Disklavier

I've done some searching around the forum, but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for, so I hope someone can answer these questions, or point me to the answers that are undoubtedly here somewhere. 

I have an 11-year-old DC3A with the original DKC55RCD controller. I've just moved it into my new wife's home and would like to be able to control it remotely from a desktop computer and/or other wireless devices. 

In my old home, the Disklavier was connected via MIDI to my laptop, and when I was so inclined I could control it from my home office with a remote viewing program that took control of the laptop from my office desktop. It was cumbersome, and I didn't use it often, so I'm not inclined to go back to a similar setup.

That was years ago, and I'm hoping there are newer and better ways to do it now. 

My primary interest is the ability to play standard MIDI files and playlists that would be stored on the network. Playing PianoSoft files or other special formats is not a top priority. I have zero interest in Yamaha's Internet Radio service, but might have slight interest in a similar service that was free. However, an Internet connection just for that purpose is not a high priority.  

I know about the DKC-850, and I'm considering it, but it seems a little pricey for what I'm hoping to do.  

Here are my questions: 

1. Is there a way, using the DKC55RCD, to play MIDI files and playlists using a networked desktop, laptop, tablet, and/or smart phone? We have an iPad, an Android smartphone (Droid 3), and plan to get an Android tablet. It would be nice if there were apps for both OSes, but since we have both we could live with one or the other if we had to. Android is my preference.

2. If the answer to #1 is no, or not easily or cheaply, does the DKC-850 definitely allow this? I've read through the literature and many posts, but it's not clear to me that this is is one of its capabilities. The brochures say a lot of the Internet Radio, but not so much about controlling the piano from other devices. 

3. If I get a DKC-850, does it need to be calibrated to my piano? Is this something I can do myself, or does it require a technician visit? 

4. If I don't get a new controller, should I re-calibrate the DKC55RCD after having moved the piano? Again, can I do it myself? And is calibration best done before or after tuning?

Thanks for your advice.

I would still go with the DKC-850 (shop the internet, I'm sure there are some dealers that would give you a good price if they have extra inventory).  I've installed mine on a MkII XG Pro as an "add-on" to my original controller.  I can access my entire song collection from:
1. my laptop with a usb-to-midi cable (directly to the back of the DKC-850) and various midi software (I like Anvil myself) or #2 below
2. my desktop pc via wireless remote and Kevin Gogoway's DKVController software
3. from my iPhone with the free app (I believe there's one for Android)
4. my wireless network storage drive where I can drag and drop any song file into the 850's internal flash memory
5. from a 500GB "always-on" USB drive plugged into the 850 were I keep over 9000 of my favorite songs
6. from the internal memory of either controller (old controller for my PRO-XP music)
7. and of course, floppies, CDs, and midi media

I can also control the Disklavier from 1-3 above as well as each controller.  It's the best of both worlds and the only thing I don't have (although it's an easy cable change-out) is internet radio (which I wasn't that impressed with anyway).

I added the 850 to my piano in less than 30mins. The instructions were very clear and there are free new updates directly from Yamaha that you can download to allow for new features.  In addition, it required no re-calibration of my piano.  Because I didn't want either controller under the piano keyboard, I just placed them in a small cabinet under the piano.  

Hope this helps, happy listening 


  




--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "jthyder" <jhyder@...> wrote:

>
> I've done some searching around the forum, but haven't found exactly what I'm looking for, so I hope someone can answer these questions, or point me to the answers that are undoubtedly here somewhere. 
> 
> I have an 11-year-old DC3A with the original DKC55RCD controller. I've just moved it into my new wife's home and would like to be able to control it remotely from a desktop computer and/or other wireless devices. 
> 
> In my old home, the Disklavier was connected via MIDI to my laptop, and when I was so inclined I could control it from my home office with a remote viewing program that took control of the laptop from my office desktop. It was cumbersome, and I didn't use it often, so I'm not inclined to go back to a similar setup.
> 
> That was years ago, and I'm hoping there are newer and better ways to do it now. 
> 
> My primary interest is the ability to play standard MIDI files and playlists that would be stored on the network. Playing PianoSoft files or other special formats is not a top priority. I have zero interest in Yamaha's Internet Radio service, but might have slight interest in a similar service that was free. However, an Internet connection just for that purpose is not a high priority.  
> 
> I know about the DKC-850, and I'm considering it, but it seems a little pricey for what I'm hoping to do.  
> 
> Here are my questions: 
> 
> 1. Is there a way, using the DKC55RCD, to play MIDI files and playlists using a networked desktop, laptop, tablet, and/or smart phone? We have an iPad, an Android smartphone (Droid 3), and plan to get an Android tablet. It would be nice if there were apps for both OSes, but since we have both we could live with one or the other if we had to. Android is my preference.
> 
> 2. If the answer to #1 is no, or not easily or cheaply, does the DKC-850 definitely allow this? I've read through the literature and many posts, but it's not clear to me that this is is one of its capabilities. The brochures say a lot of the Internet Radio, but not so much about controlling the piano from other devices. 
> 
> 3. If I get a DKC-850, does it need to be calibrated to my piano? Is this something I can do myself, or does it require a technician visit? 
> 
> 4. If I don't get a new controller, should I re-calibrate the DKC55RCD after having moved the piano? Again, can I do it myself? And is calibration best done before or after tuning?
> 
> Thanks for your advice.
>

--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carol Beigel <carol@...> wrote:
>
> You certainly have a wonderful piano!   

You should know, Carol. You did the first calibration and tune when I bought it about 10 years ago.


>I recommend that a Disklavier tech
> or your new piano tuner who knows how to service a Disklavier, run the
> maintenance mode and make sure the pedals are properly adjusted.  This
> should be done before the piano is tuned, otherwise the louder stages of
> the keyboard calibration can knock out a fine tuning.

I was planning on calling you to arrange a calibration and tune. It was just moved into my new home last week, so I guess we should wait a few weeks to let it acclimate to its new surroundings?


> The only Disklaviers that can be controlled wirelessly are the MarkIVs or
> the DKC850 (E3) upgrade control box.  

That's what I gathered from your Web site, but I wasn't 100% sure.


You still need an internet connection
> and an ethernet cable attached between the DKC850 and your home router.

But I can use a wifi adapter, right? It doesn't have to be hard wired, does it?


>  The DKC850 can be controlled wirelessly with an iPhone or iPad.

No Android app?


> Someone did tell me that years ago they bought a wireless MIDI Jet Pro from
> a Canadian company at
> http://www.midiworks.ca/index.php/products/category/8/wireless-midi-productsthat
> worked well on their MarkIIXG.  It that worked on a MarkIIXG it should
> work on a MarkIII.

Thanks. I may look into this.
 

> Your MarkIII should have 16 memory disks of 1.44 megabites each.  Each
> memory disk can store up to 99 song titles.  Even the DKC850 has a limit of
> 99 albums, or 99 songs per album, or 99 songs in a single playlist, or 99
> songs in your FromPC folder.
 
So the DXC-850 can't directly play files or playlists that are located on a remote PC? They have to be copied to the 850's memory? But I can do that via the network, right? 


> If you buy the DKC850 for your Mark III, it REPLACES your current control
> box.  You would also need to purchase for about $150 the Yamaha USB floppy
> disk drive.  

What do I need the floppy drive for? PianoSoft disks? All the regular MIDI files I have on floppy are on my computer as well. Can't I just copy them to the 850? If I don't want to play PianoSoft material, can I do without the floppy? 

Has anyone come up with a way to copy PianoSoft files to a CD or thumb drive?


>There are no "sales prices" on the DKC850 as they are only
> available from Yamaha dealers.

Yes, I know, and I'm a rather peeved about it. Like many people, my financial situation today is not quite as rosy as it was when I bought the piano ten years ago. $1,500 or so for an upgrade that, as other posters have mentioned, is not an unalloyed improvement, to say nothing of $150 for a floppy drive that should cost a tenth of that, is causing me some hesitation and concern. 

When I first heard about the DKC-850 in 2010, the Jordan Kitts store in Lutherville, MD, was offering it at about $200 off the regular price. But they have closed since then, and other Jordan Kitts stores I called aren't offering that price now. 

A few more questions.

1. One of the disappointments I've had about the Disklavier from Day One has been that even at the softest setting, playback is just too loud. Other player piano systems I've seen can playback softly enough to allow conversation in the same room. Does the DKC-850 improve that, or is there some other way I can achieve that with the DKC-850 or my current controller? 

2. Another disappointment I have with the Disklavier is the grand piano voice it has for Silent Piano mode. There is a range of an octave and a half that sounds distinctly like an electric piano instead of a real acoustic piano. It is inferior to the grand piano voice of the Yamaha electric piano I owned before the Disklavier. Does the grand piano voice of the DKC-850 have a nice, rich sound throughout the keyboard? 

And repeating one of my earlier questions: 

3. If we calibrate with the existing controller, will it have to be redone if/when I buy a DKC-850?

Thanks.

Hi, I always defer to Carol on these amazing instruments and can't thank her enough for the wonderful contributions she's made to this helpful forum.  I can tell you a few experiences I've had with my DKC850 which I hope will help you and possibly others.

1. Wifi- I use a wireless network bridge connected to the 850 so I don't have to run an Ethernet cable from my modem/router to the piano.  I use a Sonos Bridge, but there are others you can find at Newegg.com or Bestbuy that should work (there should still be some entries on here from folks who have also used other product so they don't have to lay cables around the house).  While I know the DKC850 manual says a direct cable is required, I've had zero problems with using a bridge in the last year.  

2. file limitations:  On page 94 of the DKC850 users manual, it states that you are limited to 999 songs PER play list/album, and 99 total albums for general storage (like on a USB thumb-drive or usb hard drive (which the 850 has 2 ports for).  For the internal 850 memory (which is for storing songs and for storing songs/albums you drag and drop into the 850 storage ("PC to DKC") is really limited by the 128mg internal flash memory limitations. So depending on song/file size (big midi files and/or XP music from Pro pianos, e-competition) you may only be able to fit say 100 songs in 4-5 albums.   I currently use a usb hard drive with 91 albums and most have anywhere between 10 songs to 90 songs per album and have had NO problems accessing/playing each and every song (I only ran into problems when I went over 9800 total songs and it resulted in just a simple error message and once I reduced my list down, no problems)  My easy fix is just having another USB thumb drive with the rest of my favorite music and swap the two out when I want the other couple thousand of songs to play.  So I take what Yamaha is stating in their manual is that your total limitation is 99 albums, 99 play lists, and up to 999 songs per each.  

3. floppy: I've transferred all of my purchased pianosoft and self-recorded floppy music to my main PC and then cherry-picked songs I like and copied them to the USB drive I mentioned above.  I used RootARipper and other Disklavier utilities I found in the "files" section on here (and on Carol's awesome web site for utilities).  The only files I haven't figured out how to put on the USB drive are the CD audio files that play piano accompaniment (pianosoft + CD music).  I'd also love to find a way to do this with the audio CD songs that accompany Smart Pianosoft albums.  I can store the midi files that go with the CD (thus eliminating the need for a floppy disk drive) but not the CD audio music. 

I use Kevin Goroway's cool application on my PC to remotely control my piano without having to use the silly remote or control unit controls.  It supports all my play lists, volume level, and all the song data that is on the USB storage drive, internal 850 memory, CDs in the drive, and PC to 850 stored songs/albums (while his app was designed for the MarkIV and does not support all functions on the 850, it's still a great way to play all your songs from any computer you install it on in your home).  Or I just use the iPhone app.  

4. Volume and voices: The reason I kept both controllers (I still think you can use this as well on the Mark III per a conversation I had with Bill Brandon in Feb, (but you might want to call Yamaha's great tech team to confirm) is that I think the XG piano voice that came with my MKIIxg (sampled from the CF Yamaha grand) is far superior to the weak grand piano sample voice in the DKC850.  In fact all of the voices/accompaniments sound better coming out of my old controller.  Not sure what is shipped for voices in the Mark III though.  The other reason I kept both controllers (though the brochure say REPLACE for my piano as well), when Bill walked me through why I might want to use the "ADD" instead (and it was GREAT advice) is because my piano plays softer with the original controller than with the DKC850, but I was under some impression on an earlier post that the 3.1 update to the 850 allowed lower playing levels, haven't checked this out yet.  

cheers


--- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, "jthyder" <jhyder@...> wrote:

>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In disklavier@yahoogroups.com, Carol Beigel <carol@> wrote:
> >
> > You certainly have a wonderful piano!   
> 
> You should know, Carol. You did the first calibration and tune when I bought it about 10 years ago.
> 
> 
> >I recommend that a Disklavier tech
> > or your new piano tuner who knows how to service a Disklavier, run the
> > maintenance mode and make sure the pedals are properly adjusted.  This
> > should be done before the piano is tuned, otherwise the louder stages of
> > the keyboard calibration can knock out a fine tuning.
> 
> I was planning on calling you to arrange a calibration and tune. It was just moved into my new home last week, so I guess we should wait a few weeks to let it acclimate to its new surroundings?
> 
> 
> > The only Disklaviers that can be controlled wirelessly are the MarkIVs or
> > the DKC850 (E3) upgrade control box.  
> 
> That's what I gathered from your Web site, but I wasn't 100% sure.
> 
> 
> You still need an internet connection
> > and an ethernet cable attached between the DKC850 and your home router.
> 
> But I can use a wifi adapter, right? It doesn't have to be hard wired, does it?
> 
> 
> >  The DKC850 can be controlled wirelessly with an iPhone or iPad.
> 
> No Android app?
> 
> 
> > Someone did tell me that years ago they bought a wireless MIDI Jet Pro from
> > a Canadian company at
> > http://www.midiworks.ca/index.php/products/category/8/wireless-midi-productsthat
> > worked well on their MarkIIXG.  It that worked on a MarkIIXG it should
> > work on a MarkIII.
> 
> Thanks. I may look into this.
>  
> 
> > Your MarkIII should have 16 memory disks of 1.44 megabites each.  Each
> > memory disk can store up to 99 song titles.  Even the DKC850 has a limit of
> > 99 albums, or 99 songs per album, or 99 songs in a single playlist, or 99
> > songs in your FromPC folder.
>  
> So the DXC-850 can't directly play files or playlists that are located on a remote PC? They have to be copied to the 850's memory? But I can do that via the network, right? 
> 
> 
> > If you buy the DKC850 for your Mark III, it REPLACES your current control
> > box.  You would also need to purchase for about $150 the Yamaha USB floppy
> > disk drive.  
> 
> What do I need the floppy drive for? PianoSoft disks? All the regular MIDI files I have on floppy are on my computer as well. Can't I just copy them to the 850? If I don't want to play PianoSoft material, can I do without the floppy? 
> 
> Has anyone come up with a way to copy PianoSoft files to a CD or thumb drive?
> 
> 
> >There are no "sales prices" on the DKC850 as they are only
> > available from Yamaha dealers.
> 
> Yes, I know, and I'm a rather peeved about it. Like many people, my financial situation today is not quite as rosy as it was when I bought the piano ten years ago. $1,500 or so for an upgrade that, as other posters have mentioned, is not an unalloyed improvement, to say nothing of $150 for a floppy drive that should cost a tenth of that, is causing me some hesitation and concern. 
> 
> When I first heard about the DKC-850 in 2010, the Jordan Kitts store in Lutherville, MD, was offering it at about $200 off the regular price. But they have closed since then, and other Jordan Kitts stores I called aren't offering that price now. 
> 
> A few more questions.
> 
> 1. One of the disappointments I've had about the Disklavier from Day One has been that even at the softest setting, playback is just too loud. Other player piano systems I've seen can playback softly enough to allow conversation in the same room. Does the DKC-850 improve that, or is there some other way I can achieve that with the DKC-850 or my current controller? 
> 
> 2. Another disappointment I have with the Disklavier is the grand piano voice it has for Silent Piano mode. There is a range of an octave and a half that sounds distinctly like an electric piano instead of a real acoustic piano. It is inferior to the grand piano voice of the Yamaha electric piano I owned before the Disklavier. Does the grand piano voice of the DKC-850 have a nice, rich sound throughout the keyboard? 
> 
> And repeating one of my earlier questions: 
> 
> 3. If we calibrate with the existing controller, will it have to be redone if/when I buy a DKC-850?
> 
> Thanks.
>

It's nice to know the DKC850 works with a wireless bridge. I think you are correct about the capability to move files from your PC to the DKC850 as long as your computer can see them. However for those who have not copied their purchased Pianosoft music to computer hard drives, it will be necessary to use a USB floppy drive to copy those floppies into the memory of the DKC850.
Only the MarkIV with its hard drive will hold a limited number of audio CD files.

Carol