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I've just joined

I've just joined

2011-09-09 by Jeff

Hi,
I just joined the group. I also just purchased a Yamaha UGS1 (silent grand). Does anyone know if the 9-foot concert grand samples are the same that are loaded onto current disklaviers? I am trying to figure out if my hardware is buggy because I experience some apparent problems with the sustain pedal. The easiest way to test this would be to listen to another UGS1 and see if they are the same, but piano stores virtually never have them in stock (special order only). Thus, if the samples were the same as those on the disklavier, I could at least compare to an disklavier, which often ARE in stock.

Thanks.

Re: [disklavier] I've just joined

2011-09-09 by Bill Brandom

Hi Jeff,

It sounds like you purchased a U1SG 48" Silent upright piano. This is a very nice Silent Piano. The piano sample in the SG series of Yamaha Silent Pianos (grand and upright) is not the same as the sample in the Mark IV Disklavier. The SG sample is a much newer sample and to me, sounds better than the sample in the Disklavier. I don't know what problems you are having with the sustain pedal of your piano, but your dealer's technician should be able to adjust it to correct any problem it has.

Bill
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On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Jeff <jeffbjorck@...> wrote:

Hi,
I just joined the group. I also just purchased a Yamaha UGS1 (silent grand). Does anyone know if the 9-foot concert grand samples are the same that are loaded onto current disklaviers? I am trying to figure out if my hardware is buggy because I experience some apparent problems with the sustain pedal. The easiest way to test this would be to listen to another UGS1 and see if they are the same, but piano stores virtually never have them in stock (special order only). Thus, if the samples were the same as those on the disklavier, I could at least compare to an disklavier, which often ARE in stock.

Thanks.


Re: I've just joined

2011-09-09 by Bill Brandom

Hi Jeff,

It sounds like you purchased a U1SG 48" Silent upright piano. This is a very nice Silent Piano. The piano sample in the SG series of Yamaha Silent Pianos (grand and upright) is not the same as the sample in the Mark IV Disklavier. The SG sample is a much newer sample and to me, sounds better than the sample in the Disklavier. I don't know what problems you are having with the sustain pedal of your piano, but your dealer's technician should be able to adjust it to correct any problem it has.

Bill Brandom

Re: [disklavier] I've just joined

2011-09-09 by athomik

Another thing you could try:
1. Switch off the piano
2. Make sure the keys are all level at their rest position
3. Switch the piano back on, making sure that none of the keys are touched until the piano is up & running (you may be able to hear a slight click from the piano when it has finished booting up).

The reason for this procedure is that many Yamaha Hybrid Pianos check the key position on boot up to get a reference point for calibrating the sensors. If any of the keys are not in their normal rest position during start up, the processor can lose track of where the keys are when you're playing and may respond incorrectly.

If the piano still has a problem after this, follow Bill's advice and get a technician to have a look at the piano.

athomik

On Sep 9 2011, Bill Brandom wrote:

>Hi Jeff,
>
>It sounds like you purchased a U1SG 48" Silent upright piano. This is a very
>nice Silent Piano. The piano sample in the SG series of Yamaha Silent Pianos
>(grand and upright) is not the same as the sample in the Mark IV Disklavier.
>The SG sample is a much newer sample and to me, sounds better than the
>sample in the Disklavier. I don't know what problems you are having with the
>sustain pedal of your piano, but your dealer's technician should be able to
>adjust it to correct any problem it has.
>
>Bill
>
>On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Jeff wrote:
>
>> **
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> I just joined the group. I also just purchased a Yamaha UGS1 (silent
>> grand). Does anyone know if the 9-foot concert grand samples are the same
>> that are loaded onto current disklaviers? I am trying to figure out if my
>> hardware is buggy because I experience some apparent problems with the
>> sustain pedal. The easiest way to test this would be to listen to another
>> UGS1 and see if they are the same, but piano stores virtually never have
>> them in stock (special order only). Thus, if the samples were the same as
>> those on the disklavier, I could at least compare to an disklavier, which
>> often ARE in stock.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: I've just joined

2011-09-09 by Jeff

Thanks Bill and athomik,

I appreciate your responses. The advice about not touching keys while it is booting up is good to know. Also glad, Bill, that you like the samples so well.

My question is not about the mechanical action of the sustain pedal. Rather, it is about the sound of the samples activated by the sustain (and/or by holding a note down). Let me explain.

One way to think about each digital sample for each note is to consider that the sound comes from a combination of two sounds. First, there is the primary sound from the note itself (its own strings). Second, there is the secondary sound from all the other sampled notes echoing when sustain is engaged. In real life, the primary note sound diminishes a bit more quickly than the secondary echoes, which fade out last.

Now, on the lower notes of my new USG1 (e.g., C below middle C), the piano sample functions similarly to acoustic, albeit a bit shorter.  That is, the primary note sound lasts for about 3 seconds, and the sustained sound continues on for quite a while thereafter (~30 sec, compared to ~45 seconds for the acoustic sound of the same note). 

On higher notes, however, this changes (e.g., C above middle C). In this upper register, however, the primary sound of the note seems to die off prematurely (only about 1.5 seconds) as though dampened, leaving only the sample of the sustained echo from all the other strings. The total sample lasts about 15 seconds (compared to 30 seconds for the acoustic sound of the same sustained note). 

 In the even higher notes (e.g., two octaves higher), the entire sample (while the sustain pedal is pressed) only lasts for about 4 seconds and seems even more strongly dampened, almost clipping off. In fact, these notes sustain longer when the note is simply held down with no sustain pedal.

Finally, there is one other unusual sound. The A above middle C has a pronounced vibrato (almost wa-wa) after a few seconds of sustain.

My concern (thank for your patience reading this!) is that I wonder if there is something defective with how my piano is playing the samples. I find it hard to believe that Yamaha would not have invested a tiny bit more time into making these notes sustain more realistically, particularly when the other samples (e.g., vibraphone, strings, etc.) do not seem to die off anywhere near as quickly.
The obvious easiest way for me to test this would be to play another new UGS1, but they seem to always be special order items, never sitting in a show room.  Hence, I was hoping that the sample might be the same in a disklavier (which often DO sit in show rooms). My final hope is that someone truly familiar with the UGS1 samples could tell me if I am describing the samples as they exist in ALL UGS1 pianos, or if there might be something wrong with mine.

Keep in mind that a casual listener would likely not detect any of these things. However, my personal piano technician agreed with my assessment. He thinks that this just might be the nature of the samples Yamaha uses, but that surprises me given their outstanding reputation.

Thanks for whatever insights you (or anyone!) might have.

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