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Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-26 by uhhmmmmmmmmmm

Hi,

I am playing a Pianosoft title and when using the digital reproduction 
of sound, the keys on the piano will move and digital piano sounds are 
heard.  Is the sound actually generated by the keys hitting the 
dampened strings, or is it totally relying on the MIDI information to 
generate the tone?  If I play the same song in digital and turn off the 
keys so they don't move, it sounds exactly the same.  I would assume if 
the piano is really playing (that is, not just reading the midi and 
creating the sound in the hardware) it would sound at least a little 
bit different, wouldn't it?

When playing as a digital piano, is the key movement just for show?

Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-26 by uhhmmmmmmmmmm

Yes, mine has the silent feature - DC2A.  When I have the acoustic 
piano switch to digital sound, is the piano really "playing"?  I 
can't find this info in my manual.  I'm curious to know if when in 
digital mode with the keys moving, is it actually determining the 
sound from the hammers or is it "fake" totally generated from the 
midi instructions.

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "JORGE FERNANDEZ" <jorgefedez@...> 
wrote:
>
> SOme DKV has a "Silent Feature", the keys move but not mehcanical 
piano
> (hammer & string) is produced.
> 
> If yours has this feature, just tun it off.
> (I seem to remember that is the pedal in the midle the one that 
control
> this)
> With your foot, push it down and move it in horizontal direction
> 
> 
> 2008/2/26, uhhmmmmmmmmmm <zackcat@...>:
> >
> >   Hi,
> >
> > I am playing a Pianosoft title and when using the digital 
reproduction
> > of sound, the keys on the piano will move and digital piano 
sounds are
> > heard. Is the sound actually generated by the keys hitting the
> > dampened strings, or is it totally relying on the MIDI 
information to
> > generate the tone? If I play the same song in digital and turn 
off the
> > keys so they don't move, it sounds exactly the same. I would 
assume if
> > the piano is really playing (that is, not just reading the midi 
and
> > creating the sound in the hardware) it would sound at least a 
little
> > bit different, wouldn't it?
> >
> > When playing as a digital piano, is the key movement just for 
show?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Saludos
> Jorge Fernández
>                                    '''
>                     |            (0 0)
> ___,,,^..^,,,__/----oOO---(_)---OOo---
>

Re: [disklavier] Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-27 by Carol Beigel

Put your hand on the strings while the piano is playing.  Do your feel the 
vibrations?  Do you hear a "thunk" where your hand is?  If so, the hammers 
are hitting the strings.

Or put your foot on the far right pedal and hold it down while the the piano 
is playing.  If all the notes run together, then you are in acoustic mode.

On the other hand, if you can take your fingernails and rake them over the 
strings while a disk is playing, and this different sound does not interfere 
with the song, then you are probably in digital mode.

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "uhhmmmmmmmmmm" <zackcat@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:11 PM
Subject: [disklavier] Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on 
the key presses for sound?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Hi,
>
> I am playing a Pianosoft title and when using the digital reproduction
> of sound, the keys on the piano will move and digital piano sounds are
> heard.  Is the sound actually generated by the keys hitting the
> dampened strings, or is it totally relying on the MIDI information to
> generate the tone?  If I play the same song in digital and turn off the
> keys so they don't move, it sounds exactly the same.  I would assume if
> the piano is really playing (that is, not just reading the midi and
> creating the sound in the hardware) it would sound at least a little
> bit different, wouldn't it?
>
> When playing as a digital piano, is the key movement just for show?
>
>
>
> To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
> To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> moderator, send it to:
> disklavier-owner@...
>
> To reach our group's web site go to:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
> THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much mail, 
> go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.  That 
> will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.  If you 
> insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
> Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 
> 9:08 AM
>

Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-27 by uhhmmmmmmmmmm

Hi Carol.

I believe I know when it is playing in acoustic mode and when it is 
playing in digital mode (there is only one button that switches 
between the two modes on the left side of the keyboard).  The 
question I have is when in digital mode with key=ON, is the sound 
generated by the hammers hitting the deadened strings or is the key 
movement all for show and doesn't do anything for the sound?  When I 
turn the keys off in digital mode, it sounds the same as when the 
keys are moving which leads me to believe the sound is not generated 
by the hammers like it is when someone (that is, a person, and not 
the midi player) is playing the piano in digital mode.  I do notice 
that the pedals don't move in digital mode when they do in acoustic 
mode so perhaps in playback mode the key movement really is all for 
show.

Any thoughts on this?

--Ron


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...> 
wrote:
>
> Put your hand on the strings while the piano is playing.  Do your 
feel the 
> vibrations?  Do you hear a "thunk" where your hand is?  If so, the 
hammers 
> are hitting the strings.
> 
> Or put your foot on the far right pedal and hold it down while the 
the piano 
> is playing.  If all the notes run together, then you are in 
acoustic mode.
> 
> On the other hand, if you can take your fingernails and rake them 
over the 
> strings while a disk is playing, and this different sound does not 
interfere 
> with the song, then you are probably in digital mode.
> 
> Carol Beigel
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "uhhmmmmmmmmmm" <zackcat@...>
> To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:11 PM
> Subject: [disklavier] Does digital playing of disklavier actually 
rely on 
> the key presses for sound?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am playing a Pianosoft title and when using the digital 
reproduction
> > of sound, the keys on the piano will move and digital piano 
sounds are
> > heard.  Is the sound actually generated by the keys hitting the
> > dampened strings, or is it totally relying on the MIDI 
information to
> > generate the tone?  If I play the same song in digital and turn 
off the
> > keys so they don't move, it sounds exactly the same.  I would 
assume if
> > the piano is really playing (that is, not just reading the midi 
and
> > creating the sound in the hardware) it would sound at least a 
little
> > bit different, wouldn't it?
> >
> > When playing as a digital piano, is the key movement just for 
show?
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> > moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
much mail, 
> > go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
instead.  That 
> > will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the 
group.  If you 
> > insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 
2/26/2008 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > 9:08 AM
> >
>

RE: [disklavier] Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-27 by Jerry Dutcher

Ron,

 

It's for show.  Engaging the Silent Mode flips a bar over the hammers which
stops them from hitting the strings. All the sound is electronic in this
mode.  You can turn the key action on or off when playing MIDI files, but if
it's on the key action is only for show.

 

To understand this better, try it out.  Look down at the hammers when you
switch the silent mode on and off - you'll see the horizontal bar flip down
to stop any keys that are played.  Now press a key and you'll see that the
hammer hits the bar before getting to the strings.  

 

Jerry

 

-----Original Message-----
From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of uhhmmmmmmmmmm
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:30 PM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [disklavier] Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely
on the key presses for sound?

 

Hi Carol.

I believe I know when it is playing in acoustic mode and when it is 
playing in digital mode (there is only one button that switches 
between the two modes on the left side of the keyboard). The 
question I have is when in digital mode with key=ON, is the sound 
generated by the hammers hitting the deadened strings or is the key 
movement all for show and doesn't do anything for the sound? When I 
turn the keys off in digital mode, it sounds the same as when the 
keys are moving which leads me to believe the sound is not generated 
by the hammers like it is when someone (that is, a person, and not 
the midi player) is playing the piano in digital mode. I do notice 
that the pedals don't move in digital mode when they do in acoustic 
mode so perhaps in playback mode the key movement really is all for 
show.

Any thoughts on this?

--Ron

--- In disklavier@yahoogro <mailto:disklavier%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com,
"Carol Beigel" <thecarolb@...> 
wrote:
>
> Put your hand on the strings while the piano is playing. Do your 
feel the 
> vibrations? Do you hear a "thunk" where your hand is? If so, the 
hammers 
> are hitting the strings.
> 
> Or put your foot on the far right pedal and hold it down while the 
the piano 
> is playing. If all the notes run together, then you are in 
acoustic mode.
> 
> On the other hand, if you can take your fingernails and rake them 
over the 
> strings while a disk is playing, and this different sound does not 
interfere 
> with the song, then you are probably in digital mode.
> 
> Carol Beigel
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "uhhmmmmmmmmmm" <zackcat@...>
> To: <disklavier@yahoogro <mailto:disklavier%40yahoogroups.com> ups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:11 PM
> Subject: [disklavier] Does digital playing of disklavier actually 
rely on 
> the key presses for sound?
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am playing a Pianosoft title and when using the digital 
reproduction
> > of sound, the keys on the piano will move and digital piano 
sounds are
> > heard. Is the sound actually generated by the keys hitting the
> > dampened strings, or is it totally relying on the MIDI 
information to
> > generate the tone? If I play the same song in digital and turn 
off the
> > keys so they don't move, it sounds exactly the same. I would 
assume if
> > the piano is really playing (that is, not just reading the midi 
and
> > creating the sound in the hardware) it would sound at least a 
little
> > bit different, wouldn't it?
> >
> > When playing as a digital piano, is the key movement just for 
show?
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and 
> > moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups. <http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier>
com/group/disklavier
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too 
much mail, 
> > go the the web site and change your email delivery option 
instead. That 
> > will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the 
group. If you 
> > insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups. <http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join>
com/group/disklavier/join
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 
2/26/2008 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > 9:08 AM
> >
>

RE: [disklavier] Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-27 by Alex Mattus

The sound is digital, the hammer moves but is block by the bar so it doesnt hit the string. It's arm is stopped by the bar so the hammer cant reach the string. You can actually turn off the key to hammer action and you wont see the keys moving but still get the digital sound.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of uhhmmmmmmmmmm
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:30 AM
To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [disklavier] Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

Hi Carol.

I believe I know when it is playing in acoustic mode and when it is
playing in digital mode (there is only one button that switches
between the two modes on the left side of the keyboard). The
question I have is when in digital mode with key=ON, is the sound
generated by the hammers hitting the deadened strings or is the key
movement all for show and doesn't do anything for the sound? When I
turn the keys off in digital mode, it sounds the same as when the
keys are moving which leads me to believe the sound is not generated
by the hammers like it is when someone (that is, a person, and not
the midi player) is playing the piano in digital mode. I do notice
that the pedals don't move in digital mode when they do in acoustic
mode so perhaps in playback mode the key movement really is all for
show.

Any thoughts on this?

--Ron

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" ..>
wrote:
>
> Put your hand on the strings while the piano is playing. Do your
feel the
> vibrations? Do you hear a "thunk" where your hand is? If so, the
hammers
> are hitting the strings.
>
> Or put your foot on the far right pedal and hold it down while the
the piano
> is playing. If all the notes run together, then you are in
acoustic mode.
>
> On the other hand, if you can take your fingernails and rake them
over the
> strings while a disk is playing, and this different sound does not
interfere
> with the song, then you are probably in digital mode.
>
> Carol Beigel
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "uhhmmmmmmmmmm" >;
> To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:11 PM
> Subject: [disklavier] Does digital playing of disklavier actually
rely on
> the key presses for sound?
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am playing a Pianosoft title and when using the digital
reproduction
> > of sound, the keys on the piano will move and digital piano
sounds are
> > heard. Is the sound actually generated by the keys hitting the
> > dampened strings, or is it totally relying on the MIDI
information to
> > generate the tone? If I play the same song in digital and turn
off the
> > keys so they don't move, it sounds exactly the same. I would
assume if
> > the piano is really playing (that is, not just reading the midi
and
> >; creating the sound in the hardware) it would sound at least a
little
> > bit different, wouldn't it?
> >
> > When playing as a digital piano, is the key movement just for
show?
> >
> >
> >
> > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@...
> >
> > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
> > moderator, send it to:
> > disklavier-owner@...
> >
> > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
much mail,
> > go the the web site and change your email delivery option
instead. That
> > will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the
group. If you
> > insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
> > disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date:
2/26/2008
> > 9:08 AM
> >
>

Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-28 by uhhmmmmmmmmmm

I found this on the Yamaha web site:

The Yamaha Grand Silent System provides additional versatility. With the touch of a button, you can prevent the hammers from striking the strings, while generating superb real-time digital piano tones — so true to life that they even recreate the harmonic resonance resulting from incremental use of the sustain pedal. The Silent System is also ideal for multi-track recording, allowing you to record orchestral tracks from the piano keyboard without sounding the piano. An exclusive Quick Escape™ action mechanism and dual-mode sensors automatically compensate for hammer stroke variations, maintaining natural touch and response in both Silent and conventional modes.

So, it appears from this that digital is indeed making the sound in real time based on the key press (pressure, duration, speed). That makes sense when someone is actually playing the piano. Using the pedals and keys translates into digital reproduction of an acoustic piano's sound.

Playback of a recording is a different story. During playback in acoustic mode, the piano sound is definitely dependent on the hammers hitting the strings (also note that the pedals may be used). But during playback in silent (digital) mode, the sound is generated completely from the midi information. The keys can optionally move but that is only for show. The pedals are not used, not even for show.

Seems kinda odd for someone to want to use their piano to play a midi file. You may as well just play it on your computer.

I hope I paraphased and expanded on your reply accurately.

--Ron

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Mattus" wrote:
>
> The sound is digital, the hammer moves but is block by the bar so it doesnt
> hit the string. It's arm is stopped by the bar so the hammer cant reach the
> string. You can actually turn off the key to hammer action and you wont see
> the keys moving but still get the digital sound.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: disklavier@yahoogroups.com [mailto:disklavier@yahoogroups.com]On
> Behalf Of uhhmmmmmmmmmm
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:30 AM
> To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [disklavier] Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely
> on the key presses for sound?
>
>
> Hi Carol.
>
> I believe I know when it is playing in acoustic mode and when it is
> playing in digital mode (there is only one button that switches
> between the two modes on the left side of the keyboard). The
> question I have is when in digital mode with key=ON, is the sound
> generated by the hammers hitting the deadened strings or is the key
> movement all for show and doesn't do anything for the sound? When I
> turn the keys off in digital mode, it sounds the same as when the
> keys are moving which leads me to believe the sound is not generated
> by the hammers like it is when someone (that is, a person, and not
> the midi player) is playing the piano in digital mode. I do notice
> that the pedals don't move in digital mode when they do in acoustic
> mode so perhaps in playback mode the key movement really is all for
> show.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> --Ron
>
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Carol Beigel" thecarolb@
> wrote:
> >
> > Put your hand on the strings while the piano is playing. Do your
> feel the
> > vibrations? Do you hear a "thunk" where your hand is? If so, the
> hammers
> > are hitting the strings.
> >
> > Or put your foot on the far right pedal and hold it down while the
> the piano
> > is playing. If all the notes run together, then you are in
> acoustic mode.
> >
> > On the other hand, if you can take your fingernails and rake them
> over the
> > strings while a disk is playing, and this different sound does not
> interfere
> > with the song, then you are probably in digital mode.
> >
> > Carol Beigel
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "uhhmmmmmmmmmm" zackcat@
> > To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:11 PM
> > Subject: [disklavier] Does digital playing of disklavier actually
> rely on
> > the key presses for sound?
> >
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I am playing a Pianosoft title and when using the digital
> reproduction
> > > of sound, the keys on the piano will move and digital piano
> sounds are
> > >; heard. Is the sound actually generated by the keys hitting the
> > > dampened strings, or is it totally relying on the MIDI
> information to
> > > generate the tone? If I play the same song in digital and turn
> off the
> > > keys so they don't move, it sounds exactly the same. I would
> assume if
> > > the piano is really playing (that is, not just reading the midi
> and
> > > creating the sound in the hardware) it would sound at least a
> little
> > > bit different, wouldn't it?
> > >
> > > When playing as a digital piano, is the key movement just for
> show?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To Post a message to the group, send it to: disklavier@
> > >
> > > To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
> > > moderator, send it to:
> > > disklavier-owner@
> > >
> > > To reach our group's web site go to:
> > > http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> > >
> > > THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> > > If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too
> much mail,
> > > go the the web site and change your email delivery option
> instead. That
> > > will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the
> group. If you
> > > insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> > > disklavier-unsubscribe@
> > >
> > > Know someone who wants to join? Have them send a blank email to:
> > > disklavier-subscribe@ or give them this link:
> > >; http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> >; >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> >; > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date:
> 2/26/2008
> > > 9:08 AM
> > >
> >
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Does digital playing of disklavier actually rely on the key presses for sound?

2008-02-28 by athomik

Whenever you play play a MIDI or PianoSoft file on the Disklavier in silent mode, the piano sound is generated digitally directly from the file, just like all the voices in the accompaniment. The only difference is that channels 2-16 will play XG/AEM voices whereas the piano part is an AWM voice, using CFIII samples. This is always the case, whether the keys move or not.

As to why you would want to play MIDI files? Many Disklavier customers are not piano players or musicians of any kind (at least in the UK). They buy a Disklavier as a status object to put into their expensive house, they might be a bar, hotel or restaurant and don't want to hire a pianist for 12 hours a day but want a smart looking source of background music, or they may be pianists who likes the idea of their piano being integrated into their distributed HiFi system for background music.

athomik

On Feb 28 2008, uhhmmmmmmmmmm wrote:

>
>I found this on the Yamaha web site:
>
>The Yamaha Grand Silent System provides additional versatility. With the
>touch of a button, you can prevent the hammers from striking the
>strings, while generating superb real-time digital piano tones \u2014 so
>true to life that they even recreate the harmonic resonance resulting
>from incremental use of the sustain pedal. The Silent System is also
>ideal for multi-track recording, allowing you to record orchestral
>tracks from the piano keyboard without sounding the piano. An exclusive
>Quick Escape\u2122 action mechanism and dual-mode sensors automatically
>compensate for hammer stroke variations, maintaining natural touch and
>response in both Silent and conventional modes.
>
>So, it appears from this that digital is indeed making the sound in real
>time based on the key press (pressure, duration, speed). That makes
>sense when someone is actually playing the piano. Using the pedals and
>keys translates into digital reproduction of an acoustic piano's sound.
>
>Playback of a recording is a different story. During playback in
>acoustic mode, the piano sound is definitely dependent on the hammers
>hitting the strings (also note that the pedals may be used). But during
>playback in silent (digital) mode, the sound is generated completely
>from the midi information. The keys can optionally move but that is
>only for show. The pedals are not used, not even for show.
>
>Seems kinda odd for someone to want to use their piano to play a midi
>file. You may as well just play it on your computer.
>
>I hope I paraphased and expanded on your reply accurately.
>
>--Ron

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.