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Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-08 by joegugs2

I am trying to convert songs of my deceased mother playing the piano and singing from 1975 into a midi song file that will play on my Disklavier e3 piano. I digitized her songs from cassette tapes into .wav and .mp3 song files. AmazingMidi and Intelliscore have produced unusable midi files that are not even close to the original. Any suggestions would be most appreciated as it is my dream to have my mom playing my piano for me again. Joe

Re: [disklavier] Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-08 by Mark Fontana

Unfortunately, converting the sound of a performance (WAV) to the
instructions describing how to produce that performance (MIDI) is a very
difficult task, and there is no software currently available that can do
the job in a fully-automatic way and produce results that sound good.
Your recordings are especially problematic since they have singing over
the piano, and that is bound to confuse most tools.

Zenph Studios (http://www.zenph.com) has been producing MIDI files from
the great piano recordings of Art Tatum, Glenn Gould et al. using a
proprietary process that likely involves using software tools to do the
initial analysis, producing a rough musical template which is then
iteratively refined by skilled musicians who constantly compare the
reconstruction with the original recording.  This is very time-consuming
but currently the only way to achieve accurate-sounding results.

If you have deep pockets, you might be able to hire Zenph to work on
your private recordings.  The only other solution yielding worthwhile
results would be to have a pianist record hand-played MIDI files for
your Disklavier that sound sufficiently like your mother's playing.

Mark Fontana
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 05:07 +0000, joegugs2 wrote:

> I am trying to convert songs of my deceased mother playing the piano
> and singing from 1975 into a midi song file that will play on my
> Disklavier e3 piano. I digitized her songs from cassette tapes
> into .wav and .mp3 song files. AmazingMidi and Intelliscore have
> produced unusable midi files that are not even close to the original.
> Any suggestions would be most appreciated as it is my dream to have my
> mom playing my piano for me again. Joe

Re: [disklavier] Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-08 by Terry Cutshall

Deep pockets indeed, they quoted me $1.00 per note!
Since Sony (Glen Gould) has deep pockets it makes since for them.

Terry

Sent from my iPhone
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Mark Fontana <mfontana@...> wrote:

> 
> Unfortunately, converting the sound of a performance (WAV) to the
> instructions describing how to produce that performance (MIDI) is a very
> difficult task, and there is no software currently available that can do
> the job in a fully-automatic way and produce results that sound good.
> Your recordings are especially problematic since they have singing over
> the piano, and that is bound to confuse most tools.
> 
> Zenph Studios (http://www.zenph.com) has been producing MIDI files from
> the great piano recordings of Art Tatum, Glenn Gould et al. using a
> proprietary process that likely involves using software tools to do the
> initial analysis, producing a rough musical template which is then
> iteratively refined by skilled musicians who constantly compare the
> reconstruction with the original recording. This is very time-consuming
> but currently the only way to achieve accurate-sounding results.
> 
> If you have deep pockets, you might be able to hire Zenph to work on
> your private recordings. The only other solution yielding worthwhile
> results would be to have a pianist record hand-played MIDI files for
> your Disklavier that sound sufficiently like your mother's playing.
> 
> Mark Fontana
> 
> On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 05:07 +0000, joegugs2 wrote:
> 
> > I am trying to convert songs of my deceased mother playing the piano
> > and singing from 1975 into a midi song file that will play on my
> > Disklavier e3 piano. I digitized her songs from cassette tapes
> > into .wav and .mp3 song files. AmazingMidi and Intelliscore have
> > produced unusable midi files that are not even close to the original.
> > Any suggestions would be most appreciated as it is my dream to have my
> > mom playing my piano for me again. Joe 
> 
>

Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-08 by joegugs2

I was afraid this might be the case. Sure, I could play along with the audio myself and record my performance then add the singing audio to it, but it wouldn't be the same. It seems like it shouldn't be that difficult, if only I could get a good transcribing of the audio where I could differentiate the two parts, piano and singing. I am considering slowing the tempo down so there would be better separation of the notes when converting automatically so I could tell which are which. I would then delete the singing portion leaving only the piano part, bring the tempo back to normal and ad an audio track of her singing to the midi file. Sounds reasonable only I just started learning about this whole process and have little experience. I was hoping someone might have tried this with success already. Anyone try something like this, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks for your input and ideas.  Joe 

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Terry Cutshall <terry.cutshall@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Deep pockets indeed, they quoted me $1.00 per note!
> Since Sony (Glen Gould) has deep pockets it makes since for them.
> 
> Terry
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Mark Fontana <mfontana@...> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Unfortunately, converting the sound of a performance (WAV) to the
> > instructions describing how to produce that performance (MIDI) is a very
> > difficult task, and there is no software currently available that can do
> > the job in a fully-automatic way and produce results that sound good.
> > Your recordings are especially problematic since they have singing over
> > the piano, and that is bound to confuse most tools.
> > 
> > Zenph Studios (http://www.zenph.com) has been producing MIDI files from
> > the great piano recordings of Art Tatum, Glenn Gould et al. using a
> > proprietary process that likely involves using software tools to do the
> > initial analysis, producing a rough musical template which is then
> > iteratively refined by skilled musicians who constantly compare the
> > reconstruction with the original recording. This is very time-consuming
> > but currently the only way to achieve accurate-sounding results.
> > 
> > If you have deep pockets, you might be able to hire Zenph to work on
> > your private recordings. The only other solution yielding worthwhile
> > results would be to have a pianist record hand-played MIDI files for
> > your Disklavier that sound sufficiently like your mother's playing.
> > 
> > Mark Fontana
> > 
> > On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 05:07 +0000, joegugs2 wrote:
> > 
> > > I am trying to convert songs of my deceased mother playing the piano
> > > and singing from 1975 into a midi song file that will play on my
> > > Disklavier e3 piano. I digitized her songs from cassette tapes
> > > into .wav and .mp3 song files. AmazingMidi and Intelliscore have
> > > produced unusable midi files that are not even close to the original.
> > > Any suggestions would be most appreciated as it is my dream to have my
> > > mom playing my piano for me again. Joe 
> > 
> >
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-08 by Peter Giles

Joe,

I'm not totally sure about this, but wouldn't IntelliScore serve your
purpose here? It does convert audio files into MIDI files. It also
eliminates vocal performances from instrumental tracks.

Peter
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 11/8/10 2:43 PM, "joegugs2" <gugs2001@...> wrote:

>I was afraid this might be the case. Sure, I could play along with the
>audio myself and record my performance then add the singing audio to it,
>but it wouldn't be the same. It seems like it shouldn't be that
>difficult, if only I could get a good transcribing of the audio where I
>could differentiate the two parts, piano and singing. I am considering
>slowing the tempo down so there would be better separation of the notes
>when converting automatically so I could tell which are which. I would
>then delete the singing portion leaving only the piano part, bring the
>tempo back to normal and ad an audio track of her singing to the midi
>file. Sounds reasonable only I just started learning about this whole
>process and have little experience. I was hoping someone might have tried
>this with success already. Anyone try something like this, I'd like to
>hear about it. Thanks for your input and ideas.  Joe
>
>--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Terry Cutshall <terry.cutshall@...>
>wrote:
>>
>> Deep pockets indeed, they quoted me $1.00 per note!
>> Since Sony (Glen Gould) has deep pockets it makes since for them.
>> 
>> Terry
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Mark Fontana <mfontana@...> wrote:
>> 
>> > 
>> > Unfortunately, converting the sound of a performance (WAV) to the
>> > instructions describing how to produce that performance (MIDI) is a
>>very
>> > difficult task, and there is no software currently available that can
>>do
>> > the job in a fully-automatic way and produce results that sound good.
>> > Your recordings are especially problematic since they have singing
>>over
>> > the piano, and that is bound to confuse most tools.
>> > 
>> > Zenph Studios (http://www.zenph.com) has been producing MIDI files
>>from
>> > the great piano recordings of Art Tatum, Glenn Gould et al. using a
>> > proprietary process that likely involves using software tools to do
>>the
>> > initial analysis, producing a rough musical template which is then
>> > iteratively refined by skilled musicians who constantly compare the
>> > reconstruction with the original recording. This is very
>>time-consuming
>> > but currently the only way to achieve accurate-sounding results.
>> > 
>> > If you have deep pockets, you might be able to hire Zenph to work on
>> > your private recordings. The only other solution yielding worthwhile
>> > results would be to have a pianist record hand-played MIDI files for
>> > your Disklavier that sound sufficiently like your mother's playing.
>> > 
>> > Mark Fontana
>> > 
>> > On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 05:07 +0000, joegugs2 wrote:
>> > 
>> > > I am trying to convert songs of my deceased mother playing the piano
>> > > and singing from 1975 into a midi song file that will play on my
>> > > Disklavier e3 piano. I digitized her songs from cassette tapes
>> > > into .wav and .mp3 song files. AmazingMidi and Intelliscore have
>> > > produced unusable midi files that are not even close to the
>>original.
>> > > Any suggestions would be most appreciated as it is my dream to have
>>my
>> > > mom playing my piano for me again. Joe
>> > 
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
>
>To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
>moderator, send it to:
>disklavier-owner@...
>
>To reach our group's web site go to:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
>
>THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
>If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
>mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.
>That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
>If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
>disklavier-unsubscribe@...
>
>Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
>disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
>http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-09 by joegugs2

Have you worked with Intelliscore? I tried both the Polyphonic and Ensemble version without much success. I may need to understand the details of using some of the settings on these programs to get a better rendering of the notes as what I have so far doesn't sound anything like the original piano part. Not sure what I'm doing wrong if anything. 

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Peter Giles <pgiles@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Joe,
> 
> I'm not totally sure about this, but wouldn't IntelliScore serve your
> purpose here? It does convert audio files into MIDI files. It also
> eliminates vocal performances from instrumental tracks.
> 
> Peter
> 
> On 11/8/10 2:43 PM, "joegugs2" <gugs2001@...> wrote:
> 
> >I was afraid this might be the case. Sure, I could play along with the
> >audio myself and record my performance then add the singing audio to it,
> >but it wouldn't be the same. It seems like it shouldn't be that
> >difficult, if only I could get a good transcribing of the audio where I
> >could differentiate the two parts, piano and singing. I am considering
> >slowing the tempo down so there would be better separation of the notes
> >when converting automatically so I could tell which are which. I would
> >then delete the singing portion leaving only the piano part, bring the
> >tempo back to normal and ad an audio track of her singing to the midi
> >file. Sounds reasonable only I just started learning about this whole
> >process and have little experience. I was hoping someone might have tried
> >this with success already. Anyone try something like this, I'd like to
> >hear about it. Thanks for your input and ideas.  Joe
> >
> >--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Terry Cutshall <terry.cutshall@>
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> Deep pockets indeed, they quoted me $1.00 per note!
> >> Since Sony (Glen Gould) has deep pockets it makes since for them.
> >> 
> >> Terry
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Mark Fontana <mfontana@> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > 
> >> > Unfortunately, converting the sound of a performance (WAV) to the
> >> > instructions describing how to produce that performance (MIDI) is a
> >>very
> >> > difficult task, and there is no software currently available that can
> >>do
> >> > the job in a fully-automatic way and produce results that sound good.
> >> > Your recordings are especially problematic since they have singing
> >>over
> >> > the piano, and that is bound to confuse most tools.
> >> > 
> >> > Zenph Studios (http://www.zenph.com) has been producing MIDI files
> >>from
> >> > the great piano recordings of Art Tatum, Glenn Gould et al. using a
> >> > proprietary process that likely involves using software tools to do
> >>the
> >> > initial analysis, producing a rough musical template which is then
> >> > iteratively refined by skilled musicians who constantly compare the
> >> > reconstruction with the original recording. This is very
> >>time-consuming
> >> > but currently the only way to achieve accurate-sounding results.
> >> > 
> >> > If you have deep pockets, you might be able to hire Zenph to work on
> >> > your private recordings. The only other solution yielding worthwhile
> >> > results would be to have a pianist record hand-played MIDI files for
> >> > your Disklavier that sound sufficiently like your mother's playing.
> >> > 
> >> > Mark Fontana
> >> > 
> >> > On Mon, 2010-11-08 at 05:07 +0000, joegugs2 wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > > I am trying to convert songs of my deceased mother playing the piano
> >> > > and singing from 1975 into a midi song file that will play on my
> >> > > Disklavier e3 piano. I digitized her songs from cassette tapes
> >> > > into .wav and .mp3 song files. AmazingMidi and Intelliscore have
> >> > > produced unusable midi files that are not even close to the
> >>original.
> >> > > Any suggestions would be most appreciated as it is my dream to have
> >>my
> >> > > mom playing my piano for me again. Joe
> >> > 
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >To Post a message to the group, send it to:   disklavier@...
> >
> >To Post a private message to Todd Muncy, the group's founder and
> >moderator, send it to:
> >disklavier-owner@...
> >
> >To reach our group's web site go to:
> >http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier
> >
> >THINKING OF LEAVING THE GROUP?
> >If you are thinking of unsubcribing because you are getting too much
> >mail, go the the web site and change your email delivery option instead.
> >That will fix the problem, while maintaining your access to the group.
> >If you insist on leaving us completely send a blank email to:
> >disklavier-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >Know someone who wants to join?  Have them send a blank email to:
> >disklavier-subscribe@... or give them this link:
> >http://Yahoogroups.com/group/disklavier/join
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [disklavier] Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-09 by Carol Beigel

There may be some hope for you.  A new product out of Germany is Melodyne 
Editor from celemony. 
http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=products_editor  It has been years 
in the making and keeps morphing as to its packaging.  It is an polyphonic 
audio editor that works like MIDI using its new Direct Note Access 
technology.  It is used in recording studios to change an audio tone.  For 
example, if you have a trio of people singing and someone is off slightly on 
a note, you can go in and isolate that voice and move it to the proper pitch 
just like you edit a midi file.  There is a free 30 day trial and the cost 
is about $349.

Also in today's world there is software available to slow down the audio and 
still retain the pitch.  One program I have used is Slo Gold (?) from 
www.pgmusic.com in Canada.  For all I know, the Melodyne Editor will also do 
this.

Most of the products out there that convert audio to midi work on monophonic 
sounds - voice, flute, guitar, etc.  Piano music however is polyphonic 
because of the harmonics generaterated, i.e. a note played generates not 
only the fundamental, but the octave, 12th partial, etc.

The technology is slowing getting there.  Just 10 years ago, this was 
thought to be an impossible task.

Carol Beigel

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "joegugs2" <gugs2001@...>
To: <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 11:06 PM
Subject: [disklavier] Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files


> Have you worked with Intelliscore? I tried both the Polyphonic and 
> Ensemble version without much success. I may need to understand the 
> details of using some of the settings on these programs to get a better 
> rendering of the notes as what I have so far doesn't sound anything like 
> the original piano part. Not sure what I'm doing wrong if anything.
>
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Peter Giles <pgiles@...> wrote:
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I'm not totally sure about this, but wouldn't IntelliScore serve your
>> purpose here? It does convert audio files into MIDI files. It also
>> eliminates vocal performances from instrumental tracks.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> On 11/8/10 2:43 PM, "joegugs2" <gugs2001@...> wrote:
>>
>> >I was afraid this might be the case. Sure, I could play along with the
>> >audio myself and record my performance then add the singing audio to it,
>> >but it wouldn't be the same. It seems like it shouldn't be that
>> >difficult, if only I could get a good transcribing of the audio where I
>> >could differentiate the two parts, piano and singing. I am considering
>> >slowing the tempo down so there would be better separation of the notes
>> >when converting automatically so I could tell which are which. I would
>> >then delete the singing portion leaving only the piano part, bring the
>> >tempo back to normal and ad an audio track of her singing to the midi
>> >file. Sounds reasonable only I just started learning about this whole
>> >process and have little experience. I was hoping someone might have 
>> >tried
>> >this with success already. Anyone try something like this, I'd like to
>> >hear about it. Thanks for your input and ideas.  Joe

Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-09 by wandamusic@aol.com

Why not try a sideways solution..
 
Your goal is to hear your mother playing on your disklavier.
 
Why not arrange string parts, bass, etc and play her complete audio as is,  
along with your arrangement on the disklavier.
 
It would be sort of like Natalie Cole recording with her dad. Using some  
old, some new, and creating a new work  that has the old   there  too.
 
;-)  

Blessings,

Wanda

Re: [disklavier] Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-09 by George Kopeczky

I use (Celemony) Melodyne to convert audio files of smoking-hot jazz performances (from CD, Youtube, wherever) to MIDI. Just for the purpose of jazz study (the reason I collect Disklavier jazz sequences too, even though I don't own a Disklavier.)

Melodyne's conversion is not perfect, you get about 40% of the played notes (sometimes entire chords get skipped, as in the case of Chick Corea's Duet Suite), but it converts enough notes that one can figure out the other 60% with a good proficiency of jazz harmony.

I'm not totally proficient (yet), so I figured out only 59% of Duet Suite; there is one awesome single chord that just eludes me, in spite of knowing the chords before and after it.
Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- On Mon, 11/8/10, Peter Giles wrote:

From: Peter Giles
Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files
To: "disklavier@yahoogroups.com"
Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 11:41 AM

Joe,

I'm not totally sure about this, but wouldn't IntelliScore serve your
purpose here? It does convert audio files into MIDI files. It also
eliminates vocal performances from instrumental tracks.

Peter

Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files

2010-11-10 by joegugs2

I can't thank all of you guys enough for all of the suggestions. Looks like a have a winter project. I'll keep you posted on my progress. Peace, Joe G

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, George Kopeczky <mrdelurk@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I use (Celemony) Melodyne to convert audio files of smoking-hot jazz performances (from CD, Youtube, wherever) to MIDI. Just for the purpose of jazz study (the reason I collect Disklavier jazz sequences too, even though I don't own a Disklavier.)
> Melodyne's conversion is not perfect, you get about 40% of the played notes (sometimes entire chords get skipped, as in the case of Chick Corea's Duet Suite), but it converts enough notes that one can figure out the other 60% with a good proficiency of jazz harmony.
> I'm not totally proficient (yet), so I figured out only 59% of Duet Suite; there is one awesome single chord that just eludes me, in spite of knowing the chords before and after it.  
> --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Peter Giles <pgiles@...> wrote:
> 
> From: Peter Giles <pgiles@...>
> Subject: Re: [disklavier] Re: Problem conveting .wav to .mid files
> To: "disklavier@yahoogroups.com" <disklavier@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 11:41 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>       
>       
>       Joe,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not totally sure about this, but wouldn't IntelliScore serve your
> 
> purpose here? It does convert audio files into MIDI files. It also
> 
> eliminates vocal performances from instrumental tracks.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter
>

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