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Re: [elektron] MD noise

Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-04 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

>
>
>Hello... a few weeks back, I noticed a discussion concerning the 
>noise floor on the MD... I am close to being able to buy one, but 
>am somewhat dismayed by these discussions......Some people 
>were saying that it was unacceptably noisy, others said it was no 
>big deal.....At the md's price, I cannot afford something 
>unrecordably noisy
>
You know the Sidstation? Well, for most, that's unacceptable. The MD is 
acceptable, but noisier than, let's say, the Access Virus.

>Anyone know if Elektron is aware 
>of this, and if so, are they rectifying the problem??
>
I've mailed them about it... they said it's mainly because the MD's 
outputs are so hot, which is indeed true, but imo there's still a 
difference between my Virus and MD. If it might make you feel "better", 
I can say that you definitely don't need a gate... it's not "that" noisy.

Bye,
J


-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-04 by Rui Peixoto

>From: Joeri Vankeirsbilck <joeri@...>
> >Hello... a few weeks back, I noticed a discussion concerning the
> >noise floor on the MD... I am close to being able to buy one, but
> >am somewhat dismayed by these discussions......Some people
> >were saying that it was unacceptably noisy, others said it was no
> >big deal.....At the md's price, I cannot afford something
> >unrecordably noisy

Honestly, mine doesn\ufffdt make noise at all. I\ufffdm only using the main outs  
though. If you want a killer drum sequencer capable of making good drum 
sounds get it. It\ufffds not like the attack though. For each machine you have 
only a few fixed parameters that you can tweak. There\ufffds no control over 
oscilators for example, but it covers a wide range of sounds and the fixed 
parameters are well choosen for each machine. Let\ufffds put it this way, I 
haven\ufffdt thought of any sound that I couldn\ufffdt get out of it.
But the killer thing are the parameter locks on the sequencer. You\ufffdll see 
that you\ufffdll start making all your beats in there.
Rui

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Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-04 by falabala66

Thank you Joeri and Rui. for your replies concerning the MD's 
noise floor..;... I'm gonna try and ply with one myself so's I can 
decide.....
 Thanks agaiN!
Jeremy

Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Flavio Alvarez

Hi, Rui
> 
> Like Joeri. I'm in the process of getting a Machine
Drum. I've also been intrigued by the new Hardware
Attack (with my MAM sq-16 to run it). What do you mean
when you say the MD is no like the Attack? You think
the Attack sounds can be tweaked more? Are better? I
do Electro (which I know the MD can do for sure) and
Minimal Techno Speedy J style (OK, not that good, but
loud and minimal) and the noise does not bother me
that much for making techno, but the I want to TWEAK
SHIT UP. Which do you think is better? Sorry for the
long question
Sr. Minimo
> 


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RE: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Cryogenick

I haven't used an attack yet, but im willing to bet that the MD is more
tweakable, and prolly has a much wider spread of sound possibilities



Kyle Riggs/Cryogenick
maker of odd noises
http://www.Cryogenick.net/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavio Alvarez [mailto:srminimo@...]
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 5:08 PM
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [elektron] MD noise

Hi, Rui
>
> Like Joeri. I'm in the process of getting a Machine
Drum. I've also been intrigued by the new Hardware
Attack (with my MAM sq-16 to run it). What do you mean
when you say the MD is no like the Attack? You think
the Attack sounds can be tweaked more? Are better? I
do Electro (which I know the MD can do for sure) and
Minimal Techno Speedy J style (OK, not that good, but
loud and minimal) and the noise does not bother me
that much for making techno, but the I want to TWEAK
SHIT UP. Which do you think is better? Sorry for the
long question
Sr. Minimo
>


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Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Rui Peixoto

No prob Flavio.
What I meant is that the MD\ufffds synth engine is not as deep as the attack one. 
But it\ufffds really flexible as well. It\ufffds just different. The different sounds 
are not patches of a single synth (like in attack). Instead, you have 
different machines, that can be of different synth types (sampled, FM, 
subtractive, and a new great stuff that emulates acoustic instruments). Each 
machine has different parameters to tweak. After you get familiar with the 
machines (there are about 40) you build rythms on the fly. Now, the 
sequencer is *THE* shit. It\ufffds amazing and this is where it shines. There\ufffds 
no way to do the same stuff with the MAM. For live use as well. It never 
clips the little bastard. Always runnin.
For tecno it\ufffds probably the best tool you\ufffdll find around. Against the combo 
you mentioned, I\ufffdd always go for the MD. I had a microQ, and the four knobs 
are a bit limiting. Besides, you\ufffdd have to join in a compressor and a 
reverb/delay box, so the price would be about the same. Don\ufffdt hesitate.
Here are some samples of some stuff I\ufffdve been doing. All drum parts are from 
the MD.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fin-music/files/Rui/newdub_A%2011%2B12_1.mp3

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fin-music/files/Rui/coffeebreak.mp3

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fin-music/files/Rui/untitled1.mp3



>From: Flavio Alvarez <srminimo@...>
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [elektron] MD noise
>Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:07:50 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi, Rui
> >
> > Like Joeri. I'm in the process of getting a Machine
>Drum. I've also been intrigued by the new Hardware
>Attack (with my MAM sq-16 to run it). What do you mean
>when you say the MD is no like the Attack? You think
>the Attack sounds can be tweaked more? Are better? I
>do Electro (which I know the MD can do for sure) and
>Minimal Techno Speedy J style (OK, not that good, but
>loud and minimal) and the noise does not bother me
>that much for making techno, but the I want to TWEAK
>SHIT UP. Which do you think is better? Sorry for the
>long question
>Sr. Minimo
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
>http://auctions.yahoo.com


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Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by shifty@gweep.net

> Honestly, mine doesn\ufffdt make noise at all. 

mine, neither.

> If you want a killer drum sequencer capable of making good drum 
> sounds get it. It\ufffds not like the attack though. For each machine you have 

what do you mean the attack?  I do wish some more of the machines
had attack parameter.


> Let\ufffds put it this way, I 
> haven\ufffdt thought of any sound that I couldn\ufffdt get out of it.

the only thing I really wish for that doesn't exist is a wood-hit
sound!  that would realy round out the sound.


> But the killer thing are the parameter locks on the sequencer. You\ufffdll see 
> that you\ufffdll start making all your beats in there.

I often describe the MD as being like Fruity Loops in a box.  Even if you
only use the parameter locks to change up the last hit in a bar, it
makes a really engaging loop.  and let's not forget the sequencer...mmmm

Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Flavio Alvarez

A million thanks Rui. The original plan still stands.
Machine Drum it is. By the way I tried listening to
your tracks but was not a member of that thing. I'll
join and listen to them later for sure.
Many thanks
Sr Minimo

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Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Joeri Vankeirsbilck

Hi Preto,

>I was the one who put the noise question for the first time 2 weeks ago, and here are some thoughts:
>- The MD is a very flexible and powerfull drum machine. 
>
Definitely.

>- The MD is far from having a good building quality. (Not even close to a nord for example)
>
Huh??? It's built like a tank! I personally think its build quality is 
better than Nord (I only know Nord 1 though).
The hardware only issue for me is the knobs: both the quality (hard to 
turn and one is defective on my unit... I still have to return it) and 
the spacing between the knobs. The knobs are too close to eachother.

>- The alternative outs are not usable for 2 reasons: 1- The noise floor when using 6 outs is RIDICULOUS (louder than my TB 303!) 2- If you use any out separably (A or B or C ....) there is a decay noise (try hard panning a kick drum on st out to L and solo R on your mixer...) which really interfers with any decent sound design you may want to do.
>
I think you have a defective unit! The noise on the outputs of my unit 
is definitely not that high.

>- Apart from that there are strange noises coming from inside the MD caused by the efx card and/or LFO.
>
Yes, that was the noise I've always been refering to.

>I have adressed Elektron with these issues and I was amased that they did not noticed before.
>
Perhaps because you have a defective unit?

>Also consider the cool T-shirt that comes with it.
>
Hmmm... I didn't get one. :-)

>Peace
>Preto from Barcelona
>
Aaah, lucky you. I LOVE Barcelona! Great city. :-))))

Cheers,
Joeri

-- 
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM

Re: [elektron] MD noise, hey shifty!

2002-02-05 by Flavio Alvarez

Hey Shifty, Greetings. I know of you from the Sp-808
group. How's the Machine Drum for you? Is it all you
wanted from a Drum Machine?




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RE: [elektron] MD noise, hey shifty!

2002-02-05 by Cryogenick

I don't know about shifty, but for me, the machinedrum was all I wanted in a
drum machine and SOOOO MUCH MORE



Kyle Riggs/Cryogenick
maker of odd noises
http://www.Cryogenick.net/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavio Alvarez [mailto:srminimo@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:04 AM
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [elektron] MD noise, hey shifty!

Hey Shifty, Greetings. I know of you from the Sp-808
group. How's the Machine Drum for you? Is it all you
wanted from a Drum Machine?




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Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Preto

Hi everyone,
I was the one who put the noise question for the first time 2 weeks ago, and here are some thoughts:
- The MD is a very flexible and powerfull drum machine. 
- The MD is far from having a good building quality. (Not even close to a nord for example)
- The alternative outs are not usable for 2 reasons: 1- The noise floor when using 6 outs is RIDICULOUS (louder than my TB 303!) 2- If you use any out separably (A or B or C ....) there is a decay noise (try hard panning a kick drum on st out to L and solo R on your mixer...) which really interfers with any decent sound design you may want to do.
- Apart from that there are strange noises coming from inside the MD caused by the efx card and/or LFO.
- The MD has (at least with the beta 1.09v) midi issues: Difficult to sync with soft seq. with the MD as Master.

I have adressed Elektron with these issues and I was amased that they did not noticed before. At this point they are still trying to find out what it is. They could not guaranty that they were software related (therefore reparable with a OS update) and they told me that it may well be structural hardware problem. 
In my opinion they rushed on releasing the MD and saying that it was "the best drum machine ever..." instead of adressing this problems and making it perfect. Than people would say that the MD is the best. I was quite disapointed with Elektron regarding this!

After considering all this I was seriously thinking about returning my MD (money back). BUT I DID´NT!
During this last week I worked on a song with the MD using just the main st out, all the master efx levels at 0 and using the MD as a sound module (logic as sequencer), and I the result surprised me. It sounds really good and you can easily get were you want, even to further new places. Imagine fruit loops flexibility with all sorts off amazing and powerfull sound possibilities!  So I´m still with the MD.
Also consider the cool T-shirt that comes with it.

Peace
Preto from Barcelona
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Flavio Alvarez <srminimo@...>
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 5-Fev-02 16:32
Subject: Re: [elektron] MD noise



A million thanks Rui. The original plan still stands.
Machine Drum it is. By the way I tried listening to
your tracks but was not a member of that thing. I'll
join and listen to them later for sure.
Many thanks
Sr Minimo

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Re: [elektron] MD noise, hey shifty!

2002-02-05 by shifty@gweep.net

> Hey Shifty, Greetings. I know of you from the Sp-808
> group. How's the Machine Drum for you? Is it all you
> wanted from a Drum Machine?

well, I honestly wish for a drum machine that lets you
upload your own dsp modules into it :)    but other
than that, I'm quite impressed with the MD.  the best
aspects are the File System/Memory---if you pull out
the plug while its on then plug it back in, it comes
up right where you left off.  that kind of thing is
sweet.  Also, the reproducibiliity is lovely---I work
with a lot of other HW that doesn't let you reproduce
the crazy sounds you make- it's only stored on your
tape, but with the MD you can always go back and play 
your song for others exactly like you made it.

I find the OS/GUI very quick to navigate----I'm wondering
lately if the LFO button should create exit from the 
EFX config screen, since it's difficult/impossible to 
edit synth/effects/routing blindly in the efx config n
page, that would make it a little smoother, am I right?

Also, I've found the MD integrates nicely with other
equipment-  I have mine connected to two mono synths
without an extra mixer.  my MD also sequences my
sidstation and triggers the arpegg input on my Korg
Mono/Poly.  I send the MD output into my 808, and often
use the 808 as a clock master.  I have the MD, sidsta,
and an FR-777 setup on a single small table, almost like
two turntables and a DJ mixer.  the 808 is next to them,
and when I play out, I usually only bring the 808.

of course you can do most of this with a laptop if you want,
but then you have to deal with microsoft crap, boot times,
shutdowns, OS upgrades, network configuration and lots
of stupid 1/8" adaptors and MIDI dongles etc etc etc.

Oh yeah, I also like the echo in the effect proc. of the MD.
it's very flexible, from dub echoes to ping-pong to trancey
3/8ths rhythms, etc.  The fact that the delay time is specifed
in N/128ths of the tempo is very useful, too.  Thereoretically,
it could be used like a phaser/flanger like many older hybrid
ana/dig delays, but I haven't actually tried it.

Okay, and the LFO's are a very nice surprise on the MD...let's
of opportunity for adding life and motion to tracks.  even
if it's just a light pan...you can do things like put 
light random distortion on sawtooth waveform to make it
sound like 50's fuzz guitar.  or you can add three square 
wave LFO's together to a single pitch source for arpeggiation.
I just wish the LFO's could be made to go even s l o w e r,
because I like ambient stuff.

only thing silly about the MD is the classis/extended button.
I never use that.

Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Rui Peixoto

>what do you mean the attack?  I do wish some more of the machines
>had attack parameter.

waldorf attack. It\ufffds a drum soft synth.


>the only thing I really wish for that doesn't exist is a wood-hit
>sound!  that would realy round out the sound.

maybe you can make a similar one using a filter with really short width and 
medium Q. Search for the right frequency and you might get what you want.

Rui

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Re: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by mizatch

Hi everyone,
I was the one who put the noise question for the first time 2 weeks ago, and
here are some thoughts:

>- The alternative outs are not usable for 2 reasons: 1- The noise floor when
using 6 >outs is RIDICULOUS (louder than my TB 303!) 2- If you use any out
separably (A or B or >C ....) there is a decay noise (try hard panning a
kick drum on st out to L and solo R on >your mixer...) which really
interfers with any decent sound design you may want to do.

It is really bad,  I don't think a lot of people on this list have been
tracking multiple outs, or recording multiple single sounds and listening
back carefully Run a oscilloscope on MD with no sounds on,  it is about 40db
S/N.  There is a very low noisefloor on this machine, and elektron will tell
you that themselves.  Anal engineers will hate this machine for that.  As
for me, with the amazing midi outlay, you can work around and do all yr
editing in yr seqeuncer and track it in a stereo file and it's fine.  I wish
it had more s/n, but it doesn't, and that's not changeable, not a big deal
at all to me, but to some..........

>- Apart from that there are strange noises coming from inside the MD caused by
the >efx card and/or LFO.

this is a bad problem that has not even been acknowledged by elektron yet


>- The MD has (at least with the beta 1.09v) midi issues: Difficult to sync with
soft >seq. with the MD as Master.

1.1 seems to be better, but it still has permanently altered (ruined) some
of my kits when messing around with MIDI/sysex.  there are some obscure
random bugs in midimachines and sysex

>I have adressed Elektron with these issues and I was amased that they did not
noticed >before. At this point they are still trying to find out what it is.

they are definitely not telling the whole story then, because i have brought
up these questions with them several times....i have also been told 'no one
else has complained'  This seems out of character for them, as their the
support has been amazing.

They could not guaranty that they were software related (therefore reparable
with a OS update) and they told me that it may well be structural hardware
problem. 
In my opinion they rushed on releasing the MD and saying that it was "the
best drum machine ever..." instead of adressing this problems and making it
perfect. Than people would say that the MD is the best. I was quite
disapointed with Elektron regarding this!

After considering all this I was seriously thinking about returning my MD
(money back). BUT I DID´NT!
During this last week I worked on a song with the MD using just the main st
out, all the master efx levels at 0 and using the MD as a sound module
(logic as sequencer), and I the result surprised me. It sounds really good
and you can easily get were you want, even to further new places. Imagine
fruit loops flexibility with all sorts off amazing and powerfull sound
possibilities!  So I´m still with the MD.


there are a lot of things wrong with it that frustrate me, but it is still
the best piece of hardware out there.......I have faith in them, but am not
impressed they are saying to you no one has brought this up when i have sent
them audio files in december clearly documenting the panning/ alt out
problems, why lie?

jason








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [elektron] MD noise

2002-02-05 by Cryogenick

> waldorf attack. It\ufffds a drum soft synth.

actually, now its also a hardware unit too, waldorf released it at NAMM


Kyle Riggs/Cryogenick
maker of odd noises
http://www.Cryogenick.net/
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Rui Peixoto [mailto:rupix@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 12:54 PM
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [elektron] MD noise

>what do you mean the attack?  I do wish some more of the machines
>had attack parameter.

waldorf attack. It\ufffds a drum soft synth.


>the only thing I really wish for that doesn't exist is a wood-hit
>sound!  that would realy round out the sound.

maybe you can make a similar one using a filter with really short width and
medium Q. Search for the right frequency and you might get what you want.

Rui

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Re: [elektron] MD noise, hey shifty!

2002-02-05 by Flavio Alvarez

Shifty and Cryogenic
Thanks both. You've been a lot of help. I've been
looking at this machine for the longest time and have
been lusting after it from day one, as it seems all
that I've ever wanted. I should have mine in about a
month's time through Novamusik and I can't wait to
plug it up to my Polymorph and make some weird shit
with them, so I got into the group to see what you
guys were saying about it. Many thanks for all the
info. I'll be back soon wit my own thoughts.

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