, very important that you have the
latest software update installed on your MarkIV. You
can also get this package from your dealer as it
includes a new instruction manual on the new features.
I believe the latest version is 1.2

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message -----
From: "jaallc" <jasonht@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: [disklavier] another pedal question (specific
to Mark IV)


> Anyone out there have a Mark IV?  My right pedal
seems very
> noisy to me, I can hear it thumping throughout the
song (each
> time it is pressed).  It also makes a noticeable
noise, beyond
> a thumb, almost as if a quiet clapping noise.  My
dealer has
> already been out and made some adjustments, but it's
not really
> any better.  I'm wondering if this is normal or if
these pedals
> are supposed to be perfectly quiet?
>
> Incidentally, the tech who came out complained that
Yamaha gives
> them no training, that they have to call Yamaha for
anything but
> the most basic problems.  Didn't exactly inspire
confidence.  The
> only adjustments he made to my pedal were to two
washers on the
> top and bottom of the pole itself, surely there is
more that can
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> be done than this?
>
> Regards,
> Jason

Re: [disklavier] another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-19 by George F. Litterst

Good evening, everyone.

On Nov 18, 2006, at 2:33 PM, Jason wrote:

Incidentally, the tech who came out complained that Yamaha gives
them no training, that they have to call Yamaha for anything but
the most basic problems. Didn't exactly inspire confidence.

This is a curious comment from the tech. Yamaha runs training programs regularly in Buena Park, CA. The company also sends technical support people to dealerships from time-to-time and also offers classes at PTG (Piano Technician Guild) conventions.

Regards,
PianoBench

=

Re: another pedal question (specific to Mark IV)

2006-11-19 by nealpolan

I have the same problem on my 1V prove as well. A very qualified 
techs name is Mark Hullibarger. He is in the Southern California LA 
area. He improved my noise quite a bit. Yamaha hopes to improve this 
some day but he problem is that its difficult to keep a piano 
looking and feeling the same on manual play yet have "tight 
clearances" on auto play.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "jaallc" <jasonht@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Anyone out there have a Mark IV?  My right pedal seems very
> noisy to me, I can hear it thumping throughout the song (each
> time it is pressed).  It also makes a noticeable noise, beyond
> a thumb, almost as if a quiet clapping noise.  My dealer has
> already been out and made some adjustments, but it's not really
> any better.  I'm wondering if this is normal or if these pedals
> are supposed to be perfectly quiet?  
> 
> Incidentally, the tech who came out complained that Yamaha gives
> them no training, that they have to call Yamaha for anything but
> the most basic problems.  Didn't exactly inspire confidence.  The
> only adjustments he made to my pedal were to two washers on the
> top and bottom of the pole itself, surely there is more that can
> be done than this? 
> 
> Regards,
> Jason
>

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