Elektron Musical Instruments

MD SPS-1 or MM tabletop?

Although I've been involved with music my whole life, I'm
quite the 
newbie when it comes to electronic music.  Last year I picked up 
FLStudio, CubaseSX2, a midi controller, an audiophile 2496, and a 
few softsynths.  I've learned A LOT.  

This year I decided I wanted to move more in the direction of 
hardware.  I bought a microKorg and a mixer a few weeks ago and am 
really happy with it.  I've also just sold off a few pieces of my 
guitar rack and am looking to pick up a monomachine or a 
machinedrum :)

Up until a few days ago I had my eyes set on the MD SPS-1, but then 
the tabletop version of the Monomachine caught my eye.  Some of the 
sounds this thing churns out are absolutely amazing and seem to be 
exactly what I'm looking for.  

What I'm looking to do is create squelchy, noisy, distorted, sick 
sounding rhythms.  Obviously it's going to take me a while to
learn 
to do this so I want a machine I can grow into as this is going to 
be my last piece of gear for a long time.  I know the MD does pretty 
much what I'm looking for but I'm a little concerned about
being 
limited to only drum type sounds.  The MM seems to have a much wider 
array of sounds available, but how are the drum sounds?  Like I said 
I'm looking for crazy sounding drum kits, but does the MM also 
supply the resources to create typical sounding 909 kick drums and 
the like?  If I buy the MM, I'm worried about receiving it only
to 
immediately start lusting after a MD :)  Also I'm wondering about 
the table top version of the MM.  Am I better to wait till I can 
afford the keyboard version?

Given my gear and what I want to do, can anyone give me some advice 
here?  Perhaps I should just stick with the MD and pick up a MM when 
I can?  I've been listening to demos for 2 days now and am 
completely confused.  Help!  :)

Scott

On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 04:36:54PM -0000, moanersaa wrote:
>    What I'm looking to do is create squelchy, noisy, distorted, sick
>    sounding rhythms.  Obviously it's going to take me a while to
>    learn
>    to do this so I want a machine I can grow into as this is going to
>    be my last piece of gear for a long time.

either one will keep you happy for awhile, I'm sure. its just a question
of what you have now. if you're lacking in great-sounding unique synthesis
then I'd suggest the MnM. if you're lacking in unique and flexible
drums, then I'd suggest the MD. if you're lacking in both then you've
got some thinking to do :-)

>    I know the MD does pretty
>    much what I'm looking for but I'm a little concerned about
>    being
>    limited to only drum type sounds.  The MM seems to have a much wider
>    array of sounds available, but how are the drum sounds?

the drum sound palette of the MnM is tiny compared to the MD's. it
essentially has one of the MD's four machine types and it's a limited
implementation at that. BUT it is a great drum machine in itself; it
sounds terrific and it's very flexible (I use it all the time even
though I also have the MD). it's only when you compare it to the MD
that you see there is so much more possible :-)

>    Like I said
>    I'm looking for crazy sounding drum kits, but does the MM also
>    supply the resources to create typical sounding 909 kick drums and
>    the like?

not really. it's the E12 machine of the MD that the MnM is based on. the
MD's TRX machine is the one that is more 909-ish. so the MnM's drums, to
me, are better suited to elektro as well as lo-fi and hiphop-ish if you
tweak the filters right.

>    If I buy the MM, I'm worried about receiving it only
>    to
>    immediately start lusting after a MD :)

you will! but if you can only go for one and you have decent drums
already, I'd go for the MnM. also note here that the MnM's drum track
is monophonic; so in order to have two percussions sounds at once
(e.g. hi-hat and bass drum), you have to use two of the MnM's tracks.
if this is your only drum sequencer, then that would suck since it's
nice to use the MnM for its synthesis.

>    Also I'm wondering about
>    the table top version of the MM.  Am I better to wait till I can
>    afford the keyboard version?

I like having the keyboard at hand because I like being able to create
and sequence parts immediately and on-the-fly. I also like the way the
joystick works in multi-trig mode (going in and out of it while playing
can breathe a lot of life into some very simple sequences). the joystick
can be substituted by a decent MIDI controller (it's PB + Mod wheel + CC2).
so if you think you'll end up using these features a lot then it would
be better to get the keyboard version.

>    Given my gear and what I want to do, can anyone give me some advice
>    here?  Perhaps I should just stick with the MD and pick up a MM when
>    I can?

if you think you'll have money to get the second one relatively soon, then
I'd suggest the MnM for sure since you will still get great drum sounds
out of it. then the MD will just take you into a new heaven entirely.
but again, this depends on what you already have that you're happy with.

and especially if you're gonna try and get both soon, I'd say go with
the MnM tabletop. if you decide that you'd like the KB/joystick
then you can sell it and upgrade (Elektron stuff seems to retain its
value very well, so you'll likely only lose a bit of $ going this way).

hope that helps!
Joe

p.s. as a fellow long-time musician (drummer for 15 years) who's not
been into electronics all that long (well, not as long as I've been drumming
at least), I'm guessing you'll love the real-time useability of the
Elektron gear :-)

I don't have nearly the experience on both of these that many do 
here, having just picked up both within the last 2-3 weeks, but I'd 
say the following.

I've been finding the Monomachine fantastic for creating percussive 
sounds that go beyond what you're going to get with a drum machine, 
even a powerful one like the Machinedrum. However, if you are looking 
for traditional drum/percussions sounds, it is extremely limited 
compared to the Machinedrum. If you devote one of the 6 tracks to the 
sampled drum sounds (there is only one drum 'machine' in the 
Monomachine), you don't get any polyphony, so you'd have to devote 
multiple tracks, and there are only 6 total for all of your sounds 
and effects. 

If you need to have lots of more traditional electronic percussion 
(and it can get pretty crazy), I'd say opt for the machinedrum right 
now. Another option would be to get the Monomachine, and then a much 
less powerful drum machine like the er-1 (not a bad little 'toy')for 
now. You could even process the er-1 or other cheap drum machine 
through the Monomachine for some additional fun.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "moanersaa" <moanersaa@h...> 
wrote:
> MD SPS-1 or MM tabletop?
> 
> Although I've been involved with music my whole life, I'm
> quite the 
> newbie when it comes to electronic music.  Last year I picked up 
> FLStudio, CubaseSX2, a midi controller, an audiophile 2496, and a 
> few softsynths.  I've learned A LOT.  
> 
> This year I decided I wanted to move more in the direction of 
> hardware.  I bought a microKorg and a mixer a few weeks ago and am 
> really happy with it.  I've also just sold off a few pieces of my 
> guitar rack and am looking to pick up a monomachine or a 
> machinedrum :)
> 
> Up until a few days ago I had my eyes set on the MD SPS-1, but then 
> the tabletop version of the Monomachine caught my eye.  Some of the 
> sounds this thing churns out are absolutely amazing and seem to be 
> exactly what I'm looking for.  
> 
> What I'm looking to do is create squelchy, noisy, distorted, sick 
> sounding rhythms.  Obviously it's going to take me a while to
> learn 
> to do this so I want a machine I can grow into as this is going to 
> be my last piece of gear for a long time.  I know the MD does 
pretty 
> much what I'm looking for but I'm a little concerned about
> being 
> limited to only drum type sounds.  The MM seems to have a much 
wider 
> array of sounds available, but how are the drum sounds?  Like I 
said 
> I'm looking for crazy sounding drum kits, but does the MM also 
> supply the resources to create typical sounding 909 kick drums and 
> the like?  If I buy the MM, I'm worried about receiving it only
> to 
> immediately start lusting after a MD :)  Also I'm wondering about 
> the table top version of the MM.  Am I better to wait till I can 
> afford the keyboard version?
> 
> Given my gear and what I want to do, can anyone give me some advice 
> here?  Perhaps I should just stick with the MD and pick up a MM 
when 

> I can?  I've been listening to demos for 2 days now and am 
> completely confused.  Help!  :)
> 
> Scott

Thanks guys for being so helpful!  

After reading your posts and looking around some more I think
I've 
decided on the Monomachine.  

Unfortunately either way I go my schedule and location doesn't
allow 
for much gigging so I will be using this thing mostly in my tiny 
little studio.  I'm thinking if I want traditional drum sounds
I'll 
use FLStudio.  It's treated me good so far and I've found
some real 
nice free samples on the net.  The thought of buying some RCA to
¼" 
cables and piping some drum sounds from my sound card to the 
Monomachine and then back to my mixer and sound card sounds exciting 
too.

Ultimately I want to get away from traditional sounding drum parts 
and work more towards minimalist kick drums supported by rhythmic 
blips, hisses, squelches, and just random weirdness.  I think the 
Monomachine will push me more in that direction.

What seals the deal is the fact I can't even find a used SPS-1
for 
sale.  I'm guessing that means the Monomachine is going to be
just 
as desirable and the fact I can always sell it and swap it for a MD 
is reassuring.  

Thanks again!  I'll be watching for anymore advice :)


Scott

I was gonna say since reading all the replies that the Monomachine is
the way to go, especially the tabletop version.  And there is someone
selling theirs second hand here.  Go for his.  Sorry Elektron.  You'll
get the same support and guarantees and that.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "moanersaa" <moanersaa@h...> wrote:

> Thanks guys for being so helpful!  
> 
> After reading your posts and looking around some more I think
> I've 
> decided on the Monomachine.  
> 
> Unfortunately either way I go my schedule and location doesn't
> allow 
> for much gigging so I will be using this thing mostly in my tiny 
> little studio.  I'm thinking if I want traditional drum sounds
> I'll 
> use FLStudio.  It's treated me good so far and I've found
> some real 
> nice free samples on the net.  The thought of buying some RCA to
> ¼" 
> cables and piping some drum sounds from my sound card to the 
> Monomachine and then back to my mixer and sound card sounds exciting 
> too.
> 
> Ultimately I want to get away from traditional sounding drum parts 
> and work more towards minimalist kick drums supported by rhythmic 
> blips, hisses, squelches, and just random weirdness.  I think the 
> Monomachine will push me more in that direction.
> 
> What seals the deal is the fact I can't even find a used SPS-1
> for 
> sale.  I'm guessing that means the Monomachine is going to be
> just 
> as desirable and the fact I can always sell it and swap it for a MD 
> is reassuring.  
> 
> Thanks again!  I'll be watching for anymore advice :)
> 
> 
> Scott

my feeling is this:

MD: easiest percussion, can be worked to do harmonic stuff
MnM: easiest harmonic stuff, can be worked to do percussion

both are very versitle electronic instruments. i went for the MnM 
because i wasn't afraid of having only 6 tracks, it has a wider 
variety of synthesis methods, and it can do pitched sounds. 

> If you need to have lots of more traditional electronic percussion 
> (and it can get pretty crazy), I'd say opt for the machinedrum 
> now. Another option would be to get the Monomachine, and then a 
> less powerful drum machine like the er-1 (not a bad little 'toy')
> now. You could even process the er-1 or other cheap drum machine 
> through the Monomachine for some additional fun.
> 

i think this is an excelent suggestion! the er-1 is a good one (i had 
a lot of fun w/ mine, now it's lent to a friend while i dork out on 
the mono ;), but the korg es-1 may be a wiser investment. 

the er-1's synthesis would seem weak next to a monomachine or 
machinedrum, where the es-1 would add the capability of sampling--
something none of the elektron gear does.

on the other hand, the MnM has 6 channels of MIDI to control external 
gear ... so you could also just go with a sound module/sampler which 
could be less expensive than the es-1. can anyone recomend a sampler 
that is as easy to get sound into as an sk-1, but can also be 
triggered by midi (i know about the kit to turn sk-1 into midi, but 
maybe another feature i'd like is to hold more samples)? that would 
be some real fun ;D    ... i had an akai s2000 and ensoniq mirage 
before, both were real bitches to work with :[

ok bye!
j.ordan

can anyone recomend a sampler 
> that is as easy to get sound into as an sk-1, but can also be 
> triggered by midi (i know about the kit to turn sk-1 into midi, but 
> maybe another feature i'd like is to hold more samples)? that would 
> be some real fun ;D    ... i had an akai s2000 and ensoniq mirage 
> before, both were real bitches to work with :[

Emax, Emax 2, EIII, ASR-10/X....

I've had my hands on all of them and have to say the EIII o.s. is my 
favorite (emax 1/2/esi all very similar).  I am waiting for an Emax 2 
to arrive ($200) to go with my MnM.
Asr-10 are very easy to use as well, resampling with effects great, 
but they are a bit pricey now - so if you have space for more 
tabletop stuff the asr-x/pro would work, just don't use the sequencer 
and deal with the slow scsi times.  A friend let me borrow his 
CD3000i, and the Akai o.s. is pretty much a pain, as is the Kurzweil.

Since the Elektron gear has effects, get an emax, bunches for sale on 
ebay recently, the keyboard versions have that big space on the right 
where the MnM tabletop could fit.

Vote for a Emax too. I own a EMAX 1 and it´s very nice for Lofi 
Samples - It gives you the original Lofi Effect which you get whith 
all that LOFI VST and Direct X Effects outthere... But don´t buy an 
Emax if you want to do "professional" Sampling. Besides that Emax 
getting expensive again since that kind of 12Bit Hype. But it´s still 
better then buying a SP12 for 1500 bugs. 

Heard the ASR-10 has a good sound, but never tried one. 
I owned a Yamaha A3000 and it´s very cheap these days... but the 
knobs sucks and i don´t liked programming on it..so i sold it.

I am also looking for a better Sampler to work with. Still have no 
clue. It should have some creative features for Soundsynthesis. 
Maybee a Kurzweil is a good one for that ... dunno

After all i think Samplers are not very creative at Soundprogramming -
 more or less it is always the same concept.  I wish Electron comes 
up with a creative Sampler one day !

-phono



--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "snmcur2000" <snmcur2000@y...> 
wrote:
> can anyone recomend a sampler 
> > that is as easy to get sound into as an sk-1, but can also be 
> > triggered by midi (i know about the kit to turn sk-1 into midi, 
but 
> > maybe another feature i'd like is to hold more samples)? that 
would 
> > be some real fun ;D    ... i had an akai s2000 and ensoniq mirage 
> > before, both were real bitches to work with :[
> 
> Emax, Emax 2, EIII, ASR-10/X....
> 
> I've had my hands on all of them and have to say the EIII o.s. is 
my 
> favorite (emax 1/2/esi all very similar).  I am waiting for an Emax 
2 
> to arrive ($200) to go with my MnM.
> Asr-10 are very easy to use as well, resampling with effects great, 
> but they are a bit pricey now - so if you have space for more 
> tabletop stuff the asr-x/pro would work, just don't use the 
sequencer 
> and deal with the slow scsi times.  A friend let me borrow his 
> CD3000i, and the Akai o.s. is pretty much a pain, as is the 
Kurzweil.
> 
> Since the Elektron gear has effects, get an emax, bunches for sale 
on 
> ebay recently, the keyboard versions have that big space on the 
right 
> where the MnM tabletop could fit.

You could also look into the mpc range of akai samplers.  They are
quite good.  You may be interested in an mpc1000 or a used 2000xl. 
The MPC1000 has a usb storage device.  I'm also interested in the korg
sx sampler.  Lots of controls on that one.  On the software side the
Kontakt or Ableton's Live is nice too.  These have built in lofi
effects.  Very versitile samplers with the storage of a hard drive.  I
just might buy Live.

I thought Elektron was comming out with a sampler when they teased
about the monomachine.

--- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "phonophobie" <sidstation@h...>
wrote:

> Vote for a Emax too. I own a EMAX 1 and it´s very nice for Lofi 
> Samples - It gives you the original Lofi Effect which you get whith 
> all that LOFI VST and Direct X Effects outthere... But don´t buy an 
> Emax if you want to do "professional" Sampling. Besides that Emax 
> getting expensive again since that kind of 12Bit Hype. But it´s still 
> better then buying a SP12 for 1500 bugs. 
> 
> Heard the ASR-10 has a good sound, but never tried one. 
> I owned a Yamaha A3000 and it´s very cheap these days... but the 
> knobs sucks and i don´t liked programming on it..so i sold it.
> 
> I am also looking for a better Sampler to work with. Still have no 
> clue. It should have some creative features for Soundsynthesis. 
> Maybee a Kurzweil is a good one for that ... dunno
> 
> After all i think Samplers are not very creative at Soundprogramming -
>  more or less it is always the same concept.  I wish Electron comes 
> up with a creative Sampler one day !
> 
> -phono
> 
> 
> 
> --- In elektron-users@yahoogroups.com, "snmcur2000" <snmcur2000@y...> 
> wrote:
> > can anyone recomend a sampler 
> > > that is as easy to get sound into as an sk-1, but can also be 
> > > triggered by midi (i know about the kit to turn sk-1 into midi, 
> but 
> > > maybe another feature i'd like is to hold more samples)? that 
> would 
> > > be some real fun ;D    ... i had an akai s2000 and ensoniq mirage 
> > > before, both were real bitches to work with :[
> > 
> > Emax, Emax 2, EIII, ASR-10/X....
> > 
> > I've had my hands on all of them and have to say the EIII o.s. is 
> my 
> > favorite (emax 1/2/esi all very similar).  I am waiting for an Emax 
> 2 
> > to arrive ($200) to go with my MnM.
> > Asr-10 are very easy to use as well, resampling with effects great, 
> > but they are a bit pricey now - so if you have space for more 
> > tabletop stuff the asr-x/pro would work, just don't use the 
> sequencer 
> > and deal with the slow scsi times.  A friend let me borrow his 
> > CD3000i, and the Akai o.s. is pretty much a pain, as is the 
> Kurzweil.
> > 
> > Since the Elektron gear has effects, get an emax, bunches for sale 
> on 
> > ebay recently, the keyboard versions have that big space on the 
> right 
> > where the MnM tabletop could fit.

thanks for the advice everyone! my problem is that i'm trying to keep 
my gear to a minimum so i can fit everything in my bedroom/studio. i 
have an old yamaha psr midi keyboard right now, maybe i'll ditch that 
and pick up an emax (i am by no means a "professional," i'm used to 
downsampling to 4bit for my gameboy's sample banks ;). i was thinking 
of getting a microkontrol since it is small and could sit in my bed 
w/ the mono and me, but if i can be comfortable working at a larger 
keyboard that's just as well.

so snmcur2000, lemme know how the MnM fits on that emax 2! right now 
i work with the MnM in my lap and it's very nice to do that (again, 
i'm used to lounging around w/ my gameboy). for a while i had it on a 
desk and got very uncomfortable leaning over to see the screen and 
edit it. i'm concerned if i had it on a keyboard i would have to do 
the same thing. working has to be fun!!!

my next project is building a midi synch box for LSDj to make my 
gameboy and MnM friends ... so i have a little time to think about a 
sampler/whatever i wind up choosing to compliment the setup. a 
keyboard sampler combo seems like a good idea ... i'd also be real 
happy if i could avoid using a mixer and have my gameboy going into 
one mnm channel and whatever else into the other . . . 

ok that's all!
j.ordan


p.s. my gameboy (just had to mention it again) 

p.p.s. MnM !!!!!!