Wow thanks Tristan you have been so helpful to everyone through all the posts I've read but now I am totally confused!
I wish one of the columns to the left was a FAQ we could update with questions from the group, then as things would be answered "to the best of the groups knowledge" they could edit it like Wikipedia. Then most of these wild goose chases would be kept at bay. Or if Yahoo would one day use something like a .php bulletin board, we could actually follow a thread from start to finish. I must have missed this part of the puzzle or it was a private conversation in someone's email. Either way I feel like I have been wasting everyone's reading time with my ignorance on the subject.
My wish list includes Emu to have made the ESI-32 in a keyboard model, then I think I would be happy with the status quo. Maybe I'll gut one and transplant all its boards to my Emax II including the display. (Of course I am kidding...) Pricewise we're probably talking about the same thing, though.
So as briefly as possible, unless you feel like ranting as well, what is the scope of E-synthesist's project beyond EMXP to transfer banks if the Emax II doesn't have the code needed to dump the bank anyway?
The group is called "Emax" which I took to mean Emax and Emax II. If they both can receive "uploads" of samples in a few seconds, say 30 seconds (which I read here) for a typical (>=1MB) sample or sound created in some work space on your computer and then you could audition it, why don't we move forward at least from there? Right now if I understand everything correctly, that is what old Macs can do presently, correct?
So now it can be done on a PC with the correct USB-422 adapter?
I'd like to know which one! Was it the >$300 model?
The last coherent thread I read was that the external clocking issue was still a problem from Emax to the interface when dumping. But now you are telling me that the Emax II will sync up to a known PC adapter sending out a 500khz signal for upload???
You can see why I am confused. If this is all Mac territory I am just getting started with my Beige G3 so I am behind. I am glad I haven't suddenly screamed "Eureka!" with my ignorance...
SD for Emax doesn't support Emax II.
SD 2.5?
SD 2.7?
SD 2.82 loses the support for samplers, yet it still was written for a Nubus Mac...
I just don't get it, I guess...
I read the post between Ted and E-synthesist about encouragement a while back and I was touched, but now I am wondering why if not at least a 31.250 protocol hasn't been introduced into EMXP already with a readme on why your particular sampler is limited, etc. as the revisions go? Standard hardware, standard protocols....etc.
To me that would not have been a 'worthless' addition. If most of what we are talking about are 1MB or less I don't know why 31.250 is such a stumbling block. I was downloading most files from the internet with that rate less than a decade ago.
Most of your normal samples with an attack rate for live performance are going to be that short, and I think that is why Emu refused to additional man hours simply on research and delivery on something that was not generating sales. What was there, about 3000 units produced over 6 years? The ESI-32 had 5000 units in 2 years....
I think it was Jammie that suggested Sample Wrench XE in message #4821 and it was a great informative discussion. After looking at their site, I became slightly envious of what they were able to do with the Peavey SX series.
I also own both a Yamaha FB-01 and an EZ-EG and there are other groups, software, websites, and You Tube videos dedicated to both, as well as my Poly 800.
It is like this last episode of STNG I watched, where they were on a class M planet but only had an "open audio link" for the drama that enfolds instead of direct video which we can do today with a stupid webcam and what you see in every undercover op on TV. And Lt. Natasha Yar dies...
I mean I guess Gene Roddenberry didn't actually put into place the same standards as we would expect today, now did he? And this is supposedly 4 centuries from now...
So let us put our efforts into finding a machine language programmer that is familiar with Hex assembly code. My limited experience is on the Sinclair (Zilog), the C64, the TI-99/4A, and the Apple II series but all of that was simply copying code from the trade magazines verbatim....I think we all did that nearly 30 years ago...ha ha
I remember one time when I typed {POKE OOOO} with a friend into the Sinclair, and we laugh about that to this very day, but it doesn't help here. I could not understand what I was typing in hex otherwise.
If the last 'offer' was valid, all we would have to do is deliver the binary/hex code to the Korg DSS1 programmer and we would have another 'new hope' just like Star Wars.
I just find what has been done with other synths and samplers a little more 'complete' than what we have accomplished in 6200 messages...
Forgive me, everyone, but I have a TON of SCSI equipment that I would like to offload if anyone is interested...cables, external cases, hard drives, and many SCSI CD-ROMs that never worked...
If anyone would like to make a huge business from it, I would take $200 plus shipping for like 100lbs of equipment...Paypal only and contact me off list please. Thank you.
--- In emax@yahoogroups.com, tu@... wrote:
>
> 1. Both Emax I and Emax II OS do actually contain code to receive transfer of the 8 bit,
> compressed Emax I banks from an external device using 500k baud RS422. Only the Emax I OS
> contains code to transmit banks to an external device using 500k baud RS422. There are reasons
> given in the Emu documentation as to why this was not implemented on the Emax II. The Emax II
> is not able to either transmit or receive 16 bit banks via RS422.
>
> 2. My estimation is that 16 bit bank transfer using a protocol similar the 8 bit bank transfer would
> take approximately half the time you suggest and most banks are not even 8MB in size! Assuming
> an 8MB bank: 8MB / (500k / 11) = 184 seconds ~ 3 minutes. Of course there is some protocol
> overhead as well as transfer of the parameter RAM and there may well be other limitations on the
> transfer speed. But this does not help much as there is no such protocol implemented in the Emax
> II...
>
> /Tristan
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 11th, 2009 at 8:20 AM, thenewyorkcowboy <thenewyorkcowboy@...> wrote:
>
> > I did not mean that Korg themselves did it, I was making a reference
> > to Rob at emulator archive trying futilely to get the code we are
> > looking for from Emu. In the case of the DSS1 you have someone who
> > was basically a subcontractor for Korg and the OS, so a huge
> > advantage there.
> >
> > After reading a nearly a hundred posts on RS-422, 500khz, and 'source
> > code', I see now though that:
> >
> > 1. Both Emax OS do not contain a sysex command for sending/recieving
> > banks.
> >
> > 2. 500k speed is still 7 minutes to transfer 8MB.
> >
> > 3. E-synthesist is trying to cover all the Emu models!!!!
> >
> > If Emu would just reach deep in their hearts and provide the source
> > code so much of this could be resolved by a new OS rewrite, of
> > course. We could then implement SMDI, add the sysex commands
> > missing, and include direct USB support...
> >
> > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@> wrote:
> > >
> > > korg had nothing to do with it it was done by people passionate
> > about there equipment we were lucky to get a person who used to work
> > for the memory company that did the memory and os for the dss1
> > upgrade he still uses the dss1 and he did all the new code
> > >
> > > if we had the code for the emaxes i would be sure that he could add
> > instructions to it
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: thenewyorkcowboy
> > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 4:33 PM
> > > Subject: [emax] Re: Emax II with MAC Se
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Another Korg model that has been completely revamped is the Poly
> > 800 series (EX, MKI, & MKII) That one came out in 1986. The two kits
> > available for it cost more than what you'd pay for the synth second
> > hand ($135 delivered) but it increases the functionality of the board
> > so much it is definitely worth it.
> > >
> > > 64 banks have become 256 banks (4 sets of 64)
> > > Bi directional Sysex dumps on what used to be just cassette tape
> > with a modem handshake.
> > > 128 new Global instructions
> > > 2 additional LFO's added which can stack or modulate the original
> > 2 LFO's
> > > And a replaced flash prom that can software update over midi for
> > all this, and doesn't even need a CR2032 battery anymore, among many
> > other improvements.
> > >
> > > http://patrioticduo.tripod.com/hawk800/
> > >
> > > Now, Korg may or may not have helped out considerably with these
> > two projects, but whatever the reason is, we will certainly find
> > something someday to be able to tap into the Emax series on that kind
> > of level.
> > >
> > > EMXP is a wonderful piece of software that by itself is equal to
> > the work done on these two Korg models since it covers so many
> > formats and samplers, we just need to "complete" the puzzle as
> > E-synthesist has said by completing that "one step" to find the
> > proper interface. I just personally think that in the end, any type
> > of serial communication is still going to be 'too slow' even if
> > ported over USB if we can't get the Emax to receive at 500kbaud or
> > higher.
> > >
> > > What about buying something off the shelf and simply replacing
> > the crystal in the card and in the Emax?
> > >
> > > http://www.motherboardpoint.com/500k-baud-rate-setup-t88094.html
> > >
> > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "jammie" <jammie.emma@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > why bother when you can just use the scsi
> > > >
> > > > what would be better would be a os instruction for scmidi
> > transfers of banks and samples it would be much faster and would not
> > need any hardware but would require the os code you could add usb
> > support which have been done for the 68000 processor but would need
> > the os code of the sampler to impliment it
> > > >
> > > > its been done with the korg dss1 including 16mb sample memory
> > and 8mb patch memory and the use of floppy usb flash drives where you
> > can use usb pens and sdram and compactflash and xd memory card duo
> > you can use upto 68 differnt types of memory with the drive and being
> > usb it comes up as 4 drives usb2 speed
> > > >
> > > > and it has wave support now so you can put your pen into the
> > comp drop and drag folders of multisamples and then access them from
> > the sampler
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: thenewyorkcowboy
> > > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 3:22 AM
> > > > Subject: [emax] Re: Emax II with MAC Se
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hey in my most recent web surfing I came across a modern piece
> > of protocol called iSCSI.
> > > >
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISCSI
> > > >
> > > > Which can theoretically transfer instructions and data at the
> > bandwidth of your Ethernet connection, 10/100/1000...
> > > >
> > > > Since the SCSI protocol is probably easier to decipher than
> > RS-422 handshaking and such, would it be "easier" to make a device
> > that could latch into the SCSI chip on the Emax along with the output
> > and connect to a modern network through something like a PIC micro
> > controller with some software?
> > > >
> > > > I know we were going for an external device that simply
> > connects to the computer interface port on the Emax, but upon further
> > reading here, even at 500kbaud we are talking about a few minutes per
> > transfer.
> > > >
> > > > If we could design a PIC micro controller that could mount
> > inside the Emax with a "small hole" to accomodate the RJ-45 jack on
> > the back and a hardware hack, we could use the SCSI load/save as an
> > external device to connect into a normal network at a minimum of
> > 10mbs.
> > > >
> > > > Once we could do that, almost any waveform editor would work to
> > transfer back and forth because alot of time would be saved working
> > at say 5mbs like the Emax chip can supply compared to 500kbaud (one
> > way)....
> > > >
> > > > Any thoughts?
> > > >
> > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "esynthesist" <esynthesist@>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure what you are aiming to, based on all these
> > messages and information which you have been reading :-)
> > > > > - do you want to get Alchemy, SD, or any other vintage
> > software running with Emax/Emax-II connectivity on higher Mac
> > versions ?
> > > > > - do you want to find out how to come up with a device
> > supporting externally clocked RS422 for use with any modern computer
> > equipment ?
> > > > > - do you just basically want to get Alchemy, SD of any other
> > software running with Emax/Emax-II connectivity on a vintage Mac
> > (Classic, SE, ...) ?
> > > > > - do you want to make new software for communication between
> > computer and Emax/Emax-II ?
> > > > > - ...
> > > > >
> > > > > With respect to your questions, I can only answer the first
> > two of them:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1/ Yes, I have a minidin8 <--> DB9 cable perfectly working
> > between my Mac and my Emax/Emax-II. The cable specs are available on
> > emulatorarchive:
> > > > >
> >
> http://www.emulatorarchive.com/Archives/Samplers/EmaxOverview/EmaxEditors/emaxeditors.htm
> l
> > > > > This obviously is the RS422 variant.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2/ Alchemy would be a better starting point in terms of
> > native Emax-II support but ONLY for sample transfer communication. If
> > all possible RS422 commands should be supported, then SoundDesigner
> > for Emax is a better choice.
> > > > >
> > > > > Note that we are "only" one step away from new software
> > running on Windows XP/Vista (or Mac OS X or higher) which can
> > communicate with Emu samplers. The only missing part is an externally
> > clockable RS422 port which can be put in between the Emax and the
> > computer :-)
> > > > > I have already a working prototype communication software on
> > my PC.
> > > > > A few days ago someone mailed me with the message that the
> > KeySpan XG 28 (USB/RS422) device for Mac probably supports external
> > clocking. But I don't know if this is true because when I was looking
> > to its specs a year ago, I read somewhere that synchronous
> > communication is NOT supported by that adapter. Also, this device -
> > which is already obsolete - was only released with Mac drivers, not
> > Windows drivers.
> > > > > Of course it is not true to say that these externally
> > clockable RS422 ports for modern computers don't exist - in
> > industrial apps they are being used. But their price is way too high
> > for us (500 USD...)
> > > > >
> > > > > I also have a prototype device here from a fellow member, but
> > we are still trying to get it working :-) Maybe I will connect my
> > Oscilloscope to that device this weekend, it's been a while...
> > > > >
> > > > > //E-Synthesist
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "thenewyorkcowboy"
> > <thenewyorkcowboy@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This looks like a good time to interject a few
> > questions...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here is the page I started with:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/4847
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So I did my own research and found this page:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://support.apple.com/kb/SP130
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://lowendmac.com/tech/serial.shtml
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Which I have...so I am convinced that the 8 pin mini din
> > can handle both RS422 and RS232 depending on the CABLE!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What they are talking about as the "obsolete" port is what
> > is considered a GeoPort, it only has 4 pins in the mini-Din. So
> > anyone who has 8 pin serial ports on any Mac can use either Sound
> > Forge or Alchemy...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It was said earlier in the posts that neither software can
> > do entire bank transfers, but I am not at that point yet...What I
> > need is someone to clarify these last questions I have before I am
> > going to be able to contribute something to the conversation...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On ANY Mac with the two "422 serial" ports (8 pin Mini
> > Dins) it certainly does seem true that they will accept up to a 2Mb
> > external clock.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did we get this pinout solved from post? I only have:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.interfacebus.com/Apple_MiniDIN_PinOut.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://saragossa.net/intfcing.html (scroll to far bottom)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > to determine how to "make" a cable to connect to the Emax
> > II
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and these posts to leave me wondering:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/5241
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/4789
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (and the following conversation that ensues)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and finally...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/emax/message/4838
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, I have to ask:::
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Has anyone actually built a Mini Din-8 cable to the
> > EmaxII serial port or a DB-9 serial, and got it to work with Alchemy?
> > What are the final pinouts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. I know what our Files section holds in the way of
> > Alchemy and Sound Designer...which is the 'best' version that we
> > should be focusing on as a prototype?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. The last question is a little more specific, if anyone
> > has a later MAC OS working with any of the software versions metioned
> > in #2 above, what is it? Will MAC OS 9.2.2 work with Alchemy 2.5
> > through a soldered MiniDin-8 to DB-9 cable to the EmaxII? Will OSX
> > work in classic mode?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > These are the questions I need answered to port some more
> > information into the loop.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kirk
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, tu@ wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > According to the sysex spec, the Emax II can receive Emax
> > I compressed bank transfers. It needs
> > > > > > > to for compatibility with the RS422 CDROM drive! But it
> > does not support transmitting compressed
> > > > > > > banks or any transfer of 16 bit banks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sample transfer using high or low speed MMA sample
> > dumping is also limited to maximum sample
> > > > > > > size of 2M words (4MB in 16 bit samples). So an Emax II
> > bank containing a sample longer than this
> > > > > > > will not be possible to transfer over RS422 or MIDI. This
> > would not be a problem for most sample
> > > > > > > banks but does prevent a universal method of bank
> > transfer between the Emax II and a computer.
> > > > > > > The solution is of course to save such banks to disk and
> > then load from there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > /Tristan
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 5th, 2009 at 8:33 AM, esynthesist
> > <esynthesist@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Alchemy doesn't support bank transfers with any
> > sampler.
> > > > > > > > It only supports sample transfers, including an
> > interesting "bulk"
> > > > > > > > mode to transfer all samples at once. But that's still
> > without any of
> > > > > > > > the preset and voice parameters...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In fact no software supports bank transfers with the
> > Emax-II.
> > > > > > > > I will add it to EMXP as soon as we get the RS422
> > device for PC up
> > > > > > > > and running...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ///E-Synthesist
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jrb1864@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Does Alchemy support bank transfers to and from Emax
> > 2? How in
> > > > > > > > depth are the sample edit features?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In emax@yahoogroups.com, "Rish" <rish@> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hey If anyone needs the Alchemy ver 3.0 full manual
> > I have 5 of
> > > > > > > > them available.
> > > > > > > > > > Richard at www.Route66studios.com
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: sanctifiedone@
> > > > > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 11:56 AM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [emax] Emax II with MAC Se
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I love posts like this one from Ted. And while I'm
> > at it, I
> > > > > > > > also want to express my appreciation for group members
> > like Dave
> > > > > > > > willing to help me untangle my EMAX II problems.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > > > From: "Ted Summers" <djtbs1@>
> > > > > > > > > > To: emax@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2009 11:58:49 AM GMT
> > -05:00
> > > > > > > > US/Canada Eastern
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [emax] Emax II with MAC Se
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Alchemy software v3.0 sit is in the groups files
> > section, and
> > > > > > > > it works......
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Ted
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:57 AM, John <jrb1864@>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I have an Emax 2 with 2mb ram, jazz drives,
> > floppies, cables
> > > > > > > > and connector
> > > > > > > > > > > cable to the MAC.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I had a dream...a dream of running my Emax 2 with
> > sound
> > > > > > > > designer or
> > > > > > > > > > > Alchemy. Alas no luck, I only have Sound Designer
> > Universal
> > > > > > > > and it's not
> > > > > > > > > > > working with the EMAX 2.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I have Sound Designer Universal in the box,
> > original disks
> > > > > > > > etc, a MAC SE,
> > > > > > > > > > > systems 6, and 7 but unable to find the Alchemy
> > software or
> > > > > > > > Sound Designer
> > > > > > > > > > > that works with Emax 2.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If I can't get it all to work I will give up on
> > this dream
> > > > > > > > and sell the lot
> > > > > > > > > > > to someone, preferably on the forum, with love,
> > patience, and
> > > > > > > > abilities to
> > > > > > > > > > > make this system work and send me photos! LOL!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you have the software I need or time and
> > willingness to
> > > > > > > > help me through
> > > > > > > > > > > it I would appreciate otherwise I'm selling it
> > all for $350
> > > > > > > > plus shipping
> > > > > > > > > > > costs.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks all! Maybe one day.....
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Emax and Emax II User's Group Website
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://www.silveriafamily.comYahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.100/2554 - Release
> > Date: 12/09/09 07:32:00
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.101/2555 - Release
> > Date: 12/09/09 19:41:00
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>Message
Re: Emax II with MAC Se (Warning: Rant!)
2009-12-11 by thenewyorkcowboy