Disklavier

I'm just starting to use my new DC3M4 as a MIDI controller, and I'm finding that I can't get high enough velocity output.  Is there any way to adjust the velocity curve of the Disklavier's output?  (No matter how hard I press the key, I can't get velocity higher than the 90's.)  Is 100 the maximum velocity output of a non-PRO Disklavier?

You cannot change the velocity curve in the Disklavier.  If you are wanting higher velocity output,  I suggest the purchase of the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter. 

Bill Brandom

"johnny.robot" <johnny.robot@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I'm just starting to use my new DC3M4 as a MIDI controller, and I'm finding that I can't get high enough velocity output.  Is there any way to adjust the velocity curve of the Disklavier's output?  (No matter how hard I press the key, I can't get velocity higher than the 90's.)  Is 100 the maximum velocity output of a non-PRO Disklavier?
>

Bill - Thanks for telling me about the MIDI Solutions hardware option.  I almost ordered it, but wow, with a Mac, it is not ideal, since it requires a traditional MIDI interface (I use USB MIDI now), and it can only be programmed via Windows 7.

I found a software solution called MIDI Pipe, a Mac app that lets you "hijack" the MIDI data and change the velocity curve via software before routing the MIDI data on to your sequencer.  Totally did the trick.

I'm still at a loss as to why the Disklavier would max out at an output velocity of 100.  That's ridiculous.
-John


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Bill Brandom <bill.brandom03@...> wrote:

>
> You cannot change the velocity curve in the Disklavier.  If you are wanting higher velocity output,  I suggest the purchase of the MIDI Solutions Velocity Converter. 
> 
> Bill Brandom
> 
> "johnny.robot" <johnny.robot@...> wrote:
> 
> >I'm just starting to use my new DC3M4 as a MIDI controller, and I'm finding that I can't get high enough velocity output.  Is there any way to adjust the velocity curve of the Disklavier's output?  (No matter how hard I press the key, I can't get velocity higher than the 90's.)  Is 100 the maximum velocity output of a non-PRO Disklavier?
> >
>

Hi, 

I also use a new DC3M4(pro), and yes, there are settings ... 
I have connected my DK to my MacBook with Logic (mastering software) and it works perfectly, IN & OUT.

With software do you use ?
Do you connect your DK with MIDI or with USB ?

Emma



--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "johnny.robot" <johnny.robot@...> wrote:

>
> I'm just starting to use my new DC3M4 as a MIDI controller, and I'm finding that I can't get high enough velocity output.  Is there any way to adjust the velocity curve of the Disklavier's output?  (No matter how hard I press the key, I can't get velocity higher than the 90's.)  Is 100 the maximum velocity output of a non-PRO Disklavier?
>

Hi Emma -
Official word from Yamaha is that the velocity curve can't be modified.  I don't have a pro, but I wish more and more that I'd waited the extra couple of months for one.  The pro reportedly has full velocity range up to 127.

I ended up installing an app called MidiPipe that "hijacks" the incoming MIDI (which I send/receive via USB) and applies a different curve -- in this case, changing the velocity to 130% of what it receives.  This works fine for my purposes, which is to use the Disklavier to control the Vienna Symphonic Library.  (If I were recording the piano itself as MIDI, I'd turn off the MidiPipe software.)

I kind of can't believe that the non-Pro model maxes the output velocity at 100, when MIDI goes to 127, but that does seem to be the case, and Yamaha has basically confirmed as much.
-John


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "Emma" <aiglewild@...> wrote:

>
> Hi, 
> 
> I also use a new DC3M4(pro), and yes, there are settings ... 
> I have connected my DK to my MacBook with Logic (mastering software) and it works perfectly, IN & OUT.
> 
> With software do you use ?
> Do you connect your DK with MIDI or with USB ?
> 
> Emma
> 
> 
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "johnny.robot" <johnny.robot@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm just starting to use my new DC3M4 as a MIDI controller, and I'm finding that I can't get high enough velocity output.  Is there any way to adjust the velocity curve of the Disklavier's output?  (No matter how hard I press the key, I can't get velocity higher than the 90's.)  Is 100 the maximum velocity output of a non-PRO Disklavier?
> >
>

Hi John,

Actually, the Disklavier Pro doesn't use the full range either.  It maps 
the typical dynamic range of the piano to a MIDI velocity range of about 
25-100, the same as any other Disklavier, I guess to maintain 
compatibility with content created for the earliest models dating to the 
late 1980s.

The Pro increases the note velocity resolution by extending the 7-bit 
MIDI velocities with three additional least-significant bits (specified 
in a MIDI stream using Yamaha's "XP" mode extensions).

Since each note event in an XP mode stream is represented by multiple 
MIDI events whose order is important, it has been a pain to edit XP 
performances in conventional sequencing software.  The "RePerform" 
editing software available from Zenph was created to make this task 
easier.

My understanding is that the Pro can record and reproduce a slightly 
wider dynamic range that extends a little higher and lower than the 
standard range of a standard Disklavier.  But the standard range maps to 
the same MIDI velocities as on non-Pro Disklaviers, so the effective 
resolution of a Disklavier Pro isn't quite the full 10 bits advertised, 
just like the effective resolution of a non-Pro Disklavier isn't quite 
the full 7 bits of the MIDI spec.  The Pro's three additional bits of 
velocity data just add intermediate steps to the limited velocity range 
that Yamaha uses, allowing it to be represented with 8x greater 
precision.  So instead of 25-100, you'd have a usable velocity range of 
about 200-800 on a Disklavier Pro.

Non-Pro Disklaviers can ignore the three additional bits and use just 
the normal 7-bit MIDI velocities from a Pro recording, thus achieving 
compatibility between Pro and non-Pro instruments.

So John, I don't think having a Pro would improve your situation much.  
You would still need to use external hardware or software to remap the 
velocities.

Mark Fontana

On Tue, Aug 02, 2011 at 08:47:32PM -0000, johnny.robot wrote:

> Official word from Yamaha is that the velocity curve can't be 
> modified.  I don't have a pro, but I wish more and more that I'd 
> waited the extra couple of months for one.  The pro reportedly has 
> full velocity range up to 127.
>  ... I kind of can't believe that the non-Pro model maxes the output 
> velocity at 100, when MIDI goes to 127, but that does seem to be the 
> case, and Yamaha has basically confirmed as much. -John

Hi Mark!
This is, as always, very informative.

I'm surprised, since the Disklavier runs off of Linux (correct?), that there aren't more hacks for it.  I'd have thought there'd be some tool that could get into the deep, dark settings of the firmware, and change something like the velocity range and who knows what else.  I guess there are so few Disklaviers out there anyway that the overlap between those owners and people who also have tremendous programming knowledge is pretty limited.  Now that I think about it, though, other than tweaking something like the velocity curve, I don't know what hidden settings anybody would want to bother tweaking -- and other than me, I don't know of anybody who even wants to mess with the velocity curve.

I am a little relieved to hear that the Pro likely still caps the output velocity.  It's a bit irritating, particularly if it's just to maintain compatibility with old models.  Good sample libraries have 5-6+ different samples per note, all called based on velocity, so if I'm limited to velocity=100, I'm missing out on at least 20% of my available samples.  It seems that if the instrument is going to be velocity sensitive, it should offer the full MIDI spec (well, within reason, of course).

Maybe I should just write quieter music.
-John


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Mark Fontana <mfontana@...> wrote:

>
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Actually, the Disklavier Pro doesn't use the full range either.  It maps 
> the typical dynamic range of the piano to a MIDI velocity range of about 
> 25-100, the same as any other Disklavier, I guess to maintain 
> compatibility with content created for the earliest models dating to the 
> late 1980s.
> 
> The Pro increases the note velocity resolution by extending the 7-bit 
> MIDI velocities with three additional least-significant bits (specified 
> in a MIDI stream using Yamaha's "XP" mode extensions).
> 
> Since each note event in an XP mode stream is represented by multiple 
> MIDI events whose order is important, it has been a pain to edit XP 
> performances in conventional sequencing software.  The "RePerform" 
> editing software available from Zenph was created to make this task 
> easier.
> 
> My understanding is that the Pro can record and reproduce a slightly 
> wider dynamic range that extends a little higher and lower than the 
> standard range of a standard Disklavier.  But the standard range maps to 
> the same MIDI velocities as on non-Pro Disklaviers, so the effective 
> resolution of a Disklavier Pro isn't quite the full 10 bits advertised, 
> just like the effective resolution of a non-Pro Disklavier isn't quite 
> the full 7 bits of the MIDI spec.  The Pro's three additional bits of 
> velocity data just add intermediate steps to the limited velocity range 
> that Yamaha uses, allowing it to be represented with 8x greater 
> precision.  So instead of 25-100, you'd have a usable velocity range of 
> about 200-800 on a Disklavier Pro.
> 
> Non-Pro Disklaviers can ignore the three additional bits and use just 
> the normal 7-bit MIDI velocities from a Pro recording, thus achieving 
> compatibility between Pro and non-Pro instruments.
> 
> So John, I don't think having a Pro would improve your situation much.  
> You would still need to use external hardware or software to remap the 
> velocities.
> 
> Mark Fontana
> 
> 
> On Tue, Aug 02, 2011 at 08:47:32PM -0000, johnny.robot wrote:
> 
> > Official word from Yamaha is that the velocity curve can't be 
> > modified.  I don't have a pro, but I wish more and more that I'd 
> > waited the extra couple of months for one.  The pro reportedly has 
> > full velocity range up to 127.
> >  ... I kind of can't believe that the non-Pro model maxes the output 
> > velocity at 100, when MIDI goes to 127, but that does seem to be the 
> > case, and Yamaha has basically confirmed as much. -John
>

Good morning, everyone.

Casual loud playing on a Disklavier will yield note-on velocities in the 90s. Very loud concert playing will yield velocities between 100 and 110. It is rare to see velocities much higher than that, although I have seen velocities in Piano-e-Competition files get up to about 120.

I don't know why the Disklavier engineers have employed the velocity scale that they chose. However, I can say that it makes sense to have built some headroom into the scale.

For example, let's say we create a velocity scale in which the loudest note that YOU can play is 127 (the highest MIDI note-on velocity). Isn't it likely that there is someone in the world who can accelerate a hammer at still a higher velocity? And if so, isn't it likely that there is someone who can create an even higher velocity than that?

In order to accommodate a wide range of possible hammer velocities, normal playing should never reach the top of the scale.

As a result of having headroom in the velocity scale, the number of velocity increments used to record normal playing is well under 100--unless, of course, you have a Disklavier Pro whose full range is 0 to 1023.

Regards,
PianoBench

www.georgelitterst.com
www.timewarptech.com
www.zenph.com

On Jul 22, 2011, at 3:33 PM, johnny.robot wrote:

> I'm just starting to use my new DC3M4 as a MIDI controller, and I'm finding that I can't get high enough velocity output. Is there any way to adjust the velocity curve of the Disklavier's output? (No matter how hard I press the key, I can't get velocity higher than the 90's.) Is 100 the maximum velocity output of a non-PRO Disklavier?
> 
>