EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

No problem.


> can I play it live (in my studio)
> and not be distracted by the latency???  Specific examples with the
> 2408 and G4 would be great...

--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>No problem.
>
>
>>  can I play it live (in my studio)
>>  and not be distracted by the latency???  Specific examples with the
>  > 2408 and G4 would be great...

Yes - in ms if possible... with & without AMT... and with different 
settings (512, 1024 etc... samples per buffer) many thanks in advance

> Yes - in ms if possible... with & without AMT... and with different
> settings (512, 1024 etc... samples per buffer) many thanks in advance

Hard person to please. :-)

Buffer setting = ** ms
64 = 1.5 ms
128 = 3 ms
256 = 6 ms
512 = 12 ms
1024 = 23 ms
2056 = 46 ms
4096 = 92 ms
8192 = 186 ms

AMT is MIDI related and it not related to audio instrument latency:
audio instrument latency depends on the audio hardware and its drivers.
Sometimes you can't use the fastest setting of your hardware because
your system isn't fast enough, but that's about it.

Ciao,
Joeri
--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> These are the MOTU 2408 / G4 settings? I want to make sure that I'm
> following  the thread correctly and that these aren't Hammerfall
> numbers

These are the Hammerfall numbers, but if I understand correctly, these
buffer settings are the amount of samples, so it does NOT matter what
device they're for. The only difference is that MAYBE the 2408 doesn't
go this low (to 64 eg), but I think it does. (correct me if I'm wrong!)

... and by the way, even a setting of 3 ms is not noticable! 6 ms can be
noticed in drum rolls, but not during normal play. 12 ms is still
acceptable for "live" playing, except for percussion where I prefer 6
ms.

I hope this helps.

Bye,
Joeri
--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

These are the MOTU 2408 / G4 settings? I want to make sure that I'm 
following  the thread correctly and that these aren't Hammerfall 
numbers

>Joeri Vadneisbilk wrote:

(snip)......

>
>Buffer setting = ** ms
>64 = 1.5 ms
>128 = 3 ms
>256 = 6 ms
>512 = 12 ms
>1024 = 23 ms
>2056 = 46 ms
>4096 = 92 ms
>8192 = 186 ms
>
.................... (SNIP)

Thanks for dealing with the redundancy!

Regards,
Dicky Spears

>Buffer setting = ** ms
>64 = 1.5 ms
>128 = 3 ms
>256 = 6 ms
>512 = 12 ms
>1024 = 23 ms
>2056 = 46 ms
>4096 = 92 ms
>8192 = 186 ms

thank you!!

>AMT is MIDI related and it not related to audio instrument latency:

But you do use MIDI to _play_ the audio instrument... and I notice 
that with AMT enabled I do have a very ugly latency problem when 
playing. Maybe it only appears with MIDI out, in that case you're 
right, it won't affect audio instruments.

>These are the Hammerfall numbers, but if I understand correctly, these
>buffer settings are the amount of samples, so it does NOT matter what
>device they're for. The only difference is that MAYBE the 2408 doesn't
>go this low (to 64 eg), but I think it does. (correct me if I'm wrong!)

It goes only down to 128 samples, and sometimes I get pops and clicks 
even with setting 256. So it seems that with a G4/400/320/2408MkII 
the best latency you can expect is 6 to 12 ms :-((

Which brings me back to my suggestion : will the EXS be able someday 
not only to import from, but also export to my trustworthy and 
latency-free (well almost) S3000 XL ?

I'm having some difficulty following this thread. Are we talking about  the 
buffer located in the Audio Drivers ASIO section? Help me out...

One thing I did recently that helped dramatically with latency in and out, 
was to adjust the EXS sampler preferences:
Create an instance of the EXS>Click on the Edit menu>In the Sampler Map 
Screen, click Edit/Preferences>Switch to 32 bit float. It uses twice as much 
RAM to drive the sampler, but it really makes a difference. This is not the 
default so it must be set. If you don't have enough RAM, consider getting 
some. I run Logic with a 200MB partition and the response-timing feel is 
excellent (a fast processor helps too).

> >Buffer setting = ** ms
> >64 = 1.5 ms
> >128 = 3 ms
> >256 = 6 ms
> >512 = 12 ms
> >1024 = 23 ms
> >2056 = 46 ms
> >4096 = 92 ms
> >8192 = 186 ms
>
>thank you!!
>
> >AMT is MIDI related and it not related to audio instrument latency:
>
>But you do use MIDI to _play_ the audio instrument... and I notice
>that with AMT enabled I do have a very ugly latency problem when
>playing. Maybe it only appears with MIDI out, in that case you're
>right, it won't affect audio instruments.
>
> >These are the Hammerfall numbers, but if I understand correctly, these
> >buffer settings are the amount of samples, so it does NOT matter what
> >device they're for. The only difference is that MAYBE the 2408 doesn't
> >go this low (to 64 eg), but I think it does. (correct me if I'm wrong!)
>
>It goes only down to 128 samples, and sometimes I get pops and clicks
>even with setting 256. So it seems that with a G4/400/320/2408MkII
>the best latency you can expect is 6 to 12 ms :-((
>
>Which brings me back to my suggestion : will the EXS be able someday
>not only to import from, but also export to my trustworthy and
>latency-free (well almost) S3000 XL ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>exs-users-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.

> But you do use MIDI to _play_ the audio instrument... and I notice
> that with AMT enabled I do have a very ugly latency problem when
> playing.

??? You mean midi is slower with AMT activated? To be honest, I think
AMT only works in one direction -> towards midi out and not midi in...
not sure though.
So, when you play a synth/sampler (real one, no software) with AMT
enabled, it's not "realtime"?

> Maybe it only appears with MIDI out, in that case you're
> right, it won't affect audio instruments.

AMT has no effect on audio instruments, and midi should be fast enough
so you don't notice it when playing to midi in!

> It goes only down to 128 samples, and sometimes I get pops and clicks
> even with setting 256. So it seems that with a G4/400/320/2408MkII
> the best latency you can expect is 6 to 12 ms :-((

Well, 6 ms and 12 ms is still very nice. I also set my Hammerfall to
12ms during mixdown to make sure there are no clicks etc.

> Which brings me back to my suggestion : will the EXS be able someday
> not only to import from, but also export to my trustworthy and
> latency-free (well almost) S3000 XL ?

I'm not sure about this... personally I don't think they'll add that
functionality. There's a software package by www.chickensys.com (or
something like that), that does something similar. Maybe that does what
you need.

> I'm having some difficulty following this thread. Are we talking about
> the
> buffer located in the Audio Drivers ASIO section? Help me out...
>
Yes: correct: the buffers of the ASIO drivers. MME drivers are usually
muuuuch slower.

> ...Edit/Preferences>Switch to 32 bit float...
>
Didn't know that! Thanks for the tip! I'll check it out at once!

Ciao,
Joeri

--
Joeri Vankeirsbilck
joeri@...

Belway Productions      -     http://www.belway.com
List-admin   Logic-users/SoundD*ver-users/Logic-TDM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This user seems to be saying that the EXS24 is un-playable on a 
G4/400/320/2408MkII with a buffer setting of 512 or above, and that 
lower than that there are clicks and pops.  This worries, concerns 
and disturbs me quite a bit because I just spent 3500 dollars so that 
I could have this system and am now wondering if I should have waited 
another year. 

--- In exs-users@egroups.com, Vincent Kenis <vincent.k@c...> wrote:
> It goes only down to 128 samples, and sometimes I get pops and 
clicks 
> even with setting 256. So it seems that with a G4/400/320/2408MkII 
> the best latency you can expect is 6 to 12 ms :-((
> 
> Which brings me back to my suggestion : will the EXS be able 
someday 
> not only to import from, but also export to my trustworthy and 
> latency-free (well almost) S3000 XL ?

For the record, I can play mine just fine without changing the buffer. I use 
a PowerBookG3 400MHz system with the Digigram VX Pocket I/O. I am using the 
Digigram ASIO driver and the sampler is set to the 32 floating point setting 
I referred to before. I have 200MB of RAM dedicated to Logic.

So, for the user that just spent $3500 on a new system, if you spent your 
money well, I wouldn't worry.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.

el 29/8/00 19:47, Josh Brown en onelist@... escribió:

> This user seems to be saying that the EXS24 is un-playable on a
> G4/400/320/2408MkII with a buffer setting of 512 or above, and that
> lower than that there are clicks and pops.  This worries, concerns
> and disturbs me quite a bit because I just spent 3500 dollars so that
> I could have this system and am now wondering if I should have waited
> another year. 
G4/400/256/Digi001 over here, working at 128 samples (except when mixing
down MANY tracks). EXS24 does work fine, although if I load  many instances
of it, it chokes Logic's User Interface quite a bit.

Yours,

Vicente

Can you use that digi001 without OMS???


--- In exs-users@egroups.com, Vicente Prats Fraser 
<vpratsfraser@m...> wrote:
> el 29/8/00 19:47, Josh Brown en onelist@u... escribió:
> 
> > This user seems to be saying that the EXS24 is un-playable on a
> > G4/400/320/2408MkII with a buffer setting of 512 or above, and 
that
> > lower than that there are clicks and pops.  This worries, concerns
> > and disturbs me quite a bit because I just spent 3500 dollars so 
that
> > I could have this system and am now wondering if I should have 
waited
> > another year. 
> G4/400/256/Digi001 over here, working at 128 samples (except when 
mixing
> down MANY tracks). EXS24 does work fine, although if I load  many 
instances

> of it, it chokes Logic's User Interface quite a bit.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Vicente

I mistakenly sent that post to this list, whoops

> Can you use that digi001 without OMS???


Yes, I don't have OMS installed at all.

Vicente

--- In exs-users@egroups.com, Vicente Prats Fraser 
<vpratsfraser@m...> wrote:
> 
> > Can you use that digi001 without OMS???
> 
> 
> Yes, I don't have OMS installed at all.
> 
> Vicente

So from what I gather, it's integration with Logic is tighter (less 
latency) than the 2408.  Possibly owing to the superiority of Direct 
I/O to ASIO???  What driver does this "Hammerfall" system use?  
Should I look at this system as a latency reducing possibility as 
well???

On the Digi001, can the S/PDIF I/O be used as an effects send/return 
to a Lexicon Reverb with S/PDIF I/O that I have???  Could this reverb 
then be accessed from within Logic digitally???

> So from what I gather, it's integration with Logic is tighter (less
> latency) than the 2408.  Possibly owing to the superiority of Direct
> I/O to ASIO???  

Well, you don't have to adjust anything other than the buffersize with
DirectI/O, ASIO is a bit more cubersome (less-integrated could be the
definition, yes).

> On the Digi001, can the S/PDIF I/O be used as an effects send/return
> to a Lexicon Reverb with S/PDIF I/O that I have???  Could this reverb
> then be accessed from within Logic digitally???

Theoretically yes. I don't use my SPDIF on the 001 so I can't speak from
experience, but I do see the SPDIF input in logic...

Take care,

Vicente

... this might be of interrest for some of you:

http://www.chickensys.com/translator/