Elektron Musical Instruments

Hi ---

I'm considering getting a Machine Drum, but I'm concerned about the build quality as I've 
seen this raised in several user reviews on Harmony Central and Solid State.

As it's several hundred miles to the nearest place where I can try one out, I thought I'd 
solicit some opinions.  The construction issues seem to be:

(i) buttons
(ii) rotary encoders (I know these are surface mounted, which already worries me)
(iii) labels (paint wears off)

Are these really issues?  
How does the build quality compare to other gear you've used (I'm especially interested in 
hearing comparisons to Dave Smith Evolver, Quasimidi 309, Jomox X09, AKAI MPC1000, 
old TRs --- please tell me it's better made than a 606) ?
Can it withstand heavy use / gigging?

It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't rely on it.

:: Kkonkkrete ::

Both the Machinedrum and Monomachine are built like tanks.  Like any  
electronic gear, you probably shouldn't pour a beer in it, drop it  
off a table, run over with your car, or smash it with a hammer and  
still expect it to work.

Both boxes have a higher build quality than the Evolver.  My main  
beef with that instrument is that the knobs fall off, since they are  
just barely hanging on the posts.

Elektron gear is beautiful.  Part of the high price of their stuff is  
due to hand-crafted, high-quality components.  If you order direct  
from Elektron, I think they have a 10-day return policy or something  
like that.  So you could check it out without any risk.

/Scott

On Nov 15, 2005, at 10:22 AM, kkonkkrete wrote:

> Hi ---
>
> I'm considering getting a Machine Drum, but I'm concerned about the  
> build quality as I've
> seen this raised in several user reviews on Harmony Central and  
> Solid State.
>
> As it's several hundred miles to the nearest place where I can try  
> one out, I thought I'd
> solicit some opinions.  The construction issues seem to be:
>
> (i) buttons
> (ii) rotary encoders (I know these are surface mounted, which  
> already worries me)
> (iii) labels (paint wears off)
>
> Are these really issues?
> How does the build quality compare to other gear you've used (I'm  
> especially interested in
> hearing comparisons to Dave Smith Evolver, Quasimidi 309, Jomox  
> X09, AKAI MPC1000,
> old TRs --- please tell me it's better made than a 606) ?
> Can it withstand heavy use / gigging?
>
> It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't rely on it.
>
> :: Kkonkkrete ::
>
>
>
>
>
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

I didn't realize that about the Evolver knobs.  Having just purchased  
one and waiting for delivery that kinda sucks.

But I'll second what Scott said about the MD.  I've had mine for 4  
years and it's a tank.

c.

On Nov 15, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Both the Machinedrum and Monomachine are built like tanks.  Like any
> electronic gear, you probably shouldn't pour a beer in it, drop it
> off a table, run over with your car, or smash it with a hammer and
> still expect it to work.
>
> Both boxes have a higher build quality than the Evolver.  My main
> beef with that instrument is that the knobs fall off, since they are
> just barely hanging on the posts.
>
> Elektron gear is beautiful.  Part of the high price of their stuff is
> due to hand-crafted, high-quality components.  If you order direct
> from Elektron, I think they have a 10-day return policy or something
> like that.  So you could check it out without any risk.
>
> /Scott
>
> On Nov 15, 2005, at 10:22 AM, kkonkkrete wrote:
>
>
>> Hi ---
>>
>> I'm considering getting a Machine Drum, but I'm concerned about the
>> build quality as I've
>> seen this raised in several user reviews on Harmony Central and
>> Solid State.
>>
>> As it's several hundred miles to the nearest place where I can try
>> one out, I thought I'd
>> solicit some opinions.  The construction issues seem to be:
>>
>> (i) buttons
>> (ii) rotary encoders (I know these are surface mounted, which
>> already worries me)
>> (iii) labels (paint wears off)
>>
>> Are these really issues?
>> How does the build quality compare to other gear you've used (I'm
>> especially interested in
>> hearing comparisons to Dave Smith Evolver, Quasimidi 309, Jomox
>> X09, AKAI MPC1000,
>> old TRs --- please tell me it's better made than a 606) ?
>> Can it withstand heavy use / gigging?
>>
>> It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't rely on it.
>>
>> :: Kkonkkrete ::
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
>> ~-->
>> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
>> home page
>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/XkLolB/TM
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ~->
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> ~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your  
> home page
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/XkLolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 03:22:43PM -0000, kkonkkrete wrote:
> 
> Are these really issues?  

in my experience, no.  i've travelled a lot with the MD and
i play it constantly, and the buttons, encoders and finish
have held up perfectly.  you'd really have to smack this
thing around all the time to see any wear and tear - it's
built like the proverbial tank.

-- 
yours,
niall.
.. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around silence.
http://syncretism.net
.. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..

Hey kkonkkrete, get a hold of me if you are in the USA.
I have a barely used Machinedrum for sale.
In box, all items MINT.  Plastic still on LCD screen.
$950.00 shipped and insured in the USA.
Will consider shipping international, but it will obviously cost a lot
more.
Anyway...
I have no time to use it and I must sell it.
It is awesome. I am sad to let it go, but my wife knows 
I am not using it and is after me to sell it.
It is built like a tank.  If you get a nice little case for it, you
will never have to worry about wear from travel.
You will love it.  A seriously great piece of gear.

I can send you pics if you are interested.
Let me know.

If anyone else out there has an interest, let me know.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "kkonkkrete" <kkonkkrete@y...>
wrote:
>
> Hi ---
> 
> I'm considering getting a Machine Drum, but I'm concerned about the
build quality as I've 
> seen this raised in several user reviews on Harmony Central and
Solid State.
> 
> As it's several hundred miles to the nearest place where I can try
one out, I thought I'd 
> solicit some opinions.  The construction issues seem to be:
> 
> (i) buttons
> (ii) rotary encoders (I know these are surface mounted, which
already worries me)
> (iii) labels (paint wears off)
> 
> Are these really issues?  
> How does the build quality compare to other gear you've used (I'm
especially interested in 
> hearing comparisons to Dave Smith Evolver, Quasimidi 309, Jomox X09,
AKAI MPC1000, 

> old TRs --- please tell me it's better made than a 606) ?
> Can it withstand heavy use / gigging?
> 
> It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't rely on it.
> 
> :: Kkonkkrete ::
>

So, for example the following quote from a review at harmony central (http://
www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Elektron_ESI_AB/Machinedrum-1.html) is unfair?

Why would someone defame a well-built instrument this way?  The comparison to the 
Korg is particularly harsh ;-)

:: kkonkkrete ::



<Start Quote>
Reliability: N/A
OK OK OK... READ UP FOR THIS SECTION!!!!!!!!!!

This is probably the CHEAPEST PIECE OF SHIT GEAR I HAVE EVER USED.

I seriously do not know why after reading hundreds of reviews how so many people have 
overlooked the crap construction of this thing.

Yes it is metal and aluminum, but it is cheap. Seriously, LOL @ european engineering and 
craftsmanship. That is so overrated it's not even funny. Most european gear now just suck. 
Stick with japanese for build quality and reliability. I will tell you why:

They use crap paint for the parameter labels and they fall off over time. The screen is 
easily scratched! Actually it gets scratched when you wipe the screen! That is how bad it is.

and the KNOBS... OH MY GOD! I can't believe people have not mentioned this. The knobs 
are the worst I have EVER felt. Cheap plastic! They feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FLIMSY.. it's 
really that bad. Seriously imagine the worst made in china and Elektron machinedrum 
knobs are that. The worst finishing i have ever seen. The front plate is not finished.. so 
you be careful you can slice up your hand it's so sharp. Seriously, LOL @ european 
engineering. I really hope people read this and find out the truth about this thing.

seriously.. i'm surprised the folks over at machinedrum are not going ot the shrink out of 
GUILT everyday for charging 1300 dollars for this crap construction. I mean if it was 300 
bucks I can understand.. the Korg Er1 MK2 DESTROYS this thing for build quality.

Customer Support: N/A
I heard it was good. I'm selling this thing right away on Ebay. Apparently they have resale 
values. I'm very very surprised.

Overall Rating: N/A
To be fair.. it has a good interface, good sounds.. But nothing you can't do in software.

I would not replace this thing. I say get an ER1 or Rackattack.. a lot better and more 
reliable. I am so disappointed with my purchase it's not even funny. Seriously you don't 
understand the true meaning of CHEAP CONSTRUCTION until you have seen the 
machinedrum.

I know some of you guys will have problems with me caring about build quality 
excessively.. but the thing is I need to gig with this thing.. and this thing does not give the 
air of reliability. It's metal but it's cheaply constructed. Hey man even the FORD PINTO is 
made out of metal.. would you buy it?

My final analysis: GOOD FEATURES, GOOD INTERFACE, EXCELLENT SOUND, ATROCIOUS 
BUILD QUALITY.. JUST ATROCIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<End Quote>




--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, niall munnelly <aleph@a...> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 03:22:43PM -0000, kkonkkrete wrote:
> > 
> > Are these really issues?  
> 
> in my experience, no.  i've travelled a lot with the MD and
> i play it constantly, and the buttons, encoders and finish
> have held up perfectly.  you'd really have to smack this
> thing around all the time to see any wear and tear - it's
> built like the proverbial tank.
> 
> -- 
> yours,
> niall.
> .. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
> aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around silence.
> http://syncretism.net
> .. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..
>

The construction issues seem to be:
> 
> (i) buttons
> (ii) rotary encoders (I know these are surface mounted, which already worries me)
> (iii) labels (paint wears off)
> 
> Are these really issues?  

The Elektron Mono & MD are very well constructed electronic boxes with lots of 
switches, pots & LEDs popping through the face plates. Yeah, I think the stuff is 
surface mounted, but everything feels VERY solid. There must be some structure 
under the boards to help to give it rigidity. Failure of a switch, LED or encoder 
wouldn't be out of the question -there's around ninety components that pass through 
the heavy gauge aluminum face plate -which almost all the graphics are anodized 
onto the surface. I dont think anodization scratches off, it's like a different color of 
aluminum that's been plated to the surface. I bet if you spilled a good drip of water 
on it while it was on you might need to send it to Sweeden for some work. You could 
probably shear off a pot shaft by sliding a cabinet into it at just the right angle.
Judging by the way they look & feel I bet there will be plenty of working Monos & MDs 
around that never needed service in the year 2040. just a guess

On 11/15/05 11:42 AM, "kkonkkrete" wrote:

> 
> So, for example the following quote from a review at harmony central (http://
> www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Elektron_ESI_AB/Machinedrum-1.html) is
> unfair?
> 
> Why would someone defame a well-built instrument this way?  The comparison to
> the 
> Korg is particularly harsh ;-)

Exactly 

> 
> I would not replace this thing. I say get an ER1 or Rackattack.. a lot better
> and more 
> reliable. 

How can anyone take someone like this seriously after making this comment.

I have a monomachine, and while excellent quality it does have a handbuilt
feel to it that may put some people off I guess who are used to like
triton's hah ;P

Also I have heard from some people that in their opinion the knobs and
buttons do feel a little cheap, and while I can see where this comes from,
it is just a different feel imo, I like the loose feeling buttons as opposed
to like a hard rubber pad or something.

Why indeed?  Checked ebay, only 2 MDs have been listed since this post, neither appear to be from this person.  Looked for other reviews by same person - nada.  Reviewer name has no link to profile.  I registered at HC just for the hell of it, no listings by this user name in any of the forums I could find.

So the only authority or background we have on this critic is this single, unsourced, review.  So, we check spelling, grammar, construction, etc. to glean clues about the credibility of the poster. It reads very juvenile and clumsy.  Could be English as a second language, I suppose, except he seems to enjoy insulting Europeans and prices the product in US $..

All caps on the warning, excessive us of multiple !!!!!!!, They feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FLIMSY, LOL @ european engineering, and so on.

Now compare it to every other review on the same page for the same product.  Remove this one from the score and see what the reliability index becomes.

I will not rely on HC user comments for much of anything factual.  It can be fun but it has become a pool of slime and tricks some of the time.  And competitors are suspected of spiking the deck on occasion.

Now my fallacious logic: an appeal to authority.  I have been involved in electronic music since 1969.  I own a ludicrous collection of gear; vintage and modern.  I worked as office manager for EMSA in the 1970s - importer of EMS gear in the US, sales of large modulars (mostly Moog) to Universities.  Did repairs.  I have a traceable on-line identity under this email name:

I own all 3 elektron products.  I believe each of them to be very well-built.  They are quirky.  I have one of the first MDs with the older knobs.  I prefer them, others don't.  The instrument is idiosyncratic but it is certainly reliable and well-built.  If that is the only concern keeping you from buying one, I would get it.  If you are not sure the sounds and uniqueness are for you, try to find someone near you that will let you try it out (I'm in the Bay Area of CA if that helps).  The minute you touch it you will dismiss the line, "CHEAPEST PIECE OF SHIT GEAR I HAVE EVER USED".

And as a smaqll company supporting a complex line of products, I have found Elektron to be responsive and responsible.  They may need a shrink (perhaps we all do), but not for feelings guilt.

-----Original Message-----
From: kkonkkrete <kkonkkrete@...>
Sent: Nov 15, 2005 11:42 AM
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [elektron] MachineDrum prospective buyer: build quality ?


So, for example the following quote from a review at harmony central (http://
www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Elektron_ESI_AB/Machinedrum-1.html) is unfair?

Why would someone defame a well-built instrument this way?  The comparison to the 
Korg is particularly harsh ;-)

:: kkonkkrete ::



<Start Quote>
Reliability: N/A
OK OK OK... READ UP FOR THIS SECTION!!!!!!!!!!

This is probably the CHEAPEST PIECE OF SHIT GEAR I HAVE EVER USED.

I seriously do not know why after reading hundreds of reviews how so many people have 
overlooked the crap construction of this thing.

Yes it is metal and aluminum, but it is cheap. Seriously, LOL @ european engineering and 
craftsmanship. That is so overrated it's not even funny. Most european gear now just suck. 
Stick with japanese for build quality and reliability. I will tell you why:

They use crap paint for the parameter labels and they fall off over time. The screen is 
easily scratched! Actually it gets scratched when you wipe the screen! That is how bad it is.

and the KNOBS... OH MY GOD! I can't believe people have not mentioned this. The knobs 
are the worst I have EVER felt. Cheap plastic! They feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FLIMSY.. it's 
really that bad. Seriously imagine the worst made in china and Elektron machinedrum 
knobs are that. The worst finishing i have ever seen. The front plate is not finished.. so 
you be careful you can slice up your hand it's so sharp. Seriously, LOL @ european 
engineering. I really hope people read this and find out the truth about this thing.

seriously.. i'm surprised the folks over at machinedrum are not going ot the shrink out of 
GUILT everyday for charging 1300 dollars for this crap construction. I mean if it was 300 
bucks I can understand.. the Korg Er1 MK2 DESTROYS this thing for build quality.

Customer Support: N/A
I heard it was good. I'm selling this thing right away on Ebay. Apparently they have resale 
values. I'm very very surprised.

Overall Rating: N/A
To be fair.. it has a good interface, good sounds.. But nothing you can't do in software.

I would not replace this thing. I say get an ER1 or Rackattack.. a lot better and more 
reliable. I am so disappointed with my purchase it's not even funny. Seriously you don't 
understand the true meaning of CHEAP CONSTRUCTION until you have seen the 
machinedrum.

I know some of you guys will have problems with me caring about build quality 
excessively.. but the thing is I need to gig with this thing.. and this thing does not give the 
air of reliability. It's metal but it's cheaply constructed. Hey man even the FORD PINTO is 
made out of metal.. would you buy it?

My final analysis: GOOD FEATURES, GOOD INTERFACE, EXCELLENT SOUND, ATROCIOUS 
BUILD QUALITY.. JUST ATROCIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<End Quote>




--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, niall munnelly <aleph@a...> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 03:22:43PM -0000, kkonkkrete wrote:
> > 
> > Are these really issues?  
> 
> in my experience, no.  i've travelled a lot with the MD and
> i play it constantly, and the buttons, encoders and finish
> have held up perfectly.  you'd really have to smack this
> thing around all the time to see any wear and tear - it's
> built like the proverbial tank.
> 
> -- 
> yours,
> niall.
> .. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
> aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around silence.
> http://syncretism.net
> .. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..
>






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

That poster most likely never even used a machinedrum.

--- synchro1 <synchro1@...> wrote:

> Why indeed?  Checked ebay, only 2 MDs have been
> listed since this post, neither appear to be from
> this person.  Looked for other reviews by same
> person - nada.  Reviewer name has no link to
> profile.  I registered at HC just for the hell of
> it, no listings by this user name in any of the
> forums I could find.
> 
> So the only authority or background we have on this
> critic is this single, unsourced, review.  So, we
> check spelling, grammar, construction, etc. to glean
> clues about the credibility of the poster. It reads
> very juvenile and clumsy.  Could be English as a
> second language, I suppose, except he seems to enjoy
> insulting Europeans and prices the product in US $..
> 
> All caps on the warning, excessive us of multiple
> !!!!!!!, They feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FLIMSY, LOL @
> european engineering, and so on.
> 
> Now compare it to every other review on the same
> page for the same product.  Remove this one from the
> score and see what the reliability index becomes.
> 
> I will not rely on HC user comments for much of
> anything factual.  It can be fun but it has become a
> pool of slime and tricks some of the time.  And
> competitors are suspected of spiking the deck on
> occasion.
> 
> Now my fallacious logic: an appeal to authority.  I
> have been involved in electronic music since 1969. 
> I own a ludicrous collection of gear; vintage and
> modern.  I worked as office manager for EMSA in the
> 1970s - importer of EMS gear in the US, sales of
> large modulars (mostly Moog) to Universities.  Did
> repairs.  I have a traceable on-line identity under
> this email name:
> 
> I own all 3 elektron products.  I believe each of
> them to be very well-built.  They are quirky.  I
> have one of the first MDs with the older knobs.  I
> prefer them, others don't.  The instrument is
> idiosyncratic but it is certainly reliable and
> well-built.  If that is the only concern keeping you
> from buying one, I would get it.  If you are not
> sure the sounds and uniqueness are for you, try to
> find someone near you that will let you try it out
> (I'm in the Bay Area of CA if that helps).  The
> minute you touch it you will dismiss the line,
> "CHEAPEST PIECE OF SHIT GEAR I HAVE EVER USED".
> 
> And as a smaqll company supporting a complex line of
> products, I have found Elektron to be responsive and
> responsible.  They may need a shrink (perhaps we all
> do), but not for feelings guilt.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kkonkkrete <kkonkkrete@...>
> Sent: Nov 15, 2005 11:42 AM
> To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [elektron] MachineDrum prospective
> buyer: build quality ?
> 
> 
> So, for example the following quote from a review at
> harmony central (http://
>
www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Elektron_ESI_AB/Machinedrum-1.html)
> is unfair?
> 
> Why would someone defame a well-built instrument
> this way?  The comparison to the 
> Korg is particularly harsh ;-)
> 
> :: kkonkkrete ::
> 
> 
> 
> <Start Quote>
> Reliability: N/A
> OK OK OK... READ UP FOR THIS SECTION!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> This is probably the CHEAPEST PIECE OF SHIT GEAR I
> HAVE EVER USED.
> 
> I seriously do not know why after reading hundreds
> of reviews how so many people have 
> overlooked the crap construction of this thing.
> 
> Yes it is metal and aluminum, but it is cheap.
> Seriously, LOL @ european engineering and 
> craftsmanship. That is so overrated it's not even
> funny. Most european gear now just suck. 
> Stick with japanese for build quality and
> reliability. I will tell you why:
> 
> They use crap paint for the parameter labels and
> they fall off over time. The screen is 
> easily scratched! Actually it gets scratched when
> you wipe the screen! That is how bad it is.
> 
> and the KNOBS... OH MY GOD! I can't believe people
> have not mentioned this. The knobs 
> are the worst I have EVER felt. Cheap plastic! They
> feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FLIMSY.. it's 
> really that bad. Seriously imagine the worst made in
> china and Elektron machinedrum 
> knobs are that. The worst finishing i have ever
> seen. The front plate is not finished.. so 
> you be careful you can slice up your hand it's so
> sharp. Seriously, LOL @ european 
> engineering. I really hope people read this and find
> out the truth about this thing.
> 
> seriously.. i'm surprised the folks over at
> machinedrum are not going ot the shrink out of 
> GUILT everyday for charging 1300 dollars for this
> crap construction. I mean if it was 300 
> bucks I can understand.. the Korg Er1 MK2 DESTROYS
> this thing for build quality.
> 
> Customer Support: N/A
> I heard it was good. I'm selling this thing right
> away on Ebay. Apparently they have resale 
> values. I'm very very surprised.
> 
> Overall Rating: N/A
> To be fair.. it has a good interface, good sounds..
> But nothing you can't do in software.
> 
> I would not replace this thing. I say get an ER1 or
> Rackattack.. a lot better and more 
> reliable. I am so disappointed with my purchase it's
> not even funny. Seriously you don't 
> understand the true meaning of CHEAP CONSTRUCTION
> until you have seen the 
> machinedrum.
> 
> I know some of you guys will have problems with me
> caring about build quality 
> excessively.. but the thing is I need to gig with
> this thing.. and this thing does not give the 
> air of reliability. It's metal but it's cheaply
> constructed. Hey man even the FORD PINTO is 
> made out of metal.. would you buy it?
> 
> My final analysis: GOOD FEATURES, GOOD INTERFACE,
> EXCELLENT SOUND, ATROCIOUS 
> BUILD QUALITY.. JUST ATROCIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> <End Quote>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, niall
> munnelly <aleph@a...> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 03:22:43PM -0000,
> kkonkkrete wrote:
> > > 
> > > Are these really issues?  
> > 
> > in my experience, no.  i've travelled a lot with
> the MD and
> > i play it constantly, and the buttons, encoders
> and finish
> > have held up perfectly.  you'd really have to
> smack this
> > thing around all the time to see any wear and tear
> - it's
> > built like the proverbial tank.
> > 
> > -- 
> > yours,
> > niall.
> > .. .  .   .    .     .       .           .        
>     .                 .
> > aleph null.                             a simple
> insinuation around silence.
> > http://syncretism.net
> > .. .. gpg public key -
> http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 



	
		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, kkonkkrete wrote:

> (i) buttons
> (ii) rotary encoders (I know these are surface mounted, which already worries me)
> (iii) labels (paint wears off)

1. No problems.
2. All of my encoders on the MD have been replaced by Elektron. Three of 
them behaved erratically (jumping values and such), which made them change 
all of them. Note that my MD is one from the beta batch with the original 
encoders that were quite hard to tweak.
3. No problems.

/Janne

tottaly unrealiable i would opt for something more solid build as these 
machines they fall apart after a few patterns have been recorded


In a message dated 15/11/05 15:26:24, kkonkkrete@... writes:


> It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't rely on it.
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: kkonkkrete 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] MachineDrum prospective buyer: build quality ?



  So, for example the following quote from a review at harmony central (http://
  www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Elektron_ESI_AB/Machinedrum-1.html) is unfair?

  Why would someone defame a well-built instrument this way?  The comparison to the 
  Korg is particularly harsh ;-)

  :: kkonkkrete ::



  <Start Quote>
  Reliability: N/A
  OK OK OK... READ UP FOR THIS SECTION!!!!!!!!!!

  This is probably the CHEAPEST PIECE OF SHIT GEAR I HAVE EVER USED.

  I seriously do not know why after reading hundreds of reviews how so many people have 
  overlooked the crap construction of this thing.

  Yes it is metal and aluminum, but it is cheap. Seriously, LOL @ european engineering and 
  craftsmanship. That is so overrated it's not even funny. Most european gear now just suck. 
  Stick with japanese for build quality and reliability. I will tell you why:

  They use crap paint for the parameter labels and they fall off over time. The screen is 
  easily scratched! Actually it gets scratched when you wipe the screen! That is how bad it is.

  and the KNOBS... OH MY GOD! I can't believe people have not mentioned this. The knobs 
  are the worst I have EVER felt. Cheap plastic! They feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FLIMSY.. it's 
  really that bad. Seriously imagine the worst made in china and Elektron machinedrum 
  knobs are that. The worst finishing i have ever seen. The front plate is not finished.. so 
  you be careful you can slice up your hand it's so sharp. Seriously, LOL @ european 
  engineering. I really hope people read this and find out the truth about this thing.

  seriously.. i'm surprised the folks over at machinedrum are not going ot the shrink out of 
  GUILT everyday for charging 1300 dollars for this crap construction. I mean if it was 300 
  bucks I can understand.. the Korg Er1 MK2 DESTROYS this thing for build quality.

  Customer Support: N/A
  I heard it was good. I'm selling this thing right away on Ebay. Apparently they have resale 
  values. I'm very very surprised.

  Overall Rating: N/A
  To be fair.. it has a good interface, good sounds.. But nothing you can't do in software.

  I would not replace this thing. I say get an ER1 or Rackattack.. a lot better and more 
  reliable. I am so disappointed with my purchase it's not even funny. Seriously you don't 
  understand the true meaning of CHEAP CONSTRUCTION until you have seen the 
  machinedrum.

  I know some of you guys will have problems with me caring about build quality 
  excessively.. but the thing is I need to gig with this thing.. and this thing does not give the 
  air of reliability. It's metal but it's cheaply constructed. Hey man even the FORD PINTO is 
  made out of metal.. would you buy it?

  My final analysis: GOOD FEATURES, GOOD INTERFACE, EXCELLENT SOUND, ATROCIOUS 
  BUILD QUALITY.. JUST ATROCIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  <End Quote>




  --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, niall munnelly <aleph@a...> wrote:
  >
  > On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 03:22:43PM -0000, kkonkkrete wrote:
  > > 
  > > Are these really issues?  
  > 
  > in my experience, no.  i've travelled a lot with the MD and
  > i play it constantly, and the buttons, encoders and finish
  > have held up perfectly.  you'd really have to smack this
  > thing around all the time to see any wear and tear - it's
  > built like the proverbial tank.
  > 
  > -- 
  > yours,
  > niall.
  > .. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
  > aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around silence.
  > http://syncretism.net
  > .. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..
  >





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As a FORMER MDrum user, I sold my MDrum after the faceplate cut off 3 of my fingers...

I can no lnger type properly or wank off, As soon as my plane lands in Sweden, those Elektron guys ARE TOAST!!!

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: kkonkkrete 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 11:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] MachineDrum prospective buyer: build quality ?



  So, for example the following quote from a review at harmony central (http://
  www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Elektron_ESI_AB/Machinedrum-1.html) is unfair?

  Why would someone defame a well-built instrument this way?  The comparison to the 
  Korg is particularly harsh ;-)

  :: kkonkkrete ::



  <Start Quote>
  Reliability: N/A
  OK OK OK... READ UP FOR THIS SECTION!!!!!!!!!!

  This is probably the CHEAPEST PIECE OF SHIT GEAR I HAVE EVER USED.

  I seriously do not know why after reading hundreds of reviews how so many people have 
  overlooked the crap construction of this thing.

  Yes it is metal and aluminum, but it is cheap. Seriously, LOL @ european engineering and 
  craftsmanship. That is so overrated it's not even funny. Most european gear now just suck. 
  Stick with japanese for build quality and reliability. I will tell you why:

  They use crap paint for the parameter labels and they fall off over time. The screen is 
  easily scratched! Actually it gets scratched when you wipe the screen! That is how bad it is.

  and the KNOBS... OH MY GOD! I can't believe people have not mentioned this. The knobs 
  are the worst I have EVER felt. Cheap plastic! They feel SOOOOOOOOOOOOO FLIMSY.. it's 
  really that bad. Seriously imagine the worst made in china and Elektron machinedrum 
  knobs are that. The worst finishing i have ever seen. The front plate is not finished.. so 
  you be careful you can slice up your hand it's so sharp. Seriously, LOL @ european 
  engineering. I really hope people read this and find out the truth about this thing.

  seriously.. i'm surprised the folks over at machinedrum are not going ot the shrink out of 
  GUILT everyday for charging 1300 dollars for this crap construction. I mean if it was 300 
  bucks I can understand.. the Korg Er1 MK2 DESTROYS this thing for build quality.

  Customer Support: N/A
  I heard it was good. I'm selling this thing right away on Ebay. Apparently they have resale 
  values. I'm very very surprised.

  Overall Rating: N/A
  To be fair.. it has a good interface, good sounds.. But nothing you can't do in software.

  I would not replace this thing. I say get an ER1 or Rackattack.. a lot better and more 
  reliable. I am so disappointed with my purchase it's not even funny. Seriously you don't 
  understand the true meaning of CHEAP CONSTRUCTION until you have seen the 
  machinedrum.

  I know some of you guys will have problems with me caring about build quality 
  excessively.. but the thing is I need to gig with this thing.. and this thing does not give the 
  air of reliability. It's metal but it's cheaply constructed. Hey man even the FORD PINTO is 
  made out of metal.. would you buy it?

  My final analysis: GOOD FEATURES, GOOD INTERFACE, EXCELLENT SOUND, ATROCIOUS 
  BUILD QUALITY.. JUST ATROCIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  <End Quote>




  --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, niall munnelly <aleph@a...> wrote:
  >
  > On Tue, Nov 15, 2005 at 03:22:43PM -0000, kkonkkrete wrote:
  > > 
  > > Are these really issues?  
  > 
  > in my experience, no.  i've travelled a lot with the MD and
  > i play it constantly, and the buttons, encoders and finish
  > have held up perfectly.  you'd really have to smack this
  > thing around all the time to see any wear and tear - it's
  > built like the proverbial tank.
  > 
  > -- 
  > yours,
  > niall.
  > .. .  .   .    .     .       .           .             .                 .
  > aleph null.                             a simple insinuation around silence.
  > http://syncretism.net
  > .. .. gpg public key - http://www.aleph-null.net/niall.gpg .. ..
  >





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

only one way to find out if you like a piece of equipment,

TRY IT!
different strokes for different folks guys,

I find online reviews of products more biased than politicians...

If you live 2 far from the nearest MDrum, perhaps buy one used and if it sucks, resell it...
Elektron gear seems to hold value pretty well, perhaps that is an indicator of a superior product...

Personally, I don't trust what other people think of products, in my honest opinion, the Akai s612 sampler was one of my favorite products ever invented, im pretty sure however I am the only person in the world who thinks so...

Also, I would assume since this is an Elektron forum, your literally asking the choir if they like the priest, go talk to some agnostics or some shit...

as for me, i sleep with my mdrum at night in front of my fishtank, even with my beer gut rolling onto it, its still intact...

-JC
no longer wanking off...

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ruipacheco@... 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 4:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] MachineDrum prospective buyer: build quality ?


  tottaly unrealiable i would opt for something more solid build as these 
  machines they fall apart after a few patterns have been recorded


  In a message dated 15/11/05 15:26:24, kkonkkrete@... writes:


  > It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't rely on it.
  > 
  > 



  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:44 PM, Jesse wrote:

> If you live 2 far from the nearest MDrum, perhaps buy one used and  
> if it sucks, resell it...
> Elektron gear seems to hold value pretty well, perhaps that is an  
> indicator of a superior product...

or just use the 10 day money back guarantee.  if the machine is as  
crap as this HC
loser claims that it is, then it will only take 10 *minutes* to  
decide whether or not you
want to keep it.  (though if you're like everyone else, you'll be up  
all night the night
it arrives.)

> Also, I would assume since this is an Elektron forum, your  
> literally asking the choir if they like the priest, go talk to some  
> agnostics or some shit...

good point!  another good one is this: come on, think about this  
logically.  you're talking to
a bunch of *musicians* who blew over $1K on a *drum machine*!  do you  
really think
that we'd be sitting here claiming it was sweet when its a hunk of  
shit;  dedicating hours
to discussing it while we're living off of ramen to fund its  
purchase?  I mean, this is not
cheap gear and we have no money to burn yet we're happy to do so and  
think its worth
every dime.  would we do that if it was as poorly constructed as  
claimed?  playing
our odds and empty wallets against the possibility that it will have  
to be sent back
to Sweden for repair?  come on...

Yeah, a zoom drum machine...or something from toys r
us would be a better buy.

--- ruipacheco@... wrote:

> tottaly unrealiable i would opt for something more
> solid build as these 
> machines they fall apart after a few patterns have
> been recorded
> 
> 
> In a message dated 15/11/05 15:26:24,
> kkonkkrete@... writes:
> 
> 
> > It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't
> rely on it.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 



		
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.
http://farechase.yahoo.com

Thankfully our wonderful internet has coined a term for people who post inflammatory messages in online message boards...

Internet Trolls...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

really, some people get off on this kind of shit...

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: John Gellings 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] MachineDrum prospective buyer: build quality ?


  Yeah, a zoom drum machine...or something from toys r
  us would be a better buy.

  --- ruipacheco@... wrote:

  > tottaly unrealiable i would opt for something more
  > solid build as these 
  > machines they fall apart after a few patterns have
  > been recorded
  > 
  > 
  > In a message dated 15/11/05 15:26:24,
  > kkonkkrete@... writes:
  > 
  > 
  > > It's a lot to shell out for something if I can't
  > rely on it.
  > > 
  > > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
  > removed]
  > 
  > 



              
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----

  From: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:elektron-users@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of kkonkkrete
  Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 8:42 AM
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [elektron] MachineDrum prospective buyer: build quality ?



  So, for example the following quote from a review at harmony central
(http://
  www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Elektron_ESI_AB/Machinedrum-1.html) is
unfair?


  [Anthony Justman] I don't know where this guy is coming from.  If you
think that there is any basis to these comments, simply seeing an MD in
person and putting you hands on it will quickly dispel any doubts about the
machine.  It is, BY FAR, the best built quality of any music making
equipment I own.  (I had a moogerfooger pedal that was of similar quality,
but no longer own it).  Re the buttons, one has to take into account that
there is additional functionality from pushing it down and turning it.  So
there is a bit of laxity to them, but it does not feel "cheap".


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> > Also, I would assume since this is an Elektron forum, your  
> > literally asking the choir if they like the priest, go talk to some  
> > agnostics or some shit...
> 
> good point!  another good one is this: come on, think about this  
> logically.  you're talking to
> a bunch of *musicians* who blew over $1K on a *drum machine*!  do you  
> really think
> that we'd be sitting here claiming it was sweet when its a hunk of  
> shit;  dedicating hours
> to discussing it while we're living off of ramen to fund its  
> purchase?  I mean, this is not
> cheap gear and we have no money to burn yet we're happy to do so and  
> think its worth
> every dime.  would we do that if it was as poorly constructed as  
> claimed?  playing
> our odds and empty wallets against the possibility that it will have  
> to be sent back
> to Sweden for repair?  come on...

Fair point, of course, but I can still imagine being honest about the shortcomings of 
something I worship.  I have DIY and Doepfer gear that is irreplaceable in terms of sound, 
but I would openly admit the build quality is inferior (by the way, plenty of Doepfer gear is 
excellently built, this was just an example).

Anyway, it's true that once you've spent over a thousand on something, cognitive 
dissonance begins to kick in.  This can lead to two polar opposite responses: 

(1) you become a fervid evangelist, publicly endowing the thing with mystical abilities 
beyond its true intrinsic worth
(2) you become a miserly wretch, publicly slandering the thing to stink off interested 
parties so you can hoard its metaphysical powers all to yourself and not let anyone else 
into the clique.  Strikes me, this could also play a role in some of those postings .....

Anyway, thanks for your helpful comments, ladies and gents.  I'm convinced too, that the 
sound and interface are second to none.  Build quality was my issue --- and the replies 
confirm my instinct that I just have to try this thing out for myself.  However, I'm pretty 
sure now that it's only a matter of time before I join the ranks of slavvering MD addicts.....  
Anyone willing to take my left kidney in part exchange ?

:: kkonkkrete ::

On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:44 PM, Jesse wrote:

> Personally, I don't trust what other people think of products, in  
> my honest opinion, the Akai s612 sampler was one of my favorite  
> products ever invented, im pretty sure however I am the only person  
> in the world who thinks so...

No way!  I've got one mounted in the rack right above my MD :)

c.

Hey, I love the S612 also!  I just got my MD back from Sweden today. 
It's upgraded to UW!  It only took 3 weeks, not too long.  They sent
it back to me UPS express, two day shipping.

About the MD build quality. I am worried about my volume knob, it
feels very very flimsy.  It's wobbling like it wants to break off at
any moment.  I am just very careful whenever I touch it.  I don't feel
comfortable taking the MD on the road because of that volume knob. 
All the other knobs are made of light plastic, but work and feel just
fine.


--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Corey Appleby
<digitalwank@m...> wrote:

>
> 
> On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:44 PM, Jesse wrote:
> 
> > Personally, I don't trust what other people think of products, in  
> > my honest opinion, the Akai s612 sampler was one of my favorite  
> > products ever invented, im pretty sure however I am the only person  
> > in the world who thinks so...
> 
> No way!  I've got one mounted in the rack right above my MD :)
> 
> c.
>

I have some buttons which, when turned forward slowly, turn backward 
actually!!(and vice versa).. very frustrating sometimes, when you eg 
touch the filter to silence a sound out slowly.. The problem is less 
when pushing while turning.. I just bought it about 3 weeks ago. But 
that is the one and only problem: The oppurtunities of this machine are 
insane!
-chris



johan_et_pirlouit wrote:

> Hey, I love the S612 also!  I just got my MD back from Sweden today.
> It's upgraded to UW!  It only took 3 weeks, not too long.  They sent
> it back to me UPS express, two day shipping.
>
> About the MD build quality. I am worried about my volume knob, it
> feels very very flimsy.  It's wobbling like it wants to break off at
> any moment.  I am just very careful whenever I touch it.  I don't feel
> comfortable taking the MD on the road because of that volume knob.
> All the other knobs are made of light plastic, but work and feel just
> fine.
>
>
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Corey Appleby
> <digitalwank@m...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Nov 15, 2005, at 6:44 PM, Jesse wrote:
> >
> > > Personally, I don't trust what other people think of products, in 
> > > my honest opinion, the Akai s612 sampler was one of my favorite 
> > > products ever invented, im pretty sure however I am the only person 
> > > in the world who thinks so...
> >
> > No way!  I've got one mounted in the rack right above my MD :)
> >
> > c.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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I wouldn't worry too much about your new evolver.  Mine has been just fine sitting nicely 'longside my elektron trio.
Just don't get abusive.  


sean




I didn't realize that about the Evolver knobs.  Having just purchased  
one and waiting for delivery that kinda sucks.

But I'll second what Scott said about the MD.  I've had mine for 4  
years and it's a tank.

Yeah, if you're keeping it in the studio, it's no biggie.  If you're 
gigging it, though, it might be a good idea to do something about it. 
I'm planning on rubber cementing some little cardstock strips to the 
knob posts so they fit more snugly.

/Scott

Sean wrote:

> I wouldn't worry too much about your new evolver.  Mine has been just fine sitting nicely 'longside my elektron trio.
> Just don't get abusive.  
> 
> 
> sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't realize that about the Evolver knobs.  Having just purchased  
> one and waiting for delivery that kinda sucks.
> 
> But I'll second what Scott said about the MD.  I've had mine for 4  
> years and it's a tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
>

That's a good idea for the cardstock.  I never play shows so I tend  
to baby my gear but I may do that anyway.

Anyone here do stuff with just the Evolver and MachineDrum?  I'm  
thinking about hooking the two up and using the MD sequencer to drive  
the Evolver.  I'm getting to the point where I feel like having a  
computer in the equation is just slowing me down.

c.

On Nov 18, 2005, at 11:58 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Yeah, if you're keeping it in the studio, it's no biggie.  If you're
> gigging it, though, it might be a good idea to do something about it.
> I'm planning on rubber cementing some little cardstock strips to the
> knob posts so they fit more snugly.
>
> /Scott
>
> Sean wrote:
>> I wouldn't worry too much about your new evolver.  Mine has been  
>> just fine sitting nicely 'longside my elektron trio.
>> Just don't get abusive.
>>
>>
>> sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I didn't realize that about the Evolver knobs.  Having just purchased
>> one and waiting for delivery that kinda sucks.
>>
>> But I'll second what Scott said about the MD.  I've had mine for 4
>> years and it's a tank.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

> 
> Anyone here do stuff with just the Evolver and MachineDrum?  I'm  
> thinking about hooking the two up and using the MD sequencer to drive  
> the Evolver.  I'm getting to the point where I feel like having a  
> computer in the equation is just slowing me down.

Seems like the internal sequencer in the Evo could do most of the detail 
work if you just send Note On from the MD.  I was really close to buying 
MD + Evo, but I ended up going with the Mono.  I'm really happy about 
that!  I'm sure the MD + Evo is a killer rig, though, especially if 
you're gigging and improvising.

/Scott

On Nov 18, 2005, at 2:40 PM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> that!  I'm sure the MD + Evo is a killer rig, though, especially if
> you're gigging and improvising.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  I'm not gigging so much (although  
I'd like to start) but I've found that I generally make my best stuff  
when I just improvise and goof off for a bit.  Having to deal with a  
computer takes too much spontaneity away from it.  Basically going to  
use just the Evolver, MD, Sidstation, and KP-2 all plugged into a mixer.

c.

> computer takes too much spontaneity away from it.  Basically going to  
> use just the Evolver, MD, Sidstation, and KP-2 all plugged into a mixer.

Oh yeah, that's plenty o' stuff.  Record your sessions and share with 
the group!

/Scott

On Nov 18, 2005, at 11:58 AM, Scott Kellogg wrote:

> Yeah, if you're keeping it in the studio, it's no biggie.  If you're
> gigging it, though, it might be a good idea to do something about it.
> I'm planning on rubber cementing some little cardstock strips to the
> knob posts so they fit more snugly.

you could also just glue the knobs to the posts with rubber cement.
I super-glued the knobs to the posts on my Oxygen8 for the same
reason.  but that thing, I'd never worry about having to take it apart
because if it broke I'd prolly replace it before repairing it.  not  
so with
the Evolver.  so I'd say *don't* use super-glue, *do* use
rubber cement :-)

i just moved to NY and left my comp at home, i'm running my MD+Mono+Sid+Evolver and it's great.  I find that i'm a bit more productive in the writing process this way.

sean

 Having to deal with a  
computer takes too much spontaneity away from it.  Basically going to  
use just the Evolver, MD, Sidstation, and KP-2 all plugged into a mixer.

c.