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[Daniel] Something about MD-bugs and MM and MIDI

[Daniel] Something about MD-bugs and MM and MIDI

2003-11-26 by tahvenaine2002

Hi,

I'll just type here couple of things, which I think only you are able 
to answer.

1. MONOMACHINE AND MACHINEDRUM MIDI LATENCY
I've been building my homestudio and been trying to setup everything 
to answer my musicmaking techniques. Ive setup the elektron gear this 
way:
Cubase SX sends midiclock to both units via RME hammerfall midiport. 
With the midiclock it also sends transport commands (Start, stop, 
continue). 
Then I I've setup Monomachine and Machinedrum so that they receive 
transport commands, but do not use midiclock. This way because I want 
solid bpm timing and I'm using songmode (chopping patterns) a lot.
So now I have dreamsetup where I can for example put cubase to loop 8 
measures and when I hit play from cubase, all machines start ticking 
in sync and I can start sequnecing both MM and MD. Well I almost have 
it and here comes the problem:

I've noticed and measured that Monomachine reacts to miditransport-
command (play) in about few ms (4.5 exatcly on my rme midiport). But 
in the Machinedrum it takes about 25 ms!! So you can see it's 
reacting to play command pretty slowly, which makes hard to do groovy 
hihats (exepts if you want a really groovyones :)

Is this something that have been overlooked possibly or somekind of 
bug or just the way it is and which can't be changed?? This is not a 
audiocard latency since I've tried it with 1.5 ms latency from rme 
card and I can get tight timing with Monomachine. One solution to 
this problem would be that I could use the midiclock from cubase in 
both machines, but I don't like it, because the tempo drifts. I like 
the tight MD timing. And without using midiclock I can also do 150 
bpm beat on a 100 bpm song, because the bpm isn't taken from cubase.
If there is possible to do something about this in MD it should be 
pretty high on to-do-list, because like the way it's now, it's hard 
to sync it with any gear if you can't use the midiclock.
(If somebody else knows a work around for this or knows anything 
about this I would like to hear)

2. LINKABLE MACHINES IN MONOMACHINE
You once mentioned that elektron could do a machines link-able like 
in MD, if people would like to have it. I stating here that it would 
be VERY NICE to be able to layer them like this. Of course you can 
always copy track notes from track to another, but it's really more 
userfriendly to have it a linkable way. Another point on tihs that 
someone made, that there isn't a machine in MM that has a normal 
saw+pulse+noise synth tonegenerator. With linkable machines this 
would be pretty easy to complish.
If there would be linkable machines it would be very nice if the 
volumes (not levels) would also be linked in a relative way. So that 
I make a parameter lock with volume -15 (80->65) points so a linked 
machine would also go down 15 points (55 - 35). This would be a very 
essential in machinedrum where you can make a new snare sound by 
combining two machines and then trying to sequence them with varied 
volumes for liveliness effect. If anyone else is interested in 
linkable machines this could be a good moment to speak out. (as 
elektron is doing the final candidate OS)

3. MD-BUG
This happens a lot of times but I haven't found way to reproduce it. 
In songmode the mute column does not work. It appears but nothing 
happens with the squares when you try to change them. This happens 
almost every time I'm doing something with song mode. I usually do a 
lot of chopping of pattern with offset and go back and forth from 
pattern and song mode. Once this happens there is no way this is 
going to fix by itself, it needs to be power-reseted.

4. ANOTHER MD-BUG
This one happensin 1.11 and I haven't tested it on 1.12, but I'll 
write it here anyway, because I'll forget this if I don't and you can 
see if it's allready fixed. (or somebody can test it (I'm not with 
machinedrum right now)). Take one machine and link it to e12-machine 
(this is easiest to hear). Now sequence the machine and e12 triggers 
nicely. Fine. Now go to track with e-12 machine and put one 
parameterlock there with long retrigs. Now play the original pattern 
and you should notice that the e-12 machine stays on parameterlock 
after the seq has run over parameterlock and it won't change to 
normal. This makes it impossible to do velocity sensitive snareing 
with linkable snares, because when you do parameter lock on original 
machine the second machine has too much volume, ok you go to second 
machine track and fix it with parameter lock and then the volumes 
stays there and the next snare sounds wrong. I hope I'm explaining 
this clear enough.

Huh, what a post...
Toni.

Re: [Daniel] Something about MD-bugs and MM and MIDI

2003-11-26 by Roonan

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "tahvenaine2002" 
<tahvenaine@c...> wrote:

> in the Machinedrum it takes about 25 ms!! So you can see it's 
> reacting to play command pretty slowly, which makes hard to do 

I slave the MD to the MM and it sync's perfect. Since the MM is 
syncing fine to SX in your setup I suggest that you sync the MD to 
the MM and the MM to SX. Should work fine that way. 

> Another point on this that 
> someone made, that there isn't a machine in MM that has a normal 
> saw+pulse+noise synth tonegenerator. With linkable machines this 
> would be pretty easy to complish.

That would be me!!!!!
I would really like that. Daniel suggested to re-route the outputs of 
the machines to a new empty machine to mix them. This is not a nice 
and workable way to my opinion.
So YES! I would like the option you mentioned too.
To my opinion the machines are pretty straight forward and somewhat 
limited, linking them could make this a more powerfull synth and to 
my guess more interesting for some people.

Ronald.

Re: [Daniel] Something about MD-bugs and MM and MIDI

2003-11-26 by tahvenaine2002

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Roonan" <info@r...> wrote:
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "tahvenaine2002" 
> <tahvenaine@c...> wrote:
> 
> > in the Machinedrum it takes about 25 ms!! So you can see it's 
> > reacting to play command pretty slowly, which makes hard to do 
> 
> I slave the MD to the MM and it sync's perfect. Since the MM is 
> syncing fine to SX in your setup I suggest that you sync the MD to 
> the MM and the MM to SX. Should work fine that way. 

Ok, this is good suggestion. So I'll be syncing MM to Cubase via 
transport control and MD to MM via midiclock (to get tight clock). 
Then I guess I can get MM midi seq notes from MD's MIDI thru to put 
into cubase (for kontakt-softsampler). Can I still use MIDI OUT on MD 
to sequence my circuit bended 707 or Battery in cubase? For the tight 
grooves, I'll test this tonight!

t.

Re: [Daniel] Something about MD-bugs and MM and MIDI

2003-11-26 by tahvenaine2002

> > 
> > > in the Machinedrum it takes about 25 ms!! So you can see it's 
> > > reacting to play command pretty slowly, which makes hard to do 
> > 
> > I slave the MD to the MM and it sync's perfect. Since the MM is 
> > syncing fine to SX in your setup I suggest that you sync the MD 
to 
> > the MM and the MM to SX. Should work fine that way. 
> 
> Ok, this is good suggestion. So I'll be syncing MM to Cubase via 
> transport control and MD to MM via midiclock (to get tight clock). 
> Then I guess I can get MM midi seq notes from MD's MIDI thru to put 
> into cubase (for kontakt-softsampler). Can I still use MIDI OUT on 
MD 
> to sequence my circuit bended 707 or Battery in cubase? For the 
tight 
> grooves, I'll test this tonight!
> 
> t.

ps. by the way, I really love the 8 global setteing slots. I can 
build couple of scenarios, how I would like to use these machines and 
what runs on sync with another and then change everything instantly 
by switching the global slot. Really great!!!

Toni.

Re: [Daniel] Something about MD-bugs and MM and MIDI

2003-11-29 by daniel_elektron

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "tahvenaine2002" 
<tahvenaine@c...> wrote:

> I've noticed and measured that Monomachine reacts to miditransport-
> command (play) in about few ms (4.5 exatcly on my rme midiport).
> But in the Machinedrum it takes about 25 ms!!

We found some ways of making the MIDI sync better in the Monomachine. 
We will try to implement it also in the Machinedrum in next update. I 
haven't verified that the timing you have measured is correct, but 
it's possible it is so. We'll look into it more in the next MD update.

> 2. LINKABLE MACHINES IN MONOMACHINE
> You once mentioned that elektron could do a machines link-able like 
> in MD, if people would like to have it. I stating here that it 
would 
> be VERY NICE to be able to layer them like this.

...then check out the new 0.93 OS. It was implemented on popular 
demand. It works just like on the MD.

Daniel

Re: [elektron] Re: [Daniel] Something about MD-bugs and MM and MIDI

2003-11-29 by Joe

On Sat, Nov 29, 2003 at 06:53:37PM -0000, daniel_elektron wrote:
>    We found some ways of making the MIDI sync better in the Monomachine.
>    We will try to implement it also in the Machinedrum in next update. I
>    haven't verified that the timing you have measured is correct, but
>    it's possible it is so. We'll look into it more in the next MD update.

that's good. there's quite a bit of drift between the two. if I allow
the MD to be the master and MM the slave, the MM will vary up to 4 or 5
tenths of a BPM. it will also make notes detune and trill; pretty weird
sounding :-) so that makes sense when you say that the MM is the more
stable of the two.

Joe

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