Elektron Musical Instruments

Forgive me if I've overlooked something, but is there a local off switch on the MnM? I 
can't find one and it's a nightmare trying to sequence in DP4!

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "puretokyo2002" 
<puretokyo@h...> wrote:
> Forgive me if I've overlooked something, but is there a local off 
switch on the MnM? I 
> can't find one and it's a nightmare trying to sequence in DP4!

Huh?
Why use an external sequencer with the MM?
I hope you know the real power is the internal sequencer of the MM 
(and the MD) Not using it is a terrible waste!
But if you want to use it like this I guess you can set the main 
keyboard for external use only in the global settings.
(control/control out 1) Gives you the same as local off.

What you also can do is pattern mapping, so triggering patterns from 
an exernal sequencer while using the internal of the MM.

Ronald.

Thanks, just what I needed to know.

Loving the MnM sequencer. The reason I wanted local-off was because at the moment I 
am using its keyboard as my master because the keys are sooo perfectly weighted. I 
mean, they could always be heavier, but they're as good as synth-action gets. 

So how do I start pattern-mapping to trigger patterns from DP?

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "puretokyo2002" 
<puretokyo@h...> wrote:
> Thanks, just what I needed to know.
> 
> So how do I start pattern-mapping to trigger patterns from DP?

Multi map channel = midi channel 8
Settings in global menu Control/Midichannls/Multi map chan.
and Control/Multimap edit to set the patterns to the zones.
How it exactly works I do not know, just experiment with it.

Ronald.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote:
> Why use an external sequencer with the MM?
> I hope you know the real power is the internal sequencer of the MM 
> (and the MD) Not using it is a terrible waste!

You know, its strength is also its weakness IMHO.  Sitting down with 
the MD in my lap is far more fun than any other method I have found 
for writing drum patterns.  But... when I bought the MD I figured it 
would integrate nicely into my Cubase-based method of music writing, 
and it didn't.  Now, before you respond with a "you _can_ use it with 
external sequencers", I know this - but you end up sacrificing the 
aspects that make it such a really nice piece of equipment (parameter 
locks).  Why the sacrifice?  Parameter locks (essentially fast CC's) 
exceed the midi standard.  Ok... so I could use CC's in Cubase, but 
then I would have to use an outboard midi-fader, rendering all those 
lovely knobs and graphical user interface on the MD useless.  I would 
_love_ to be able to write drum patterns with the MD, and export my 
songs to Cubase where I can perform final tweaks / copys / edits.  
Currently, I do this (export the midi events minus the locks) just so 
that I can see the drums alongside my synth sequences.  Alternately, 
I would love to be able to write my raw drum patterns in Cubase, and 
record them with the MD, where I could add locks.

So... given that I'm still a little sore about the fact that the MD 
doesn't play nice with an external sequencer... I'm more than a 
little worried about the MnM.  Would buying one force me forever to 
the dark side of "hardware sequencing".  Why, when Cubase is so nice 
for sequencing entire songs, would I stop using it?  How well could I 
sequence my other 1/2 dozen synths with the MnM?  Would I end up 
using up all of its sequencing power to control my other gear?  Would 
the MnM keyboard do well with patches that have velocity sensitivity 
(key up and key down), and aftertouch?  My Oberheim benefits greatly 
from having a capable keyboard controller - is the MnM a good 
keyboard?  From what I've read so far, I'd end up having to do all of 
my keyboard playing on the MnM, since it won't record outboard keys.  
And last - how well does it play with the MD?  Do you end up just 
writing drum and synth patterns independently,  or is there some kind 
of nice way of working on both synth and drums together?

Is Cubase rendered useless by the MnM/MD, or do the MnM/MD become 
useless when used with Cubase?  Do any of you MnM owners feel that 
your other gear will be languishing in the corner now that you've 
bought it?  Is there soon to be an "elektron sound" associated with 
people who write everything with elektron gear?

-gerald

>> Why use an external sequencer with the MM?
>> I hope you know the real power is the internal sequencer of the MM
>> (and the MD) Not using it is a terrible waste!
>
> You know, its strength is also its weakness IMHO.  Sitting down with
> the MD in my lap is far more fun than any other method I have found
> for writing drum patterns.  But... when I bought the MD I figured it
> would integrate nicely into my Cubase-based method of music writing,
> and it didn't.  Now, before you respond with a "you _can_ use it with
> external sequencers", I know this - but you end up sacrificing the
> aspects that make it such a really nice piece of equipment (parameter
> locks).  Why the sacrifice?  Parameter locks (essentially fast CC's)
> exceed the midi standard.  Ok... so I could use CC's in Cubase, but
> then I would have to use an outboard midi-fader, rendering all those
> lovely knobs and graphical user interface on the MD useless.  I would
> _love_ to be able to write drum patterns with the MD, and export my
> songs to Cubase where I can perform final tweaks / copys / edits.
> Currently, I do this (export the midi events minus the locks) just so
> that I can see the drums alongside my synth sequences.  Alternately,
> I would love to be able to write my raw drum patterns in Cubase, and
> record them with the MD, where I could add locks.


You CAN use parameter locks with an external sequencer.
Just trigger patterns from Cubase and you should have it done.

On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 09:14:28PM -0000, oldmanfury wrote:
>    You know, its strength is also its weakness IMHO.  Sitting down with
>    the MD in my lap is far more fun than any other method I have found
>    for writing drum patterns.

Agreed. That's why I want a module MM too :-)

>    So... given that I'm still a little sore about the fact that the MD
>    doesn't play nice with an external sequencer... I'm more than a
>    little worried about the MnM.  Would buying one force me forever to
>    the dark side of "hardware sequencing".

I think a major part of the beauty of the MM and the MD is in the onboard
sequencers.  You can incorporate them into your setup, it's just not in
the typical fashion.  For example, you could program sequences using
parameter locks and pull out the full potential of the machine.  Then
you can take this even further by trigging the sequences via Cubase
AND adding realtime tweaks to their Cubase sequences by playing the MD or
MM while recording in Cubase.  So your MD's (or MM's) onboard pattern is
trigging parameter locks while it's also receiving CC changes from
Cubase.  It's actually quite something when you think about.  No, it's
not like your other synths; but that doesn't make it bad or unusable, in
my opinion.  Especially when you consider the power it offers.

>    How well could I
>    sequence my other 1/2 dozen synths with the MnM?

Not very well right now.  Maybe very well in the future (depending on
how they change the OS and whether or not external MIDI sequencing will
by polyphonic); but it's not going to be like Cubase. The interface and
modus operandi will be much different.  Which works better with your is
what you should use as your master.

>    Would I end up
>    using up all of its sequencing power to control my other gear?

If you add another synth, then yes!  :-)  (It sequences on 6 external
channels.)

>    My Oberheim benefits greatly
>    from having a capable keyboard controller - is the MnM a good
>    keyboard?

Nobody's really mentioned it, but the keyboard is actually quite nice.
It's better quality than the Nord keyboard in terms of feel, action and
response.  The keys are larger than the Nord's, as well.  Its seems
like the best type of keyboard you'll get in a synth, at least from
what I've seen.

>    From what I've read so far, I'd end up having to do all of
>    my keyboard playing on the MnM, since it won't record outboard keys.

Not true. You can play it from an external keyboard as well as record
(in realtime and grid mode) the external notes into a sequence.  Which
makes me really wish they would've released a module version (I'm not
going to let up on that! :-)

>    And last - how well does it play with the MD?  Do you end up just
>    writing drum and synth patterns independently,  or is there some kind
>    of nice way of working on both synth and drums together?

So far, I've been writing a sequence on each of their sequencers and
just running them together.  But you can do more.  For example, the MM
will change parameters without trigging notes.  So you could have it
change parameters on the MD while the MD plays its internal patterns
(like I described above or Cubase).  And since the MM's pattern length
is longer, you can effectively extend the length of a repeating pattern
in the MD, using this method.

>    Is Cubase rendered useless by the MnM/MD, or do the MnM/MD become
>    useless when used with Cubase?

I don't like software sequencers, so I really can't say.  I can sequence
much faster on these machines than in any soft sequencer, though.

>    Do any of you MnM owners feel that
>    your other gear will be languishing in the corner now that you've
>    bought it?

No.  In fact I'm using the two to sequence my other synths pretty often.

>    Is there soon to be an "elektron sound" associated with
>    people who write everything with elektron gear?

Perhaps; but that has more to do with the onboard sounds and their
nature, I think.

You asked way too many questions :-)  I'm sick of typing...

Joe

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "oldmanfury" <erinys@s...> 
wrote:
> Is Cubase rendered useless by the MnM/MD, or do the MnM/MD become 
> useless when used with Cubase? 

I don't use software sequencers anymore but I would say no.
You can always record the patterns you made on elektron gear as 
audio in cubase.
I know what you're thinking right now, "you want totall controll and 
with audio you're stuck with the recording" right?
But why should this be a problem? The first recording is often the 
best and you can remix audio in a very creative way (and use plugins 
etc..), this is how I remix my live sessions.
Think about it and try it, you'll be suprised!
I know tracks made by people on just one monosynth.
The complete song is recorded in layers and even the drums were made 
with this monosynth, amazing!

I used to be a controll freak, trying to record everything as midi 
to recreate and controll the song if needed, it didn't do any good 
to the creative process afterwards.
Now I just play and mix with the hardware sequencers I have and it 
is the most fun and creative way to work for me.

Ronald.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "puretokyo2002" 
<puretokyo@h...> wrote:
> Forgive me if I've overlooked something, but is there a local off 
switch on the MnM? I 
> can't find one and it's a nightmare trying to sequence in DP4!

There is no global local off switch, but there are several that 
combined gives the effect you are used to from "local off". Check 
the global menu, and let me know if you need more help.

Daniel