Elektron Musical Instruments

Just 1 pattern on both machines with SID only machines on MnM.
I could go on for hours and hours with themes like this....
http://roonan.fiberworld.nl/Demo/Roonan-Demo-2003-002.mp3 (+/-13mb)

Ronald.

Sorry for the OT, but I respect you guy's opinions.  I
want to give myself a nice xmas present (3rd one :-)
and am looking for some advice to get it right...

I want a good (easy to use, program, flexible, effects
section nice but optional, etc.) midi sequencer.  Easy
and creative like what's in the MD only more general
for integrating both hardware & software generated
sound.  I just can't hang with doing this on the
computer anymore.  Maybe I'm just too *#(%ing old to
adapt (doubt it), but sequencing & editing on the
screen drives me batty (no issue with using software
instruments, just don't want to create the whole
there).  I like to touch.  Could get a DAW, but it's
overkill.  Tried control surfaces, but they really
target downstream mix down & I got that covered.  I
work more with midi at the song construction level
because for me I find it easier to tune & strech note,
duration, velocity & sound mapping to pattern / song
sequences.  Want something to support this phase of
the workflow.  Once it's right I can record audio to
the computer (if necessary) and drive the final mix
from there or pass it along into the external effects
& mixer sections of my studio.

Any recommendations?

Thanks, Eric



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--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, Eric Jacobsen 
<eajacobsen@y...> wrote:
> Sorry for the OT, but I respect you guy's opinions.  I
> want to give myself a nice xmas present (3rd one :-)
> and am looking for some advice to get it right...

I really like the Yamaha sequencers on the RM1x and RS7000.
They are a little hard in the beginning but once mastered unbeatable.
The sequencer of the MnM is really good too but may be limited to do 
every job.

Ronald.

> I want a good (easy to use, program, flexible, effects
> section nice but optional, etc.) midi sequencer.

The ultimate midi hardware sequencer does not exist. In fact, I don't
even belive that there is a REALLY GOOD choice in the market today.
Google Lennart Regebro's hardware sequencer comparison chart and either
make the best choice you can based on the features you want, or join the
mass of us who lament the absence of a really good midi sequencer in
hardware. The topic is perennial at www.ampfea.org 's music bar.

-m@

Matt Picone wrote:
>> I want a good (easy to use, program, flexible, effects
>> section nice but optional, etc.) midi sequencer.
>
> The ultimate midi hardware sequencer does not exist. In fact, I don't
> even belive that there is a REALLY GOOD choice in the market today.
> Google Lennart Regebro's hardware sequencer comparison chart and
> either make the best choice you can based on the features you want,
> or join the mass of us who lament the absence of a really good midi
> sequencer in hardware. The topic is perennial at www.ampfea.org 's
> music bar.

Excellent Chart!!

But I do miss Yamaha's QY series, in particular the QY-70 (nice and small)
and the QY-700 (Big Machine). Coincidentally I played with the QY700 this
weekend, and I was possitively impressed.

:-)

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

YES! 
That's it!
Latest for me.
Funny, there such a lots of SequencerPrograms on the market, but i
never get it to come really close to them. To make an recommindation
to hardware you have to sit in front of all this gear at last. There
are many nice tools put there.
I prever hardware sequencer. I own a Qy700 (never with XG) and
sychronize with some analog stepsequencers (maq16/3, schaltwerk).
Together with the internal sequencers from electron ( if they stay in
sync ) there is nothing more i need.
Take a look at the QY700, a big display, easy to learn and immer im takt.
Stefan
> 
> But I do miss Yamaha's QY series, in particular the QY-70 (nice and
small)
> and the QY-700 (Big Machine). Coincidentally I played with the QY700
this

> weekend, and I was possitively impressed.
> 
> :-)
> 
> Gert
> www.waveworld.tv

the Emu Command stations are the best of breed at the moment. That doesn't mean they're perfect however. But its a lot of power in a box for not a lot of money. The Yamaha QY100/70 are prettly cool for a small box. The QY700 is arguably one of the most powerful sequencers. But the problem with sequencers is the problem with everything: Flexibility vs. Simplicity.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Matt Picone 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 1:15 PM
  Subject: RE: [elektron] OT: External Sequencers


  > I want a good (easy to use, program, flexible, effects
  > section nice but optional, etc.) midi sequencer.

  The ultimate midi hardware sequencer does not exist. In fact, I don't
  even belive that there is a REALLY GOOD choice in the market today.
  Google Lennart Regebro's hardware sequencer comparison chart and either
  make the best choice you can based on the features you want, or join the
  mass of us who lament the absence of a really good midi sequencer in
  hardware. The topic is perennial at www.ampfea.org 's music bar.

  -m@


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> But the problem with 
> sequencers is the problem with everything: Flexibility vs. Simplicity.

Well, I'll only briefly say that while this problem is eveident in
today's sequencers, the bigger challenge is that no one wants to take on
the software sequencer in the market. The other problem, that which both
hard and soft sequencers today are marred by, is the loss of focus on
sequencing as part of live performances--  a good hardware midi
sequencer which encourages structural improvisation does NOT exist.

-m@

Some things come close like my Notron, but it is very delicate.

Some things are trying: http://www.colinfraser.com/p3/p3.htm

And maybeon the horizon: Spectralis

The E-mu Command Station's implementation of the MC505's Megamix, called X-MIX has allowed me to improvise for an hour with no prep whatsoever live in conjunction with other musicians live in a club.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Matt Picone 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 4:48 PM
  Subject: RE: [elektron] OT: External Sequencers


  > But the problem with 
  > sequencers is the problem with everything: Flexibility vs. Simplicity.

  Well, I'll only briefly say that while this problem is eveident in
  today's sequencers, the bigger challenge is that no one wants to take on
  the software sequencer in the market. The other problem, that which both
  hard and soft sequencers today are marred by, is the loss of focus on
  sequencing as part of live performances--  a good hardware midi
  sequencer which encourages structural improvisation does NOT exist.

  -m@


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 12/7/03 3:48 PM, Matt Picone wrote:

> a good hardware midi sequencer which encourages
> structural improvisation does NOT exist.

aha! I see you have not used the X-MIX feature of the
2.0 OS for the E-mu Command Stations! ;)


cheers,
aeon

> aha! I see you have not used the X-MIX feature of the
> 2.0 OS for the E-mu Command Stations! ;)
> 
> cheers,
> aeon

Something new in OS 2? What's it do?
I remember being disappointed by the sequencer
in the E-mu CS when I tried it out last year.

-m@

on 12/7/03 10:23 PM, Matt Picone wrote:

>> aha! I see you have not used the X-MIX feature of the
>> 2.0 OS for the E-mu Command Stations! ;)

> Something new in OS 2? What's it do?

it allows you to mix tracks from any pattern within
another pattern and replace them as you see fit in
real-time...

done creatively, you can do some amazing stuff.

> I remember being disappointed by the sequencer
> in the E-mu CS when I tried it out last year.

given what the CSes were like pre-2.0 (and what you
are looking for), I can understand why.


cheers,
aeon

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Picone" <matman@m...> 
wrote:
> sequencing as part of live performances--  a good hardware midi
> sequencer which encourages structural improvisation does NOT exist.

Hmm, ever played with RM1X or RS7000?
They offer a lot of realtime tweaking on the midi side.
Some examples:
- Realtime step/grid edit
- 6 knobs to alter midi params (realtime fx): Velocity, gate, swing, 
midi delay, time shift, timeline mutliplier/divider.
- Realtime loop remix to rearrange note order.
- Realtime groove edit.
It also has:
- Independed phrase lenghts per track.(track=midi channel)
- Independed Swing/ groove settings per track.
- use sections within a pattern wich can be instant switched from 
1/16th to one measure. (so you don't have to wait till the phrase 
ends)
- Scene memories wich can make snapshots of all settings so you can 
make dramatic changes with one single button.
You really have to know these before you can make a good judgement.

Ronald.

>>The ultimate midi hardware sequencer does not exist.<< 

Do you know this one:

http://www.s-n-d.com/sam16e.html    ?

These are all interesting analog sequencers.  But they are quite
limited and not that easy to use.  Besides who needs analog with midi?

I would recommend any of the MPCs from Akai.  I think the MPCs have
the best hardware sequencers out there.  Take note there is a cheaper
mpc1000 that has barely been out.  I think their orders are full until
next year.  You could find a used mpc2000 or xl.  Definitely better
than the command station.

You get two ins and outs.  A full sequencer with any time signature
you want.  Connected to a MD however, I think you want to make the MD
the master clock.  The mpc will sync up just fine.  They are samplers
too.  The 1000 comes with effects and separate audio outs.  You can
record midi events live.  Edit events.  Kind fo a small screen however.  

I'm really thinking of getting rid of my Virus and getting an mpc1000
with money for other things...

The www.mpc-tutor.com forum can give you some answers.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "kernzone" <s070666@s...> wrote:

> >>The ultimate midi hardware sequencer does not exist.<< 
> 
> Do you know this one:
> 
> http://www.s-n-d.com/sam16e.html    ?

The mpc60/3000 has a great sequencer. The mpc1000 is cut down, but has great storage features. However, IMO none of them can touch XMIX on the command stations for LIVE improv.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: endlessnessisticman 
  To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 5:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [elektron] OT: External Sequencers


  These are all interesting analog sequencers.  But they are quite
  limited and not that easy to use.  Besides who needs analog with midi?

  I would recommend any of the MPCs from Akai.  I think the MPCs have
  the best hardware sequencers out there.  Take note there is a cheaper
  mpc1000 that has barely been out.  I think their orders are full until
  next year.  You could find a used mpc2000 or xl.  Definitely better
  than the command station.

  You get two ins and outs.  A full sequencer with any time signature
  you want.  Connected to a MD however, I think you want to make the MD
  the master clock.  The mpc will sync up just fine.  They are samplers
  too.  The 1000 comes with effects and separate audio outs.  You can
  record midi events live.  Edit events.  Kind fo a small screen however.  

  I'm really thinking of getting rid of my Virus and getting an mpc1000
  with money for other things...

  The www.mpc-tutor.com forum can give you some answers.

  --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "kernzone" <s070666@s...> wrote:
  > >>The ultimate midi hardware sequencer does not exist.<< 
  > 
  > Do you know this one:
  > 
  > http://www.s-n-d.com/sam16e.html    ?


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Ravi Ivan Sharma wrote:

>   I would recommend any of the MPCs from Akai.

What would be the advantage(s) of an MPC above a Mac tibook with Ableton
Live?

thanx,

Gert
www.waveworld.tv

Allow me to introduce the Signal Arts sequencer:

http://home.eol.ca/%7Ejeffry/

This is the most complete sequencer I've seen up to
date.
By the way, there are a lot of advantages of the MPC
over Ableton Live. The MPC is a lot better at
controlling external gear. Ableton live is really for
handling loops, not sequencing synths. Really the MPC
is one of your best bets, but this signal arts
sequencer is intriguing, as it handles both MIDI and
CV Gate.



> >   I would recommend any of the MPCs from Akai.
> 
> What would be the advantage(s) of an MPC above a Mac
> tibook with Ableton
> Live?
> 
> thanx,
> 
> Gert
> www.waveworld.tv
> 
> 


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Now you got me thinking.  I have to say I think the mpc1000 has better
effects and sequencer resolution (96 per 1/4 note! smooth).  I think
the command station is cheaper but more controls and probably easier
to use?.  Can the command station sample?  I'm sure it's good for live
improv.  I'll take your word for it.  You can do live improv with the
mpcs too, but no live sampling only sequencing.  I think there is a
debate on the mpc-tutor forum.

As for ableton; ableton is great for matching audio files to tempo.  I
like it.  It has no midi sequencing.  Maybe in the future?  If you
record all your audio, all you need is the tibook for a live show. 
But I don't think a laptop can make a good show.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
<noision1@h...> wrote:
> The mpc60/3000 has a great sequencer. The mpc1000 is cut down, but
has great storage features. However, IMO none of them can touch XMIX
on the command stations for LIVE improv.
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: endlessnessisticman 
>   To: elektron-users@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 5:31 AM
>   Subject: Re: [elektron] OT: External Sequencers
> 
> 
>   These are all interesting analog sequencers.  But they are quite
>   limited and not that easy to use.  Besides who needs analog with midi?
> 
>   I would recommend any of the MPCs from Akai.  I think the MPCs have
>   the best hardware sequencers out there.  Take note there is a cheaper
>   mpc1000 that has barely been out.  I think their orders are full until
>   next year.  You could find a used mpc2000 or xl.  Definitely better
>   than the command station.
> 
>   You get two ins and outs.  A full sequencer with any time signature
>   you want.  Connected to a MD however, I think you want to make the MD
>   the master clock.  The mpc will sync up just fine.  They are samplers
>   too.  The 1000 comes with effects and separate audio outs.  You can
>   record midi events live.  Edit events.  Kind fo a small screen
however.  
> 
>   I'm really thinking of getting rid of my Virus and getting an mpc1000
>   with money for other things...
> 
>   The www.mpc-tutor.com forum can give you some answers.
> 
>   --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "kernzone" <s070666@s...>
wrote:

>   > >>The ultimate midi hardware sequencer does not exist.<< 
>   > 
>   > Do you know this one:
>   > 
>   > http://www.s-n-d.com/sam16e.html    ?
> 
> 
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
>        
>        
> 
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 12/8/03 4:31 AM, endlessnessisticman wrote:

> I would recommend any of the MPCs from Akai.
> I think the MPCs have the best hardware sequencers
> out there....Definitely better than the
> command station.

...unless live, interactive performance sequencing and
sequence remixing is a key part of your live toolset.

in this regard, the MPC-series lays down with a gentle
whimper whilst the E-mu Command Stations keep the music
flowing all night.

but hey, no surprise...they were each designed with a
different goal in mind...the E-mu's, with their button-
and knob-rich control surfaces, were clearly designed
to be manipulated in real-time.


cheers,
aeon

> > I would recommend any of the MPCs from Akai.
> > I think the MPCs have the best hardware sequencers
> > out there....Definitely better than the
> > command station.
> 
> ...unless live, interactive performance sequencing and
> sequence remixing is a key part of your live toolset.
> 
> in this regard, the MPC-series lays down with a gentle
> whimper whilst the E-mu Command Stations keep the music
> flowing all night.

Close, but still not nearly what I need from a live sequencer.
Someday I'll build it myself and put them all to shame.

-m@