Disklavier

Hi All

First of all thank you Aaron for the info.

That was too easy by far. Now try this for size.

I tried to play the PianoSoft-Plus disk Star Wars number 00502000 on 
my Clavinova CVP 107.
The Backings worked fine but no Piano!!!!
The CVP 107 has "Guide Lights" which were lighting up, so there were 
notes there, but just no volume.
So it was dissasemble time.
Having just spent the last two hours poking about inside the file of 
Star Wars it now works. First of all I checked the Volume bytes Which 
are B0 (control channel 1) 07 (volume) 7F (127=Max) all ok then B0 0B 
7F which is the Expression ok there.

I then converted it to Midi and it played on the PC ok.
That then meant, it had to be one or more System Exclusive Messages.
I set about taking them out one by one until it worked. 
You will be pleased to know that I found it, but why it is there I 
don't know.

For those of you that know more than I do here is the offending 
System Exclusive Message.
FO 43 10 4C 08 00 04 7F
If I have understood the book right 
F0 43 10 4C is a XG Parameter Change  
08 00 is MIDI Parameter Change table (Multipart) 
04 is Rcv Channel 
7F =127 which is OFF.
I changed the 7F to 00 and there is the PIANO 

The piano part is now there but the backings drown it out, so I will 
have to rebalance it.

Midi Magic

Hi All

I have just had an idea as to why there was no piano.

If this disk is meant to be played using a Tone Generator or Sound 
Module then it makes sense to turn the piano part off (no sound) and 
pass the piano part through Midi to a Disklavier. You would then be 
able to adjust the volume. I have other PianoSoft-Plus disks that 
work fine. Any suggestions?

Midi Magic

Hello Everyone,

In a message dated 9/2/01 11:53:04 AM, midi.magic@... writes:

<< I tried to play the PianoSoft-Plus disk Star Wars number 00502000 on 
my Clavinova CVP 107.
The Backings worked fine but no Piano!!!!...>>

I am not sure exactly what is going on behind the scenes, but I believe that 
it boils down to this: Thus far, Yamaha Corporation of America has published 
all of its Disklavier floppy-disk software in a format that is playable on 
all models of Disklavier that have been sold in the US. This means that these 
performances have been recorded in E-SEQ format (rather than SMF) and have 
been published on double-density disks (rather than high-density disks).

There are older Disklaviers out there that did not have a built-in tone 
generator and whose owners subsequently added an external one, such as a 
TG-100 or MU50. Many of those older Disklaviers will play piano tracks on 
both the piano and the external tone generator unless something is done to 
mute the sound of the piano tracks on the tone generator.

I believe that many Yamaha Disklavier disks have been released over the years 
with a volume message (controller 7) that sets the volume of the piano tracks 
to 0. This message is ignored by the older Disklaviers but observed by the 
tone generators. Therefore, these disks play just fine on the older 
instruments: the piano parts play on the piano and the other parts play on 
the tone generator.

More recent model Disklaviers with the built-in tone generators have been 
engineered to respond to the volume message for the piano part but have been 
specially programmed to set the volume of the piano part to 100 when the MIDI 
message says to set it to 0. In other words, the newer Disklaviers with the 
internal tone generators also play these disks as intended.

Your message suggests that the issue is not the volume message but a system 
exclusive message. I am not familiar with this technique, but I presume that 
it is designed to address the same issue.

Although these Disklavier disks are technically compatible with the Clavinova 
CVP instruments (i.e. E-SEQ format, DD disks, et cetera), they were probably 
not intended to be played on them.

<<The piano part is now there but the backings drown it out, so I will 
have to rebalance it. >>

Because these disks were mastered on the Disklavier, the balances of the 
piano part relative to the accompaniment tracks will be different.

Regards,
PianoBench

Hi PianoBench

That,s what I thought in the end.  Still, it sounds so good that I 
will have to poke the volume bytes. Not being midi it will take a 
while. Still all I have to do is take them all down by the same 
amount and hope they don't change half way through.

Midi Magic


--- In disklavier@y..., PianoBench@a... wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> In a message dated 9/2/01 11:53:04 AM, midi.magic@i... writes:
> 
> << I tried to play the PianoSoft-Plus disk Star Wars number 
00502000 on 
> my Clavinova CVP 107.
> The Backings worked fine but no Piano!!!!...>>
> 
> I am not sure exactly what is going on behind the scenes, but I 
believe that 
> it boils down to this: Thus far, Yamaha Corporation of America has 
published 
> all of its Disklavier floppy-disk software in a format that is 
playable on 
> all models of Disklavier that have been sold in the US. This means 
that these 
> performances have been recorded in E-SEQ format (rather than SMF) 
and have 
> been published on double-density disks (rather than high-density 
disks).
> 
> There are older Disklaviers out there that did not have a built-in 
tone 
> generator and whose owners subsequently added an external one, such 
as a 
> TG-100 or MU50. Many of those older Disklaviers will play piano 
tracks on 
> both the piano and the external tone generator unless something is 
done to 
> mute the sound of the piano tracks on the tone generator.
> 
> I believe that many Yamaha Disklavier disks have been released over 
the years 
> with a volume message (controller 7) that sets the volume of the 
piano tracks 
> to 0. This message is ignored by the older Disklaviers but observed 
by the 
> tone generators. Therefore, these disks play just fine on the older 
> instruments: the piano parts play on the piano and the other parts 
play on 
> the tone generator.
> 
> More recent model Disklaviers with the built-in tone generators 
have been 
> engineered to respond to the volume message for the piano part but 
have been 
> specially programmed to set the volume of the piano part to 100 
when the MIDI 
> message says to set it to 0. In other words, the newer Disklaviers 
with the 
> internal tone generators also play these disks as intended.
> 
> Your message suggests that the issue is not the volume message but 
a system 
> exclusive message. I am not familiar with this technique, but I 
presume that 
> it is designed to address the same issue.
> 
> Although these Disklavier disks are technically compatible with the 
Clavinova 
> CVP instruments (i.e. E-SEQ format, DD disks, et cetera), they were 
probably 
> not intended to be played on them.
> 
> <<The piano part is now there but the backings drown it out, so I 
will 
> have to rebalance it. >>
> 
> Because these disks were mastered on the Disklavier, the balances 
of the 

> piano part relative to the accompaniment tracks will be different.
> 
> Regards,
> PianoBench

I may be a little dense, but the solution could be simple.  The piano keys 
play whatever is on Channels 1 and 2.  Since the disk was for Clavinova, 
there probably is no MIDI information on the channels that would play your 
piano keys.

While the disk is playing, if you push the -> you can see what is playing on 
the various MIDI channels.  The big 0s are the two channels that play your 
piano keys (and there are two of them, 00) one is for L and one is for R.  
With the cursor pointing at L=## just keep pushing the -> until one of the 
0's is playing a MIDI channel.  Then do the same thing with the cursor 
pointing to R=##.  Remember that ## means that nothing is set to play.

Anyway, your Clavinova disk is playing SOME piano sound, probably 1-8, so 
setting your Disklavier to L=Prg  and R=Prg should take care of it.  If you 
do this using the Function button, then MIDI settings, you don't have to do 
this for each song.

I don't really thing those program messages for the XG sounds are the 
problem.

Carol Beigel


>From: midi.magic@...
>Reply-To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>To: disklavier@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [disklavier] Star Wars
>Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:02:35 -0000
>
>Hi All
>
>I have just had an idea as to why there was no piano.
>
>If this disk is meant to be played using a Tone Generator or Sound
>Module then it makes sense to turn the piano part off (no sound) and
>pass the piano part through Midi to a Disklavier. You would then be
>able to adjust the volume. I have other PianoSoft-Plus disks that
>work fine. Any suggestions?
>
>Midi Magic
>


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Hi Carol

Can I refer you to my messeage 976
I have proved it to be the System Exclusive Message as stated.
I know what to do to fix it, just one byte 7F to 00 brings back the 
paino. My question was why is it there? I have found the same problem 
on another disk, Jesus Christ Superstar. This time it was only one 
song that turned the piano off. 
The piano part is on channel one, the guild lights light up and there 
are notes on the Piano-Roll display. It's all there, just the Rcv 
channel has been turned off with the 7F byte.
On my Clavinova pushing the -> does indeed show the channels that are 
playing also the voice, volume, pan etc. The piano is on channel 1.
The piano part is sent out via midi (on channel 1) from the Clavinova 
along with the backing parts on the other channels.
To sum up then, I know what's going on it's just why.
Why turn off just one song. 
Does anybody know? Can the end user turn off the piano part and save 
that back to the disk?

Midi Magic




--- In disklavier@y..., "Carol Beigel" <carolrpt@h...> wrote:
> I may be a little dense, but the solution could be simple.  The 
piano keys 
> play whatever is on Channels 1 and 2.  Since the disk was for 
Clavinova, 
> there probably is no MIDI information on the channels that would 
play your 
> piano keys.
> 
> While the disk is playing, if you push the -> you can see what is 
playing on 
> the various MIDI channels.  The big 0s are the two channels that 
play your 
> piano keys (and there are two of them, 00) one is for L and one is 
for R.  
> With the cursor pointing at L=## just keep pushing the -> until one 
of the 
> 0's is playing a MIDI channel.  Then do the same thing with the 
cursor 
> pointing to R=##.  Remember that ## means that nothing is set to 
play.
> 
> Anyway, your Clavinova disk is playing SOME piano sound, probably 1-
8, so 
> setting your Disklavier to L=Prg  and R=Prg should take care of 
it.  If you 
> do this using the Function button, then MIDI settings, you don't 
have to do 
> this for each song.
> 
> I don't really thing those program messages for the XG sounds are 
the 
> problem.
> 
> Carol Beigel
> 
> 
> >From: midi.magic@i...
> >Reply-To: disklavier@y...
> >To: disklavier@y...
> >Subject: [disklavier] Star Wars
> >Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 16:02:35 -0000
> >
> >Hi All
> >
> >I have just had an idea as to why there was no piano.
> >
> >If this disk is meant to be played using a Tone Generator or Sound
> >Module then it makes sense to turn the piano part off (no sound) 
and
> >pass the piano part through Midi to a Disklavier. You would then be
> >able to adjust the volume. I have other PianoSoft-Plus disks that
> >work fine. Any suggestions?
> >
> >Midi Magic
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
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http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp