Elektron Musical Instruments

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4pgq6/mm/mm.htm

 >-[

I've got a LASER, Earthman! wrote:
> le 28/09/2003 23:16, damon \ufffd damon@... a \ufffdcrit :
>
>>> -[
>
> I may add:
>
> =:F
>
> Dr R. Moog stopped these resales on the signature edition of the
> Voyager when one supposed customer was selling it's turn in the queue
> for one.
>
> This time it's a broken contract between the "happy beta tester" and
> Elektron. The beta tester is not supposed to resale but help the
> debugging.

I was wondering: did Electron ever officially tell the 100 buyers that they
were, in fact, beta-testers?

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

le 28/09/2003 23:16, damon à damon@... a écrit :

>> -[

I may add:

=:F

Dr R. Moog stopped these resales on the signature edition of the Voyager
when one supposed customer was selling it's turn in the queue for one.

This time it's a broken contract between the "happy beta tester" and
Elektron. The beta tester is not supposed to resale but help the debugging.

grrrr

Denis U]

================================================
lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org

I've got a LASER, Earthman! wrote:

>le 28/09/2003 23:16, damon \ufffd damon@... a \ufffdcrit :
>
>  
>
>>>-[
>>>      
>>>
>
>I may add:
>
>=:F
>
>Dr R. Moog stopped these resales on the signature edition of the Voyager
>when one supposed customer was selling it's turn in the queue for one.
>
>This time it's a broken contract between the "happy beta tester" and
>Elektron. The beta tester is not supposed to resale but help the debugging.
>
>grrrr
>
>Denis U]
>  
>
Might I suggest, to the folks who's demos he's ripped off, to email his 
ISP, ebay, fnord, and inform them of this.  Try to get his account deleted.

Obviously, he, or an associate of his is on the list:
You are acting in poor form, stealing not only copyrighted works that 
legitimate beta testers have put together, but also beta Monos that 
could've gone to people interested in actually using them.  For what?  
$400 profit?  That's pennies for a good salesman. 
I suggest you become one.

James

le 28/09/2003 23:28, Gert van Santen à g.vansanten@... a écrit :

> I was wondering: did Electron ever officially tell the 100 buyers that they
> were, in fact, beta-testers?

From the shop page of the MnM:

"Elektron Friend 100 Beta Order
Welcome to the Elektron Monomachine beta order page for Elektron friends.
Use the links below to place your order at the special price. Right now
there are 0 units left for ordering. All prices include UPS shipping, and
the prices inside the European union also include sales tax. All units are
sold with 1 year full warranty and 10 days money back guarantee. The
Monomachine OS is currently in beta version 0.90, so you should be prepared
for some unfinished features and possible irregular behaviour. OS upgrades
will be posted to the support page of the Monomachine support web page. The
units do not come with any presets, so you should enjoy exploring the unit
and create your own sounds. The units come with a brief quick start guide;
the full users manual will be shipped to you as OS1.0 is released. OS1.0 is
scheduled to be released in December this year. The units will be shipped
starting on the 18:th of September. "

It is a sale for beta test, not resale.

Denis U]

================================================
lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org

le 28/09/2003 23:56, desdinova à tink_ktir@... a écrit :

> Might I suggest, to the folks who's demos he's ripped off, to email his
> ISP, ebay, fnord, and inform them of this.  Try to get his account deleted.

And the ripped off should do it fast, it's something ISP don't like at all
little fraud who use their bandwith with uncleared material.

There's also material from Elektron both demos and graphics.

Denis U]

================================================
lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org

I've got a LASER, Earthman! wrote:
> le 28/09/2003 23:28, Gert van Santen \ufffd g.vansanten@... a \ufffdcrit :
>
>> I was wondering: did Electron ever officially tell the 100 buyers
>> that they were, in fact, beta-testers?
>
> From the shop page of the MnM:
>
> "Elektron Friend 100 Beta Order
> Welcome to the Elektron Monomachine beta order page for Elektron
> friends. Use the links below to place your order at the special
> price. Right now there are 0 units left for ordering. All prices
> include UPS shipping, and the prices inside the European union also
> include sales tax. All units are sold with 1 year full warranty and
> 10 days money back guarantee. The Monomachine OS is currently in beta
> version 0.90, so you should be prepared for some unfinished features
> and possible irregular behaviour. OS upgrades will be posted to the
> support page of the Monomachine support web page. The units do not
> come with any presets, so you should enjoy exploring the unit and
> create your own sounds. The units come with a brief quick start
> guide; the full users manual will be shipped to you as OS1.0 is
> released. OS1.0 is scheduled to be released in December this year.
> The units will be shipped starting on the 18:th of September. "
>
> It is a sale for beta test, not resale.

OK, thanks. That makes things clearer.

Nevertheless; I only read here that people get the opportunity to buy a beta
machine. (which, by the way, I think is a great idea! For Electron, but also
for their customers. It's a terrific way to get a truely developed product,
and if I had had the money, I would have bought one).
But: the "Happy 100" are, as far as I know - and correct me if I'm wrong -
not officially called betatesters. They also didn't sign any NDA. They are
just people who buy a beta machine for less money than the finished product
will cost later.
What I mean is: I think this guy can legally sell the MM for as much money
as he likes. The fact that he seems to have stolen those demo's is of course
very low, and the whole thing definitely smells very funny...

Cheers,

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

le 29/09/2003 00:14, Gert van Santen à g.vansanten@... a écrit :

> But: the "Happy 100" are, as far as I know - and correct me if I'm wrong -
> not officially called betatesters. They also didn't sign any NDA. They are
> just people who buy a beta machine for less money than the finished product
> will cost later.

A sale is a contract, if Elektron sale discounted for beta, it is for beta,
nothing else till the beta is closed.

> What I mean is: I think this guy can legally sell the MM for as much money
> as he likes. The fact that he seems to have stolen those demo's is of course
> very low, and the whole thing definitely smells very funny...

A thief, point. =:F

now I shut up on this, I made my point. :D

Denis U]

================================================
lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org

On Sun Sep 28 2003, damon <damon@...> wrote:

> http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4pgq6/mm/mm.htm

Exactly. That fucker is on this mailing list. And linking to my demo
mp3:s. Without asking or whatever. 

/Janne

On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 05:56:13PM -0400, desdinova wrote:
>    Might  I  suggest,  to the folks who's demos he's ripped off, to email
>    his
>    ISP,  ebay,  fnord,  and  inform them of this.  Try to get his account
>    deleted.

Well, I would LOVE to tell you what action I've taken regarding this.
But since this person obviously reads this list, I don't want to ruin
the surprise for them.

Joe

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 05:56:13PM -0400, desdinova wrote:
> 
> Well, I would LOVE to tell you what action I've taken regarding 
this.

Joe,

Can you send me an Email?
I really want something done since he has copied demo files without 
permission wich are marked as original recordings.

Ronald.

On Mon Sep 29 2003, Roonan <info@...> wrote:
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 05:56:13PM -0400, desdinova wrote:
> > 
> > Well, I would LOVE to tell you what action I've taken regarding 
> this.
> 
> Joe,
> 
> Can you send me an Email?
> I really want something done since he has copied demo files without 
> permission wich are marked as original recordings.

Joe, an email for me too? I am in the same situation.

/Janne

me = mad curious

lol.... if you don't want to email everybody in private to let us know what 
you have planned for El Stealo Bastardo Grande then post to the group about 
it later..... pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

hee.

what a maroOOoOOoOon.

-0behn desu0-
djbokuno.com


----Original Message Follows----

From: "Roonan" <info@...>
Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [elektron] That **** is using our demos to sell his mono!
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 08:36:08 -0000

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Joe <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
 > On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 05:56:13PM -0400, desdinova wrote:
 >
 > Well, I would LOVE to tell you what action I've taken regarding
this.

Joe,

Can you send me an Email?
I really want something done since he has copied demo files without
permission wich are marked as original recordings.

Ronald.

_________________________________________________________________
High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local 
service providers in your area). Click here.   https://broadband.msn.com

le 29/09/2003 10:51, Behn Humphrey à be4n_anikean@... a écrit :

> what a maroOOoOOoOon.

And report him to Ebay and to his ISP.

Il va pleurer sa mère !

Denis >:F

================================================
lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "I've got a LASER, Earthman!" 
<lepetitmartien@m...> wrote:
> le 29/09/2003 10:51, Behn Humphrey à be4n_anikean@h... a écrit :
> 
> > what a maroOOoOOoOon.
> 
> And report him to Ebay and to his ISP.
> 
> Il va pleurer sa mère !
> 
> Denis >:F

I guess his ISP stopped him.
I can't reach the site anymore, I get:

"Locked
The requested resource is currently locked. The lock must be released 
or proper identification given before the method can be applied."

:-)

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 06:45:08AM -0000, Roonan wrote:
>    I guess his ISP stopped him.
>    I can't reach the site anymore, I get:
>    "Locked
>    The requested resource is currently locked. The lock must be released
>    or proper identification given before the method can be applied."
>    :-)

yes! also note that he no longer has links to our files in his eBay
auction. there are, however, still copywritten images and sound files
from Elektron (though the Monomachine logo has been removed).

Joe

Good work, super friends!

On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 12:04 am, Joe wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 06:45:08AM -0000, Roonan wrote:
> >    I guess his ISP stopped him.
> >    I can't reach the site anymore, I get:
> >    "Locked
> >    The requested resource is currently locked. The lock must be 
> released
> >    or proper identification given before the method can be applied."
> >    :-)
>
> yes! also note that he no longer has links to our files in his eBay
> auction. there are, however, still copywritten images and sound files
> from Elektron (though the Monomachine logo has been removed).
>
> Joe
>
>
<image.tiff>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

His site is back online.
The links are gone and now it say's:
"If you'd like to hear additional sound demos, please e-mail me at 
MimizanMusic@...."

Hmm, I wonder......

On Tue Sep 30 2003, Roonan <info@...> wrote:
> His site is back online.
> The links are gone and now it say's:
> "If you'd like to hear additional sound demos, please e-mail me at 
> MimizanMusic@...."
> 
> Hmm, I wonder......

How many mails that are needed to fill up his hotmail-account?
Registering him on some spamming web sites? No. I bet. You never
wondered that. Not at all. Never ever. Honest! ;)

/Janne

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 03:57:53PM +0200, Janne G:son Berg wrote:
>    How many mails that are needed to fill up his hotmail-account?
>    Registering him on some spamming web sites? No. I bet. You never
>    wondered that. Not at all. Never ever. Honest! ;)
>    /Janne

well, one *good* mail will fill up a hotmail account. say, for example,
a .wav file. maybe you should forward him your latest recording ;-)

Joe

le 30/09/2003 15:53, Roonan à info@... a écrit :

> His site is back online.
> The links are gone and now it say's:
> "If you'd like to hear additional sound demos, please e-mail me at
> MimizanMusic@...."
> 
> Hmm, I wonder......

Call the RIAA! ;))))

You should ask info to him innocently and if the sounds he sends are still
the ones from betatestersŠ ISP again ANDŠ

If some of the betatesters are RIAA/SACEM/whatever affiliates they should
report the guy. Be aware that the original availability of the sounds to the
list people was unlawfull already if you are under protection of the SACEM
(french author's right protection) and you are subjected to some acrymonia
thereŠ The other copyright systems I don't know.

And Mimizan is a cool french village in the south :-/
Sigh!

Denis U]

================================================
lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2561546457&category=38071

It's soldŠ

Denis U]

================================================
lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I actually wrote him a very nasty email and he actually responded - apologizing most profusely for "stealing" my demo.  Said he really wanted the MnM but then needed the money so that was why he was trying to sell it.

Stacey

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: I've got a LASER, Earthman! 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] That **** is using our demos to sell his mono!



  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2561546457&category=38071

  It's soldS

  Denis U]

  ================================================
  lepetitmartien           M.I.C.                http://www.macmusic.org


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 06:22:29PM -0700, Stacey Dodds wrote:
>    Well,  I don't know about anyone else, but I actually wrote him a very
>    nasty email and he actually responded - apologizing most profusely for
>    "stealing" my demo.  Said he really wanted the MnM but then needed the
>    money so that was why he was trying to sell it.
>    Stacey

that's BS. he created that website within a day of Elektron releasing the
MM's to their friends.

Joe

Maybe you guys should play more with your MnM and drop the topic:::
seriously, that is not sooo much of a big deal.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Ravi Ivan Sharma" <noision1@...>
To: <elektron-users@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [elektron] That **** is using our demos to sell his mono!


> Based on his past emails on this and other forums, my guess is that
> he bought 2 monomachines. The dude is a straight out hide in the
> shadows liar. Who else hides as much as such a liar. And look at the
> crap he peddles. Basically a tin man, low level, penny-merchant.
> Ratso.
>
>
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Stacey Dodds"
> <staceydodds@s...> wrote:
> > Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I actually wrote him a
> very nasty email and he actually responded - apologizing most
> profusely for "stealing" my demo.  Said he really wanted the MnM but
> then needed the money so that was why he was trying to sell it.
> >
> > Stacey
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: I've got a LASER, Earthman!
> >   To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:26 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [elektron] That **** is using our demos to sell his
> mono!
> >
> >
> >
> >   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
> ViewItem&item=2561546457&category=38071
> >
> >   It's soldS
> >
> >   Denis U]
> >
> >   ================================================
> >   lepetitmartien           M.I.C.
> http://www.macmusic.org
> >
> >
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >               ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

I hope the rest of this group doesn't get too pissed off if I sell
mine, which I think is imminent. I'm trying to decide whether I should
wait until I get an outboard filter (either the Mutator or the MacBeth
Moroco) or maybe some other outboard effects first. Sound wise, it's
just not doing it for me either in what I come up with or the demos
I've heard. I'd wait to see what kind of revisions Elektron makes to
it but I've recently decided to go into "full on, ASAP" music making
mode and there's just too much to buy, so I can't really hold on to
fairly expensive equipment hoping I'll find a use for it later. Worst
case: I sell it and later I hear stuff I really like and I buy another
one. Not a big deal for me. More instructions would probably help
quite a bit and I missed some posts since last Thursday, so maybe
there's something there to help. Right now I find even simple stuff -
like how to effectively bypass the filters - perplexing on the MnM. I
might try to write some concise, hopefully constructive, criticism of
the MnM later and perhaps for some items people can point out what I'm
doing wrong. I haven't even touched the sequencer because it seems
pointless until I have a sound I want to sequence.
 
   If I do sell it I'll be selling through eBay because that's how I
sell any of my gear - $1 and no reserve; let it ride. If I come to
that decision and the response to this isn't all bile, I'll post a
link. I will openly admit I never would have bought the MnM if I
didn't know Elektron gear maintains its resale value. I buy gear with
resale value in mind, hence why I usually buy either boutique or
limited edition - e.g., Elektron, EMS, MacBeth - or older used
equipment - e.g., Roland, Korg, Akai, SCI, etcetera. It helps that
those two fields are also generally the more interesting items and
much better values (IMO), even if resale weren't an issue.
   Later,

   Ben



--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "M-.-n" <nostromo@a...> wrote:

> 
> Maybe you guys should play more with your MnM and drop the topic:::
> seriously, that is not sooo much of a big deal.
>

"I buy gear with resale value in mind " - you said it .

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/2003

On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 10:54:36PM -0000, Ben wrote:
>       I hope the rest of this group doesn't get too pissed off if I sell
>    mine, which I think is imminent.

well, just to clarify.... (we discussed this when people first started
noticing this guy selling his MM.)  this issue isn't that he's selling
his MM; it's that within a day of it going on sale to the Elektron
friends, he was advertising to sell it for $400 more than the friend
sale price. it's obvious he hadn't heard it (they hadn't shipped it yet)
and that he just wanted to make some money off of the sale.

to me, this is wrong because Elektron is doing a great thing by offering
the MM to their friends presale and at a discounted price. they're a
very unique company that is very close to their customer-base; and it
sucks to see their kindness abused.

you on the other hand, didn't buy the MM with the intention of selling
it for profit. you bought it because you wanted to hear and play it. and
you're selling it not to make money but because it just isn't what you
wanted.

so I hope you see the difference here; as well as why it's ludicrous
to think that anyone would be pissed off at you solely for selling your
gear.

Joe

Hi guys,

This is not aimed at anyone personally, and I don't want to start a war, 
but.... isn't everyone taking this issue too seriously?? Surely this mans 
business (ie selling a synth for profit - even if it is against the 'rules') 
is no more morally dubious than thousands of other occupations?

Personally I worked for the insurance business for a couple of years, and 
almost worked in the City of London for a bank ;0)

What I'm saying here is that there has been alot of traffic about what is 
essentially a quite expected and normal occurrence, quite in keeping with 
the (morally vacant) American style free market economy that most (all?) of 
us live in. To make such an issue of this seems silly. No one has died, been 
denied their civil rights, been robbed (OK he used some samples, but what do 
you expect if you put stuff on the net?), or anything else that could be 
described as serious. I am quite surpised there havn't been more put up for 
sale... that's just the kind of world we live in =0(

So please folks, lets just talk about the moral high ground that is music 
and the lovely scandinavian technology that helps us make it, and forget the 
silly stuff like who is selling something they have bought.

Peace to all

Thinking Happy Thoughts
Amos


>From: "Ravi Ivan Sharma" <noision1@...>
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [elektron] That **** is using our demos to sell his mono!
>Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:07:51 -0000
>
>Based on his past emails on this and other forums, my guess is that
>he bought 2 monomachines. The dude is a straight out hide in the
>shadows liar. Who else hides as much as such a liar. And look at the
>crap he peddles. Basically a tin man, low level, penny-merchant.
>Ratso.
>
>
>--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Stacey Dodds"
><staceydodds@s...> wrote:
> > Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I actually wrote him a
>very nasty email and he actually responded - apologizing most
>profusely for "stealing" my demo.  Said he really wanted the MnM but
>then needed the money so that was why he was trying to sell it.
> >
> > Stacey
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: I've got a LASER, Earthman!
> >   To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:26 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [elektron] That **** is using our demos to sell his
>mono!
> >
> >
> >
> >   http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
>ViewItem&item=2561546457&category=38071
> >
> >   It's soldS
> >
> >   Denis U]
> >
> >   ================================================
> >   lepetitmartien           M.I.C.
>http://www.macmusic.org
> >
> >
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >               ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>Service.
> >
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> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

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--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" <bdagnon@h...> wrote:
> 
>    I hope the rest of this group doesn't get too pissed off if I 
sell
> mine, which I think is imminent. 

I guess you're just another G.A.S. victim.
I don't blame you, there are so many new wannahave things coming out 
these days.

But maybe just one warning:
Sometimes it takes some time to discover the true value of it.
I bought the MD without knowing it's true potential and had a hard 
time fitting it into my live set trying it to do things my way.
Then i discovered to work it the MD's way (internal sequencer) and 
it became clear how much fun and powerfull it was to use.
I guess you don't own a MD?

Just a little example: (MD tip no.1 , works also for MM)
Let's say you want a pumping  closed hihat.
Select the hihat, press rec. and rush over all the step buttons to 
lit them.
Then you press and hold the first step and press the volume knob 
once, this parameter gets locked now as you can see in the display.
Do this for step 1,5,9,13.
No press play and turn the volume down, voila!
The accents become appearant and you can regulate how much, this 
works much better than trying to accent them afterwards.
This is very handy to make accents but of course you can do it with 
every parameter.

And i guess when realtime parameter locks are working in a new 
revision of the MM it will be great fun playing with it.

Ronald.

Now, I know you only have positive intentions in this email, but I am a little offended 
that you associate Americans with being morally vacant, while Scandanavian 
technology is the path to "moral high ground". I don't want to create a political tangent 
on this whole thread, but I'd rather not see these kinds of generalizations on a music 
oriented list. But I'm with you on the whole peace thing :)

-Tonsil

On 2 Oct 2003 at 8:56, amos luyk wrote:

> Hi guys,
> 
> This is not aimed at anyone personally, and I don't want to start a war, 
> but.... isn't everyone taking this issue too seriously?? Surely this mans 
> business (ie selling a synth for profit - even if it is against the 'rules') 
> is no more morally dubious than thousands of other occupations?
> 
> Personally I worked for the insurance business for a couple of years, and 
> almost worked in the City of London for a bank ;0)
> 
> What I'm saying here is that there has been alot of traffic about what is 
> essentially a quite expected and normal occurrence, quite in keeping with 
> the (morally vacant) American style free market economy that most (all?) of 
> us live in. To make such an issue of this seems silly. No one has died, been 
> denied their civil rights, been robbed (OK he used some samples, but what do 
> you expect if you put stuff on the net?), or anything else that could be 
> described as serious. I am quite surpised there havn't been more put up for 
> sale... that's just the kind of world we live in =0(
> 
> So please folks, lets just talk about the moral high ground that is music 
> and the lovely scandinavian technology that helps us make it, and forget the 
> silly stuff like who is selling something they have bought.
> 
> Peace to all
> 
> Thinking Happy Thoughts
> Amos
>

Let's drop this thread o.k.
Enough said.

Ronald.

>Elektron is doing a great thing by offering
>the MM to their friends presale and at a discounted price.

Hi guys,

Is this not a little naiive? Elektron have sold a synth at a discount 
because it is not a finished product, and they need some heavy duty beta 
testing which would be very exspensive and time consuming to do themselves. 
They have sold the first models (perhaps not making any profit.. but 
certainly not making a loss), and now they can get the synth ready for sale 
to the public with a large number of beta testers spending thousands of 
hours finding any faults.

Elektron is not a charity, and they are not doing anything for nothing. At 
the end of the day, its all just business - with a lot of love and 
enthusiasm perhaps, but business none the less.

The day that companies start producing their products without the intention 
of making profits is the day that we will all have the moral right to 
'lynch' people who try to make a profit from their products.

Just my 2c =0)

thinking happy thoughts
amos

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "amos luyk" <amosluyk@h...> 
>  At 
> the end of the day, its all just business - with a lot of love and 
> enthusiasm perhaps, but business none the less.

Welcome to the real world.  

> The day that companies start producing their products without the 
intention 
> of making profits is the day that we will all have the moral right 
to 
> 'lynch' people who try to make a profit from their products.

That day, lynching will be also morally not acceptable anymore.

But before that happens, hell needs to freeze.

Many apologys if I have offended =0(

tht
a


>From: tonsil@...
>Reply-To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [elektron] That **** is using our demos to sell his mono!
>Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:11:15 -0400
>
>Now, I know you only have positive intentions in this email, but I am a 
>little offended
>that you associate Americans with being morally vacant, while Scandanavian
>technology is the path to "moral high ground". I don't want to create a 
>political tangent
>on this whole thread, but I'd rather not see these kinds of generalizations 
>on a music
>oriented list. But I'm with you on the whole peace thing :)
>
>-Tonsil
>
>
>On 2 Oct 2003 at 8:56, amos luyk wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > This is not aimed at anyone personally, and I don't want to start a war,
> > but.... isn't everyone taking this issue too seriously?? Surely this 
>mans
> > business (ie selling a synth for profit - even if it is against the 
>'rules')
> > is no more morally dubious than thousands of other occupations?
> >
> > Personally I worked for the insurance business for a couple of years, 
>and
> > almost worked in the City of London for a bank ;0)
> >
> > What I'm saying here is that there has been alot of traffic about what 
>is
> > essentially a quite expected and normal occurrence, quite in keeping 
>with
> > the (morally vacant) American style free market economy that most (all?) 
>of
> > us live in. To make such an issue of this seems silly. No one has died, 
>been
> > denied their civil rights, been robbed (OK he used some samples, but 
>what do
> > you expect if you put stuff on the net?), or anything else that could be
> > described as serious. I am quite surpised there havn't been more put up 
>for
> > sale... that's just the kind of world we live in =0(
> >
> > So please folks, lets just talk about the moral high ground that is 
>music
> > and the lovely scandinavian technology that helps us make it, and forget 
>the
> > silly stuff like who is selling something they have bought.
> >
> > Peace to all
> >
> > Thinking Happy Thoughts
> > Amos
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger 
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

Thanks, it's okay - I completely understand the sentiment. I was more 
interested in disspelling a generalization than I was actually offended. I like to 
think that music in particular can transcend political boundaries. Believe me, 
I'm as critical of American politics as ayone, but I'm on this list to glean SID 
programming tips and talk shop. 

On 5 Oct 2003 at 1:04, amos luyk wrote:

> Many apologys if I have offended =0(
> 
> tht
> a
>