2009-12-13 by tu@...
Well said E-Synthesist! Hopefully this can go into a FAQ so we don't need to keep revisiting this discussion :P
One minor issue with transferring banks by sample dump and parameter SYSEX is that any sequences in the bank will be
lost. Sequences share memory space with samples in the Emax and Emax II but as far as I know cannot be transferred
independently over SYSEX. However, transfer of compressed Emax banks can include sequences as they are part of the
fixed size 512kB sample memory block.
/Tristan
Sunday, December 13, 2009, 7:11:32 PM, you wrote:
>
The difference between bank and sample is more radical than you describe: a sample *only* consists of the actual sound
sample points (like a WAV). No voice or preset parameters are transferred when transferring samples, so filter settings or
any other voice/preset parameter are ignored.
A bank transfer transfers *everything* which is in the bank, including samples but also including all preset and voice
parameters.
When it comes to transferring samples, the main advantage of Alchemy is that it can transfer *all* samples at once (but
still "just" samples - so no parameters), which speeds up the process because you don't have to click on your mouse for
each individual sample transfer :-)
"Realtime features" of SD for Emax means that you can use the Mac as a kind of remote control for your Emax. This means
you can connect the Mac to the Emax, and change e.g. the filter Q for a selected voice on your Mac instead of directly on the
top panel of the Emax. Immediately after having changed a parameter in this way, it will have been changed in the Emax
memory also, so when you play the Emax you will hear the difference.
The main reason for having these features is that a sound programmer would be able to construct a complete preset on a
Mac without having to touch the Emax at all while still hearing the intermediate results of his design process directly through
the Emax hardware. It's like the Emax is controllable as a kind of VST on a Mac. The same can be done today with
some "hardware VST" like Nord Modular G1/G2, some Origin equipment, and many more...
Once the sound designer is happy with the constructed presets and samples (tested on the Emax itself) he can transfer the
whole bank from Emax to Mac to make a final backup copy on the computer (which can be uploaded later to the Emax
again).
With respect to the limitation of compressed bank uploads to the Emax-II, note that this upload is at HIGH SPEED, not at low
speed.
The other direction (from Emax-II to Mac) has been removed from the Emax-II OS because of "practical reasons" (sic Emu):
before being able to send the compressed bank to the Mac, the 16-bit bank would first have to be compressed on the Emax-
II which would take a while before the actual transfer can start. For me this is not a convincing argument, because I would
have implemented this compression in "real time" during the transfer itself, but... I was not an engineer at Emu :-). A slightly
better argument is of course that >1MB 16-bit banks would not have been supported this way, because that's the maximum
which can be stored in a compressed Emax-I bank.
But I still don't understand why Emu didn't add a similar "one shot" bank upload/download SYSEX command for 16-bit banks
(up to 8 MB). True, it would take several minutes to transfer a huge bank...but at least it would have been an alternative.
I guess the standard SCSI on the Emax-II was considered to be a much better (and faster) alternative, so no one would
bother about the missing RS422 option.
What I will do in EMXP is use the full library of finer grained SYSEX messages to download/upload the different parameters
and sound data, instead of the missing "one-shot" SYSEX message which instructs a full bank up/download at once. However
trying to assemble a bank based on individual SYSEX messages like "get voice parameter 1", "get voice parameter 2" etc
will of course require a complex software program AND will take more time for transferring a bank because of the overhead
of so many SYSEX commands to be sent (at 31250 baud).
Fortunately the sound data itself (samples) can still be transferred at 500000 baud via MMA, so the biggest part of the bank
can still be transferred at high speed and with only a few SYSEX commands.
Once a test version of my software is ready, I will have a better feeling whether this way of data transfer is sufficiently user-
friendly or not from response time point of view. Now I'm just guessing based on theoretical calculations.
///E-Synthesist
--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "thenewyorkcowboy" <thenewyorkcowboy@...> wrote:
>
> That is a perfect summary, exactly what has been needed for that software grouping. That should definitely go into the
FAQ for our Yahoo Group.
>
> The only things I would add to it would be the basic difference between the "bank" download in SD and "sample" download
in Alchemy, which amounts to one 'preset' at a time, correct? I am sure alot of newbies will miss that part as they are getting
on their way. I had it confused in the beginning.
>
> Also, does SD for Emax change between the current settings along with the bank info since it can control parameters in
real time? Or does once it comes back from the Emax everything on the SD control panel are at nominal values?
>
> And finally, it should be noted or explained that the Emax II has that one-way bank up limitation of low speed (MIDI) of
compressed Emax I banks ONLY, due to the hardware/OS that was written for it, which was EMU's short-sightedness. It has
nothing to do with SD or Alchemy. Were you saying that you can circumvent the up speed negotiation with the added series
SYSEX strings?
>
> --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "esynthesist" <esynthesist@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > EMXP will support bank upload and bank download for both Emax-I and Emax-II, as soon as an USB/RS422 device is
ready and tested for these samplers. I just spent some more hours on the prototype device I have received from a fellow
member a few months ago and I think we are making progress... Still a hardware/firmware problem though...
> >
> > For Emax-II the bank up/download will be supported in low (MIDI) and high (RS422) speed; this will be based on a
whole series of SYSEX messages. Also the special "all-in-one" compressed bank upload will be supported.
> >
> > For Emax-I the bank up/download will be supported in high (RS422) speed, although it is possible that also slow (MIDI)
transfer will be supported... depends on the compatibility of SYSEX between Emax-I and Emax-II. I think this will be OK.
> >
> > Also Emulator-II will be supported, only in fast (RS422) mode though because the MIDI interface of EII does not support
SYSEX.
> >
> >
> > With respect to the SoundDesigner versions, here's a jump start of a sound editor comparison for Emax-I and Emax-II:
> >
> > SD for Emax:
> > - full support (all features) for Emax-I, including realtime control of every parameter/module
> > - support for Emax-II except for:
> > . bank download to Mac
> > . bank upload to Emax restricted to Emax-I compressed banks
> > . individual sample upload and download limited to 512K
> > - MIDI and RS422 supported
> > - no special soundcard hardware required for starting software
> > SD Universal:
> > - bank upload/download: still to be confirmed (?)...
> > - individual sample up/download support for Emax-I and Emax-II
> > - MIDI and RS422 supported
> > - SoundAccelerator hardware required for starting and using software
> > SDII version 2.5:
> > - NO bank upload/download
> > - individual sample up/download support for Emax-I and Emax-II
> > - MIDI and RS422 supported
> > - SoundAccelerator or AudioMedia II hardware required for starting and using software
> > SDII version 2.6 and higher:
> > - NO bank upload/download
> > - individual sample up/download only via generic MIDI SDS
> > - MIDI supported (no RS422)
> > - SoundAccelerator or AudioMedia II/III hardware required for starting and using software
> > Passport Alchemy v3:
> > - NO bank upload/download
> > - individual and bulk sample up/download for Emax-I and Emax-II
> > - MIDI and RS422 supported
> > - no special soundcard hardware required for starting software
> >
> > ///E-Synthesist
> > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, tu@ wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 11th, 2009 at 6:54 PM, thenewyorkcowboy <thenewyorkcowboy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Wow thanks Tristan you have been so helpful to everyone through all
> > > > the posts I've read but now I am totally confused!
> > >
> > > You are welcome! Not sure if you really want me to answer this below, but I will try.
> > >
> > > > I wish one of the columns to the left was a FAQ we could update with
> > > > questions from the group, then as things would be answered "to the
> > > > best of the groups knowledge" they could edit it like Wikipedia.
> > > > Then most of these wild goose chases would be kept at bay. Or if
> > > > Yahoo would one day use something like a .php bulletin board, we
> > > > could actually follow a thread from start to finish. I must have
> > > > missed this part of the puzzle or it was a private conversation in
> > > > someone's email. Either way I feel like I have been wasting
> > > > everyone's reading time with my ignorance on the subject.
> > >
> > > Maybe you could start by creating a FAQ.
> > >
> > > > My wish list includes Emu to have made the ESI-32 in a keyboard
> > > > model, then I think I would be happy with the status quo. Maybe I'll
> > > > gut one and transplant all its boards to my Emax II including the
> > > > display. (Of course I am kidding...) Pricewise we're probably talking
> > > > about the same thing, though.
> > >
> > > If this is really what you want then why not gut an Esi and a MIDI keyboard controller and have a custom case and
panels made. With modern CNC
> > > machines any sort of front/back panel layouts can be built and look as good as anything you can buy in a store. It
would not necessarily be cheap
> > > though :P
> > >
> > > > So as briefly as possible, unless you feel like ranting as well, what
> > > > is the scope of E-synthesist's project beyond EMXP to transfer banks
> > > > if the Emax II doesn't have the code needed to dump the bank anyway?
> > >
> > > Maybe E-synthesist could elaborate on what he has in mind... I believe the focus for the Emax II was on having high
speed sample transfer via RS422
> > > with the added possibility of program parameters etc being transferred. I don't know about sequences though as they
use sample RAM but cannot be
> > > dumped directly, only played in/out in realtime over MIDI. But the Emax II can at least receive Emax bank dumps if
that is implemented in EMXP.
> > > Bank transfer is not really such an issue for the Emax II though as they all have SCSI.
> > >
> > > > The group is called "Emax" which I took to mean Emax and Emax II. If
> > > > they both can receive "uploads" of samples in a few seconds, say 30
> > > > seconds (which I read here) for a typical (>=1MB) sample or sound
> > > > created in some work space on your computer and then you could
> > > > audition it, why don't we move forward at least from there? Right
> > > > now if I understand everything correctly, that is what old Macs can
> > > > do presently, correct?
> > >
> > > Yes, get an old Mac with SD and/or Alchemy and be happy :) Think of whatever comes in the future with EMXP as an
added bonus!
> > >
> > > > So now it can be done on a PC with the correct USB-422 adapter?
> > >
> > > With appropriate software and hardware it is of course possible. That is what is being developed.
> > >
> > > > I'd like to know which one! Was it the >$300 model?
> > > >
> > > > The last coherent thread I read was that the external clocking issue
> > > > was still a problem from Emax to the interface when dumping. But now
> > > > you are telling me that the Emax II will sync up to a known PC
> > > > adapter sending out a 500khz signal for upload???
> > >
> > > The Emax actually sends the 500kHz clock that the external RS422 device needs to synchronize with. These days this
synchronous UART technology is
> > > not widely used, apart from in some industrial applications, and is therefore not supported in modern PC hardware. In
the 80s this method entirely
> > > made sense for the Emax to use as some UARTs of the day supported it and the Mac provided this capability in its
serial port hardware.
> > >
> > > > You can see why I am confused. If this is all Mac territory I am
> > > > just getting started with my Beige G3 so I am behind. I am glad I
> > > > haven't suddenly screamed "Eureka!" with my ignorance...
> > > >
> > > > SD for Emax doesn't support Emax II.
> > > > SD 2.5?
> > > > SD 2.7?
> > > > SD 2.82 loses the support for samplers, yet it still was written for
> > > > a Nubus Mac...
> > > >
> > > > I just don't get it, I guess...
> > >
> > > People have SD and Alchemy working, maybe compile a list of working version combinations for the FAQ...
> > >
> > > > I read the post between Ted and E-synthesist about encouragement a
> > > > while back and I was touched, but now I am wondering why if not at
> > > > least a 31.250 protocol hasn't been introduced into EMXP already with
> > > > a readme on why your particular sampler is limited, etc. as the
> > > > revisions go? Standard hardware, standard protocols....etc.
> > > >
> > > > To me that would not have been a 'worthless' addition. If most of
> > > > what we are talking about are 1MB or less I don't know why 31.250 is
> > > > such a stumbling block. I was downloading most files from the
> > > > internet with that rate less than a decade ago.
> > >
> > > Not a bad idea for program parameter/sample transfer but the bank dumps only work in the 500k high speed mode.
It depends if E-synthesist wants
> > > to spend his time on it though.
> > >
> > > > Most of your normal samples with an attack rate for live performance
> > > > are going to be that short, and I think that is why Emu refused to
> > > > additional man hours simply on research and delivery on something
> > > > that was not generating sales. What was there, about 3000 units
> > > > produced over 6 years? The ESI-32 had 5000 units in 2 years....
> > > >
> > > > I think it was Jammie that suggested Sample Wrench XE in message
> > > > #4821 and it was a great informative discussion. After looking at
> > > > their site, I became slightly envious of what they were able to do
> > > > with the Peavey SX series.
> > >
> > > Sample Wrench should be able to do sample dumps to/from the Emax II via MIDI.
> > >
> > > > I also own both a Yamaha FB-01 and an EZ-EG and there are other
> > > > groups, software, websites, and You Tube videos dedicated to both, as
> > > > well as my Poly 800.
> > > >
> > > > It is like this last episode of STNG I watched, where they were on a
> > > > class M planet but only had an "open audio link" for the drama that
> > > > enfolds instead of direct video which we can do today with a stupid
> > > > webcam and what you see in every undercover op on TV. And Lt.
> > > > Natasha Yar dies...
> > > >
> > > > I mean I guess Gene Roddenberry didn't actually put into place the
> > > > same standards as we would expect today, now did he? And this is
> > > > supposedly 4 centuries from now...
> > > >
> > > > So let us put our efforts into finding a machine language programmer
> > > > that is familiar with Hex assembly code. My limited experience is on
> > > > the Sinclair (Zilog), the C64, the TI-99/4A, and the Apple II series
> > > > but all of that was simply copying code from the trade magazines
> > > > verbatim....I think we all did that nearly 30 years ago...ha ha
> > >
> > > I think you are underestimating the complexity of the task. The The Emax 32000 processor is more like a 68000 than
a Z80 or 6502. If the code was
> > > written in a high level language then it will no doubt be a hard slog to disassemble and make sense of it. Having the
source code, together with the
> > > original development environment and associated documentation would of course make the task much easier.
> > >
> > > > I remember one time when I typed {POKE OOOO} with a friend into the
> > > > Sinclair, and we laugh about that to this very day, but it doesn't
> > > > help here. I could not understand what I was typing in hex
> > > > otherwise.
> > > >
> > > > If the last 'offer' was valid, all we would have to do is deliver the
> > > > binary/hex code to the Korg DSS1 programmer and we would have another
> > > > 'new hope' just like Star Wars.
> > > >
> > > > I just find what has been done with other synths and samplers a
> > > > little more 'complete' than what we have accomplished in 6200
> > > > messages...
> > >
> > > If only everything in life was easy ;)
> > >
> > > > Forgive me, everyone, but I have a TON of SCSI equipment that I would
> > > > like to offload if anyone is interested...cables, external cases,
> > > > hard drives, and many SCSI CD-ROMs that never worked...
> > > >
> > > > If anyone would like to make a huge business from it, I would take
> > > > $200 plus shipping for like 100lbs of equipment...Paypal only and
> > > > contact me off list please. Thank you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, tu@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Both Emax I and Emax II OS do actually contain code to receive
> > > > transfer of the 8 bit,
> > > > > compressed Emax I banks from an external device using 500k baud
> > > > RS422. Only the Emax I OS
> > > > > contains code to transmit banks to an external device using 500k
> > > > baud RS422. There are reasons
> > > > > given in the Emu documentation as to why this was not implemented
> > > > on the Emax II. The Emax II
> > > > > is not able to either transmit or receive 16 bit banks via RS422.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. My estimation is that 16 bit bank transfer using a protocol
> > > > similar the 8 bit bank transfer would
> > > > > take approximately half the time you suggest and most banks are not
> > > > even 8MB in size! Assuming
> > > > > an 8MB bank: 8MB / (500k / 11) = 184 seconds ~ 3 minutes. Of
> > > > course there is some protocol
> > > > > overhead as well as transfer of the parameter RAM and there may
> > > > well be other limitations on the
> > > > > transfer speed. But this does not help much as there is no such
> > > > protocol implemented in the Emax
> > > > > II...
> > > > >
> > > > > /Tristan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Dec 11th, 2009 at 8:20 AM, thenewyorkcowboy
> > > > <thenewyorkcowboy@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I did not mean that Korg themselves did it, I was making a
> > > > reference
> > > > > > to Rob at emulator archive trying futilely to get the code we
> > > > are
> > > > > > looking for from Emu. In the case of the DSS1 you have someone
> > > > who
> > > > > > was basically a subcontractor for Korg and the OS, so a huge
> > > > > > advantage there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After reading a nearly a hundred posts on RS-422, 500khz, and
> > > > 'source
> > > > > > code', I see now though that:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Both Emax OS do not contain a sysex command for
> > > > sending/recieving
> > > > > > banks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. 500k speed is still 7 minutes to transfer 8MB.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. E-synthesist is trying to cover all the Emu models!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Emu would just reach deep in their hearts and provide the
> > > > source
> > > > > > code so much of this could be resolved by a new OS rewrite, of
> > > > > > course. We could then implement SMDI, add the sysex commands
> > > > > > missing, and include direct USB support...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > korg had nothing to do with it it was done by people
> > > > passionate
> > > > > > about there equipment we were lucky to get a person who used to
> > > > work
> > > > > > for the memory company that did the memory and os for the dss1
> > > > > > upgrade he still uses the dss1 and he did all the new code
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > if we had the code for the emaxes i would be sure that he could
> > > > add
> > > > > > instructions to it
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: thenewyorkcowboy
> > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:33 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [emax] Re: Emax II with MAC Se
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another Korg model that has been completely revamped is the
> > > > Poly
> > > > > > 800 series (EX, MKI, & MKII) That one came out in 1986. The two
> > > > kits
> > > > > > available for it cost more than what you'd pay for the synth
> > > > second
> > > > > > hand ($135 delivered) but it increases the functionality of the
> > > > board
> > > > > > so much it is definitely worth it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 64 banks have become 256 banks (4 sets of 64)
> > > > > > > Bi directional Sysex dumps on what used to be just cassette
> > > > tape
> > > > > > with a modem handshake.
> > > > > > > 128 new Global instructions
> > > > > > > 2 additional LFO's added which can stack or modulate the
> > > > original
> > > > > > 2 LFO's
> > > > > > > And a replaced flash prom that can software update over midi
> > > > for
> > > > > > all this, and doesn't even need a CR2032 battery anymore, among
> > > > many
> > > > > > other improvements.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now, Korg may or may not have helped out considerably with
> > > > these
> > > > > > two projects, but whatever the reason is, we will certainly find
> > > > > > something someday to be able to tap into the Emax series on that
> > > > kind
> > > > > > of level.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > EMXP is a wonderful piece of software that by itself is equal
> > > > to
> > > > > > the work done on these two Korg models since it covers so many
> > > > > > formats and samplers, we just need to "complete" the puzzle as
> > > > > > E-synthesist has said by completing that "one step" to find the
> > > > > > proper interface. I just personally think that in the end, any
> > > > type
> > > > > > of serial communication is still going to be 'too slow' even if
> > > > > > ported over USB if we can't get the Emax to receive at 500kbaud
> > > > or
> > > > > > higher.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What about buying something off the shelf and simply
> > > > replacing
> > > > > > the crystal in the card and in the Emax?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > http://www.motherboardpoint.com/500k-baud-rate-setup-t88094.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > why bother when you can just use the scsi
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > what would be better would be a os instruction for scmidi
> > > > > > transfers of banks and samples it would be much faster and would
> > > > not
> > > > > > need any hardware but would require the os code you could add
> > > > usb
> > > > > > support which have been done for the 68000 processor but would
> > > > need
> > > > > > the os code of the sampler to impliment it
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > its been done with the korg dss1 including 16mb sample
> > > > memory
> > > > > > and 8mb patch memory and the use of floppy usb flash drives where
> > > > you
> > > > > > can use usb pens and sdram and compactflash and xd memory card
> > > > duo
> > > > > > you can use upto 68 differnt types of memory with the drive and
> > > > being
> > > > > > usb it comes up as 4 drives usb2 speed
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > and it has wave support now so you can put your pen into
> > > > the
> > > > > > comp drop and drag folders of multisamples and then access them
> > > > from
> > > > > > the sampler
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: thenewyorkcowboy
> > > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 3:22 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [emax] Re: Emax II with MAC Se
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hey in my most recent web surfing I came across a modern
> > > > piece
> > > > > > of protocol called iSCSI.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISCSI
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Which can theoretically transfer instructions and data at
> > > > the
> > > > > > bandwidth of your Ethernet connection, 10/100/1000...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Since the SCSI protocol is probably easier to decipher
> > > > than
> > > > > > RS-422 handshaking and such, would it be "easier" to make a
> > > > device
> > > > > > that could latch into the SCSI chip on the Emax along with the
> > > > output
> > > > > > and connect to a modern network through something like a PIC
> > > > micro
> > > > > > controller with some software?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I know we were going for an external device that simply
> > > > > > connects to the computer interface port on the Emax, but upon
> > > > further
> > > > > > reading here, even at 500kbaud we are talking about a few minutes
> > > > per
> > > > > > transfer.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If we could design a PIC micro controller that could mount
> > > > > > inside the Emax with a "small hole" to accomodate the RJ-45 jack
> > > > on
> > > > > > the back and a hardware hack, we could use the SCSI load/save as
> > > > an
> > > > > > external device to connect into a normal network at a minimum of
> > > > > > 10mbs.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Once we could do that, almost any waveform editor would
> > > > work to
> > > > > > transfer back and forth because alot of time would be saved
> > > > working
> > > > > > at say 5mbs like the Emax chip can supply compared to 500kbaud
> > > > (one
> > > > > > way)....
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any thoughts?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "esynthesist" <esynthesist@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what you are aiming to, based on all these
> > > > > > messages and information which you have been reading :-)
> > > > > > > > > - do you want to get Alchemy, SD, or any other vintage
> > > > > > software running with Emax/Emax-II connectivity on higher Mac
> > > > > > versions ?
> > > > > > > > > - do you want to find out how to come up with a device
> > > > > > supporting externally clocked RS422 for use with any modern
> > > > computer
> > > > > > equipment ?
> > > > > > > > > - do you just basically want to get Alchemy, SD of any
> > > > other
> > > > > > software running with Emax/Emax-II connectivity on a vintage Mac
> > > > > > (Classic, SE, ...) ?
> > > > > > > > > - do you want to make new software for communication
> > > > between
> > > > > > computer and Emax/Emax-II ?
> > > > > > > > > - ...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > With respect to your questions, I can only answer the
> > > > first
> > > > > > two of them:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1/ Yes, I have a minidin8 <--> DB9 cable perfectly
> > > > working
> > > > > > between my Mac and my Emax/Emax-II. The cable specs are available
> > > > on
> > > > > > emulatorarchive:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > http://www.emulatorarchive.com/Archives/Samplers/EmaxOverview/EmaxEditors/emaxeditors.htm
> > > > > l
> > > > > > > > > This obviously is the RS422 variant.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 2/ Alchemy would be a better starting point in terms of
> > > > > > native Emax-II support but ONLY for sample transfer
> > > > communication. If
> > > > > > all possible RS422 commands should be supported, then
> > > > SoundDesigner
> > > > > > for Emax is a better choice.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Note that we are "only" one step away from new software
> > > > > > running on Windows XP/Vista (or Mac OS X or higher) which can
> > > > > > communicate with Emu samplers. The only missing part is an
> > > > externally
> > > > > > clockable RS422 port which can be put in between the Emax and
> > > > the
> > > > > > computer :-)
> > > > > > > > > I have already a working prototype communication software
> > > > on
> > > > > > my PC.
> > > > > > > > > A few days ago someone mailed me with the message that
> > > > the
> > > > > > KeySpan XG 28 (USB/RS422) device for Mac probably supports
> > > > external
> > > > > > clocking. But I don't know if this is true because when I was
> > > > looking
> > > > > > to its specs a year ago, I read somewhere that synchronous
> > > > > > communication is NOT supported by that adapter. Also, this device
> > > > -
> > > > > > which is already obsolete - was only released with Mac drivers,
> > > > not
> > > > > > Windows drivers.
> > > > > > > > > Of course it is not true to say that these externally
> > > > > > clockable RS422 ports for modern computers don't exist - in
> > > > > > industrial apps they are being used. But their price is way too
> > > > high
> > > > > > for us (500 USD...)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I also have a prototype device here from a fellow member,
> > > > but
> > > > > > we are still trying to get it working :-) Maybe I will connect
> > > > my
> > > > > > Oscilloscope to that device this weekend, it's been a while...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > //E-Synthesist
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "thenewyorkcowboy"
> > > > > > <thenewyorkcowboy@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This looks like a good time to interject a few
> > > > > > questions...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Here is the page I started with:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/4847
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So I did my own research and found this page:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://support.apple.com/kb/SP130
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://lowendmac.com/tech/serial.shtml
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Which I have...so I am convinced that the 8 pin mini
> > > > din
> > > > > > can handle both RS422 and RS232 depending on the CABLE!!!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What they are talking about as the "obsolete" port is
> > > > what
> > > > > > is considered a GeoPort, it only has 4 pins in the mini-Din. So
> > > > > > anyone who has 8 pin serial ports on any Mac can use either
> > > > Sound
> > > > > > Forge or Alchemy...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It was said earlier in the posts that neither software
> > > > can
> > > > > > do entire bank transfers, but I am not at that point yet...What
> > > > I
> > > > > > need is someone to clarify these last questions I have before I
> > > > am
> > > > > > going to be able to contribute something to the conversation...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On ANY Mac with the two "422 serial" ports (8 pin Mini
> > > > > > Dins) it certainly does seem true that they will accept up to a
> > > > 2Mb
> > > > > > external clock.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Did we get this pinout solved from post? I only have:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.interfacebus.com/Apple_MiniDIN_PinOut.html
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://saragossa.net/intfcing.html (scroll to far
> > > > bottom)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > to determine how to "make" a cable to connect to the
> > > > Emax
> > > > > > II
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and these posts to leave me wondering:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/5241
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/4789
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (and the following conversation that ensues)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and finally...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/4838
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, I have to ask:::
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Has anyone actually built a Mini Din-8 cable to the
> > > > > > EmaxII serial port or a DB-9 serial, and got it to work with
> > > > Alchemy?
> > > > > > What are the final pinouts?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. I know what our Files section holds in the way of
> > > > > > Alchemy and Sound Designer...which is the 'best' version that we
> > > > > > should be focusing on as a prototype?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3. The last question is a little more specific, if
> > > > anyone
> > > > > > has a later MAC OS working with any of the software versions
> > > > metioned
> > > > > > in #2 above, what is it? Will MAC OS 9.2.2 work with Alchemy 2.5
> > > > > > through a soldered MiniDin-8 to DB-9 cable to the EmaxII? Will
> > > > OSX
> > > > > > work in classic mode?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > These are the questions I need answered to port some
> > > > more
> > > > > > information into the loop.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kirk
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, tu@ wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > According to the sysex spec, the Emax II can receive
> > > > Emax
> > > > > > I compressed bank transfers. It needs
> > > > > > > > > > > to for compatibility with the RS422 CDROM drive! But
> > > > it
> > > > > > does not support transmitting compressed
> > > > > > > > > > > banks or any transfer of 16 bit banks.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sample transfer using high or low speed MMA sample
> > > > > > dumping is also limited to maximum sample
> > > > > > > > > > > size of 2M words (4MB in 16 bit samples). So an Emax
> > > > II
> > > > > > bank containing a sample longer than this
> > > > > > > > > > > will not be possible to transfer over RS422 or MIDI.
> > > > This
> > > > > > would not be a problem for most sample
> > > > > > > > > > > banks but does prevent a universal method of bank
> > > > > > transfer between the Emax II and a computer.
> > > > > > > > > > > The solution is of course to save such banks to disk
> > > > and
> > > > > > then load from there.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > /Tristan
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5th, 2009 at 8:33 AM, esynthesist
> > > > > > <esynthesist@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alchemy doesn't support bank transfers with any
> > > > > > sampler.
> > > > > > > > > > > > It only supports sample transfers, including an
> > > > > > interesting "bulk"
> > > > > > > > > > > > mode to transfer all samples at once. But that's
> > > > still
> > > > > > without any of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the preset and voice parameters...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In fact no software supports bank transfers with
> > > > the
> > > > > > Emax-II.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I will add it to EMXP as soon as we get the RS422
> > > > > > device for PC up
> > > > > > > > > > > > and running...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > ///E-Synthesist
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jrb1864@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Does Alchemy support bank transfers to and from
> > > > Emax
> > > > > > 2? How in
> > > > > > > > > > > > depth are the sample edit features?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "Rish" <rish@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey If anyone needs the Alchemy ver 3.0 full
> > > > manual
> > > > > > I have 5 of
> > > > > > > > > > > > them available.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard at www.Route66studios.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: sanctifiedone@
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:56 AM
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [emax] Emax II with MAC Se
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love posts like this one from Ted. And while
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > at it, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > also want to express my appreciation for group
> > > > members
> > > > > > like Dave
> > > > > > > > > > > > willing to help me untangle my EMAX II problems.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Ted Summers" <djtbs1@>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:58:49 AM
> > > > GMT
> > > > > > -05:00
> > > > > > > > > > > > US/Canada Eastern
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [emax] Emax II with MAC Se
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alchemy software v3.0 sit is in the groups
> > > > files
> > > > > > section, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > it works......
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:57 AM, John
> > > > <jrb1864@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have an Emax 2 with 2mb ram, jazz drives,
> > > > > > floppies, cables
> > > > > > > > > > > > and connector
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cable to the MAC.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a dream...a dream of running my Emax 2
> > > > with
> > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > > > designer or
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alchemy. Alas no luck, I only have Sound
> > > > Designer
> > > > > > Universal
> > > > > > > > > > > > and it's not
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > working with the EMAX 2.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have Sound Designer Universal in the box,
> > > > > > original disks
> > > > > > > > > > > > etc, a MAC SE,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > systems 6, and 7 but unable to find the
> > > > Alchemy
> > > > > > software or
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sound Designer
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that works with Emax 2.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I can't get it all to work I will give up
> > > > on
> > > > > > this dream
> > > > > > > > > > > > and sell the lot
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to someone, preferably on the forum, with
> > > > love,
> > > > > > patience, and
> > > > > > > > > > > > abilities to
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > make this system work and send me photos!
> > > > LOL!
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you have the software I need or time and
> > > > > > willingness to
> > > > > > > > > > > > help me through
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it I would appreciate otherwise I'm selling
> > > > it
> > > > > > all for $350
> > > > > > > > > > > > plus shipping
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > costs.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks all! Maybe one day.....
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > > removed]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Emax and Emax II User's Group Website
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.silveriafamily.comYahoo! Groups
> > > > Links
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > > removed]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > > > removed]
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > > > > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.100/2554 -
> > > > Release
> > > > > > Date: 12/09/09 07:32:00
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > > > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.101/2555 - Release
> > > > > > Date: 12/09/09 19:41:00
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Reply to sender | Reply to group
Messages in this topic (50)
Recent Activity:
New Members 3
New Files 1
Visit Your Group Start a New Topic
Emax and Emax II User's Group Website
http://www.silveriafamily.com
MARKETPLACE
Going Green: Your Yahoo! Groups resource for green living
Parenting Zone: Your community resource for family and home
Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest \ufffd Unsubscribe \ufffd Terms of Use