EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hi everybody, 

Well I hesitated to come here for help with this subject, but I went through 
about 4 days of an intensive search to find some solution to this problem.  I 
may add .. I'm totally frustrated with this.

I'm running Logic 6.3.3 on MAC/G4 (OSX) and only recently I started to move 
all my AKAI samples to the EXS24.

Problem: I can't  get the program change working at all in the EXS24.

Up to now I was changing programs of my hardware samplers from the Logic 
via "hyper edit" or "event list" and things worked flawlessly. 

Dave from the Emagic support directed me to the "options>preferences" in the 
EXS24, but there I found some totally weird pull-items like "previous 
instrument" and "next instrument", that doesn't make any sense to me.  I tried 
to experiment with it anyway for the last two days without any success.  

I can't get a full reference manual for Logic6 - MAC OSX from anywhere.  
Emagic support told me that the electronic "HELP" is pretty much it.  But this 
HELP is no help at all.  No reference to how to change programs in the 
EXS24.

Please can anybody help me?

Thanks.  

Josef.

On a fine day, 07-03-2004, kecinzer wrote:

>Problem: I can't  get the program change working at all in the EXS24.

This has been dealt with just a few days ago...  Midi program changes 
have a range from 0-127.  I.e. they can deal with 128 programs. 
Sampler directories easily contain 10,000 different patches.  How 
would you go about using program changes to switch between those?

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

At 06:16 PM 3/7/04 +0100, you wrote:
>On a fine day, 07-03-2004, kecinzer wrote:
>
> >Problem: I can't  get the program change working at all in the EXS24.
>
>This has been dealt with just a few days ago...  Midi program changes
>have a range from 0-127.  I.e. they can deal with 128 programs.
>Sampler directories easily contain 10,000 different patches.  How
>would you go about using program changes to switch between those?

It would be nice (forgive my naivete here) if there was a feature where 
there was a mapping thing, where you could have a list of 128 .exs files 
that would respond to Program Changes, according to number. Stored in a 
Logic Song, where each song would have a different map.

But maybe there is another mode of operating EXS that does this 
differently, and thus solves the core problem which is how to use one 
instance of EXS to play different sounds over a whole song without manually 
changing the selected program.

Garth Hjelte
Sampler User

on one very special day, Garth Hjelte at garth@... wrote:

> But maybe there is another mode of operating EXS that does this
> differently, and thus solves the core problem which is how to use one
> instance of EXS to play different sounds over a whole song without manually
> changing the selected program.

I haven't tried this myself, but it _should_ work:

What if you assign a "midi remote" key command equivalent for the key
commands of either select next/previous instrument. Then assembled the
various instruments you want to use on a per song basis in unique sampler
instruments folders stored in the same folder as each song. Then programmed
up those midi events on the EXS track. Would it change instruments for you
while playing?

-- 
Eli Krantzberg
Nightshift Orchestra / Almat Productions
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com

I've just gone throught the same thing.   The only definitive answer I got 
was from a person a Vienna Symphonic Library.   The bottom line is: 1) Logic 
doesn't allow you to load multiple EXS24 per track; and/or, 2) The EXS24 doesn't 
allow loading of multiple instruments to facilitate spontaneous program 
changes during playback.   In my estimation, this makes the EXS24 almost unuseable, 
or at least extremely cumbersome to use.   Automating spontaneous program 
changes for playback is part of the essence of what professional sequencing is all 
about.   Anything less is kid stuff.   I wrote to Emagic to state my 
complaint and make my suggestions for future upgrades of EXS24.   I encourage every 
other EXS24 user to likewise express their complaints and suggestions to Emagic 
in this area.

Mike Policastro
ArtsGuild, Inc.
Franklin Park, NJ
732-951-9595

Problem: I can't get the program change working at all in the EXS24.

"This has been dealt with just a few days ago... Midi program changes
have a range from 0-127. I.e. they can deal with 128 programs.
Sampler directories easily contain 10,000 different patches. How
would you go about using program changes to switch between those?"

"It would be nice (forgive my naivete here) if there was a feature where
there was a mapping thing, where you could have a list of 128 .exs files
that would respond to Program Changes, according to number. Stored in a
Logic Song, where each song would have a different map."

YES,Garth! 

That's exactly how i understood the EXS24 instrument / song file management 
should work. A palette of up to 128 different programs per song saved in the 
folder with a particular song. 

______________________________

"But maybe there is another mode of operating EXS that does this
differently, and thus solves the core problem which is how to use one
instance of EXS to play different sounds over a whole song without manually
changing the selected program."

I'm going to find that out. 

_______________________________

"What if you assign a "midi remote" key command equivalent for the key
commands of either select next/previous instrument. Then assembled the
various instruments you want to use on a per song basis in unique sampler
instruments folders stored in the same folder as each song. Then programmed
up those midi events on the EXS track. Would it change instruments for you
while playing?


Eli, that is an interesting idea... I like your thinking. But I can't believe there 
wouldn't be an easier and quicker way to accomplish this.

Thank you All for your time!

sincerely,

Josef.

From: ArtsGuildInc@...

>  In my estimation, this makes the EXS24 almost unuseable,
>or at least extremely cumbersome to use.   Automating spontaneous program
>changes for playback is part of the essence of what professional 
>sequencing is all
>about.   Anything less is kid stuff.

I have no problem with your wanting program changes, but isn't that 
kind of OTT? You can just use keyswitches or multiple EXS instruments 
on different tracks - you have 64 of them (plus TDM), after all - to 
do the same thing. As a matter of fact, you might even be able to use 
a Transformer object to convert program changes to keyswitch notes.

I personally haven't used a program change in decades, because I find 
them cumbersome, and I don't like to use them beyond the initial 
set-up for a sequence ("Send Used Instruments," or whatever it's 
called). So it's all a matter of the way you like to work, not kid 
stuff.

EXS has a very efficient streaming engine, and it works really well. 
If you want to see unusable, try pounding on some other Mac samplers 
the way you can with EXS.
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

On a fine day, 07-03-2004, Garth Hjelte wrote:

>At 06:16 PM 3/7/04 +0100, you wrote:
>>On a fine day, 07-03-2004, kecinzer wrote:
>>
>>  >Problem: I can't  get the program change working at all in the EXS24.
>>
>>This has been dealt with just a few days ago...  Midi program changes
>>have a range from 0-127.  I.e. they can deal with 128 programs.
>>Sampler directories easily contain 10,000 different patches.  How
>>would you go about using program changes to switch between those?
>
>It would be nice (forgive my naivete here) if there was a feature where
>there was a mapping thing, where you could have a list of 128 .exs files
>that would respond to Program Changes, according to number. Stored in a
>Logic Song, where each song would have a different map.

Agreed -- a custom 128-sound bank which responds to program changes 
would be nice.  But then, if I need another sound, I just open up a 
new EXS -- with 64 Audio Instruments I've never run out of 
instruments yet.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

On a fine day, 07-03-2004, Eli Krantzberg wrote:

>What if you assign a "midi remote" key command equivalent for the key
>commands of either select next/previous instrument. Then assembled the
>various instruments you want to use on a per song basis in unique sampler
>instruments folders stored in the same folder as each song. Then programmed
>up those midi events on the EXS track. Would it change instruments for you
>while playing?

Yes, this would work.  The drawback is obvious: if you have 
instrument-1 loaded, and now need instrument 8, you'd have to insert 
quite a few 'next instr' commands, with enough time between them to 
give the EXS time to respond & execute the command.  So if you need 
instrument 8 two seconds after you've played instrument 1, this won't 
work.

-- 
Hendrik Jan Veenstra   h @ k n o w a r e . n l
Omega Art: http://www.omega-art.com/

Message posted by Allan Rowe <allan@...>:

"It would be nice (forgive my naivete here) if there was a feature where there was a mapping thing, where you could have a list of 128 .exs files that would respond to Program Changes, according to number. Stored in a Logic Song, where each song would have a different map. "

This would be a feature I would definitely use. Especially in a live situation.

I usually work solo or in a duo so I need backing vox but have to do with a harmoniser which isn't ideal, they sound so electronic.

I use a Fantom X8 and use the song list function to switch between songs on the fly. You never know what song will be needed next, I never use set lists.

I would like to use main stage and set up a ESX instrument with the recorded backing vocal tracks assigned to a different ESX Program and the X8 would tell the ESX which patch to load. Currently all the program change does to the ESX is step incrementally up or down, no good to me if the song I need is 30 higher than the one just played.

Alternatively It would be nice if logic had a play list function where I could lay down the audio tracks along with the midi sequence and use logic instead of the X8's sequencer. You're probably wondering why I don't just use backing tracks, I can't becuase most the songs change sounds on the keyboards I'm playing on the fly.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can achieve this?

On 20/10/2008, Allan Rowe <forums@...> wrote:

> Message posted by Allan Rowe <allan@...>:
>
>  "It would be nice (forgive my naivete here) if there was a feature where
> there was a mapping thing, where you could have a list of 128 .exs files
> that would respond to Program Changes, according to number. Stored in a
> Logic Song, where each song would have a different map. "
>
>
>  Does anyone have any ideas on how I can achieve this?

I've never really explored it, but can't you use channel strips for this?
-- 
with best wishes, John