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improving teh midi machines?

improving teh midi machines?

2002-12-09 by zerozillion.net

hi users and abusers!

lately i tried to create some music without pc attached, the machinedrum as
head of my set, controlling a sidstation, and an ensoniq esq-1. i played
around for some hours... imho the midi machines could be improved a bit.
building up a melody line is some kind of trial and error and it really
takes a long time to get the final result i imagined (if i compare to a
piano roll on pc for example).

yes, i know, it's a drummachine, not a groovebox... but what for example
speaks against that the 16 step keys could be misused for entering pitch
data via a special key combination...?

for me the md is so much of an all purpose machine, it would really be great
to have better possibilities when controlling & sequencing external gear.

ideas/opinions?


greetz from snowy austria,

gert aka sid / http://www.zerozillion.net

Re: [elektron] improving teh midi machines?

2002-12-09 by drK

On 12/9/02 1:54 PM, "zerozillion.net" <sledgemoor@...> wrote:

> hi users and abusers!
> 
> lately i tried to create some music without pc attached, the machinedrum as
> head of my set, controlling a sidstation, and an ensoniq esq-1. i played
> around for some hours... imho the midi machines could be improved a bit.
> building up a melody line is some kind of trial and error and it really
> takes a long time to get the final result i imagined (if i compare to a
> piano roll on pc for example).
> 
> yes, i know, it's a drummachine, not a groovebox... but what for example
> speaks against that the 16 step keys could be misused for entering pitch
> data via a special key combination...?
> 
> for me the md is so much of an all purpose machine, it would really be great
> to have better possibilities when controlling & sequencing external gear.
> 
> ideas/opinions?
> 

I pretty much took the plunge on the MD because of the MIDI machines,
strange as that might seem to some.  Don't get this wrong, the percussive
synthesis options on the MD are mind-boggling but then again there is a lot
of very nice MIDI control features buried inside that are unique in hardware
step sequencers.

I think that there might be more "correct" way to look at the MIDI features.
if you want more general-purpose MIDI sequencing there are other places to
look, both hardware or software, both inexpensive and expensive.  Step
sequencers are a little less easy to come-by, especially ones that can do
sixteen tracks of polyphony sequencing with complete step-by-step control
over up to 24 parameters (+-), all done in real-time while the sequence is
playing.

Part of the "disappointment" may be that you are not familiar with this
style of sequencing.  The historical predecessor was the analog step
sequencer where each of the steps had some number of knobs (usually three)
each of which controlled some parameter like pitch, filter cutoff... you get
the idea.  These were sequencers made as much to be played in real-time as
programmed.  In other words it was/is quite common for someone to change the
knobs while the sequence is playing as part of the performance.  This too is
part of the appeal of the MD's MIDI machines (and really the entire
instrument).  Even if it is not for a performance, be it a live or studio
one, it still is an effect way to discover new music ideas and flesh them
out.  For some it is a lot easier than grabbing say little colored
rectangles in a screen and dragging them to a new position.

Most of the other step sequencers now available, like for example those in
the E-Tribes series, do not offer the ease of grid-style programming of
rhythm, pitch, and some number of voicing parameters.  This makes the MD's
implementation fairly unique.

This is not to say that I consider the MD implementation without flaws.
There are some glaring problems with the MIDI control that hopefully will
one day be fix or at least improved.  But as a starting place it it already
ahead of most everything else out there, with the possible exception of the
beloved NOTRON which unfortunately is no longer available.

So I'd say give it another shot.  Approach programming your melodies and
basslines as a more experimental "how it sounds" exercise, relying
exclusively on your ear and not your eyes.  Work in pattern lengths of 16 or
less so that you have each step instantly at your fingertips.  Don't be
afraid to use other "sequencing aids" after the MD output.  For example
using the MD to drive the internal arpeggiator in a synth module.  This is
not needed of course but the combination can be can be pretty cool.

My biggest wishes (applies to all of the MD sequencing features), besides
bug-fixes: independent track lengths and independent track clock dividers.
With those two additions this might be the killer HW step sequencer!


drk

www.delora.com/music
www.mp3.com/zdrk
drk.iuma.com

Re: [elektron] improving teh midi machines?

2002-12-10 by analogback <gehayman@hotmail.com>

I pretty much took the plunge on the MD because of the MIDI machines,
> strange as that might seem to some.  Don't get this wrong, the 
percussive
> synthesis options on the MD are mind-boggling but then again there 
is a lot
> of very nice MIDI control features buried inside that are unique 
in hardware
> step sequencers.
> 
> I think that there might be more "correct" way to look at the MIDI 
features.
> if you want more general-purpose MIDI sequencing there are other 
places to
> look, both hardware or software, both inexpensive and expensive.  
Step
> sequencers are a little less easy to come-by, especially ones that 
can do
> sixteen tracks of polyphony sequencing with complete step-by-step 
control
> over up to 24 parameters (+-), all done in real-time while the 
sequence is
> playing.
> 
> Part of the "disappointment" may be that you are not familiar with 
this
> style of sequencing.  The historical predecessor was the analog 
step
> sequencer where each of the steps had some number of knobs 
(usually three)
> each of which controlled some parameter like pitch, filter 
cutoff... you get
> the idea.  These were sequencers made as much to be played in real-
time as
> programmed.  In other words it was/is quite common for someone to 
change the
> knobs while the sequence is playing as part of the performance.  
This too is
> part of the appeal of the MD's MIDI machines (and really the entire
> instrument).  Even if it is not for a performance, be it a live or 
studio
> one, it still is an effect way to discover new music ideas and 
flesh them
> out.  For some it is a lot easier than grabbing say little colored
> rectangles in a screen and dragging them to a new position.
> 
> Most of the other step sequencers now available, like for example 
those in
> the E-Tribes series, do not offer the ease of grid-style 
programming of
> rhythm, pitch, and some number of voicing parameters.  This makes 
the MD's
> implementation fairly unique.
> 
> This is not to say that I consider the MD implementation without 
flaws.
> There are some glaring problems with the MIDI control that 
hopefully will
> one day be fix or at least improved.  But as a starting place it 
it already
> ahead of most everything else out there, with the possible 
exception of the
> beloved NOTRON which unfortunately is no longer available.
> 
> So I'd say give it another shot.  Approach programming your 
melodies and
> basslines as a more experimental "how it sounds" exercise, relying
> exclusively on your ear and not your eyes.  Work in pattern 
lengths of 16 or
> less so that you have each step instantly at your fingertips.  
Don't be
> afraid to use other "sequencing aids" after the MD output.  For 
example
> using the MD to drive the internal arpeggiator in a synth module.  
This is
> not needed of course but the combination can be can be pretty cool.
> 
> My biggest wishes (applies to all of the MD sequencing features), 
besides
> bug-fixes: independent track lengths and independent track clock 
dividers.
> With those two additions this might be the killer HW step 
sequencer!
> 

hi, very interesting post! i am going to buy a machinedrum in the 
next few weeks and plan to use it as main sequencer alongside jomox 
xbase 09 which has 3 very basic sequencer tracks. the main reason i 
just sold my rm1x is because the grid record mode did not operate 
real-time ie. without stopping & starting, this is very painful. as 
i understand the machinedrum is capable of this, is this correct? 
btw thanks for the information above - the lack of independent track 
lengths is a bit of a shock to me but perhaps we can work around 
this. also if anyone has any other info about limitations or 
features of MIDI MACHINES i would greatly appreciate your reply.
cheers gab

Re: [elektron] improving teh midi machines?

2002-12-10 by endlessnessisticman <endlessnessisticman

Yes the non stop sequencing is great on the MD.  This is the main 
reason I'm getting rid of my MPC2000.  Although the mpc is much more 
powerfull in sequencing, I know I can do the same with my MD.  As for 
the limitations of the midi machines, I have nothing on hand right 
now.  I just wish I could edit the sequences from a larger monitor.  
Of course I never used a soft sequencer for long periods of time.  It 
would just be helpful to make whole songs.  

I was wondering if the realtime recording on the MD is possible on 
the MIDI machines with other gear?  I tried with my Indigo2 but the 
Indigo always makes the MD change kits.  I know I have to set the 
Indigo to something with the midi menus.  How can I stop the MD from 
changing kits?  Why does it change KITS and not something else?

> hi, very interesting post! i am going to buy a machinedrum in the 
> next few weeks and plan to use it as main sequencer alongside jomox 
> xbase 09 which has 3 very basic sequencer tracks. the main reason i 
> just sold my rm1x is because the grid record mode did not operate 
> real-time ie. without stopping & starting, this is very painful. as 
> i understand the machinedrum is capable of this, is this correct? 
> btw thanks for the information above - the lack of independent 
track 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> lengths is a bit of a shock to me but perhaps we can work around 
> this. also if anyone has any other info about limitations or 
> features of MIDI MACHINES i would greatly appreciate your reply.
> cheers gab

Re: [elektron] improving teh midi machines?

2002-12-10 by wayneferrer <wayneferrer@yahoo.com>

As for as I'm concerned, midi machines are fine the way they are, 
that is the way you program them. It's rather new, imho, hence 
allowing you to write rather new basslines. With special tones and 
tunes. If I want something precise, that's not made on an almost 
random mode, I use a soft bassline synth (eg Bassline, which is more 
neutral than Rebirth, but less easy to program)and retranscript the 
fine line into the MD. I like it that way. Scientific feel, or 
something. Funny anyway. But it takes a little more time. 
Yo-

Re: [elektron] improving teh midi machines?

2002-12-10 by Alan Cannistraro

> I was wondering if the realtime recording on the MD is possible on
> the MIDI machines with other gear?  I tried with my Indigo2 but the
> Indigo always makes the MD change kits.  I know I have to set the
> Indigo to something with the midi menus.  How can I stop the MD from
> changing kits?  Why does it change KITS and not something else?

I tried the exact same thing on my Supernova.  You'll have to go into 
the global MIDI settings for the MD and turn off "program change" or 
something like that.  That'll prevent the external device from changing 
kits on your Supernova.  Once I did that, it all worked fine.

As far as controlling the parameter values themselves from the 
Supernova (in your case, the Indigo), I wasn't able to tweak the knobs 
and get the MD to record them.  I had to map the MD knobs to the 
Supernova MIDI control values that I wanted to change and tweak from 
the MD.  Too bad - that would have been pretty sweet.  But don't get me 
wrong - it still works well.

Al

Re: [elektron] improving teh midi machines?

2002-12-12 by Crackpot

> My biggest wishes (applies to all of the MD sequencing features), besides
> bug-fixes: independent track lengths and independent track clock dividers.

I like that idea so much I made my own.  20 patterns, 6ix tracks all different speeds,
different lengths with ping-pong option, and 21 steps (why stick to boring 16?)

watch out for my next CD, it will penelope!


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