Elektron Musical Instruments

didn't somebody mention setting up a system for saving and
categorizing all of the Machinedrum suggestions? that would still be a
good idea... (hint, hint :-)

anyway, I was thinking about someone's suggestion from awhile ago -
the idea of song-oriented sequencing.  more specifically, I think it
would be great to allow parameter locks on a song-level rather than
just at a pattern level. to me, this is one of the main things setting
the MD apart from software sequencers. for example, if you want the
hi-hat decay to go up for one beat of the entire song then the only
way to program that is to use song mode and dedicate a track which
will be trigged for the measure the beat lies in (and never used
again).  but that's a waste of a track that could be used for another
sound, to me.

I know that Daniel shot down the song-sequencing idea, citing the very
good point that it would be too difficult to edit the song. but I have
an idea for this (that I hope is worth considering). first off,
though, my idea is just to incorporate song-level parameter locks
overtop of already existing patterns that the song is sequencing (i.e.
no new step trigs). and to edit these locks, the song editing would be
expanded as follows: for a given song step, press "enter" while the
pattern name on that step is highlighted. this would bring up the
pattern edit window (with some notation so that one knows this is
different from the normal pattern edit mode) where one could edit the
parameter locks associated with the pattern on that song step.

the only confusing aspect of this editing would be distinguishing a
normal pattern parameter lock from a song parameter lock. this could
be done as follows: instead of the whole box colors being inverted
with the value displayed (as with normal parameter locks), the box
colors would be as normal with the value displayed and the parameter
label colors inverted.

this implementation might be a bad idea (or impossible), but I think
that song-oriented sequencing is something that should be considered
for a future OS.  that is, if it's within the scope of the machine to
store such information, etc.

so what are the users' opinions?

Joe.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> didn't somebody mention setting up a system for saving and
> categorizing all of the Machinedrum suggestions? that would still 
be a
> good idea... (hint, hint :-)

Yes, we need something like this, anyone?

> this implementation might be a bad idea (or impossible), but I think
> that song-oriented sequencing is something that should be considered
> for a future OS.  that is, if it's within the scope of the machine 
to
> store such information, etc.
> so what are the users' opinions?

I guess it's impossible. (i'm 99% sure)
Song mode now is very, very simple, your suggestion would need a lot 
of programming (and room (=ram) for that) and all current songs would 
not run on it. 

Maybe a solution for what you want is use a sequencer alongside to do 
the tricks you want. (why not the MM with LFO-> CC on ext. midi 
sequencer track?) You can use the internal pattern/song mode and 
still send CC's from external seq. When the ext midi seq is working 
properly I planned to test the usability of this to use in Live 
situations to give extra variation to existing patterns on the MD. 
(note's and CC's)

Ronald.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote:
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:
> > didn't somebody mention setting up a system for saving and
> > categorizing all of the Machinedrum suggestions? that would still 
> be a
> > good idea... (hint, hint :-)
> 
> Yes, we need something like this, anyone?

If everyone from this point on could make suggestions I could make a
list in word as I read them and email elektron after about a month. 
I'm pretty much jobless now anyway.  

***Don't make suggestions anymore until we get this figured out.***

That's info@..., right Daniel?

We could do that or have a doc section in the files to your left to
allow suggestions or bugs.  But this can get messy.  Then I could type
them and email elektron too.  

Remember this is for Machinedrum ONLY.  Give me a shout back so we can
get it rolling.  Who is the admin again?

On Thu, Nov 20, 2003 at 06:46:19AM -0000, Roonan wrote:
>    Song mode now is very, very simple, your suggestion would need a lot
>    of programming (and room (=ram) for that) and all current songs would
>    not run on it.

I don't think you or I can say whether they would run on it or not. that
is, the question depends on whether old data structures (holding the
song data) would need to be changed in a way that would keep old songs
from working. but that would depend on the current data structures used;
and since neither of us has ever seen the source code, we can't really
say. (which is one of the reasons for asking Daniel about this.)
				
>    Maybe a solution for what you want is use a sequencer alongside to do
>    the tricks you want.

yes, of course I can do this. but I prefer having the tightly-integrated
sequencer in one interface. if I'm going to use an external sequencer,
I'll likely just do all my programming there and not use the MD's
sequencer. which is a total waste. if I want to do that, I might as
well just buy the Waldorf Attack and Cubase. and I don't want to do
that, since I prefer the sound/feel/interface/liveness of the MD by far.

>    (why not the MM with LFO-> CC on ext. midi
>    sequencer track?) You can use the internal pattern/song mode and
>    still send CC's from external seq. When the ext midi seq is working
>    properly I planned to test the usability of this to use in Live
>    situations to give extra variation to existing patterns on the MD.
>    (note's and CC's)

that's still a major pain, though. because then I would have to make
the MM's tracks line up correctly in its song sequencer. and that will
affect the synth parts I have playing on the MM.

but here's my other MD idea (which I've wanted for awhile but never
mentioned): *forced* parameter jumps.  that is, one could hold down
function while turning a knob and have the changes not take affect until
function is released. this would be nice for transposing the
psuedo-melodic percussion parts and would be nice on the MM as well.

Joe

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jmelnyk@c...> wrote:

> anyway, I was thinking about someone's suggestion from awhile ago -
> the idea of song-oriented sequencing.  more specifically, I think 
it
> would be great to allow parameter locks on a song-level rather than
> just at a pattern level.

[...]

It sure would be useful, but my guess is that it would be too 
complex to work out in a good way and displaying on the screen of 
the size of Machinedrum. However, we do not need to think so hard 
about it since there is no memory left (battery backed that is) that 
it could be stored in. And before you say it's not enough in it 
there is far more (1mb) than in most other synths, and its the locks 
(or rather the ability to store lots of them, and reach them 
immediately when needed so we can do all things instantly) that 
takes up the main part of the space.

Daniel