(!!Explicative!!)) I wish I had known that before I saw that Audiomedia III card. It comes with Pro Tools LE 5.0.1 which is not even upgradable to 5.1 unless you purchase a new license (another ex-post-facto). So now I am obligated on Ebay to either buy it or try and politely get out of it. Here I was thinking I could have one piece of Mac equipment that could run both sampler software exchange programs AND pull a little duty mastering anything else. But I guess the Nubus Macs are the best bargain for the money since they can do the most ancient of things and still run a later system. I don't think I am going to buy SD (1.5?) for Emax. I expect I'll just work with Alchemy and try to back out of the auction, unless... Does anyone know a way then to modify the init file or other such to remove a capital "I" from Audiomedia III to II? LOL. Then the system would think it was a Nubus. I read something on another page somewhere where you could do something like that with another type of setup. Well, at least now I am something of an expert on what NOT to do... --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@...> wrote: > > 2.82 is more for hard disk recording and 2 track mastering rather than having sampler support it was produced at a time when comps became fast enough and hard drives became cheap enough for professional home recording studio,s > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thenewyorkcowboy > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:40 AM > Subject: [emax] Re: Emax II with MAC Se > > > > Are there any editing features/effects/etc. that 2.82 has that Alchemy 3.0 does not? An extra feature it can perform perhaps? > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, Elk Latham <elk_latham@> wrote: > > > > In case you didn't know, SD 2.82 doesn't have sampler support. It's a great editor for files, but that's it. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: thenewyorkcowboy <thenewyorkcowboy@> > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Tue, December 8, 2009 7:40:09 AM > > Subject: [emax] Re: Emax II with MAC Se > > > > Â > > Yes I just figured that one out. I went to digidesigns support site and found a new digidesign INIT file group that is recommended for our SD 2.82 file here, so I uploaded it to the files section. It is version 3.4.2 and is a self installer, which is nice. > > > > Then I checked Ebay and found an Audiomedia III PCI card with Pro Tools 5.1 included and won it for $37 including shipping! Will there never be a shortage of little tidbits to buy? LOL. You are absolutely next on the $42 list Ted! > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com, Ted Summers <djtbs1@> wrote: > > > > > > Soundesigner of some versions require an Audiomedia 2 or Audiomedia 3 card > > > made by digidesign. Which is why I stuck with Alchemy, and didn't mess with > > > it, as I traded in my Audiomedia 3 PCI card for a Digi002 Rack a while > > > back..... > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 6:54 AM, thenewyorkcowboy <thenewyorkcowboy@ ... > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > UPDATE: Sound Designer II 2.7 will not start on my G3 because I do not have > > > > a DSP card installed. Is the WINGS A/V personality card considered a DSP? > > > > > > > > And Alchemy 3.0 is up and running on OS 8.6! Looks like a prettier > > > > interface as well, nice modern colors.... > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, "thenewyorkcowboy" > > > > <thenewyorkcowboy@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Well tried as I did, I could not get IE 5.1.7 to work correctly even > > > > after installing 10 new major security certificates, so it is going in the > > > > trash. > > > > > > > > > > I did find "Icab" 3.0.5 for Mac 8.6 and it installed fine, imported my > > > > bookmarks and allowed me to logon here so I am typing from my PPC, yay! I > > > > also found Netscape 7.02 for Mac 8.6 and will try that one out as well since > > > > it is based on Gecko, but there is a huge difference in file size, 19.9MB > > > > for the installer compared to just 3MB for Icab. I will be playing with both > > > > now and see which one has more problems with pages elsewhere and then decide > > > > on the default, but NS7.02 is much older (Aug.'04) than Icab which was > > > > released Jan.'08 so I am initially leaning towards Icab but I will report > > > > back at some point if there exists some worthwhile advantages. > > > > > > > > > > But for now, I downloaded Alchemy and SD, and will be taking them through > > > > an initial run to verify 8.6 compatibility and will be soldering up a cable > > > > this week. > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime, could someone upload a verified .iso image of a CD image > > > > created with EMXP that is working for them? My next step from here is to > > > > determine which of my SCSI CD ROMs can actually be recognized by my EmaxII > > > > and load a bank. I've burned 2 discs already and neither seem to be > > > > recognized, so I want to make sure that I actually have a valid image to > > > > compare. Also, is there a certain way to burn the file system, ISO 9660, > > > > Joliet, etc.? that the Emax needs to see? Maybe that is my mistake. Other > > > > options are session at once, disc at once, etc. If someone has some > > > > recommendations I would appreciate it. > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, "thenewyorkcowboy" > > > > <thenewyorkcowboy@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I would like to stay with 8.6 and not have to go backwards to 8.1, > > > > as 8.6 can support USB PCI cards. I first have to resolve this browser > > > > problem which I have found out through more research that the trouble I am > > > > having is a combination of a dead PRAM battery so I have to order one, as > > > > the time and date has to match for proper security certificates, then I have > > > > to get the new certificates into IE 5.1.7 If all goes right I will be able > > > > to surf all the newer sites without problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > If I accomplish all that then I will probably install a different hard > > > > drive so I will have the room for two volumes within the first 7GB which is > > > > recommended, and then have the other volume for the storage area. I have a > > > > Rev. C board so I should not have any problems with drive configurations. > > > > I'll let you know how it goes. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, Ted Summers > > > > <djtbs1@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a Beige G3, that is the last that had the ports, though you > > > > > > > could add them to a G3 blue and white or a G4 sawtooth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think Alchemy worked with OS 9, or it had problems. Don't > > > > > > > recall exactly.... > > > > > > > I have an Performa 6214CD just for the purpose of use with Emax. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Running XP in a window on the the Beige is doable, but is slow. I had > > > > > > > > > > > a G4 / 500Mhz upgrade in it, but it didn't help that much. > > > > > > > You can't run earlier than OS 9 in classic. > > > > > > > That system can't be loaded with earlier than 8.1... and you have to > > > > > > > use a workaround to get Tiger to run on it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want OS X and OS 8.1 which does work with alchemy, put it on > > > > > > > two different volumes on the same hard drive. > > > > > > > That is one way to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, the Beige is limited to 137GB drive size on the IDE bus..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is some of what I recall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 5, 2009, at 5:01 PM, thenewyorkcowboy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, yes, the primary objective here is to figure out what is the > > > > > > > highest Mac OS that will still run both Alchemy and SD2.5. I have a > > > > > > > friend who has tons of Mac equipment and access to just about every > > > > OS > > > > > > > ever released, so I am looking for the highest functionality on my > > > > > > > Beige G3 Desktop. It can run OSX as per the Apple site, I have OS8.6 > > > > > > > loaded right now, but I am wondering should I try and get it to 9.2.2 > > > > > > > > > > > or go for OSX and run in classic mode, etc? The major difficulty I am > > > > > > > > > > > experiencing is that I just don't want a limited OS i.e. a dedicated > > > > > > > system just so I can play with sounds from the EmaxII. With the 8.6 I > > > > > > > > > > > have installed I can surf online with IE 5.1.7 for Mac, but I can't > > > > > > > log into this site for example because of security features that are > > > > > > > built in. The browser does not display Captchas and cannot deal with > > > > a > > > > > > > standard login with password either. So everything I have been doing > > > > > > > so far I have to do on the PC and then burn to CD and transfer it > > > > that > > > > > > > way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The other links were to simply verify up to what point the Mac > > > > > > > hardware still contained a 422/232 port for the cable assembly. My G3 > > > > > > > > > > > has a 266cpu and 512mb of memory, but I can push it up to 768mb and > > > > > > > buy a ZIF upgrade to 1Ghz if it is going to be the last piece of > > > > > > > hardware that has the 422 port, then I could run OSX with ease plus > > > > > > > still have access to the functions of Alchemy and SD2.5. That way I > > > > > > > could use it with more utility and download the files directly, share > > > > > > > > > > > any new banks or samples, etc, without having to port them over to my > > > > > > > > > > > PC and such. So before I invest more $$ and time, I wanted to know > > > > the > > > > > > > last modern Mac with a 422 port that works and the highest OS that > > > > > > > still runs Alchemy and SD. In this way it would be also a neat feat > > > > to > > > > > > > use other software on the MAC to emulate a PC or make a virtual one > > > > so > > > > > > > that EMXP could run on it as well with omniflop and everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the 422 converter, would looking at the chip that MACs use > > > > > > > help? And are we going for USB connectivity or will the PC that uses > > > > > > > the converter need a serial port? Will a driver be written for Linux > > > > > > > as well? What about Windows 7? Those are mostly just thoughts > > > > rambling > > > > > > > about my head, not pressure or demands, just trying to get on the > > > > same > > > > > > > page as everyone else, that is why I did all that reading...;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and THANKS! for the emulator archive link. I had seen that page > > > > > > > about two years ago, if I had remembered it I wouldn't have asked > > > > > > > about the cable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, "esynthesist" > > > > <esynthesist@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what you are aiming to, based on all these messages > > > > > > > and information which you have been reading :-) > > > > > > > > - do you want to get Alchemy, SD, or any other vintage software > > > > > > > running with Emax/Emax-II connectivity on higher Mac versions ? > > > > > > > > - do you want to find out how to come up with a device supporting > > > > > > > externally clocked RS422 for use with any modern computer equipment ? > > > > > > > > - do you just basically want to get Alchemy, SD of any other > > > > > > > software running with Emax/Emax-II connectivity on a vintage Mac > > > > > > > (Classic, SE, ...) ? > > > > > > > > - do you want to make new software for communication between > > > > > > > computer and Emax/Emax-II ? > > > > > > > > - ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With respect to your questions, I can only answer the first two of > > > > > > > them: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1/ Yes, I have a minidin8 <--> DB9 cable perfectly working between > > > > > > > my Mac and my Emax/Emax-II. The cable specs are available on > > > > > > > emulatorarchive: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.emulator archive.com/ Archives/ Samplers/ EmaxOverview/ EmaxEditors/ emaxeditors. html > > > > > > > > This obviously is the RS422 variant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2/ Alchemy would be a better starting point in terms of native > > > > Emax- > > > > > > > II support but ONLY for sample transfer communication. If all > > > > possible > > > > > > > RS422 commands should be supported, then SoundDesigner for Emax is a > > > > > > > better choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that we are "only" one step away from new software running on > > > > > > > Windows XP/Vista (or Mac OS X or higher) which can communicate with > > > > > > > Emu samplers. The only missing part is an externally clockable RS422 > > > > > > > port which can be put in between the Emax and the computer :-) > > > > > > > > I have already a working prototype communication software on my PC. > > > > > > > > A few days ago someone mailed me with the message that the KeySpan > > > > > > > XG 28 (USB/RS422) device for Mac probably supports external clocking. > > > > > > > > > > > But I don't know if this is true because when I was looking to its > > > > > > > specs a year ago, I read somewhere that synchronous communication is > > > > > > > NOT supported by that adapter. Also, this device - which is already > > > > > > > obsolete - was only released with Mac drivers, not Windows drivers. > > > > > > > > Of course it is not true to say that these externally clockable > > > > > > > RS422 ports for modern computers don't exist - in industrial apps > > > > they > > > > > > > are being used. But their price is way too high for us (500 USD...) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also have a prototype device here from a fellow member, but we > > > > > > > are still trying to get it working :-) Maybe I will connect my > > > > > > > Oscilloscope to that device this weekend, it's been a while... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > //E-Synthesist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, > > > > "thenewyorkcowboy" <thenewyorkcowboy@ > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This looks like a good time to interject a few questions... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the page I started with: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://launch. groups.yahoo. com/group/ emax/message/ 4847 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I did my own research and found this page: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://support. apple.com/ kb/SP130 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://lowendmac. com/tech/ serial.shtml > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Which I have...so I am convinced that the 8 pin mini din can > > > > > > > handle both RS422 and RS232 depending on the CABLE!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What they are talking about as the "obsolete" port is what is > > > > > > > considered a GeoPort, it only has 4 pins in the mini-Din. So anyone > > > > > > > who has 8 pin serial ports on any Mac can use either Sound Forge or > > > > > > > Alchemy... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was said earlier in the posts that neither software can do > > > > > > > entire bank transfers, but I am not at that point yet...What I need > > > > is > > > > > > > someone to clarify these last questions I have before I am going to > > > > be > > > > > > > able to contribute something to the conversation. .. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On ANY Mac with the two "422 serial" ports (8 pin Mini Dins) it > > > > > > > certainly does seem true that they will accept up to a 2Mb external > > > > > > > clock. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Did we get this pinout solved from post? I only have: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.interfac ebus.com/ Apple_MiniDIN_ PinOut.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://saragossa. net/intfcing. html (scroll to far bottom) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to determine how to "make" a cable to connect to the Emax II > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and these posts to leave me wondering: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://launch. groups.yahoo. com/group/ emax/message/ 5241 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://launch. groups.yahoo. com/group/ emax/message/ 4789 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (and the following conversation that ensues) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and finally... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://launch. groups.yahoo. com/group/ emax/message/ 4838 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, I have to ask::: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Has anyone actually built a Mini Din-8 cable to the EmaxII > > > > > > > serial port or a DB-9 serial, and got it to work with Alchemy? What > > > > > > > are the final pinouts? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. I know what our Files section holds in the way of Alchemy and > > > > > > > Sound Designer...which is the 'best' version that we should be > > > > > > > focusing on as a prototype? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. The last question is a little more specific, if anyone has a > > > > > > > later MAC OS working with any of the software versions metioned in #2 > > > > > > > > > > > above, what is it? Will MAC OS 9.2.2 work with Alchemy 2.5 through a > > > > > > > soldered MiniDin-8 to DB-9 cable to the EmaxII? Will OSX work in > > > > > > > classic mode? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > These are the questions I need answered to port some more > > > > > > > information into the loop. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kirk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, tu@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to the sysex spec, the Emax II can receive Emax I > > > > > > > compressed bank transfers. It needs > > > > > > > > > > to for compatibility with the RS422 CDROM drive! But it does > > > > > > > not support transmitting compressed > > > > > > > > > > banks or any transfer of 16 bit banks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sample transfer using high or low speed MMA sample dumping is > > > > > > > also limited to maximum sample > > > > > > > > > > size of 2M words (4MB in 16 bit samples). So an Emax II bank > > > > > > > containing a sample longer than this > > > > > > > > > > will not be possible to transfer over RS422 or MIDI. This would > > > > > > > > > > > not be a problem for most sample > > > > > > > > > > banks but does prevent a universal method of bank transfer > > > > > > > between the Emax II and a computer. > > > > > > > > > > The solution is of course to save such banks to disk and then > > > > > > > load from there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /Tristan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5th, 2009 at 8:33 AM, esynthesist <esynthesist@ > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alchemy doesn't support bank transfers with any sampler. > > > > > > > > > > > It only supports sample transfers, including an interesting > > > > > > > "bulk" > > > > > > > > > > > mode to transfer all samples at once. But that's still > > > > > > > without any of > > > > > > > > > > > the preset and voice parameters.. . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact no software supports bank transfers with the Emax-II. > > > > > > > > > > > I will add it to EMXP as soon as we get the RS422 device for > > > > > > > PC up > > > > > > > > > > > and running... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ///E-Synthesist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, "John" > > > > <jrb1864@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does Alchemy support bank transfers to and from Emax 2? How > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > depth are the sample edit features? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com>, > > > > "Rish" <rish@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey If anyone needs the Alchemy ver 3.0 full manual I > > > > > > > have 5 of > > > > > > > > > > > them available. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard at www.Route66studios. com<http://www.route66s tudios.com/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sanctifiedone@ > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:56 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [emax] Emax II with MAC Se > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love posts like this one from Ted. And while I'm at it, > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > also want to express my appreciation for group members like > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > willing to help me untangle my EMAX II problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ted Summers" <djtbs1@> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups. com <emax%40yahoogroups .com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:58:49 AM GMT -05:00 > > > > > > > > > > > US/Canada Eastern > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [emax] Emax II with MAC Se > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alchemy software v3.0 sit is in the groups files section, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > it works...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:57 AM, John <jrb1864@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have an Emax 2 with 2mb ram, jazz drives, floppies, > > > > > > > cables > > > > > > > > > > > and connector > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cable to the MAC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a dream...a dream of running my Emax 2 with sound > > > > > > > > > > > designer or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alchemy. Alas no luck, I only have Sound Designer > > > > > > > Universal > > > > > > > > > > > and it's not > > > > > > > > > > > > > > working with the EMAX 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have Sound Designer Universal in the box, original > > > > > > > disks > > > > > > > > > > > etc, a MAC SE, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > systems 6, and 7 but unable to find the Alchemy > > > > > > > software or > > > > > > > > > > > Sound Designer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that works with Emax 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I can't get it all to work I will give up on this > > > > > > > dream > > > > > > > > > > > and sell the lot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to someone, preferably on the forum, with love, > > > > > > > patience, and > > > > > > > > > > > abilities to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make this system work and send me photos! LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have the software I need or time and willingness > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > help me through > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it I would appreciate otherwise I'm selling it all for > > > > > > > $350 > > > > > > > > > > > plus shipping > > > > > > > > > > > > > > costs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks all! Maybe one day..... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emax and Emax II User's Group Website > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.silveria family.comYahoo<http://www.silveria family.comyahoo/>! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.98/2552 - Release Date: 12/08/09 07:34:00 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >
Message
Re: Emax II with MAC Se
2009-12-10 by thenewyorkcowboy