EXS 24 Logic Sampler Users Group

Hi,

I am currently working on a Carrillion soundset (A Carillon is a
musical instrument consisting of tuned church bells) 
I have now started to work on the EXS version of the thing and came
across some problems that make it a bit difficult to create the
soundset in the intended way. 
I have now joined this group hoping to find some good advice from
seasoned EXS users. 
These are my questions:

(1) The sound of the bigger bells lasts for up to 30 seconds before it
dies away. It looks like the EXS does not support decay and release
stages longer than 10 seconds. Is there a way to get longer decays (up
to 20 or 30 seconds are required). I do not have a problem with the
version that uses the unlooped full length samples - these can easily
be played in one shot mode. I do however also plan to offer an 'eco'
version of the patch with  looped samples. Here I would need the EXS
envelope to shape the amplitude and the spectral decay.

(2) Each bell has its own decay time. The EXS however only offers one
single envelope setting for the entire instrument. Is there a way to
assign a dedicated envelope setting to each split?

(3) if there is no positive answer to my question (2): I assume the
mod matrix could be used to connect the key number to the
decay/release time using  'Key' as source and env release as
destination.
Unfortunately I only have an early version of the printed handbook and
it does not cover the MKII mod matrix. Q:Is there a resource available
where this topic is explained in greater detail? I would need to know to
which mathematical formula a given setting can be translated in order
to achieve an exactly defined setting. (or maybe somebody around here
has the answer? :-)
 
(4) Some important settings that are characteristic to the instrument
can not be made on the instrument level (envelope, filter). Instead
they are assigned on the plugin UI level and stored apart from the
instrument in a seperate plugin settings file. I am not familiar with
this approach (to say it mildly). After reading the EXS handbook I am
still wondering about the intended workflow. Q:In which form would I
have to supply my sound set to make sure that the instrument is
initially loaded together with the appropriate envelope and filter
settings?

Thanks for any help. 

Andreas Sumerauer

On Aug ,14, 2005, at 2:10 PM, Andreas wrote:

>  (4) Some important settings that are characteristic to the instrument
>  can not be made on the instrument level (envelope, filter). Instead
>  they are assigned on the plugin UI level and stored apart from the
>  instrument in a seperate plugin settings file. I am not familiar with
>  this approach (to say it mildly). After reading the EXS handbook I am
>  still wondering about the intended workflow. Q:In which form would I
>  have to supply my sound set to make sure that the instrument is
>  initially loaded together with the appropriate envelope and filter
>  settings?

There is a setting under the options menu on the front of the UI that 
allows you to "save settings to instrument". So that when you re-load 
it up, those front panel settings are stored as part of the instrument.



--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions

--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Eli Krantzberg <elik@v...> wrote:
> 
> There is a setting under the options menu on the front of the UI that 
> allows you to "save settings to instrument". So that when you re-load 
> it up, those front panel settings are stored as part of the instrument.
> 

Thanks very much. It works! :-)
I only hope the settings are preserved when the the instrument is
transferred to another computer.

regards

Andreas

On Aug ,14, 2005, at 5:09 PM, Andreas wrote:


>  Thanks very much. It works! :-)
>  I only hope the settings are preserved when the the instrument is
>  transferred to another computer.


They are. They are stored as part of the instrument definition, not in 
any sort of separate settings file.


--------
Eli Krantzberg
http://www.nightshiftorchestra.com
Almat Productions

> (1) The sound of the bigger bells lasts for up to 30 seconds before it
> dies away. It looks like the EXS does not support decay and release
> stages longer than 10 seconds. Is there a way to get longer decays (up
> to 20 or 30 seconds are required). I do not have a problem with the
> version that uses the unlooped full length samples - these can easily
> be played in one shot mode. I do however also plan to offer an 'eco'
> version of the patch with  looped samples. Here I would need the EXS
> envelope to shape the amplitude and the spectral decay.

Hm, I've never used anything with such a long decay. Perhaps the EXS isn't up to the task indeed.
No, I just tried... I could get a release time of around 20-25 seconds. But anything longer doesn't seem to be supported indeed.

>
> (2) Each bell has its own decay time. The EXS however only offers one
> single envelope setting for the entire instrument. Is there a way to
> assign a dedicated envelope setting to each split?

You need to route the samples to individual groups. On those you will find some ADSR offset controls. Btw, this even seems to be
able to add to the maximum release time of the main envelope, so we're probably getting closer to the 30 seconds your patches
require ;-)
Just made a test, main ADSR release full up, release in ADSR offset full up as well, the actual sound was ringing around 45 seconds.
Admittedly, it's a bit lame that you can't do this on the zones themselves. For anything percussive one might want to use groups for
other tasks than just adjusting ADSR offsets, so this should be a zone parameter as well...

> (3) if there is no positive answer to my question (2): I assume the
> mod matrix could be used to connect the key number to the
> decay/release time using  'Key' as source and env release as
> destination.
> Unfortunately I only have an early version of the printed handbook and
> it does not cover the MKII mod matrix. Q:Is there a resource available
> where this topic is explained in greater detail? I would need to know to
> which mathematical formula a given setting can be translated in order
> to achieve an exactly defined setting. (or maybe somebody around here
> has the answer? :-)

I don't think the "key" source is explained in greater detail anywhere.
But I don't think this would suit your needs all too well. It's just the usual thing to expect from a "key" modulation, assuming the
modulation amount is set to any positive value, higher keys will raise the release time while lower keys will lower it. If you'd be
using a negative modulation value, things will be upside down.
I think the group ADSR offset will be your ticket.

Btw (see my other post about the "maximum" setting), when using "maximum" as a source, "Amp 2 release" as a target with full
positive modulation amount, you should be able to raise the release time again. I just tried, and along with maximum general
release, maximum relase offset in the aforementioned group ADSR offsets, I'm now at a total release time of around a minute. Further
modulations of the same sort seem to even add more (yeah, tried again, it's now over a minute allready).

 > (4) Some important settings that are characteristic to the instrument
> can not be made on the instrument level (envelope, filter). Instead
> they are assigned on the plugin UI level and stored apart from the
> instrument in a seperate plugin settings file. I am not familiar with
> this approach (to say it mildly). After reading the EXS handbook I am
> still wondering about the intended workflow. Q:In which form would I
> have to supply my sound set to make sure that the instrument is
> initially loaded together with the appropriate envelope and filter
> settings?

This has allready been covered by Eli, but, just to confirm things, they can be written to the instrument file via "options > save
settings to instrument".

Regards,
Sascha

> --- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, Eli Krantzberg <elik@v...> wrote:
> > 
> > There is a setting under the options menu on the front of the UI
that 
> > allows you to "save settings to instrument". So that when you
re-load 
> > it up, those front panel settings are stored as part of the
instrument.


--- In exs-users@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas" <ansum@o...> wrote:
> 
> Thanks very much. It works! :-)
> I only hope the settings are preserved when the the instrument is
> transferred to another computer.



Hi,

Thanks to everybody who tried to be helpful with my Questions. 
I have learned a lot about the EXS (I have actually been using it for
several years but until now mostly as a sample player)

I have been able to incorporate much of the advice I found here into
my current project. Please have a look at the results: 
http://www.soundbytes.de/carillon/en/downloads.html

regards

Andreas