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On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-15 by savage1729

Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator.  I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now.  I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help.  And so...

It is definitely a box o' noodles.  It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'.  I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get.  I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.

The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla.  One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard.  Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly.  The beast does not like to be tamed.  Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.

I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope.  I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right.  Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling.  The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top.  Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?

I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module.  I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO.  (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.)  I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting.  There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter).  There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it.  I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.

I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect.  I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones.  So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems.  It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other.  I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform.  The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?

For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions.  Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how?  And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO?  I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.

If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance.  I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works.  Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.

Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did.  It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it.  I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it.  But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66.  I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier.  The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...

Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled?  If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service.  I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it.  So far, I can't do that with the ZO.  It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.

Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)

Savage

Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-15 by ~Morbius~

There 'was' a yahoo group for the Zo... but after a while, Cynthis decided she'd rather have the discussion-thing happening on the Cyndustries group, so I closed it down.
I agree... there doesn't seem to be much 'discussing' regarding the Zo. In fact, I've been considering letting mine go, since it's way more than what I need, and it's taking-up space (which I'm totally out of)(and even have 3-4 modules stored in plastic bags)(and a RM mounted on the rear of a cabinet)... but i just don't find myself actually using the Zo to it's full potential... I guess it might be better suited with someone who does a great deal of experimentation, aleatoric stuff, and/or especially more than one Zo. I started out with two... and cross-modulating the two was a complete trip... yet, after experiementing myself silly... as fun as it was, the realism of needing space was more important (for me)... so I let one go. I suppose I'll let this one go, as well, at some point... cuz all I'm really using it for is simple LFO-stuff. I wish i could offer you more insight... but how i used mine... originally, required at least two... and after that, I really just experimented without putting it to many super-deep purposes.
Try using the quadrature outputs to patch-up a barber-pole/shepard's tone. With the four outputs all 90-degrees out of phase with each other, you can do some nifty CV's.... whether it's with osc.s and pitch... or with EG's... or VCA's.
Hell... I'd keep mine if i had the room for another cabinet... but I'm maxed-out on space, both for modules, and for cabinets. And since I don't really get into aleatoric stuff... it's like using a big-ass John Deere Tractor, when a simple pair of garden clippers will do just fine. "Mitchell's Law" is action. : |
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: savage1729
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: [dotcomformat] On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...

It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.

The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.

I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?

I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.

I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?

For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.

If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.

Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...

Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.

Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)

Savage


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-16 by peng3002

Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!

  That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.

Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).

Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106. 


Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot. 
The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.

So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control

Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).

The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness). 


That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right. 

Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.


p.




--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator.  I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now.  I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help.  And so...
> 
> It is definitely a box o' noodles.  It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'.  I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get.  I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
> 
> The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla.  One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard.  Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly.  The beast does not like to be tamed.  Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
> 
> I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope.  I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right.  Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling.  The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top.  Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
> 
> I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module.  I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO.  (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.)  I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting.  There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter).  There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it.  I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
> 
> I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect.  I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones.  So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems.  It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other.  I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform.  The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
> 
> For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions.  Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how?  And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO?  I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
> 
> If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance.  I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works.  Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
> 
> Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did.  It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it.  I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it.  But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66.  I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier.  The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
> 
> Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled?  If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service.  I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it.  So far, I can't do that with the ZO.  It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
> 
> Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
> 
> Savage
>

Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-16 by ~Morbius~

There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it IS so new... even I don't know all about it'.... evidently, by Cynthia. I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it... it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have advanced degrees in warp-theory.... I dunno, some mo. It does say that experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and turn yourself around....
I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a computer and unalighned.... probably because they were rushed and trying to keep-up... understandable. I also noticed some pots which were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me to realize the Zo's full potential?.... I don't think so... but that's probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before.... in my opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the universe.... n-sh!t like that.... and if that's your 'thing'... you definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for, right now.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: peng3002
Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!

That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.

Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).

Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106.

Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot.
The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.

So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control

Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).

The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness).

That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right.

Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.

p.

--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" ...> wrote:
>
> Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...
>
> It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
>
> The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
>
> I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
>
> I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
>
> I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
>
> For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
>
> If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
>
> Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
>
> Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
>
> Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
>
> Savage
>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-17 by Bernie

Besides the manual, there's the "ZO Test & Calibration Procedure 2.2.pdf" in the Files section of The_Cyndustries_List.

Bernie

--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "~Morbius~" <morbius@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
> 
> At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it IS so new... even I don't know all about it'....  evidently, by Cynthia. I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it... it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have advanced degrees in warp-theory....  I dunno, some mo. It does say that experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and turn yourself around....
> 
> I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a computer and unalighned....  probably because they were rushed and trying to keep-up...   understandable. I also noticed some pots which were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
> 
> Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me to realize the Zo's full potential?....  I don't think so...  but that's probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before....   in my opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the universe.... n-sh!t like that....  and if that's your 'thing'... you definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
> 
> I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for, right now.
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: peng3002 
>   To: dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
>   Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!
> 
>   That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.
> 
>   Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).
> 
>   Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106. 
> 
>   Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
>   It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
>   The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot. 
>   The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.
> 
>   So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
>   VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
>   Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control
> 
>   Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
>   Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).
> 
>   The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness). 
> 
>   That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right. 
> 
>   Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.
> 
>   p.
> 
>   --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...
>   > 
>   > It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
>   > 
>   > The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
>   > 
>   > I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
>   > 
>   > I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
>   > 
>   > I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
>   > 
>   > For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
>   > 
>   > If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
>   > 
>   > Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
>   > 
>   > Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
>   > 
>   > Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
>   > 
>   > Savage
>   >
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>   Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09 08:12:00
>

Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-17 by savage1729

Yee-hah!  Thanks Morb and Bernie for the info.  I figured that there had to be some kind of manual or datasheet that came with it, but I didn't get that (which is OK because documentation with things like this often get lost or forgotten).  So following you guys' lead, I had to join The_Cyndustries_List, but I got there and found both the manual and the test/calibration procedure.  To paraphrase Archimedes, give me a manual and a place to read and I will move the world.  I have a dinner to go to this evening after work, but just as soon as I get home, whoa, ho, hooooooooo, Nelly!

And thank you, Phil, for your help.  I understand most of the labeling, I've read about the Vari Sync on the Cyndustries website, and I have been able to do things like low-frequency modulation, and I figured out the inputs and such.  I've also used the various waveform outputs and accomplished PWM.  But this thing does just sooooooooo much more, and it does it in a wild and unpredictable manner... at least, so far.  I remain hopeful that the manual and test/calibration documentation is going to help.

We'll see.  I'm not in the ZO Zone yet, but I can now see the signpost up ahead.

Savage

--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Besides the manual, there's the "ZO Test & Calibration Procedure 2.2.pdf" in the Files section of The_Cyndustries_List.
> 
> Bernie
> 
> --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "~Morbius~" <morbius@> wrote:
> >
> > There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
> > 
> > At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it IS so new... even I don't know all about it'....  evidently, by Cynthia. I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it... it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have advanced degrees in warp-theory....  I dunno, some mo. It does say that experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and turn yourself around....
> > 
> > I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a computer and unalighned....  probably because they were rushed and trying to keep-up...   understandable. I also noticed some pots which were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
> > 
> > Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me to realize the Zo's full potential?....  I don't think so...  but that's probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before....   in my opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the universe.... n-sh!t like that....  and if that's your 'thing'... you definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
> > 
> > I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for, right now.
> > 
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: peng3002 
> >   To: dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
> >   Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!
> > 
> >   That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.
> > 
> >   Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).
> > 
> >   Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106. 
> > 
> >   Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
> >   It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
> >   The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot. 
> >   The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.
> > 
> >   So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
> >   VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
> >   Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control
> > 
> >   Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
> >   Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).
> > 
> >   The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness). 
> > 
> >   That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right. 
> > 
> >   Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.
> > 
> >   p.
> > 
> >   --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@> wrote:
> >   >
> >   > Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...
> >   > 
> >   > It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
> >   > 
> >   > The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
> >   > 
> >   > I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
> >   > 
> >   > I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
> >   > 
> >   > I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
> >   > 
> >   > For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
> >   > 
> >   > If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
> >   > 
> >   > Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
> >   > 
> >   > Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
> >   > 
> >   > Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
> >   > 
> >   > Savage
> >   >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> >   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> >   Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09 08:12:00
> >
>

Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-19 by Mark Rauch

Howdy,
 Anybybodt got one for sale?
Rig

--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Yee-hah!  Thanks Morb and Bernie for the info.  I figured that there had to be some kind of manual or datasheet that came with it, but I didn't get that (which is OK because documentation with things like this often get lost or forgotten).  So following you guys' lead, I had to join The_Cyndustries_List, but I got there and found both the manual and the test/calibration procedure.  To paraphrase Archimedes, give me a manual and a place to read and I will move the world.  I have a dinner to go to this evening after work, but just as soon as I get home, whoa, ho, hooooooooo, Nelly!
> 
> And thank you, Phil, for your help.  I understand most of the labeling, I've read about the Vari Sync on the Cyndustries website, and I have been able to do things like low-frequency modulation, and I figured out the inputs and such.  I've also used the various waveform outputs and accomplished PWM.  But this thing does just sooooooooo much more, and it does it in a wild and unpredictable manner... at least, so far.  I remain hopeful that the manual and test/calibration documentation is going to help.
> 
> We'll see.  I'm not in the ZO Zone yet, but I can now see the signpost up ahead.
> 
> Savage
> 
> --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@> wrote:
> >
> > Besides the manual, there's the "ZO Test & Calibration Procedure 2.2.pdf" in the Files section of The_Cyndustries_List.
> > 
> > Bernie
> > 
> > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "~Morbius~" <morbius@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
> > > 
> > > At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it IS so new... even I don't know all about it'....  evidently, by Cynthia. I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it... it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have advanced degrees in warp-theory....  I dunno, some mo. It does say that experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and turn yourself around....
> > > 
> > > I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a computer and unalighned....  probably because they were rushed and trying to keep-up...   understandable. I also noticed some pots which were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
> > > 
> > > Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me to realize the Zo's full potential?....  I don't think so...  but that's probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before....   in my opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the universe.... n-sh!t like that....  and if that's your 'thing'... you definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
> > > 
> > > I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for, right now.
> > > 
> > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   From: peng3002 
> > >   To: dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com 
> > >   Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
> > >   Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!
> > > 
> > >   That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.
> > > 
> > >   Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).
> > > 
> > >   Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106. 
> > > 
> > >   Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
> > >   It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
> > >   The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot. 
> > >   The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.
> > > 
> > >   So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
> > >   VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
> > >   Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control
> > > 
> > >   Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
> > >   Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).
> > > 
> > >   The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness). 
> > > 
> > >   That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right. 
> > > 
> > >   Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.
> > > 
> > >   p.
> > > 
> > >   --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@> wrote:
> > >   >
> > >   > Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...
> > >   > 
> > >   > It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
> > >   > 
> > >   > The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
> > >   > 
> > >   > I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
> > >   > 
> > >   > I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
> > >   > 
> > >   > I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
> > >   > 
> > >   > For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
> > >   > 
> > >   > If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
> > >   > 
> > >   > Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
> > >   > 
> > >   > Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
> > >   > 
> > >   > Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
> > >   > 
> > >   > Savage
> > >   >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> > >   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > >   Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09 08:12:00
> > >
> >
>

Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-19 by savage1729

Sorry, Rig.  I don't have one for sale.  I was wondering if I got in over my head and got the ZO too soon, but the manual and calibration documentation has really helped.  (Thanks for all the info, everyone!  All of it helped.)  I don't for a minute can say that I understand how the thing works yet, but I'm now on a path.

Savage

--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Rauch" <billbigrig@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Howdy,
>  Anybybodt got one for sale?
> Rig
> 
> --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@> wrote:
> >
> > Yee-hah!  Thanks Morb and Bernie for the info.  I figured that there had to be some kind of manual or datasheet that came with it, but I didn't get that (which is OK because documentation with things like this often get lost or forgotten).  So following you guys' lead, I had to join The_Cyndustries_List, but I got there and found both the manual and the test/calibration procedure.  To paraphrase Archimedes, give me a manual and a place to read and I will move the world.  I have a dinner to go to this evening after work, but just as soon as I get home, whoa, ho, hooooooooo, Nelly!
> > 
> > And thank you, Phil, for your help.  I understand most of the labeling, I've read about the Vari Sync on the Cyndustries website, and I have been able to do things like low-frequency modulation, and I figured out the inputs and such.  I've also used the various waveform outputs and accomplished PWM.  But this thing does just sooooooooo much more, and it does it in a wild and unpredictable manner... at least, so far.  I remain hopeful that the manual and test/calibration documentation is going to help.
> > 
> > We'll see.  I'm not in the ZO Zone yet, but I can now see the signpost up ahead.
> > 
> > Savage
> > 
> > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Besides the manual, there's the "ZO Test & Calibration Procedure 2.2.pdf" in the Files section of The_Cyndustries_List.
> > > 
> > > Bernie
> > > 
> > > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "~Morbius~" <morbius@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
> > > > 
> > > > At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it IS so new... even I don't know all about it'....  evidently, by Cynthia. I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it... it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have advanced degrees in warp-theory....  I dunno, some mo. It does say that experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and turn yourself around....
> > > > 
> > > > I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a computer and unalighned....  probably because they were rushed and trying to keep-up...   understandable. I also noticed some pots which were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
> > > > 
> > > > Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me to realize the Zo's full potential?....  I don't think so...  but that's probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before....   in my opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the universe.... n-sh!t like that....  and if that's your 'thing'... you definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
> > > > 
> > > > I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for, right now.
> > > > 
> > > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >   From: peng3002 
> > > >   To: dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com 
> > > >   Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
> > > >   Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!
> > > > 
> > > >   That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.
> > > > 
> > > >   Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).
> > > > 
> > > >   Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106. 
> > > > 
> > > >   Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
> > > >   It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
> > > >   The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot. 
> > > >   The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.
> > > > 
> > > >   So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
> > > >   VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
> > > >   Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control
> > > > 
> > > >   Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
> > > >   Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).
> > > > 
> > > >   The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness). 
> > > > 
> > > >   That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right. 
> > > > 
> > > >   Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.
> > > > 
> > > >   p.
> > > > 
> > > >   --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@> wrote:
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > Savage
> > > >   >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > >   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > > >   Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09 08:12:00
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-20 by Mark Rauch

Howdy,

 Is anyone selling a used ZO or Q-960 or Q-962? Let me know. Thanx
Rig

--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Sorry, Rig.  I don't have one for sale.  I was wondering if I got in over my head and got the ZO too soon, but the manual and calibration documentation has really helped.  (Thanks for all the info, everyone!  All of it helped.)  I don't for a minute can say that I understand how the thing works yet, but I'm now on a path.
> 
> Savage
> 
> --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Rauch" <billbigrig@> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy,
> >  Anybybodt got one for sale?
> > Rig
> > 
> > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yee-hah!  Thanks Morb and Bernie for the info.  I figured that there had to be some kind of manual or datasheet that came with it, but I didn't get that (which is OK because documentation with things like this often get lost or forgotten).  So following you guys' lead, I had to join The_Cyndustries_List, but I got there and found both the manual and the test/calibration procedure.  To paraphrase Archimedes, give me a manual and a place to read and I will move the world.  I have a dinner to go to this evening after work, but just as soon as I get home, whoa, ho, hooooooooo, Nelly!
> > > 
> > > And thank you, Phil, for your help.  I understand most of the labeling, I've read about the Vari Sync on the Cyndustries website, and I have been able to do things like low-frequency modulation, and I figured out the inputs and such.  I've also used the various waveform outputs and accomplished PWM.  But this thing does just sooooooooo much more, and it does it in a wild and unpredictable manner... at least, so far.  I remain hopeful that the manual and test/calibration documentation is going to help.
> > > 
> > > We'll see.  I'm not in the ZO Zone yet, but I can now see the signpost up ahead.
> > > 
> > > Savage
> > > 
> > > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Besides the manual, there's the "ZO Test & Calibration Procedure 2.2.pdf" in the Files section of The_Cyndustries_List.
> > > > 
> > > > Bernie
> > > > 
> > > > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "~Morbius~" <morbius@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
> > > > > 
> > > > > At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it IS so new... even I don't know all about it'....  evidently, by Cynthia. I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it... it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have advanced degrees in warp-theory....  I dunno, some mo. It does say that experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and turn yourself around....
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a computer and unalighned....  probably because they were rushed and trying to keep-up...   understandable. I also noticed some pots which were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me to realize the Zo's full potential?....  I don't think so...  but that's probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before....   in my opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the universe.... n-sh!t like that....  and if that's your 'thing'... you definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for, right now.
> > > > > 
> > > > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > >   From: peng3002 
> > > > >   To: dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com 
> > > > >   Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
> > > > >   Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!
> > > > > 
> > > > >   That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106. 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
> > > > >   It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
> > > > >   The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot. 
> > > > >   The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.
> > > > > 
> > > > >   So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
> > > > >   VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
> > > > >   Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
> > > > >   Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).
> > > > > 
> > > > >   The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness). 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right. 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.
> > > > > 
> > > > >   p.
> > > > > 
> > > > >   --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" <savage1729@> wrote:
> > > > >   >
> > > > >   > Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
> > > > >   > 
> > > > >   > Savage
> > > > >   >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > >   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> > > > >   Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09 08:12:00
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re:Zowie Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-20 by ~Morbius~

Yeah... I do. Contact me OFF LIST if you wanna make an offer.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Rauch
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 1:34 PM
Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

Howdy,
Anybybodt got one for sale?
Rig

--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" ...> wrote:
>
> Yee-hah! Thanks Morb and Bernie for the info. I figured that there had to be some kind of manual or datasheet that came with it, but I didn't get that (which is OK because documentation with things like this often get lost or forgotten). So following you guys' lead, I had to join The_Cyndustries_List, but I got there and found both the manual and the test/calibration procedure. To paraphrase Archimedes, give me a manual and a place to read and I will move the world. I have a dinner to go to this evening after work, but just as soon as I get home, whoa, ho, hooooooooo, Nelly!
>
> And thank you, Phil, for your help. I understand most of the labeling, I've read about the Vari Sync on the Cyndustries website, and I have been able to do things like low-frequency modulation, and I figured out the inputs and such. I've also used the various waveform outputs and accomplished PWM. But this thing does just sooooooooo much more, and it does it in a wild and unpredictable manner... at least, so far. I remain hopeful that the manual and test/calibration documentation is going to help.
>
> We'll see. I'm not in the ZO Zone yet, but I can now see the signpost up ahead.
>
> Savage
>
> --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" wrote:
> >
> > Besides the manual, there's the "ZO Test & Calibration Procedure 2.2.pdf" in the Files section of The_Cyndustries_List.
> >
> > Bernie
> >
> > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "~Morbius~" wrote:
> > >
> > > There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
> > >
> > > At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it IS so new... even I don't know all about it'.... evidently, by Cynthia. I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it... it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have advanced degrees in warp-theory.... I dunno, some mo. It does say that experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and turn yourself around....
> > >
> > > I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a computer and unalighned.... probably because they were rushed and trying to keep-up... understandable. I also noticed some pots which were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
> > >
> > > Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me to realize the Zo's full potential?.... I don't think so... but that's probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before.... in my opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the universe.... n-sh!t like that.... and if that's your 'thing'... you definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
> > >
> > > I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for, right now.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: peng3002
> > > To: dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
> > > Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >; >
> > >
> > > Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!
> > >
> > > That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if I am right.
> > >
> > > Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the q106 aid module (don't know that module number).
> > >
> > > Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106.
> > >
> > > Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
> > > It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1 can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2 input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to the LIN FM jack above it.
> > > The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM). Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot.
> > > The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use elsewhere in your system.
> > >
> > > So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod. Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
> > > VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
> > > Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control
> > >
> > > Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
> > > Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod (also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA design).
> > >
> > > The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese, sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a Vactrol-like softness).
> > >
> > > That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested if I got these sections right.
>; > >
> > > Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's guide.
> > >
> > > p.
> > >
> > > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Those of you here who are also members of the synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for help. And so...
> > > >
> > > > It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the fact that it is a very complex module.
> >; > >
> > > > The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
> > > >
> > > > I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or are there exceptions?
> > > >
> > > > I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.) I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it. I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
> > > >
> > > > I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other. I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on the panel do those concepts come into play?
> > > >
> > > > For example, there are technically seven different functions on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so, how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
> > > >
> > > > If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
> > > >
> > > > Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did. It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss the most, but something had to go, so...
> > > >
> > > > Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out, putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I twiddle the knobs.
> > > >
> > > > Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Savage
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.58/2062 - Release Date: 04/16/09 08:12:00
> > >
> >
>


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.0/2066 - Release Date: 04/18/09 09:55:00

Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're entering the ZO Zone

2009-04-20 by jeffsynth

Rig,

I got one for sale...Still interested?

Jeffsynth


--- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Rauch" <billbigrig@...>
wrote:
>
> Howdy,
>  Anybybodt got one for sale?
> Rig
>
> --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729" savage1729@ wrote:
> >
> > Yee-hah!  Thanks Morb and Bernie for the info.  I figured that there
had to be some kind of manual or datasheet that came with it, but I
didn't get that (which is OK because documentation with things like this
often get lost or forgotten).  So following you guys' lead, I had to
join The_Cyndustries_List, but I got there and found both the manual and
the test/calibration procedure.  To paraphrase Archimedes, give me a
manual and a place to read and I will move the world.  I have a dinner
to go to this evening after work, but just as soon as I get home, whoa,
ho, hooooooooo, Nelly!
> >
> > And thank you, Phil, for your help.  I understand most of the
labeling, I've read about the Vari Sync on the Cyndustries website, and
I have been able to do things like low-frequency modulation, and I
figured out the inputs and such.  I've also used the various waveform
outputs and accomplished PWM.  But this thing does just sooooooooo much
more, and it does it in a wild and unpredictable manner... at least, so
far.  I remain hopeful that the manual and test/calibration
documentation is going to help.
> >
> > We'll see.  I'm not in the ZO Zone yet, but I can now see the
signpost up ahead.
> >
> > Savage
> >
> > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "Bernie" <kornowicz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Besides the manual, there's the "ZO Test & Calibration Procedure
2.2.pdf" in the Files section of The_Cyndustries_List.
> > >
> > > Bernie
> > >
> > > --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "~Morbius~" <morbius@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There is a manual that comes with it. Because I don't have the
time right now, I can't address (properly) the +'s and -'s of the
manual... but it addresses most, if not all of the front panel
controls/jacks, and functions... theories.
> > > >
> > > > At the end, it does say something to the effect that ' since it
IS so new... even I don't know all about it'....  evidently, by Cynthia.
I'm not saying the manual is good or bad. Just 're-glancing' thru it...
it may be that some people (not excluding myself) aren't 'getting' what
is being said.... or- it could be that it's just fine.... IF you have
advanced degrees in warp-theory....  I dunno, some mo. It does say that
experimenting is a big part of it. It also has some 'demos'.... try
patching this to that... hold your tongue... do the 'hokie-pokie', and
turn yourself around....
> > > >
> > > > I'll say this... my Zo's were some of the first done... and as I
recall, things were crazy at Cyndustries at that time... working 40-hour
days, etc. One of my manuals was printed upside-down, and printed from a
computer and unalighned....  probably because they were rushed and
trying to keep-up...   understandable. I also noticed some pots which
were loose. All I'm saying is that all of what I'm saying kinda says
that they were trying to catch-up... filling orders. maybe the manual's
be reprinted, or altered... I dunno.
> > > >
> > > > Did the manual help me...... uh?!.... somewhat. Did it help me
to realize the Zo's full potential?....  I don't think so...  but that's
probably my fault. Is the Zo capable of much more than I've used it
for..... oh!... without a doubt. But like i said before....   in my
opinion (worth maybe 39-cents)... this module is really for
experimentation, and those who want to find the meaning of the
universe.... n-sh!t like that....  and if that's your 'thing'... you
definitely want a Zo. I 'do' use it.... I really do.... but it's
overkill for what I'm doing... and I think someone who's heavily into
the aleatoric stuff, would put it to much better use than I have.
> > > >
> > > > I know this hasn't helped much... but it's all I have time for,
right now.
> > > >
> > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > > >   From: peng3002
> > > >   To: dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com
> > > >   Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:08 PM
> > > >   Subject: [dotcomformat] Re: On the signpost up ahead, you're
entering the ZO Zone
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Take everything I write with a grain of salt because I do not
have a ZO. If there was ever a module that should have a user's guide to
explain functions, jacks, and controls...THIS IS IT! I couldn't find one
on the site and I'm assuming you ZO owners don't have one either?!
> > > >
> > > >   That said, I'll try to explain what I THINK some of the
functions and controls are. You will have to report back and tell us if
I am right.
> > > >
> > > >   Vari Synch - this is like the soft sync control that is on the
q106 aid module (don't know that module number).
> > > >
> > > >   Linear FM controls - The LIN FM jack and pot above it are just
like the LIN FM jack and pot on a Q106.
> > > >
> > > >   Dynamic Depth controls - The DYNAMIC 1 and 2 jacks, FM INDEX
pot and jack, and the MOD OUT jack are all a part of the inear dynamic
depth modulation section. Dynamic depth control is nothing more than
placing a VCA in front of the LIN FM input on a normal oscillator.
> > > >   It's a difficult to tell what is going on with the DYNAMIC 1
and 2 jacks but referring to the Modcan A format gives a clue. Modcan A
uses white jacks for CV and Grey for audio. So I am guessing DYNAMIC 1
can be a CV or audio input to the VCA (the ZO uses a Ring Mod instead of
a VCA but it is nearly the same thing, more about this later). DYNAMIC 2
input jack also goes to the VCA (RM) but is AC coupled for audio signals
only. It looks like the signal patched to DYNAMIC 2 is also normalled to
the LIN FM jack above it.
> > > >   The FM INDEX pot and jack is the control for the VCA (RM).
Patch an EG here and adjust its level with the index pot.
> > > >   The MOD OUT jack is the output of this VCA (RM) to use
elsewhere in your system.
> > > >
> > > >   So why do I refer to a VCA when it is actually a Ring Mod.
Because a VCA and a Ring Mod are almost the same thing!
> > > >   VCA - bipolar input / unipolar control
> > > >   Ring Mod - bipolar input / bipolar control
> > > >
> > > >   Controlling a Ring Mod with an EG is the same thing as using a
VCA BUT if you invert the EG (make it 0 to -5V) the audio will come out
inverted. Using a 0 to -5v EG with a VCA does not result in phase
reversal of the input signal, the VCA will simply remain off.
> > > >   Note: some RM are AC coupled on both inputs so you cannot use
them as a VCA. Very lame! This is not the case with the ZO ring mod
(also, it probably uses an AD633 multiplier IC and these work great as
RM or a VCA. Sound quality-wise probably a step up from the DotCom VCA
design).
> > > >
> > > >   The Morph section - Patch an EG to MORPH A IN. As the EG rises
the waveform at the MORPH out jacks (0, 180) should change from triangle
to sine to square. Try short EG times here like 0 Attack, relaese,
sustain, and adjust the decay time (short). This may result in a
pluck-like sound. I have circuits that behave like this in some VCOs I
build and the sound can be reminiscent of a LoPass Gate (ie: a
Vactrol-like softness).
> > > >
> > > >   That's all for now. Tell me how it goes because I'm interested
if I got these sections right.
> > > >
> > > >   Oh yeah, if anyone has a ZO they can loan me I'd be glad to do
an exhaustive experimentation session and write up a descent user's
guide.
> > > >
> > > >   p.
> > > >
> > > >   --- In dotcomformat@yahoogroups.com, "savage1729"
<savage1729@> wrote:
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Those of you here who are also members of the
synthesizersdotcomgroup may remember that I got hold of Guido's
dotcomformat Zeroscillator. I have lurked on this group because I have
not had any dotcomformat modules that weren't Dot Com, until now. I also
wanted to work with it a while before I posted any opinions or cried for
help. And so...
> > > >   >
> > > >   > It is definitely a box o' noodles. It's pretty easy to
create some really wild sounds with the ZO, but everything I've managed
to do with it has been 'accidental'. I find it difficult to be able to
predict what I'm going to get. I figure this is largely in part to the
fact that it is a very complex module.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > The function of the module feels very Buchla-like, or at
least what I envision a Buchla to function like since I've never
actually used a Buchla. One reason that causes me to feel it's
Buchla-like is it took me more than a day of working with it before I
could get any kind of sound that would track accurately with the
keyboard. Once I would arrive at a tonality, I would have to adjust
multiple parameters to get the keyboard to track correctly. The beast
does not like to be tamed. Because of this, I have used the sequencer
with the ZO as a tone source more than the keyboard.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > I have yet to figure out how to make the module react to an
envelope. I have yet to figure out what functions on the module can be
voltage-controlled beyond the inputs at bottom-left and -right. Most of
the tonal changes I've managed were accomplished by knob-twiddling. The
signal flow seems to be from bottom to top. Is that universally true, or
are there exceptions?
> > > >   >
> > > >   > I have searched the Internet far and wide to see how others
have used this module. I found some block diagrams on the Cyndustries
web site, but only one or two of those were for single ZO's, and I only
have one ZO. (The 'basic patch' was the only one I really found useful.)
I found one mention of someone elsewhere on the 'Net using a ZO in a
patch, but it was a 'Buchla-like' aleatoric patch, and I got the
impression that he 'tripped over' the sound he was getting. There seems
to be a lot of people out there with ZO's, but I can't find where anyone
actually discusses using it, not like I find with Dot Com modules (or
any others, for that matter). There used to be a discussion group for
people who have ZO's, but when I tried going there, I couldn't find it.
I either had the wrong URL or it has been dissolved.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > I do understand the concept of Chowning FM synthesis, even
getting down to the math aspect. I've used a software synth that uses
nothing but combinations of multiple sine waves to create tones. So it's
not FM synthesis that is causing me problems. It's just knowing what
each knob and jack actually does and how they interact with each other.
I also understand the concept of 'negative frequencies' and how they
move in a complex waveform. The theory doesn't bother me; it's where on
the panel do those concepts come into play?
> > > >   >
> > > >   > For example, there are technically seven different functions
on a ZO according to the Cyndustries web page; yet, I don't know where
on the panel one gets each of those functions. Can you combine these
functions with a patch that is totally internal on the ZO, and if so,
how? And how can you apply external voltages to change various
parameters on the ZO? I have not been able to find a single input that
will cause it to respond to an envelope generator.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > If anyone here has any basic patch ideas that would get me
started, I would greatly appreciate any assistance. I don't need any
specific patches for this tone or that, just something that leads me in
the right direction so I get a better understanding of how the module
works. Even without patches, if anyone can give me some information on
what each knob and jack does on it, I would appreciate it.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Overall, I do like the ZO; I'd just like it a lot better if
I actually knew things like what the jack under the Vari Sync knob did.
It is, as I said, a box o' noodles in that you can get really cool and
bizarre sounds out of it. I have figured out how to get ring
modulation-type 'klang tones' out of it. But right now, I'm questioning
whether it's appropriate for a 44-space system and may be more
appropriate when I expand to 66. I had to remove a 4-channel mixer (as I
still have the 8-channel), a ring modulator (since the ZO is capable of
ring modulation), and a clipper/rectifier. The latter is the one I miss
the most, but something had to go, so...
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Is the ZO just a box o' noodles for random tonalities, or
can it be predictably controlled? If I can't figure out how to do more
than just achieve random tones on the ZO, I may end up taking it out,
putting the three modules mentioned back, and waiting until I get a
third portable cabinet before it goes back into service. I don't mind
random tones, but I prefer knowing what I'm doing with a module such
that if I get an idea for a tone, I know pretty much what to do to get
it. So far, I can't do that with the ZO. It just screams wildly as I
twiddle the knobs.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Am I the first emperor to ackowledge that I have no clothes?
;-)
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Savage
> > > >   >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   No virus found in this incoming message.
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Date: 04/16/09 08:12:00
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